Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 39: Tears for Fears' The Hurting (+ Steely Dan results)

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CasanovaZelos
11/28/21 10:06:35 AM
#1:


What album should we cover for Jesse_Custer's week?



Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, December 5 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Tears for Fears' The Hurting track list:
1. The Hurting
2. Mad World
3. Pale Shelter
4. Ideas As Opiates
5. Memories Fade
6. Suffer the Children
7. Watch Me Bleed
8. Change
9. The Prisoner
10. Start of the Breakdown

User Cycle:
12/5: TheArkOfTurus (Rush - Moving Pictures)
12/12: Snake5555555555 (Brand New - The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me)
12/19: Jesse_Custer
12/26: ZaziGuado
1/2: SpikeSetsFire
1/9: Johnbobb
1/16: VeryInsane
1/23: CasanovaZelos
1/30: Seanchan
2/6: Giggsalot
2/13: RyoCaliente
2/20: darkx
2/27: neonreaper
3/6: Great_Paul
3/13: jcgamer107
3/20: ChichiriMuyo
3/27: ChainLTTP
4/3: BlueCrystalTear
4/10: MetalmindStats

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CasanovaZelos
11/28/21 10:09:37 AM
#2:


Steely Dan's Can't Buy a Thrill results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
Seanchan (10)
CasanovaZelos (12)
Seginustemple (14)
Raetsel_Lapin (14)
rwlh (16)
HBJDubs (16)
SpikeSetsFire (16)
MetalmindStats (18)
BlueCrystalTear (20)
TheArkOfTurus (30)

General Album Comments

Seginustemple: Well I'll tell you Steely Dan is one of America's finest bands, and all of their records are good. Can't Buy a Thrill isn't actually my favorite but it's probably their most widely known release, owing to a pair of radio-saturated singles (or trio if you include Dirty Work) that remain dad rock staples today. It's surprisingly well-formed for a debut, with a host of seasoned musicians punching in tasty solos over catchy 70's tv-show theme songwriting. It's not as jazzy or polished as their later records (The Dan's sound gradually progresses from beer at a jukebox to wine on a yacht) but the musicianship is apparent in the performance and arrangements. It's a classic for a reason. I think the only flaw is that 8/10 of the songs use a fade out ending. It's like they can't pick a chord to end on!

Seanchan: This is an enjoyable, easy listening album with some fun riffs. Even the bottom song on the list aint that bad! I kind of put it in the same category as something like Rumours...but not quite as good.

MetalmindStats: In sum, creativity combined with cynicism never sounded quite so smooth, or something.

rwlh: This album was like opening a window in springtime. Glad I listened to it!

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CasanovaZelos
11/28/21 10:13:26 AM
#3:


Can't Buy a Thrill track ranking

10. Brooklyn (Owes the Charmer Under Me) (Track #8)
Score: 27 (Average Rank: 8.3/10)
Biggest Fan(s): SpikeSetsFire (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seginustemple, BlueCrystalTear, MetalmindStats (#10)

Seginustemple: It's a dip in energy late in the record, one of the two tracks sung by David Palmer and I think it shows why his more sensitive voice was ultimately not the right fit for this band, even if he turns in a capable performance. Jeff Baxter's lap steel solo is probably the sleepiest on the record, though he adds a lot of nice touches in the verses. There's still a solid core of a tune here but it's played so straight it doesn't stand out much on an album this good.

BlueCrystalTear: This feels like an old school country ballad. It doesn't really gel with the rest of the album, and that's why it's down here.

9. Turn the Heartbeat Over Again (Track #10)
Score: 39 (Average Rank: 7.1/10)
Biggest Fan(s): TheArkOfTurus, Seginustemple, rwlh, MetalmindStats (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos (#10)

Seginustemple: Perhaps the strangest song of the bunch, there's a lot of silence as punctuation between sections so the mood feels very flexible. I really enjoy the way the vocals shift between speaker channels as the music shifts gears into the chorus. The 'solo' is almost played for comedy, as the tune suddenly gives way to a slowed down jugband section before switching back to a proggy interlude. The minor key twist at the very end is a nice touch to close on. "oh Michael, oh Jesus..."

