Board 8 > I started playing Great Ace Attorney Chronicles again. (spoilers)

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transience
09/22/21 10:36:03 AM
#1:


I paused for a month or so after beating the first 'game', partially because I had other things to play but also because I just wasn't enjoying it very much.

GAA2 is a lot better so far. the first case is pretty standard tutorial fare, though it did have a notable recurring character die in the process which kinda bummed me out because I liked Brett as a villain. but, I can see that we're going somewhere with it, and hopefully it still has some punch with her dead.

I liked case 2 a good bit, moreso than any of the cases in GAA1. Shamspeare was an awful character with no redeeming qualities but I rather liked him just getting up in the middle of an investigation. that got me pretty good. the dynamic of the supposed victim being alive and testifying against Soseki was pretty cool, and when Green got involved I thought that was cool too. you get to know a lot of Garrideb's past and present tenants and those twists were really good. I didn't expect to study gas distribution so deeply in an AA game.

I also liked defending Soseki again - one complaint I have with this game is that you're kind of just given defendants, and having a natural 'in' with Soseki for a second murder case really helped push the narrative along. I don't like Soseki at all but at least we have some kind of relationship there as opposed to Stronghart just throwing some rando at us.

speaking of which, case 3, which I'm on now. I wasn't feeling this at all on investigation day 1, where you're kind of revealing some backstory on the fair and then trying to battle against super kinesis or whatever. Harebrayne might be the first defendant where it feels like you're actively working against him from the first minute. he isn't particularly likable, but isn't awful. eventually you debunk his case and Susato comes back for the miracle assist. hell yeah. I don't like Iris so I'm really happy to have Susato back.

but investigation day 2... I don't know what the list is, but investigation day 2 of case GAA2-3 might be among the all time greats. there's the hints of a Kuzama reveal -- which I had been expecting since GAA1-2 -- and then everything with the wax museum and Drubber. this whole investigation day has a vibe and it reminded me of 2-4's second day with how dark it gets. it's not on that level, of course, but after GAA1 I wasn't really expecting this game to hit very high heights, and so far this is good.

I'm about to start trial day 2 and am excited to see where this goes. there's Kuzama, everything with the Professor and van Zieks, the backstory about Stronghart and Susato's dad.. it seems like it might be winding up for something great. GAA2 is very intentionally only revealing the story in layers and while can be a little obnoxious -- don't let me get on my soapbox about Sholmes -- I appreciate that it seems like it's building to something.

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Leonhart4
09/22/21 10:39:55 AM
#2:


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Raka_Putra
09/22/21 11:34:01 AM
#3:


I'm jealous because you're enjoying G2-3 for the first time.

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SSBM_Guy
09/22/21 12:46:57 PM
#4:


G2-3 investigation day 2 is GOAT for sure

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Bitto
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transience
09/22/21 11:31:57 PM
#5:


some four hours later, I finally finished G2-3's final trial day.

wow. I'm not even sure what to say besides, how are there two more cases in this game?

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Raka_Putra
09/22/21 11:40:24 PM
#6:


You better believe it!

Well, obviously there are still a few glaring mysteries left.

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transience
09/22/21 11:43:23 PM
#7:


there's material to cover for sure. but that was basically a finale case shoved into the middle of the game, and that doesn't usually happen

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UshiromiyaEva
09/23/21 12:23:30 AM
#8:


GAA2 was already a blast, but after 2-3 gets going the ride never stops.

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LeonhartFour
09/23/21 2:52:23 AM
#9:


transience posted...
there's material to cover for sure. but that was basically a finale case shoved into the middle of the game, and that doesn't usually happen

Yeah, probably the closest you get to that before now is E2-3.

But G2-3 does a good job of setting up what comes next.

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transience
09/23/21 11:29:04 PM
#10:


I played an absolute ton yesterday so I only gave it about 10-15 minutes today. all I did was kick it off to see where it goes. I didn't expect to see the japanese bros show up just yet - I thought case 4 would deal with Kazuma being back and they'd be here for the finale. I didn't expect to see them before I saw Kazuma again.

I finished my chat in the hotel area with them and then called it a day. I'll get more in tomorrow.

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transience
09/24/21 11:27:09 PM
#11:


okay, I finished the first investigation day of case 4. this was good, if not predictable -- Gregson was planning to leave London which meant of course he was going to get taken out. (I still haven't seen his body -- I don't think the game will keep playing the fake victim card, but you never know.) you know that you're going to end up defending van Zieks, despite his absolute insistence that it not be you. and you know that the prosecutor was going to be Kazuma -- either him or Stronghart, but I get the feeling that we save Stronghart until case 5.

the first chunk of this investigation day wasn't very fun - Sholmes, the hair color and the random racist prison warden. I'm sure it all ties in, in the same way that you knew the wax museum would play a big role in case 3. but for now, having all these random events get eventually tied up in a neat bow.. eh. sometimes things are a little too convenient. anyway, looking forward to seeing what Kazuma's like in a trial.

