Board 8 > Do you agree with private companies sanctioning Russia?

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Raka_Putra 03/09/22 4:40:02 AM #1:	Do you support such decision? Yes No Undecided Crazyisgood Do you support such decision? - Results (100 votes) Yes 72% (72 votes) 72 No 15% (15 votes) 15 Undecided 5% (5 votes) 5 Crazyisgood 8% (8 votes) 8 So around social media I've seen people express that they don't agree with private companies sanctioning Russia by, for example, stopping their service/sale/distribution there, because it affects the civilians as well and not just the Russian government/military. Personally, I think this approach is still acceptable because realistically it can be difficult to differentiate and stop the services just to Russian military/government, and that it's kind of putting pressure on the people so they in turn pressure the government to stop the aggression as well. --- "So much love in his words." - RIP Stephen Sondheim, 1930-2021 <cite>Raka_Putra posted [p:963291736] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote> Do you support such decision? Yes No Undecided Crazyisgood Vote View Results Do you support such decision? - Results (100 votes) Yes 72% (72 votes) 72 No 15% (15 votes) 15 Undecided 5% (5 votes) 5 Crazyisgood 8% (8 votes) 8 Show Voting Form So around social media I've seen people express that they don't agree with private companies sanctioning Russia by, for example, stopping their service/sale/distribution there, because it affects the civilians as well and not just the Russian government/military. Personally, I think this approach is still acceptable because realistically it can be difficult to differentiate and stop the services just to Russian military/government, and that it's kind of putting pressure on the people so they in turn pressure the government to stop the aggression as well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
firefdr 03/09/22 6:53:40 AM #2:	Raka_Putra posted... because it affects the civilians as well that's the whole point <cite>firefdr posted [p:963292913] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Raka_Putra posted... </cite> <quote>because it affects the civilians as well</quote>that's the whole point </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Samurai7 03/09/22 7:47:25 AM #3:	The less a governments immoral actions affect their own citizens, the less those citizens will demand better from those governments --- Conformity and rebellion...both ways are simple-minded--they are only for people who cannot cope with contradiction and ambiguity. <cite>Samurai7 posted [p:963293536] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>The less a governments immoral actions affect their own citizens, the less those citizens will demand better from those governments </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 03/09/22 7:48:59 AM #4:	Something something the free market decides --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:963293561] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Something something the free market decides </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 03/09/22 7:49:14 AM #5:	Samurai7 posted... The less a governments immoral actions affect their own citizens, the less those citizens will demand better from those governments maybe one day we can sanction the US and the citizens will start to demand better too --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:963293565] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Samurai7 posted... </cite> <quote>The less a governments immoral actions affect their own citizens, the less those citizens will demand better from those governments</quote> maybe one day we can sanction the US and the citizens will start to demand better too </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 03/09/22 7:50:08 AM #6:	Unironically yes steiner --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:963293575] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Unironically yes steiner </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leafeon13N 03/09/22 7:51:02 AM #7:	Literally the word private. <cite>Leafeon13N posted [p:963293583] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Literally the word private. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 03/09/22 8:50:51 AM #8:	FFDragon posted... Unironically yes steiner Leafeon13N posted... Literally the word private. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:963294474] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>FFDragon posted... </cite> <quote>Unironically yes steiner</quote> Leafeon13N posted... </cite> <quote>Literally the word private.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 03/09/22 8:58:55 AM #9:	wait i wasn't being ironic either --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:963294612] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>wait i wasn't being ironic either </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 03/09/22 9:09:15 AM #10:	Yes, though it has to be somewhat on a case-by-case basis, those saying the citizens will demand better! are neglecting the fact that authoritarian regimes do not care what the general population thinks. Weve already seen huge protests in Russia that are being cracked down on. Russia is an oligarchy with a dictator. If you want change you ultimately need to target them. So it is important you target the sanctions correctly. --- I just decided to change this sig. Blaaaaaaargh azuarc <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:963294794] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Yes, though it has to be somewhat on a case-by-case basis, those saying the citizens will demand better! are neglecting the fact that authoritarian regimes do not care what the general population thinks. Weve already seen huge protests in Russia that are being cracked down on. Russia is an oligarchy with a dictator. If you want change you ultimately need to target them. So it is important you target the sanctions correctly. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 03/09/22 9:51:27 AM #11:	I think most of it is virtue signaling, like McDonalds and Starbucks pulling out of Russia while having locations at literally Gitmo, lol. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:963295670] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>I think most of it is virtue signaling, like McDonalds and Starbucks pulling out of Russia while having locations at literally Gitmo, lol. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 03/09/22 10:13:12 AM #12:	You know what they call a quarter pounder in Cuba? Waterboard with cheese --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:963296147] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>You know what they call a quarter pounder in Cuba? Waterboard with cheese </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GuessMyUserName 03/09/22 10:46:24 AM #13:	FFDragon posted... Waterboard with cheese like a fondue? --- I request affiliated many pipes. Been a bad girl, I know I am. And I'm so hot, I need a fan. I don't want a boy, I need a man. <cite>GuessMyUserName posted [p:963296940] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>FFDragon posted... </cite> <quote>Waterboard with cheese</quote>like a fondue? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 03/09/22 12:17:04 PM #14:	Yes exactly --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:963299215] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Yes exactly </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Samurai7 03/09/22 1:03:43 PM #15:	Lightning Strikes posted... Yes, though it has to be somewhat on a case-by-case basis, those saying the citizens will demand better! are neglecting the fact that authoritarian regimes do not care what the general population thinks. Weve already seen huge protests in Russia that are being cracked down on. Russia is an oligarchy with a dictator. If you want change you ultimately need to target them. So it is important you target the sanctions correctly. I mean... violent revolution by citizens is pretty much the only way authoritarian regimes end with an actual non puppet government --- Conformity and rebellion...both ways are simple-minded--they are only for people who cannot cope with contradiction and ambiguity. <cite>Samurai7 posted [p:963300492] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Lightning Strikes posted... </cite> <quote>Yes, though it has to be somewhat on a case-by-case basis, those saying the citizens will demand better! are neglecting the fact that authoritarian regimes do not care what the general population thinks. Weve already seen huge protests in Russia that are being cracked down on. Russia is an oligarchy with a dictator. If you want change you ultimately need to target them. So it is important you target the sanctions correctly.</quote> I mean... violent revolution by citizens is pretty much the only way authoritarian regimes end with an actual non puppet government </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PrinceReva 03/09/22 2:11:40 PM #16:	Steiner posted... maybe one day we can sanction the US and the citizens will start to demand better too General strike when? --- slips away unnoticed <cite>PrinceReva posted [p:963302438] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Steiner posted... </cite> <quote>maybe one day we can sanction the US and the citizens will start to demand better too</quote> General strike when? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 03/09/22 3:52:25 PM #17:	Undecided but leaning towards "no" because I honestly don't see what this accomplishes other than PR for the companies involved. Certainly not nearly as effective as targeting specific Russian officials and institutions. To those saying it puts pressure on citizens: how? What is the proposed mechanism here? Normal protesting seems laughable and as mentioned the only ways I see change happening is through a violent revolution or organized labor strike. Sanctions that primarily affect ordinary Russian citizens seem blatantly counterproductive to both of those goals, plus you run the risk of displacing animosity from the Russian government to these companies. We actually saw this play out in miniature with the Sims 4 gay wedding drama that happened right before this, which was a total political mess that didn't accomplish much of anything. And now EA is back to not selling in Russia for entirely different reasons, which is very ironic. --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:963305350] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Undecided but leaning towards "no" because I honestly don't see what this accomplishes other than PR for the companies involved. Certainly not nearly as effective as targeting specific Russian officials and institutions. To those saying it puts pressure on citizens: how? What is the proposed mechanism here? Normal protesting seems laughable and as mentioned the only ways I see change happening is through a violent revolution or organized labor strike. Sanctions that primarily affect ordinary Russian citizens seem blatantly counterproductive to both of those goals, plus you run the risk of displacing animosity from the Russian government to these companies. We actually saw this play out in miniature with the Sims 4 gay wedding drama that happened right before this, which was a total political mess that didn't accomplish much of anything. And now EA is back to not selling in Russia for entirely different reasons, which is very ironic. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leafeon13N 03/09/22 4:17:18 PM #18:	Some people are really detached from how society functions. <cite>Leafeon13N posted [p:963306120] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Some people are really detached from how society functions. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 03/09/22 4:23:49 PM #19:	Samurai7 posted... I mean... violent revolution by citizens is pretty much the only way authoritarian regimes end with an actual non puppet government I mean its usually the military and other members of the government that does it --- I just decided to change this sig. Blaaaaaaargh azuarc <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:963306323] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Samurai7 posted... </cite> <quote>I mean... violent revolution by citizens is pretty much the only way authoritarian regimes end with an actual non puppet government</quote> I mean its usually the military and other members of the government that does it </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 03/09/22 4:24:50 PM #20:	I mean if the answer is legitimately "the goal is to completely and indescriminately cripple Russia's economy" that's fine, it's just that citizens demanding better doesn't have much to do with that at all! --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:963306355] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>I mean if the answer is legitimately "the goal is to completely and indescriminately cripple Russia's economy" that's fine, it's just that citizens demanding better doesn't have much to do with that at all! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChichiriMuyo 03/09/22 4:31:51 PM #21:	They are private companies. If they do it by their own choice that's their choice. --- "If you ever feel good about yourself, just look on the Internet." - Ryan Reynolds <cite>ChichiriMuyo posted [p:963306547] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>They are private companies. If they do it by their own choice that's their choice. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leafeon13N 03/09/22 4:38:29 PM #22:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... cripple Russia's economy" that's fine, it's just that citizens demanding better doesn't have much to do with that at all! I want to bang my head against a wall. <cite>Leafeon13N posted [p:963306771] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted... </cite> <quote>cripple Russia's economy" that's fine, it's just that citizens demanding better doesn't have much to do with that at all!</quote>I want to bang my head against a wall. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 03/09/22 4:56:24 PM #23:	No because of two reasons 1.You punish the citizens. I assume most of them don't want this war and I don't think it's fair to punish them. If you somehow hope this will make them rebel, you are dead wrong. Putin doesn't give a shit and anyone standing against him will get arrested or worse 2.They are private companies and can do the fuck they want. If they decide to sanction Russia, that's fine. But if they decide they don't want to - that's also fine. Making a Internet shitstorm and calling for boycott is lame --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:963307323] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>No because of two reasons 1.You punish the citizens. I assume most of them don't want this war and I don't think it's fair to punish them. If you somehow hope this will make them rebel, you are dead wrong. Putin doesn't give a shit and anyone standing against him will get arrested or worse 2.They are private companies and can do the fuck they want. If they decide to sanction Russia, that's fine. But if they decide they don't want to - that's also fine. Making a Internet shitstorm and calling for boycott is lame </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 03/09/22 5:19:02 PM #25:	Leafeon13N posted... I want to bang my head against a wall. I was literally asking I can understand the reasoning, not so you can passive-aggressively give yourself a concussion. Lightning Strikes has presented some reasonable takes about the actual mechanics at play here, it's not a ridiculous ask! --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:963308201] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Leafeon13N posted... </cite> <quote>I want to bang my head against a wall.</quote> I was literally asking I can understand the reasoning, not so you can passive-aggressively give yourself a concussion. Lightning Strikes has presented some reasonable takes about the actual mechanics at play here, it's not a ridiculous ask! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 03/09/22 7:29:13 PM #26:	Leafeon13N posted... Some people are really detached from how society functions. Do you have a strong understanding of how Russian society functions that you want to share with the class? --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:963312452] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Leafeon13N posted... </cite> <quote>Some people are really detached from how society functions.</quote> Do you have a strong understanding of how Russian society functions that you want to share with the class? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 03/10/22 6:53:37 AM #27:	ChaosTonyV4 posted... Do you have a strong understanding of how Russian society functions that you want to share with the class? no just wants to post vaguely condescendingly --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:963325522] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted... </cite> <quote>Do you have a strong understanding of how Russian society functions that you want to share with the class?</quote> no just wants to post vaguely condescendingly </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
masterplum 03/10/22 7:48:49 AM #28:	Some of you guys thinking the French Revolution would have still happened if the peasants werent starving to death. Actually hurting the civilian population is the entire point. --- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg <cite>masterplum posted [p:963326224] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Some of you guys thinking the French Revolution would have still happened if the peasants werent starving to death. Actually hurting the civilian population is the entire point. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
masterplum 03/10/22 7:50:49 AM #29:	Leafeon13N posted... I want to bang my head against a wall. And I almost never agree with Red, but this is spot on I want to hurt Russia's economy I dont want to hurt civilians Were you guys born in 2009? Thats not how this works --- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg <cite>masterplum posted [p:963326254] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Leafeon13N posted... </cite> <quote>I want to bang my head against a wall.</quote> And I almost never agree with Red, but this is spot on I want to hurt Russia's economyI dont want to hurt civilians Were you guys born in 2009? Thats not how this works </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 03/10/22 8:47:28 AM #30:	So the thinking is literally that if foreign governments and companies hurt Russian civilians, they will hate their own government more than those foreign actors? --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:963327206] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>So the thinking is literally that if foreign governments and companies hurt Russian civilians, they will hate their own government more than those foreign actors? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DeepsPraw 03/10/22 8:49:54 AM #31:	Yeah I don't get it either. The prevailing thinking seems to be that if you collapse the current Russian government, the replacement is going to suddenly love the US and NATO for some reason --- pepsi for tv-game <cite>DeepsPraw posted [p:963327248] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>Yeah I don't get it either. The prevailing thinking seems to be that if you collapse the current Russian government, the replacement is going to suddenly love the US and NATO for some reason </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 03/10/22 8:51:51 AM #32:	I think it's more tying in the collapse to the fact that putin is being a dick, and if they want the no fry zone lifted they need to be proactive in removing him and at least going back to pretending they can co-exist with the rest of the world. --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:963327290] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>I think it's more tying in the collapse to the fact that putin is being a dick, and if they want the no fry zone lifted they need to be proactive in removing him and at least going back to pretending they can co-exist with the rest of the world. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