8. Fire in the Hole (Track #7)
Score: 42 (Average Rank: 7.2/10)
Biggest Fan(s): TheArkOfTurus (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): rwlh, SpikeSetsFire (#10)

Seginustemple: The Vietnam protest song, or at least a song about draft-dodging. Fagen takes a rare piano solo with some angsty flare to prove he has some chops. But there's only a sketch of drum, bass, and lap steel guitar outside of that so the rest of the instrumental feels a little thin to me.

7. Midnite Cruiser (Track #4)
Score: 46 (Average Rank: 6.5/10)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#10)

Seginustemple: The only Steely Dan album track sung by *checks notes...* drummer Jim Hodder. He actually works on this one, his voice isn't too dissimilar from Fagen's and they all jump in on the chorus anyway. It's another nostalgic dive bar anthem, but far from the best one here.

BlueCrystalTear: "Gentleman Loser" is a great rhyme, and that guitar is awesome as heck. (I had thought this was Fagen too, but apparently not >_>)

6. Change of the Guard (Track #9)
Score: 50 (Average Rank: 6/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Seginustemple, HBJDubs, SpikeSetsFire, Seanchan (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#10)

Seginustemple: Perfect simplicity right here, never stops rocking. Has my favorite 'na na na' section this side of a hey hey goodbye and the bluesy guitar solo is a whole jam unto itself. That's Jeff "Skunk" Baxter ripping it up, now he's a respected missile defense advisor to the Pentagon. How's that for a change of the guard!

5. Kings (Track #3)
Score: 51 (Average Rank: 6.1/10)
Biggest Fan(s): rwlh, HBJDubs (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): TheArkOfTurus, BlueCrystalTear (#9)

Seginustemple: This one is catchy as heck. The crunchy guitar and stack of hype background singers give it a lot of energy, and the subtle addition of congas in the chorus keeps it moving (even if you don't think you notice, you notice). The liner notes cheekily include a 'no political significance' disclaimer under this track, which almost certainly means they were alluding to Nixon.

BlueCrystalTear: I forgot about anything other than the chorus - featuring the actual "good King Richard" and the inactual "good King John" (must be sarcasm since the Royal Family disowned him) - by the end of "Midnite Cruiser." Shows you how unmemorable the verses are... possibly in relation to the other songs, too.

4. Dirty Work (Track #2)
Score: 55 (Average Rank: 5.9/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): TheArkOfTurus (#10)

Seginustemple: I'm just not into Palmer's soft vocals in the verses. But I dig the instrumental - that intro with the rhodes/guitar arpeggios and organ lead into the horn line is butter. And I'd be a fool to deny that the chorus is a groove. The random break for the sax solo is totally unnecessary though.

BlueCrystalTear: A little redundant for a song that's just over 3 minutes long, but has a catchy beat. The vocal is sleepier than I'd like but it's still a good song.

3. Only a Fool Would Say That (Track #5)
Score: 69 (Average Rank: 4.5/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Seginustemple (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#10)

Seginustemple: Plays as a cynical response to "Imagine", which was released a year earlier. It's never totally clear when Steely Dan is being sarcastic but I tend to read this one at face value. How smooth is that instrumental though? It's tightly written and the jazzy latin style is rendered so convincingly, it never sounds like a costume the band is putting on. Bonus points for ending the song neatly instead of fading out.

BlueCrystalTear: Once I read that this song was indirectly calling Lennon a communist, it shot up my ranking. Like many of the other songs, it's catchy.