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LeonhartFour
09/25/21 1:24:30 AM
#12:


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transcience
09/25/21 9:36:03 AM
#13:


I did like that! but the random aside didnt really seem relevant at all even though you know it will be.

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iphonesience
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Leonhart4
09/25/21 10:38:31 AM
#14:


Yeah, that's the thing that DGS does differently from other games in the series. It plays the long game a lot, and even the cases themselves aren't necessarily self-contained like you're used to.

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transience
09/25/21 11:36:38 AM
#15:


it even goes out of the way to withhold information until it's ready to dole it out to you. usually a game will do that with a hidden hand, but this game lets you know that it knows and flaunts the fact that the other characters know more than you.


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transience
09/25/21 10:37:11 PM
#16:


I played through part 1 of trial 1. I liked the tone here, at least in theory -- no jury, mostly I was hoping for no audience too but they still had the whispers and murmurs which I thought took away from it. oh well.

Kazuma is obviously the main draw here. I'm... struggling with the way they're framing him. like, think back to case 2, or really, all of the first game. Ryu's entire arc is predicated on him. and yet, we haven't even been allowed to really talk to him in any way beyond just the case. we don't even know if we've had any time to just go and say hey, have some tea, whatever.

Kazuma's our BFF and yet he's calling us.. our learned friend, the same as van Zieks? it's like he's his protege or something, despite having his memory back for like 8 days. he's really competent in court, very likable, but.. I don't know, I wanted something more. I also don't like his objection at all. it doesn't seem to fit him in the slightest.

the case itself is interesting, and I have to say, case 4 Naruhodo feels like the most competent in just about any game. there's not a lot of tricks and we seem really cool and collected, a lot like Kazuma. it feels like we're trying to match his tone. I like it a lot... but also, it doesn't feel honest because Kazuma seems to have turned from hothead to really detached overnight. I'm waiting to see where we go with him because we're obviously early. we're taking apart these corner rats like they're nothing and the deductions are simple, something I appreciate.

this case is reminding me of a 3-4 type of case where it's really framing what's to come. don't get me wrong, I'm liking everything the game is throwing at me with the vibe of the case and the idea of having Kazuma here. I think the execution just isn't all there though.

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Leonhart4
09/25/21 10:46:08 PM
#17:


Kazuma's new prosecutor theme is an absolute banger though

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SSBM_Guy
09/25/21 11:09:01 PM
#18:


Apparently, learned friend is how one lawyer refers to another lawyer in a courtroom, so it's kind of a neutral and the polite thing to say.

The way van Zieks would use it all the time, I thought it would be a little more derogatory, but I guess not. I think that fits into van Zieks's overall personality.

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LeonhartFour
09/25/21 11:11:28 PM
#19:


Yeah, it feels like a backhanded way of calling someone stupid, but it's generally just considered polite (although in van Zieks's case, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a little tinge of sarcasm in there).

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transcience
09/25/21 11:33:26 PM
#20:


yeah, I had been wondering why it was used. it seems like one of those translations of polite japanese speech that doesnt really mesh well in english.

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iphonesience
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transience
09/26/21 12:01:42 AM
#21:


okay, I finished trial day 1. it was plainly obvious that Hugh whatever his name is was going to be Daley Vigil thanks to the picture, and that his notable feature was that he looked like a normal dude. but, I didn't put the pieces together that this Gossip idiot was going to be him. once that became clear, everything else kinda fell into place here.

I also figured out quickly that it wasn't Gregson that showed up at the park, but I figured that was because he was already dead and the killer took his place. I guess that's still possible but I'm having a hard time thinking that Vigil is the killer. something else is up here.

I've been thinking since the very beginning that Kazuma's game was going to be to burn down the British legal system for its handling of his dad's death. that... seems accurate, though maybe Naruhodo can turn the ship and just bring out the truth and rescue his troubled friend before he goes too far. that's where my head is at. it feels weird that it's being done with Vigil - his role makes sense, but his character seems so soft for someone who was supposedly a warden. I can't see this guy running a jail, even if he's got some repressed memories that have changed his personality.

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Janus5k
09/26/21 12:48:23 AM
#22:


I felt like how easy that case was kind of undermines Kazuma a bit - they build him up as some fearsome opponent and then aside from one part near the beginning it just doesn't feel like he really gets the edge on you, he just objects a lot. I guess the idea is you're supposed to be his equal now but it honestly didn't even feel like that.

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LeonhartFour
09/26/21 12:57:26 AM
#23:


Yeah, Kazuma doesn't ever really feel like he's on another level from Ryunosuke, but I do think it kinda works at the same time. It feels like these games are Ryunosuke's journey more than other AA games, where it usually feels like the focus is on the prosecutor's journey and the defense attorney is along for the ride. It feels like we've hit peak Ryunosuke here, and it shows.

