Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 379: Kabulshit

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red13n
09/26/21 10:47:21 PM
#151:


GuessMyUserName posted...
always blows my mind that Rs think blatant white nationalism is their key for the future instead of appealing to immigrants from more traditionally conservative backgrounds that *very much* do exist

They were trending this way until Obama happened and they realized that was something they really couldn't handle.

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red13n
09/26/21 10:48:25 PM
#152:


(I think the they might have turned on that a bit before Obama, but Obama really was the nail in that coffin)

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Corrik7
09/27/21 1:43:52 PM
#153:


Suprak the Stud posted...
If you guys havent checked out r/HermanCainAward yet, I highly recommend it. It is a bizarre and terrifying look at the other side. And it is clear evidence as to why we will never reach herd immunity.
That reddit and the sorryantivaxxer website are pretty messed up and touches upon what I would say is clearly sociopathic joy to those that find it entertaining and such.

Those are fellow Americans who lost their lives, most likely from falling into conspiracy traps that were made prevalent by people around them they trusted or from personalities in media.

When we have superstars spouting conspiracy theories, doctors saying conspiracy theories, political icons shouting conspiracy theories... it is hard to not feel sad when people have trusted these people and died because of it.

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kevwaffles
09/27/21 1:55:32 PM
#154:


People have been dying for a year and a half, including many of the people selling that shit in the first place, hence the name of the subreddit to begin with.

So I feel pretty easy not to feel bad for people literally choosing to die when they have a completely free option not to.
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Corrik7
09/27/21 2:17:41 PM
#155:


Difference between not feeling bad and literally getting joy, entertainment, or "comfort" from it. Right? That's my take on it. I don't necessarily feel bad for the people individually who made these decisions, but I do feel sad our society has come to the point that taking a vaccine to save American lives has become politicized and our government so mistrusted and such that people will die from it.

I don't think taking joy in those peoples deaths is the proper venue but instead we should be more aggressively fighting misinformation with ways that will get through to people more. I do understand no matter what happens a portion of the population will NEVER accept what they don't WANT to hear. However, it's kind of sad our society has gotten to that point also.

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FFDragon
09/27/21 2:30:38 PM
#156:


Counterpoint: They're literally asking for it



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ChaosTonyV4
09/27/21 2:37:39 PM
#157:


It is objectively funny for the same people who outright say Covid is fake or not that serious to die from it.

Can it also be sad? Sure, two sides of the same coin.

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Grand Kirby
09/27/21 2:55:14 PM
#158:


Unfortunately it's hard for me to feel too sorry for people who paid the price for their ignorance and opposition to proper medical treatment and virus prevention because all I can think about is how many OTHER people got infected because of them. Any person who steadfastly refused to make the right decisions in protecting themselves and got infected is likely responsible for the infections for dozens of other people (tracing has seen examples of people who were responsible for over one hundred infections) , people who DID make the right choices and still got hurt, or were simply unable to get protection for themselves. Like the people who CAN'T get vaccinated because of medical conditions, children, people who work in hospitals and are at the highest risk, etc. They all suffer because of the stupid decisions of this one person. Those stories don't get as much attention, and those people aren't in anybody's thoughts when an antivaxxer passes because of the way the virus spreads it feels like they're not connected. So people will mourn and pity the antivaxxer who died and not think too much about the many deaths that person must have been responsible for. That's not something to feel sorry for. Just thinking about it is depressing. So I can't get torn up over someone who angrily avoided taking proper care of themselves and died for it because I just get reminded of all the people they likely took down with them...

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BlAcK TuRtLe
09/27/21 3:02:42 PM
#159:


Canadian politics, but a hilarious story nonetheless:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/annamie-paul-stepping-down-green-leader-1.6190793

The tl;dr is that the Green Party forgot that their platform was about pushing environmental concerns, and decided to weigh in on the issues in Palestine. The party wanted to push the populist viewpoint that Israel was 100% in the wrong, while the leader (Annamie) who is Jewish, didn't want to criticize Israel. Cue months of internal catfighting, and one of their worst election performances in recent memory. This is almost as hilarious as the PPC (religious right party) leader once again failing to win his seat

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Kingfrost
09/27/21 3:30:15 PM
#160:


It's hard for me to feel sorry for people who refuse to get vaccinated, because their actions affect so many other people. Not just through Covid, but how many people have to wait for a room in the ICU for non-covid related reasons because too many people refused to get vaccinated and got covid and took up one of those beds? How many people don't get to spend more time with their loved ones in their last moments because of Covid Restrictions that are necessary because people won't get vaccinated? Just really pisses me off.