2. Reelin' in the Years (Track #6)
Score: 112 (Average Rank: 2/10)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear, MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seginustemple, Raetsel_Lapin (#3)

Seginustemple: One of those songs that's built to get more nostalgic every time you hear it. The vocal harmonies make this one shine, and that becomes a Dan trademark as Donald Fagen assumes lead vocal duties despite his lack of range. I'll always remember that Joe Satriani admitted he ripped off this song on his solo for "If I Could Fly" in a 2006 issue of Guitar Player magazine, and then later he successfully sued Coldplay for ripping off that same song. Sneaky bastard!

BlueCrystalTear: In my mind, this is THE Steely Dan song. It's catchy in every single way. The musicianship is incredible and speaks to their talents.

1. Do It Again (Track #1)
Score: 129 (Average Rank: 1.4/10)
Biggest Fan(s): Seginustemple, CasanovaZelos, rwlh, HBJDubs, Raetsel_Lapin, SpikeSetsFire, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): TheArkOfTurus (#3)

Seginustemple: "In the morning you go gunnin' for the man who stole your water" Steely Dan has so many songs involving gunplay and gambling it becomes a whole mythology, the theme of cyclical mistakes and indulgence is like their lyrical north star. The tune is full of flavor, congas/guiro set a mellow salsa mood and electric sitar/plastic organ solos send it to vibespace. An excellent song to drive to, it's too cool for its own good.

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CasanovaZelos
11/28/21 10:13:58 AM
#4:


...the name of the first artist in the poll should be Cur de pirate...the poll garbled the special character.

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Jesse_Custer
11/28/21 10:25:17 AM
#5:


Its possible I went a bit too obscure with my album choices, but I actually decided against nominating some favorite albums that are even more under the radar. Anyway, heres a brief summary of these albums:

1. Cur de pirate - Roses

Batrice Martin (aka Cur de pirate) is one of my favorite female vocalists, with a beautiful voice whether shes singing in French or English (you get both on this album). But if all I could say about her is shes a great singer, I wouldnt have selected the album. Shes also a fantastic songwriter, whose songs are densely layered (with plenty of strings) and are a treat to listen to on quality headphones. While I would classify this album as indie pop, theres also hints of electronic music and even some hip hop.

2. Rufus Wainwright - Want One

Rufus is one of those musicians whose style is one of a kind and I cant really think of another artist who sounds similar. The best way I can describe his style is an old musical blended with modern pop. Theres more different instruments than I can identify in the first track alone, let alone the rest of the album. And I appreciate that this is one of those albums I can always come back to and notice something new.

3. James - Pleased to Meet You

There are many things I love about this album. But I think most of all is the way every song sounds so different in style than any other song on the album, at times to the point its hard to believe its the same band. And while there are few obvious choices for a single, theres not really any song on the album that feels like filler. Theres a definite hint of U2 to the band, but James have a style all their own.
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Mr Lasastryke
11/28/21 11:01:47 AM
#6:


interesting read! steely dan is one of my favorite bands too, though can't buy a thrill is far from my favorite album by them.

check out this cool cover of do it again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB_piCkMKv8

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Seanchan
11/28/21 11:23:15 AM
#7:


Jesse_Custer posted...
Its possible I went a bit too obscure with my album choices, but I actually decided against nominating some favorite albums that are even more under the radar. Anyway, heres a brief summary of these albums:

Thanks for the writeups. I'm pretty sure I've never heard of any of those 3 artists before.

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Jesse_Custer
11/28/21 1:22:33 PM
#8:


Reminded me of Depeche Mode at times. It was an enjoyable album overall.

Mad World
Pale Shelter
Watch Me Bleed
Start of the Breakdown
Memories Fade
Change
The Hurting
Suffer the Children
The Prisoner
Ideas as Opiates
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StartTheMachine
11/28/21 3:49:14 PM
#9:


Well I've listened to this album a billion times. Might as well participate.