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transience
09/26/21 8:17:44 AM
#24:


oh I have a lot of thoughts about that!

that's the advantage of a new set of characters. in the AA games, Phoenix is essentially done with his character arc by the end of AA3, and you could make an argument that he's actually done by the end of 1-4. (I would agree with that, I think.) in AA2, Phoenix doesn't go through much growth outside of maybe 2-4, and I would say that Edgeworth is the bigger growth there anyway. AA3 is about Godot and the Feys. Phoenix plays a big role in the end but he's more there for the ride.

AA4 should have been Apollo's growth, but y'know, and by the time you get to the end of AA5, Phoenix is battling Edgeworth but it's not really clear why? the story is about Blackquill, Athena, and Apollo, but yet here's Phoenix crashing the party for no particular reason, because he's the main character of the series and he's gotta wrap it up. AA6 is interesting because here's Phoenix again in a foreign land, but the game eventually clears the stage for Apollo to shine. it would have probably been better if Apollo was at the center from the start but at least they got there.

the two GAA games seem to be written as part of a singular package, or at least that's how I'm perceiving it with this collection, and so Naruhodo is actually central to the plot. the first game almost feels like a tutorial for the second. it's a strength of the game for sure.

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Leonhart4
09/26/21 8:20:28 AM
#25:


Well, I'd almost argue that the only game where Phoenix is the central character of the plot is the only game where he isn't the main character! "What happened to Phoenix Wright?" is the big lingering question throughout Apollo Justice.

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Leonhart4
09/26/21 8:35:36 AM
#26:


I think I'd say JFA is pretty close for Phoenix though. It feels like the central question there is "What does it mean to be a lawyer?" Franziska and Edgeworth provide the opposite extremes of that question, while Phoenix is somewhere in the middle trying to figure it out for himself.

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UshiromiyaEva
09/26/21 9:51:11 AM
#27:


I do think Kazuma seems to get more and more off the rails as he gets more and more emotionally invested, but I would note that his seemingly amateur appearance initially WAS because he was actually leading you into certain conclusions. He does this multiple times IIRC, similar to how Van Zieks is being intentionally "dumb" in 2-3 on multiple occasions.

Ignoring obvious early tutorial stuff and the like, the only time in either of these games were a prosecutor just seen inexcusabley, immersion breakingly incompetent for no reason to the point where I had to take a short break is the screenshot below. The excuse of it being there for gameplay purposes doesn't fly, because there are plenty of things that are revealed without gameplay interruption in this same vein.



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transience
09/26/21 11:17:26 AM
#28:


wait. case 4 ends with investigation day 2? and case 5 is just the trial?

well, that's going to make any case ranking extremely confusing!

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Leonhart4
09/26/21 11:23:18 AM
#29:


transience posted...
wait. case 4 ends with investigation day 2? and case 5 is just the trial?

well, that's going to make any case ranking extremely confusing!

Yeah, it's a really strange way to do it.

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SSBM_Guy
09/26/21 11:53:16 AM
#30:


G2-4 still top tier for the final reveal and red-headed league

I dunno why I like those guys so much, but they crack me up. Their confident "nothing suspicious happened here, guys" testimony, followed by both of them bawling and testifying that they chained someone up is such a whiplash. The courtroom's reaction just nails it down as such a memorable moment for me.

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Leonhart4
09/26/21 11:54:04 AM
#31:


I think I liked the Skulkin Brothers better than the Red-Headed League bros, but they were both good.

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transience
09/26/21 12:24:12 PM
#32:


they're both kinda bad. useful, but bad. these games, by virtue of their multiple witnesses and jury members, kinda dilutes the pool of characters. I guess I'm used to having solid thoughts on each character from each case, but in these games it almost feels like they're not even characters at all, just sources of information.

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Leonhart4
09/26/21 12:35:19 PM
#33:


transience posted...
they're both kinda bad. useful, but bad. these games, by virtue of their multiple witnesses and jury members, kinda dilutes the pool of characters. I guess I'm used to having solid thoughts on each character from each case, but in these games it almost feels like they're not even characters at all, just sources of information.

Yeah, I get that, too. I was trying to think of how I'd rank the characters, and it was difficult. The casts of most of the cases are much bigger than usual, and you have so many one-note characters.

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transcience
09/26/21 1:05:10 PM
#34:


yeah I think only you can share my feelings. I come at it from a ranking perspective and if you asked me to name half the characters Id be like, uh..?

I also think about my sporcle quiz of most cases and there are a lot of nobodies who would make that list now by virtue of randomly showing up in 3-4 cases

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iphonesience
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Leonhart4
09/26/21 1:07:16 PM
#35:


Yeah, you've got all these no-name jurors who show up in G1-4 and G2-2, and that would just throw everything off. Probably the thing that annoys me most is having so many characters with no names!