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Sorozone
09/27/21 3:37:13 PM
#161:


I don't agree with people taking glee from people dying from COVID from antivaxxers.

I also don't blame people for doing so because like any other emotion, you only have so much empathy before those emotions turn dark and you start saying things you may not actually mean. The situation sucks, more so for people who actually are empathetic, and can understand where people are coming from, but when you have been advocating for the vaccine, for masks for doing the right thing, but they just want to yell the same old bullshit at you, and not empathize with you and your situation. That is an issue that isn't being discussed.

The aisle has been opened, it's been open for almost 2 years now. Yet they do not want to walk down it. I'm envious of people who can have that door open, of people who can leave it open for 10 years at a time, but not everyone is built like that. Some people have no empathy whatsoever.

I don't want to come off as both sides, I'm very much pro vaccine, I do not want people to die, but it's extraordinarily difficult to appeal to these people on an emotional level that I do not blame people for just wanting shit to end, even if it ends up with more dead people.

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Inviso
09/27/21 3:38:25 PM
#162:


For me, it's also the general level of malice involved in the decision. I'm aware that there are plenty of non-GOP idiot antivaxxers, but for a lot of people, they've tied their identity to hating Democrats, and therefore going out of their way to do whatever the Democrats don't want them to do, up to and including ignoring a deadly virus because their cult leader told them it was a hoax, specifically designed to target him, personally. These people make idiotic decisions out of spite and hatred, and work to convert others to make those same decisions out of further spite and hatred. It's really hard not to feel like justice has been served when they run afoul of their own bullshit.

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HeroDelTiempo17
09/27/21 4:56:02 PM
#163:


Sorozone posted...
I don't want to come off as both sides, I'm very much pro vaccine, I do not want people to die, but it's extraordinarily difficult to appeal to these people on an emotional level that I do not blame people for just wanting shit to end, even if it ends up with more dead people.

I don't think it's both sidesing. It's a complex and fucked up situation. Antivaxxers got this way largely due to societal pressure but they also can't be absolved of their own personal responsibility. Making fun of them isn't "productive" but nothing is - we don't have an effective deradicalization pipeline. Outside of more vaccine mandates there's nothing to be done. And while I don't really want more people to die I can't say it isn't darkly funny. Empathy isn't mutually exclusive with dark humor tbh. Personally I find too much of this stuff gets depressing but I'm not gonna begrudge people for it.

Basically the bottom line is we live in a society

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Grand Kirby
09/27/21 6:45:50 PM
#164:


Inviso posted...
For me, it's also the general level of malice involved in the decision. I'm aware that there are plenty of non-GOP idiot antivaxxers, but for a lot of people, they've tied their identity to hating Democrats, and therefore going out of their way to do whatever the Democrats don't want them to do, up to and including ignoring a deadly virus because their cult leader told them it was a hoax, specifically designed to target him, personally. These people make idiotic decisions out of spite and hatred, and work to convert others to make those same decisions out of further spite and hatred. It's really hard not to feel like justice has been served when they run afoul of their own bullshit.
This. That's a difference between someone who merely makes bad or risky choices and suffers for it. I feel sadness to those who, say, get addicted to drugs and die from overdoses. But most of these anti-vaccination, covid denying people aren't just simply ignorant, they're aggressively ignorant. They made these choices as a deliberate hostile measure to go against people and ideas they hate. And it's not like it was merely a choice they made for themself, they go out of their way to insult and harass people who are trying to make better decisions online and in person. Even aside from the damage their refusal to vaccinate causes to others by itself, their response against even the most innocuous of requests, like wearing a mask in public, are so vitriolic and unnecessary it's upsetting. When a person like that has those decisions they made blow up in their face, well, it's not joyful. But there is a certain reassuring feeling to know that kind of behavior did not continue scot-free without any consequences. How many people have those people hurt because of what they chose to be?