1. Start of the Breakdown
2. Memories Fade
3. Mad World
4. Ideas as Opiates
5. Pale Shelter
6. Watch Me Bleed
7. Change
8. The Hurting
9. Suffer the Children
10. The Prisoner

Start of the Breakdown was always gonna be #1; Mad World and Memories Fade for #2 were really tough to choose between. The bottom half are all about equally good, sans The Prisoner. At least it makes for a good lead in to Start of the Breakdown.

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CasanovaZelos
11/29/21 9:29:16 AM
#10:


bump

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Seanchan
11/30/21 8:39:00 AM
#11:


Did a first listen to The Hurting yesterday. Didn't do much for me...

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"That was unnecessarily dramatic". - NY Mets motto (courtesy of InnerTubeHero)
Congratulations to azuarc, the guru of gurus and winner of GotD 2020!
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CasanovaZelos
11/30/21 2:24:56 PM
#12:


I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which I'm bumping
Are the best I've ever had

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Johnbobb
11/30/21 7:31:32 PM
#13:


Seanchan posted...
Did a first listen to The Hurting yesterday. Didn't do much for me...
You don't give me love. You give me cold hands.

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BlueCrystalTear
11/30/21 7:38:52 PM
#14:


tagging this for later, definitely doing this one
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#FearTheDeer | [For lease] | ((FREE HUGS)) | You're living your own life. You're you.
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SpikeSetsFire
12/01/21 6:56:09 AM
#15:


Mad World
The Hurting
Pale Shelter
Watch Me Bleed
Memories Fade
Suffer the Children
Start of the Breakdown
Change
Ideas as Opiates
The Prisoner


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CasanovaZelos
12/02/21 1:50:42 AM
#16:


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CasanovaZelos
12/02/21 1:57:15 PM
#17:


bump

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ZaziGuado
12/02/21 3:20:22 PM
#18:


I've listened to it once. It was okay. Maybe I'll give it another spin later and try to rank them.

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CasanovaZelos
12/02/21 4:24:35 PM
#19:


I do hope we eventually cover more of the ultra-obvious albums soon. I think it's good to explore, but sometimes taking in a new album and also trying to rank the tracks is a bit much. While they might have been 'obvious' choices, albums like Nevermind, OK Computer, and Rumours actually had unpredictable results.

I've realized this has essentially become a hybrid of a board 8 album club and a forum game, and while I empathize with wanting to show everyone your favorite artist, I hope people are also considering the game part with their nominations. Obviously, I don't want to tell people not to nominate what they choose - rather, I'm putting this out there in hopes it encourages some of us to focus on weeks where most of us are largely familiar with all three nominations.

(This isn't meant to be a complaint about any of the choices so far - there's been at least one album I'm familiar with in each batch. Mainly, I think this game works better when we occasionally have a week where several people can chime in with long-held but often unexpressed opinions)

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SpikeSetsFire
12/02/21 4:41:05 PM
#20:


Don't worry. I've had my 3 nominations planned for almost 6 months.
And they are about as mainstream as they come.
I think all were #1 albums on the billboard charts at their peak.


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Jesse_Custer
12/02/21 5:04:59 PM
#21:


I actually wasnt choosing my albums based on favorite artists or anything like that, just albums I thought were really solid overall and interesting to listen to. I havent even listened to two of them in at least a couple years now. If you want to redo the poll, I wouldn't mind tossing in some more mainstream options.
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Seanchan
12/02/21 5:58:15 PM
#22:


I've had many different ideas on where to go with my week, though I've got a 3 pack I'd really like to put up, depending upon if any get selected before that point. My musical tastes are not nearly as eclectic as some of you, so my choices are almost always going to trend toward the more mainstream, or at the very least more "accessible"/"easy listening".

I did worry that once we got to the user weeks that things would get too obscure...but at the same time I don't mind hearing things I wouldn't expect. Sometimes you get The Knife and Air, other times you get The Pixies or The Avalanches.

