Current Events > Lovecraft was pretty racist, yeah?

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DeadBankerDream
01/14/22 6:22:53 PM
#1:


Came across a short poem of his that I assume is kind of well known and I'm not sure I'd even be allowed to make reference to the title here.

Jesus ._.

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ElatedVenusaur
01/14/22 6:25:38 PM
#2:


Yes, he was extremely goddamned racist to the point even many of his contemporaries thought he was pretty racist. Which is unfortunate, because he was a really talented writer.

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Zikten
01/14/22 6:26:04 PM
#3:


Just look up his cat's name
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SweetieBeIle462
01/14/22 6:26:36 PM
#4:


Yes unfortunately, don't look up his what his cat's name is.

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pegusus123456
01/14/22 6:27:34 PM
#5:


There's a short story called The Rats In the Walls where a character has a cat named N-Word Man. It was named after Lovecraft's own cat.

And even without being that blatant, it's a theme in a lot of his works.

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DeadBankerDream
01/14/22 6:28:58 PM
#6:


pegusus123456 posted...
And even without being that blatant, it's a theme in a lot of his works.
Never actually read any of it, but I have At the Mountains of Madness lying around somewhere. Is that of racist undertones too?

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Heartomaton
01/14/22 6:29:27 PM
#7:


One of his stories about the corpse of the main character's relative is all the racism overtones I'm familiar with firsthand, but I do know about all the other racist shit.

It sucks, because he's one of the most iconic and prolific horror writers of all time, but then again, a lot of history's most famous artists were awful people.

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Vicious_Dios
01/14/22 6:29:59 PM
#8:


That's why I can easily separate the artist from their works, especially if some of their character slips in there every now and then.

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DeadBankerDream
01/14/22 6:34:46 PM
#9:


Vicious_Dios posted...
That's why I can easily separate the artist from their works, especially if some of their character slips in there every now and then.
This is a nice idea when it's not a blatant racist claiming he's separating the racist author from the work.

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K181
01/14/22 6:36:32 PM
#10:


Extremely

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Tyranthraxus
01/14/22 6:37:46 PM
#11:


Vicious_Dios posted...
That's why I can easily separate the artist from their works, especially if some of their character slips in there every now and then.

Okay I've successfully separated Lovecraft from his poem "On the creation of N-words"

Now what do I do?

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GregShmedley
01/14/22 6:37:56 PM
#12:


DeadBankerDream posted...
This is a nice idea when it's not a blatant racist claiming he's separating the racist author from the work.

Lmao you read my mind

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DeadBankerDream
01/14/22 6:38:45 PM
#13:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Okay I've successfully separated Lovecraft from his poem "[blank"

Hey, that's the poem I came across today!

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dolomedes
01/14/22 6:42:21 PM
#14:


racist enough to taint his legacy. goddamn shame
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DrizztLink
01/14/22 6:44:55 PM
#15:


DeadBankerDream posted...
Hey, that's the poem I came across today!
We have separated the art from the artist and found out that both were racist.

Who knew.

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dolomedes
01/14/22 6:47:37 PM
#16:


DrizztLink posted...
We have separated the art from the artist and found out that both were racist.

Who knew.
lmao yeah

i hope he's rolling in his grave enough to burn his corpse up abt a show w his name in it having a black cast
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Zeeak4444
01/14/22 7:00:09 PM
#17:


dolomedes posted...
lmao yeah

i hope he's rolling in his grave enough to burn his corpse up abt a show w his name in it having a black cast

that was a damn good show too.

hoping they do an anthology series with it or something.

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Tyranthraxus
01/14/22 7:09:52 PM
#18:


dolomedes posted...
lmao yeah

i hope he's rolling in his grave enough to burn his corpse up abt a show w his name in it having a black cast

The show name is a double entendre it was picked to mean racism as well.

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Ozarhok
01/14/22 7:15:58 PM
#19:


Who cares

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ElatedVenusaur
01/14/22 7:18:01 PM
#20:


DeadBankerDream posted...
Never actually read any of it, but I have At the Mountains of Madness lying around somewhere. Is that of racist undertones too?
Yes, which is unfortunate, because it might just be my favorite Lovecraft story. The racism isn't as overt as in other pieces, but it's there. Can't explain it without spoiling the entire story though.

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armandro
01/14/22 7:18:22 PM
#21:


well he lived in a society

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DeadBankerDream
01/14/22 7:18:26 PM
#22:


Ozarhok posted...
Who cares
Perfect post to signature ratio.