masterplum 03/10/22 9:24:41 AM #33:	DeepsPraw posted... Yeah I don't get it either. The prevailing thinking seems to be that if you collapse the current Russian government, the replacement is going to suddenly love the US and NATO for some reason No, the replacement will know that if they invade another country they will also be deposed --- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg <cite>masterplum posted [p:963327919] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>DeepsPraw posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah I don't get it either. The prevailing thinking seems to be that if you collapse the current Russian government, the replacement is going to suddenly love the US and NATO for some reason</quote> No, the replacement will know that if they invade another country they will also be deposed </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AxemRedRanger 03/10/22 10:46:32 AM #34:	masterplum posted... And I almost never agree with Red, but this is spot on 1. I want to hurt Russia's economy 2. I dont want to hurt civilians Were you guys born in 2009? Thats not how this works Maybe but you're kinda risking coming off like you were born in 1809 yourself. People overthrowing the government because they're desperate and can't feed their families is one thing. Doing it because they can't buy an iphone anymore is a much bigger ask. Widespread sanctions might be able to cripple, say, Japan or the United Kingdom, which are not even close to food self-sufficient. Modern Russia though? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-02-28/russia-can-turn-food-into-a-weapon-in-future-crises-like-ukraine-invasion Doesn't look like the Russian people will likely be starving any time soon. And they have oil and gas to spare too. Voted yes because companies cutting off additional chemicals, equipment, and vehicles Russia imports may at least hobble their war effort a bit and domestic unpopularity is never good for a regime but I would not be hopeful about a revolution caused by civilian deprivation. --- [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] [NO Azuarc NO PEACE] <cite>AxemRedRanger posted [p:963329681] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>masterplum posted... </cite> <quote>And I almost never agree with Red, but this is spot on 1. I want to hurt Russia's economy 2. I dont want to hurt civilians Were you guys born in 2009? Thats not how this works</quote>Maybe but you're kinda risking coming off like you were born in 1809 yourself. People overthrowing the government because they're desperate and can't feed their families is one thing. Doing it because they can't buy an iphone anymore is a much bigger ask. Widespread sanctions might be able to cripple, say, Japan or the United Kingdom, which are not even close to food self-sufficient. Modern Russia though? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-02-28/russia-can-turn-food-into-a-weapon-in-future-crises-like-ukraine-invasion Doesn't look like the Russian people will likely be starving any time soon. And they have oil and gas to spare too. Voted yes because companies cutting off additional chemicals, equipment, and vehicles Russia imports may at least hobble their war effort a bit and domestic unpopularity is never good for a regime but I would not be hopeful about a revolution caused by civilian deprivation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 03/10/22 7:11:37 PM #35:	masterplum posted... No, the replacement will know that if they invade another country they will also be deposed Another white country --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:963343631] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>masterplum posted... </cite> <quote>No, the replacement will know that if they invade another country they will also be deposed</quote> Another white country </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 03/10/22 8:31:20 PM #36:	The notion that we can discourage war by excluding aggressors from the global economy is an attractive one. I don't know if I have much faith that it'll work, but I do hope enough corporations refuse to do business with/in Russia that we can answer the question more conclusively. With that said, even in a best-case scenario where Russia's invasion fails due to the corporate backlash, I have to say that I'm not thrilled about a world in which corporations are becoming even more influential. --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:963345671] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>The notion that we can discourage war by excluding aggressors from the global economy is an attractive one. I don't know if I have much faith that it'll work, but I do hope enough corporations refuse to do business with/in Russia that we can answer the question more conclusively. With that said, even in a best-case scenario where Russia's invasion fails due to the corporate backlash, I have to say that I'm not thrilled about a world in which corporations are becoming even more influential.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 03/10/22 10:43:06 PM #37:	I think there's preventative value in these sanctions that people here aren't touching on. Like, China is legitimately less likely to fuck with Taiwan after witnessing an economic response that's been this devastating to Russia. --- It's Reyn Time. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:963348747] in Do you agr... [t:79934660]...</cite> <quote>I think there's preventative value in these sanctions that people here aren't touching on. Like, China is legitimately less likely to fuck with Taiwan after witnessing an economic response that's been this devastating to Russia. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Do you agree with private companies sanctioning Russia? (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Do you agree with private companies sanctioning Russia?