I'm sure we'll get to Metallica and The Rolling Stones and Stevie Wonder and stuff like that at some point. I guess we could always take a break at points to do a "classic", should we begin to tail off in participation.

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SpikeSetsFire
12/02/21 6:19:44 PM
#23:


While we are discussing the direction of the topic... What's the plan after the user cycle ends?

Any ideas?


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CasanovaZelos
12/02/21 6:24:27 PM
#24:


SpikeSetsFire posted...
While we are discussing the direction of the topic... What's the plan after the user cycle ends?

Any ideas?

I was planning to just keep cycling through it.

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CasanovaZelos
12/02/21 6:29:32 PM
#25:


Jesse_Custer posted...
I actually wasnt choosing my albums based on favorite artists or anything like that, just albums I thought were really solid overall and interesting to listen to. I havent even listened to two of them in at least a couple years now. If you want to redo the poll, I wouldn't mind tossing in some more mainstream options.

No worries - I want a mix of both types (and I don't think Rufus Wainwright or James were that obscure in their time, if a bit overlooked these days). Really, my concern is that if we go too obscure for too long, some people might drift away from the series, but that fear may also be unfounded.

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CasanovaZelos
12/03/21 11:22:33 AM
#26:


bump

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CasanovaZelos
12/03/21 6:51:04 PM
#27:


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CasanovaZelos
12/04/21 11:44:08 AM
#28:


As far as the major synth-pop bands go, Tears for Fears find a strangely accessible take. Nothing they do pops out to me like the best of the genre, but they similarly do nothing tedious like some of the more upbeat acts. Every song on The Hurting is strong, but few I would listen to outside of the album. I do think it's underrated as an album however - how is this not in the top 3000 on Acclaimed Music?

My ranking:
Mad World (#1722 all-time)
Change
Watch Me Bleed
Pale Shelter
The Prisoner
Suffer the Children
The Hurting
Ideas As Opiates
Start of the Breakdown
Memories Fade

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HBJDubs
12/04/21 4:47:26 PM
#29:


1. The Prisoner
2. Memories Fade
3. Watch Me Bleed
4. Pale Shelter
5. Suffer The Children
6. Mad World
7. Start Of The Breakdown
8. The Hurting
9. Change
10. Ideas As Opiates

I'll sign up to join the cycle

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Raetsel_Lapin
12/04/21 4:50:05 PM
#30:


1: Pale Shelter
2: Memories Fade
3: Watch Me Bleed
4: Start Of The Breakdown
5: Mad World
6: The Prisoner
7: The Hurting
8: Ideas As Opiates
9: Change
10: Suffer The Children
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Johnbobb
12/04/21 7:59:25 PM
#31:


  1. Pale Shelter
  2. The Hurting
  3. Change
  4. Mad World
  5. Ideas As Opiates
  6. The Prisoner
  7. Start of the Breakdown
  8. Suffer the Children
  9. Memories Fade
  10. Watch Me Bleed



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Seanchan
12/04/21 9:40:09 PM
#32:


  1. Memories Fade
  2. Watch Me Bleed
  3. Pale Shelter
  4. Mad World
  5. Change
  6. Suffer the Children
  7. Start of the Breakdown
  8. The Hurting
  9. The Prisoner
  10. Ideas As Opiates
This is a solid album. Better than my initial impression. With that said, I still feel like I didn't truly connect with it; that my enjoyment was almost more academic than anything else. I think it's that I don't see myself listening to my top songs as singles, which has ended up happening on quite a few other albums we've ranked, including ones I've liked less as an album than this one.

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BlueCrystalTear
12/04/21 10:04:00 PM
#33:


I am only gonna be able to listen once. Actually I had to do "Pale Shelter" twice because the official T4F playlist on YouTube had a music video with garbage audio quality (they have the remaster on there separately). That makes a WORLD of difference when stacked up against the others. Album comments below ~~...
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This is a really, really good example of early-80s synthpop, like Big Chair after it. The songs have a consistent gloss and work together well. Some of these you like or don't. I really enjoyed "The Prisoner" until I started hearing the same few notes again and again and again. There are many of those catchy melodies trademark of the era - and it all works for the better.