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dolomedes
01/14/22 7:21:41 PM
#23:


Tyranthraxus posted...
The show name is a double entendre it was picked to mean racism as well.
that's probably obvious but I've never watched it, maybe I should
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googs19
01/14/22 7:22:29 PM
#24:


The good thing about Lovecraft is that since he is dead you can read his works without it directly benefiting a racist.
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Nemu
01/14/22 7:25:17 PM
#25:


While he's a few stages beyond the "product of his time" descriptor, it should hardly be surprising that creators back then may have held some views seen as really shitty today. If we live another 100 years, you can be sure the people of the future will be judging our sensibilities in some regard as well.
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Cookie Bag
01/14/22 7:29:51 PM
#26:


Vicious_Dios posted...
That's why I can easily separate the artist from their works, especially if some of their character slips in there every now and then.
If it was anyone else saying this i'd agree but its your clown ass saying it lmao fuck off

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Hornswoggled
01/14/22 7:31:24 PM
#27:


H.P. Lovecraft was an unhappy man, riddled with mental illness, and he died penniless.

Because of this, I see no need to constantly be harping on about his racism. He suffered enough.
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Kim_Seong-a
01/14/22 7:31:40 PM
#28:


ElatedVenusaur posted...
Which is unfortunate, because he was a really talented writer.

I feel like a lot of his works are a direct result of his racism and general mental state. IIRC he was a barely functional shut-in that at one point relied on receiving money from his ex-wife just to pay the rent.

Even if you try to separate the racist themes from his works, at best you've got these weird, anxious fantasies created by someone deathly afraid of anything outside his safe little bubble, or that he doesn't immediately understand.

If he was alive today, he'd fit right in with certain crowds on CE. >_>

All that said, Shadow Over Innsmouth da GOAT

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Ivynn
01/14/22 7:31:44 PM
#29:


He got depressed when he found out he was part Welsh.

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K181
01/14/22 7:33:09 PM
#30:


Hornswoggled posted...
H.P. Lovecraft was an unhappy man, riddled with mental illness, and he died penniless.

Because of this, I see no need to constantly be harping on about his racism. He suffered enough.

Good news, people being critical of him isn't causing him to suffer further. On account of being a corpse with no feelings.

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WorsCaseOntario
01/14/22 7:33:31 PM
#31:


He was a weird guy for sure

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Vicious_Dios
01/14/22 7:35:55 PM
#32:


These people are way too mad over such an innocuous comment I've made.


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omega cookie
01/14/22 8:30:33 PM
#33:


He has a story where the main character finds out he's part black, lights himself on fire in the town square, and the townspeople stand around commending him for doing the right thing as he burns to death.

He actually might be more interesting than the Cthulhu Mythos, which he didn't even create anyways.

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MacadamianNut3
01/14/22 8:33:19 PM
#34:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIP0ECc0Xdg

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Ser_Jaker
01/14/22 8:39:17 PM
#35:


The thing with lovecraft's racism is that he didn't just hate black people. He also hated Indians, Germans, native Americans (I Think) and basically anyone who wasn't of anglo saxon descent.
I believe he also hated Jews until he married a Jewish woman and decided they were cool.
He was a very recluvise, strange, mental person.

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DespondentDeity
01/14/22 8:46:15 PM
#36:


I dont think his writing is very good, but they make delightful bedtime stories despite that.

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Tyranthraxus
01/14/22 8:47:09 PM
#37:


Ser_Jaker posted...
The thing with lovecraft's racism is that he didn't just hate black people. He also hated Indians, Germans, native Americans (I Think) and basically anyone who wasn't of anglo saxon descent.
I believe he also hated Jews until he married a Jewish woman and decided they were cool.
He was a very recluvise, strange, mental person.

Lovecraft got less racist closer to the end of his life. He later wrote that different races were equal but fundamentally incompatible where as earlier anyone not full Anglican was basically subhuman.

He also died kind of young. It's not clear by what might have happened if he lived longer. He had various positive things to say about Hitler but he died before the Holocaust took off. Lots of people who were neutral or favorable to Hitler in the 30s had a complete change of heart in the 40s.

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#38
Post #38 was unavailable or deleted.
GeorgeKostanza
01/15/22 1:13:26 AM
#39:


Vicious_Dios posted...
These people are way too mad over such an innocuous comment I've made.

Somebody will Knight them. Just you wait.

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What_
01/15/22 1:16:20 AM
#40:


Vicious_Dios posted...
These people are way too mad over such an innocuous comment I've made.
I notice you dont deny it
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Zeus
01/15/22 3:08:01 AM
#41:


He was probably average-racist for the time, which is strong-racist by today's standards.