And it's not just a negative feeling of retribution. That subreddit also has stories of people who were deeply into that mindset, but after seeing the harsh reality of others who were like them paying for their actions, decided to take better care of themselves and get vaccinated. It's been so frustrating to see how we as a society have been trying to get through this disaster and have been working hard on safety guidelines and preventative measures that have been thoughtlessly tossed aside and ignored by so many, so anything that gets people to wake up and realize what's at stake helps reduce that aggravation. It's not getting "joy" or "pleasure" from hearing these comeuppances, it's the tension-calming feeling to know that the world is making sense when more and more it feels like it hasn't been. That good decisions are being rewarded, and terrible ones are not.

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GuessMyUserName
09/27/21 9:24:49 PM
#165:


Tucker upgrading his white nationalist conspiracy theories into complaining the country isn't an ethno-religious state

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1442640716753166339

alongside an A+ masterclass in manipulating data through presentation to tell what you want to tell

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Mr Lasastryke
09/28/21 2:01:23 AM
#166:


just watched that clip and it's even more insane than that image implies.

his argument is basically "so does this graph mean that americans have become less religious? no, because BEING PRO-VAX IS ALSO A RELIGION"

btw, going back to the youtube conversation from earlier, shouldn't the fox news channel be banned from youtube too at this point? they're constantly posting clips that blatantly promote white nationalism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. etc.

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LinkMarioSamus
09/28/21 5:49:00 AM
#167:


That reminds me of the whole Gina Carano saga. Honestly equating politics to religion is probably a fire-able offense nowadays.

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masterplum
09/28/21 7:47:34 AM
#168:


GuessMyUserName posted...
Tucker upgrading his white nationalist conspiracy theories into complaining the country isn't an ethno-religious state

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1442640716753166339

alongside an A+ masterclass in manipulating data through presentation to tell what you want to tell

To be fair, a 12% drop in 10 years is incredibly huge, especially when you consider how much people rely on church for social interaction not just religion.

So I dont like the misleading bargraph, but I think the average Fox News viewer is too dumb to grasp the real magnitude with an accurate bar graph

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kevwaffles
09/28/21 3:51:24 PM
#169:


Ben Garrison supposedly has a rough case of Covid, refuses to go to the hospital, and is treating it with invermectin and beet juice.

So he might be dead soon.
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masterplum
09/28/21 4:22:07 PM
#170:


kevwaffles posted...
Ben Garrison supposedly has a rough case of Covid, refuses to go to the hospital, and is treating it with invermectin and beet juice.

So he might be dead soon.




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BlAcK TuRtLe
09/28/21 4:39:32 PM
#171:


Honest question for the people in this topic that have zero empathy for anti-vaxxers getting sick: do you also share the same lack of empathy for habitual drug addicts? The logic in that decision applies to both anti-vaxxers and drug addicts, they both made an active decision which resulted in their situation, they both had ample opportunity to fix the problem, they both show a startling disregard for the people they are alienating in their lives, they both tie up public health resources that are much better served helping people that are sick.

I've been "lectured" for having the opinion that drug addicts brought it upon themselves and should suffer the consequences, so it is funny seeing those same people having the same opinion for anti-vaxxers here.

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ChaosTonyV4
09/28/21 4:41:22 PM
#172:


Is there a physical and mental addiction to not being vaccinated that Im unaware of?

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red13n
09/28/21 4:42:30 PM
#173:


Addiction is not the same as stupidity/peddling harmful misinformation.

But I also have less empathy for drug addicts dying than I do for say some random person dying in a car accident through no fault of their own. Amount of empathy can vary on a case by case basis of course.

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BlAcK TuRtLe
09/28/21 4:48:39 PM
#174:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Is there a physical and mental addiction to not being vaccinated that Im unaware of?
I'm sure at some level the anti-vaxx crowd are addicted to the sense of belonging and dopamine hit when they "own the libs". The fact that drugs are addictive doesn't make the initial choice to do them any less stupid. People go into "trying heroin" for the first time fully aware that it is bad for you and very addictive.