1. Mad World
2. Pale Shelter
3. The Hurting
4. Watch Me Bleed
5. Start of the Breakdown
6. Change
7. Suffer the Children
8. The Prisoner
9. Ideas As Opiates
10. Memories Fade
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CasanovaZelos
12/05/21 12:42:25 AM
#34:


final bump

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MetalmindStats
12/05/21 1:59:03 AM
#35:


I didn't have as much time this week as I would've liked, so I in turn won't quite have as much to say as I would've liked. (Mainly, my observations on individual songs would've been rather surface-level.)

  1. Start of the Breakdown
  2. Watch Me Bleed
  3. Mad World
  4. Change
  5. The Hurting
  6. Pale Shelter
  7. Suffer the Children
  8. Memories Fade
  9. Ideas As Opiates
  10. The Prisoner
As a child, and even into my teenage years, Tears for Fears music seemed to play often than not during drives of any length - the original source of my enduring affection for them. It had enough going on musically to avoid receding into the background all while still being mellow and relaxed, the latter characteristics of which my mom cites for her own favoritism to this day.

As an adult, I've found that such traits are only part of the picture; on The Hurting in particular, emotions roil beneath a calm surface, and I always have been fond of a good contrast. I know the whole 'smooth, mainstream music about mental turmoil' thing isn't exactly groundbreaking; my most obvious point of reference is The Police (also among my favorite artists), who were on top of the music world about the time Tears for Fears emerged. Yet amidst all the polish, The Hurting somehow still feels like the ineffably singular product of an unusually personal, vivid artistic vision, especially by debut standards - and perhaps it's no wonder knowing that Curt and Roland had full freedom to work in their comfort zone here. It's almost akin to a concept album without that format's limitations, even, an aura later (also excellent) Tears for Fears albums have failed to replicate for me.

Of course, some might argue - and have, in The Hurting's time - that the songwriting here exudes too much adolescent angst to be taken altogether seriously. However, it works for me (and, it seems, most of us) exactly because it's not overblown in the way of a Pretty Hate Machine. Even more importantly, the lyrics strike a chord with my own experiences, layers I discerned only when I began to unpack my own childhood and who I am in general, hand-in-hand. That Tears for Fears sets such words against their contribution to the synth-pop trend of the early 80s only accentuates the parallels in its way. All of it (no song spared) is catchy, cohesive music with real substance and a sense of timelessness, an appealing contradiction not found in abundance in a sub-genre I nonetheless enjoy.

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ChichiriMuyo
12/05/21 5:06:15 AM
#36:


While listening to the hurting I often found myself asking "why?" and the answer was always "because." There's a lot of experimentation going on here, and not all of it good. Some of the album's best bits, however, felt like they could have been on an excellent 16 bit game soundtrack. Unfortunately while that may have made this album revolutionary then, it makes it just seem weird now. I can see how this album could have been influential to a lot of artists, but there are so many instances where the choices they made just felt like they declared "challenge accepted" when no one challenged them to anything. A half-good listen.

  1. The Prisoner
  2. Start of the Breakdown
  3. Mad World
  4. Change
  5. Watch Me Bleed
  6. Pale Shelter
  7. Memories Fade
  8. Suffer the Children
  9. The Hurting
  10. Ideas As Opiates

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Seanchan
12/05/21 9:18:12 AM
#37:


ChichiriMuyo posted...
Some of the album's best bits, however, felt like they could have been on an excellent 16 bit game soundtrack.

The start of Change, for example?

Love that opening quite a lot...then the song falls off a bit. Probably elevated the song a spot or two in my rankings just for that though.

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"That was unnecessarily dramatic". - NY Mets motto (courtesy of InnerTubeHero)
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