ElatedVenusaur posted... Yes, he was extremely goddamned racist to the point even many of his contemporaries thought he was pretty racist. Which is unfortunate, because he was a really talented writer.

I'm not sure you can really separate his work from the themes in his work, which often revolved around xenophobia and the idea of the other. The kinda sub-issue is that his more blatant racism opens the rest of his work for interpretation along those lines.

omega cookie posted...
He actually might be more interesting than the Cthulhu Mythos, which he didn't even create anyways.

Oh lawdy


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GGuirao13
01/15/22 3:12:46 AM
#42:


Ser_Jaker posted...
I believe he also hated Jews until he married a Jewish woman and decided they were cool.

Don't be xeonphobic. Have sex with everyone!


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Heartomaton
01/15/22 3:14:23 AM
#43:


What_ posted...
I notice you dont deny it

He literally can't.

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008Zulu
01/15/22 3:17:25 AM
#44:


This is copied from his Wikipedia page; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft#Race

Race is the most controversial aspect of Lovecraft's legacy, expressed in many disparaging remarks against non-Anglo-Saxon races and cultures in his works. As he grew older, his original racial worldview became a classism or elitism which regarded the superior race to include all those self-ennobled through high culture. From the start, Lovecraft did not hold all white people in uniform high regard, but rather esteemed English people and those of English descent. In his early published essays, private letters and personal utterances, he argued for a strong color line to preserve race and culture. His arguments were supported using disparagements of various races in his journalism and letters, and allegorically in his fictional works that depict non-human races. This is evident in his portrayal of the Deep Ones in The Shadow over Innsmouth. Their interbreeding with humanity is framed as being a type of miscegenation that corrupts both the town of Innsmouth and the protagonist.
Initially, Lovecraft showed sympathy to minorities who adopted Western culture, even to the extent of marrying a Jewish woman he viewed as being "well assimilated". By the 1930s, Lovecraft's views on ethnicity and race had moderated. He supported ethnicities' preserving their native cultures; for example, he thought that "a real friend of civilisation wishes merely to make the Germans more German, the French more French, the Spaniards more Spanish, & so on". This represented a shift from his previous support for cultural assimilation. However, this did not represent a complete elimination of his racial prejudices. Scholars have argued that Lovecraft's racial attitudes were common in the society of his day, particularly in the New England in which he grew up.

He doesn't sound like "The KKK's Grand Wizard of the Year", but more like a product of his times and upbringing.

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DeadBankerDream
01/15/22 3:19:16 AM
#45:


Heartomaton posted...
He literally can't.
His reaction is so childish.

Vic Dio: *Says ironic thing about racism considering his posting history*

People who remember things that happened: Hey, that's ironic considering things you've said before

Vic Dio: ...Triggered, much?

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dj1200
01/15/22 3:22:48 AM
#46:


MacadamianNut3 posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIP0ECc0Xdg
i didn't get it

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Heartomaton
01/15/22 3:27:57 AM
#47:


DeadBankerDream posted...
His reaction is so childish.

Vic Dio: *Says ironic thing about racism considering his posting history*

People who remember things that happened: Hey, that's ironic considering things you've said before

Vic Dio: ...Triggered, much?

It's his modus operandi. Either a thinly-veiled sarcastic remark or drive-by unreservedly snide comment to provoke negative responses, and anyone who does so is "obviously" a crying baby.

Recently he has taken to going into any of my topics in particular that he sees and attempting to hurt me by commenting on the dismal state of my life at any opportunity. And personally, while I do find his irrational hate-boner for me to be flattering, I do think his dedication to it calls the state of his own life into question.

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omega cookie
01/15/22 4:28:36 PM
#48:


Zeus posted...
Oh lawdy
?

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brestugo
01/15/22 4:38:10 PM
#49:


Not simply by today's standards, Lovecraft was considered extremely racist for his time. Robert E. Howard (Conan) and others tried to get him to tone it down and tried to help him get published but he wouldn't change. He was basically broke when he died (ill health and mental illness didn't help either).

Shame because when he stuck to 'cosmic horror' - a genre he created - there's some good stuff there.

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Horrorbooksguy
01/15/22 4:39:59 PM
#50:


Yup. In fairness to him, he had a truly miserable life with racist parents, and he did seem to be improving somewhat towards the end. But yeah, racist af, way more than normal for the time. Though iirc, the infamously named cat was actually named by his parents, not him.
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