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BlAcK TuRtLe
09/28/21 4:49:39 PM
#175:


red13n posted...
Addiction is not the same as stupidity/peddling harmful misinformation.

But I also have less empathy for drug addicts dying than I do for say some random person dying in a car accident through no fault of their own. Amount of empathy can vary on a case by case basis of course.
I dunno, I've seen lots of people on the internet talking about how all drugs should be legalized, using completely fabricated and debunked "studies"

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HashtagSEP
09/28/21 4:50:14 PM
#176:


We all agreed to just ignore BT when he makes really, really dumb posts, right?

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DoomTheGyarados
09/28/21 4:50:41 PM
#177:


BlAcK TuRtLe posted...
I dunno, I've seen lots of people on the internet talking about how all drugs should be legalized, using completely fabricated and debunked "studies"

Drugs should be legal. Like drinking is. Just because you can have a problem with a substance doesn't mean it needs to be illegal. Legalize it, tax it, use money from enforcement on other things.

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DoomTheGyarados
09/28/21 4:50:56 PM
#178:


HashtagSEP posted...
We all agreed to just ignore BT when he makes really, really dumb posts, right?

Nah. Not the board 8 way

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Xeybozn
09/28/21 5:04:09 PM
#179:


HashtagSEP posted...
We all agreed to just ignore BT when he makes really, really dumb posts, right?

But doesn't that mean ignoring all his posts?
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LordoftheMorons
09/28/21 5:09:20 PM
#180:


So uh I guess it's looking like there's a non-negligible chance that Congress fails to extend the debt ceiling in time to avoid default, so that's super awesome

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Mr Lasastryke
09/28/21 5:44:05 PM
#181:


kevwaffles posted...
Ben Garrison supposedly has a rough case of Covid, refuses to go to the hospital, and is treating it with invermectin and beet juice.

So he might be dead soon.

his final cartoon: a self-portrait of him drinking beet juice looking super muscular and healthy

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masterplum
09/28/21 5:45:09 PM
#182:


LordoftheMorons posted...
So uh I guess it's looking like there's a non-negligible chance that Congress fails to extend the debt ceiling in time to avoid default, so that's super awesome

This has happened at least a dozen times now.

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Xeybozn
09/28/21 5:46:13 PM
#183:


So when they say the government will run out of money by Oct. 18th (or whenever), does that mean we're literally forced to default on the debt or could they buy some extra time by prioritizing debt payments over everything else? Forcing the government to shut down would suck (especially for people who usually aren't hit by shutdowns), but maybe we can avoid the financial meltdown with another couple weeks?
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Leafeon13N
09/28/21 5:47:06 PM
#184:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Drugs should be legal. Like drinking is. Just because you can have a problem with a substance doesn't mean it needs to be illegal. Legalize it, tax it, use money from enforcement on other things.
We let the tobacco industry do this for a long time. This is not a net gain to society.
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Leafeon13N
09/28/21 5:48:31 PM
#185:


Xeybozn posted...
So when they say the government will run out of money by Oct. 18th (or whenever), does that mean we're literally forced to default on the debt or could they buy some extra time by prioritizing debt payments over everything
The money is already spent. Cant reallocate money you already used.
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DoomTheGyarados
09/28/21 5:48:45 PM
#186:


Leafeon13N posted...
We let the tobacco industry do this for a long time. This is not a net gain to society.

Yes, it is. Also cigarettes are still legal so I mean... what

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Leafeon13N
09/28/21 5:50:54 PM
#187:


DoomTheGyarados posted...


Yes, it is. Also cigarettes are still legal so I mean... what
They are heavily regulated, wouldn't be legal if they weren't already ingrained into society.
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Leafeon13N
09/28/21 5:52:51 PM
#188:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Yes, it is. Also cigarettes are still legal so I mean... what
There are drugs more addictive, more harmful than cigarettes out there.

Let the opioid industry operate like the tobacco industry and the cost to society would be even worse than it already is on that front.
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KamikazePotato
09/28/21 5:53:43 PM
#189:


Normalizing stuff like cocaine and heroin would be a social long-term disaster.