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SSBM_Guy
09/26/21 1:10:33 PM
#36:


I come from a tabletop DM background and I think that really helped me wrap around why GAA feels different than Ace Attorney proper. Not every character you create is going to be a star like Drebber and Harebrayne. Sometimes you just want simple comic relief. I find that comic relief works better as a duo than as a single character.

For the record, I'm also working on a ranking project. Here's what I've done with the GAA characters:

1) Only include important jury members. If you can't say much about them, they're not worth your time.
2) Beats, Skulkin Brothers, Bohemian Kid & Balloon, and Red-Headed League counts as "one" character because they're pretty much inseparable. For an AA trilogy example, look at Ben and Trilo.
3) Any named character that you don't have any real comments on aren't really worth the time to rank.

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Leonhart4
09/26/21 1:18:53 PM
#37:


It honestly reminded me of a Layton game where you have like a dozen completely unimportant characters whose only purpose is to give you puzzles. Makes sense, I guess, since this game borrows a lot from Layton/AA!

But yeah, I would definitely rank the Skulkins together. They're completely indistinguishable as characters. The Red-Headed bros at least have distinct personalities, but they still work in tandem.

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transcience
09/26/21 10:53:49 PM
#38:


the ss grouse, huh

thank you story mode

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iphonesience
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LeonhartFour
09/26/21 10:58:40 PM
#39:


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transcience
09/26/21 11:05:53 PM
#40:


if the evidence says grouse, I certainly dont see it! I assume this is some translation error or something.

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iphonesience
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LeonhartFour
09/26/21 11:06:36 PM
#41:


You have to examine the back of the note Mikotoba wrote you, and you learn it's a ticket for the SS Grouse.

the problem is you haven't even thought about that note since the beginning of G2-4 and you probably examined it way back then, so it's easy to forget what it said

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transcience
09/26/21 11:09:37 PM
#42:


oh I did that immediately! the evidence calls it the black bird, though

edit: I guess a grouse is a bird?

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iphonesience
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LeonhartFour
09/26/21 11:11:23 PM
#43:


Well, the dialogue between Ryunosuke and Susato says it's a ticket for the SS Grouse. It would've been nice to mention that in the dialogue box for the evidence though!

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transcience
09/26/21 11:16:37 PM
#44:


oh, I see it now! too bad I examined it in literally a previous case.

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iphonesience
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LeonhartFour
09/26/21 11:17:09 PM
#45:


yeah it's stupid

this is the downside of having the last two episodes be the same case!

they definitely needed to do some housecleaning with the evidence too

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transcience
09/26/21 11:19:30 PM
#46:


I had the same thought! I looked at my list and was like yknow, I probably dont need anything related to the Hugh house anymore

but I guess its a better problem to have than the first game where you walked into court with literally 3 things

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transience
09/27/21 12:17:48 AM
#47:


okay, I finished trial part 1, or at least I think I did? I have to say, I didn't expect Iris's toy to be a line onto the grouse with sholmes and yujin. we come back to one of my least favourite settings to be controlling yujin of all people. how many characters have we controlled in an investigation? maybe... 5? this felt like a big deal, even if it was just a simple investigation to find jigoku.

I have to say, I was completely clueless in this trial. I had just about no idea of what to do the whole way. I didn't see Kazuma being on the ship at all and didn't even think to call out him as the person who made a faulty statement. I nailed case 4 without a single mistake but case 5 comes along and I just have no idea what is trying to be inferred here. oh well.

I stopped after the investigation. I guess we're coming back for the magical subpoena. Sholmes, man. I have such a bad taste about him. he's the worst parts of deus ex mia turned up to 11, and happening all the time.

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Leonhart4
09/27/21 11:14:07 AM
#48:


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Raka_Putra
09/27/21 12:04:46 PM
#49:


transience posted...
I nailed case 4 without a single mistake but case 5 comes along and I just have no idea what is trying to be inferred here. oh well.
Same tbh.


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transience
09/27/21 9:31:11 PM
#50:


the Jigoku takedown went a little better than the first day, but it was still pretty unsatisfying. Jigoku felt like collateral damage and the revelations weren't particularly insightful. it was clear he was involved from the point that you get the picture taken in the hotel, and the details of how he killed Gregson felt meaningless without the reaper being unmasked. I kinda felt bad taking him down.

the least surprising twist was that Kazuma was going to push for van Zieks to take the fall for the reaper. he feels pretty transparent to me but I still haven't pieced together Stronghart's exact role just yet. I've felt pretty confident since the first game that we'd be taking him down but that's gonna make for an awkward finale with him as the judge. hopefully that makes me feel whelmed, if that is what happens.

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