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LordoftheMorons
09/28/21 5:54:03 PM
#190:


masterplum posted...
This has happened at least a dozen times now.
Actually defaulting? No it hasnt, and it would be disastrous (much moreso than the shutdowns which have happened several times in recent years).

If you mean the other side not helping to pass the debt ceiling increase then yeah, though I dont recall the minority party sustaining a filibuster on it.

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masterplum
09/28/21 5:54:03 PM
#191:


I ignored black turtle a while ago for some reason I dont remember but I incognitoed to see what his point was.

The day drug addicts start posting on Facebook mocking everyone not a drug addict is the day Im cool with them dying too

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masterplum
09/28/21 5:55:21 PM
#192:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Actually defaulting? No it hasnt, and it would be disastrous (much moreso than the shutdowns which have happened several times in recent years).

If you mean the other side not helping to pass the debt ceiling increase then yeah, though I dont recall the minority party sustaining a filibuster on it.

I meant the whole news cycle of WILL THE DEBT CEILING BE INCREASED?!?

I mean it might be an issue this time, but we have seen the news speculate it wouldnt happen a dozen times now. Ill worry when we are hours away not weeks away

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LordoftheMorons
09/28/21 5:56:45 PM
#193:


Xeybozn posted...
So when they say the government will run out of money by Oct. 18th (or whenever), does that mean we're literally forced to default on the debt or could they buy some extra time by prioritizing debt payments over everything else? Forcing the government to shut down would suck (especially for people who usually aren't hit by shutdowns), but maybe we can avoid the financial meltdown with another couple weeks?
My understanding is that theyre already doing whatever black magic they can to avoid defaulting on any debt and the 18th is the current estimate for when that wiggle room runs out (also afaik theres considerable uncertainty about the exact time they will default)

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Xeybozn
09/28/21 5:59:20 PM
#194:


Leafeon13N posted...
The money is already spent. Cant reallocate money you already used.

Yes, but they could reallocate money that hasn't been spent. There's always tax money coming in, more of which could be used to pay bond holders (and prevent default) by not spending it on other things. I'm wondering if that's accounted for in time estimates for when the US defaults.
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LordoftheMorons
09/28/21 6:00:36 PM
#195:


masterplum posted...
I meant the whole news cycle of WILL THE DEBT CEILING BE INCREASED?!?

I mean it might be an issue this time, but we have seen the news speculate it wouldnt happen a dozen times now. Ill worry when we are hours away not weeks away
I mean yeah I think its more likely than not that they do suspend the debt ceiling in time again, but even a small risk of default is a huge deal. Basically Mitch appears to be trying to force Dems to use up a reconciliation bill on the debt ceiling, except the reconciliation bill is a whole clusterfuck of infighting between centrists and progressives as is, which will probably not be figured out in time. And then from what I understand even adding the debt ceiling increase to the bill will take quite a bit of floor time that they may not have.

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DoomTheGyarados
09/28/21 6:03:51 PM
#196:


Leafeon13N posted...
There are drugs more addictive, more harmful than cigarettes out there.

Let the opioid industry operate like the tobacco industry and the cost to society would be even worse than it already is on that front.

They already do. Now if you want to say all laws would be against companies rather than people I am very much down for that. But acting as if these drugs being illegal to possess is good for society is just not true.


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Leafeon13N
09/28/21 6:38:54 PM
#197:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
They already do

No, they dont.
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DoomTheGyarados
09/28/21 6:41:49 PM
#198:


Leafeon13N posted...
No, they dont.

Either way, I am very much for laws restricting this side, I am generally talking about possession level offenses when I think about drug laws.

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Leafeon13N
09/28/21 6:44:04 PM
#199:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Either way, I am very much for laws restricting this side, I am generally talking about possession level offenses when I think about drug laws.
These should be modified to help rather than punish, yes.

But blanket legalization like weed/tobacco should not be the terminology here.
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DoomTheGyarados
09/28/21 6:45:31 PM
#200:


Leafeon13N posted...
These should be modified to help rather than punish, yes.

But blanket legalization like weed/tobacco should not be the terminology here.

Would the term decriminalized on a possession level be more fitting? You know how I am, I machine gun most of my posts in this topic because I am largely dead inside.

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