Poll of the Day > Outrage after Trans MMA Fighter and former US Veteran DEFEATS Female Opponent!!!

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 2:46:28 PM
#52:


Some dude got ratio'd on twitter because he thought the trans fighter was the other fighter. lol

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 2:51:51 PM
#53:


I'm not tryna score woke points. It's been over 24 hours and nobody posted these apparent weighted 'win ratios' that trans fighters/athletes apparently possess. Everyone freaks out when trans fighters win, then everyone whistles and turns away when they lose. They don't have unfair win ratios. The olympic weightlifter everyone kept shitting themselves over did horrible this past year. I somewhat understand the 'debate' surrounding this - it's controversial and there's a lot of inflammatory information put out there (thanks Joe "Karen" Rogan). I don't want to insult the people I'm discussing this with, but I don't see the same courtesy extended, which sucks. I have trans friends, and I really fail to see how excluding them from sports accomplishes anything. The points people put forth make sense, but never seem to pan out across the board.

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 2:59:09 PM
#54:


Notschmendrake posted...


just posting again for tall the apologists who keep ignoring it.

this is the person who beat a woman in a combat sport. this is the person who grew up biologically male, and gained the enhanced grip strength, upper body strength and every other advantage that goes along with it, who then stepped into the female class and won a "victory".

there is no argument to be made. if you approve of this, you hate anyone who was born biologically female, and you are just a straight up shitty person.

but please, all of you men continue to tout this as some victory for trans rights as if you arent just using it as yet another excuse to further oppress women.

pathetic.
'there is no argument'. not even a discussion? I hate all biologically female individuals? Want me to call my sister up? The majority of my close friends?

Also, at least be fair and post a before and after shot. Estrogen does a lot to the body.



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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 3:00:09 PM
#55:


oh, and lol, we're upset over a win ratio of

1-0-0

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 3:01:21 PM
#56:


I have enhanced grip strength over all women? Is it from holding my penis? What if a woman holds a cylinder more often than me? FUCK

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 3:02:27 PM
#57:


also, I'm not trying to make fun, I'm just trying to lighten the dour mood

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VeeVees
09/15/21 3:09:17 PM
#58:


Tbh, I wouldn't mind if fights are mixed gender and everyone is allowed to take all the performance enhancing drug they want.

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 3:31:12 PM
#59:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Radfems vs Biological Denialists

whoever wins...
We lose
seems it's 'biologists' that study gender, what are radfems and biological denialists? internet/cable news lingo?

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 3:36:19 PM
#60:


https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2021.608328/full

https://www.onlinepsychologydegree.info/faq/how-does-science-explain-transgenderism/

idk denying that trans people feel the way they do is odd. I suppose a lot of the 'anti-trans' folks don't deny that those people feel that way, but that it is wrong for them to feel this way. The Ben Shabibo POV. The science does not support this POV, that you can force these individuals into a comfortable relationship with their born assigned gender. Similarly to how the science does not support conversion therapy working for homosexual folks. The majority of science in the past two decades (and preceding that, but much has been suppressed/ignored) has pointed to transition as beneficial for the individual. Why do those who disagree refute this science and point to their outlier 'science'?

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 3:43:17 PM
#61:


I mean, we're dealing with several shades of anti-trans in this topic. There's people refuting their entire identity. Then there's the more middling level of disagreeing with their inclusion in sports in the gender category they have transitioned to. I can understand this being a more understandable argument, but I still refute it. Certain standards are kept within professional sports. I mean, even these 'standards' don't always make sense - some biological females fall outside their required levels for testosterone and have to medicate to change it. I support trans people in sports, they have to jump through so many hoops anyhow.

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2019/11/15/iaaf-regulations-for-female-athletes-with-high-testosterone/

Then people conflate highschool sports with professional sports...it really sucks that kids are getting banned from sports. That's just crap. I mean, frankly, parents are upset when their jock-ass kid gets beat when that kid probably isn't going anywhere anyhow. It's all a little...wild. It all doesn't line up across the board either - biological girls have won certain sports against boys. It's all up in the damn air lol. Everyone's got Rogan-brain unfortunately.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51666728

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EvilMegas
09/15/21 3:46:49 PM
#62:


No one forced the French fighter to compete, if she felt it was an unfair advantage she could've backed out.


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Nichtcrawler X
09/15/21 3:50:04 PM
#63:


EvilMegas posted...
No one forced the French fighter to compete, if she felt it was an unfair advantage she could've backed out.

That could be deemed rather unsportsmanlike. A Judoka got banned for 10 years from refusing to do one match during the Olympics.

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adjl
09/15/21 3:56:32 PM
#65:


ReturnOfFa posted...
The points people put forth make sense, but never seem to pan out across the board.

This is really the central issue here. Yes, it makes sense that there would be problems in theory, and if you'd presented that theory to me before data were available, I would have completely agreed. But now data is available, and that theory falls flat in the face of actual evidence. Evidently, for all the concerns about "boy puberty" and whatnot, HRT does enough to harm athletic prowess that trans people are not measurably outperforming their cis counterparts. That is the empirical reality of the situation.

EvilMegas posted...
No one forced the French fighter to compete, if she felt it was an unfair advantage she could've backed out.

Yeah, I suppose I should have specifically called out that particular obvious falsehood from totally-not-schmen's post:
Notschmendrake posted...
[cis female athletes'] inability to denounce or decline the fight without significant harm to their careers
Full Throttle posted...
[MacLaughlin] noted it was a "nightmare" finding an opponent for the fight

Many other fighters did decline the fight, so unless you've heard more than I have about all of those people being forced into retirement (which is not impossible. I'll keep an open mind) whatever fears you have about their careers being significantly harmed are apparently completely baseless.

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EvilMegas
09/15/21 3:58:56 PM
#66:


Nichtcrawler X posted...
That could be deemed rather unsportsmanlike. A Judoka got banned for 10 years from refusing to do one match during the Olympics.
That's during the Olympics and I'm pretty sure it had way more implications than they just didn't wanna compete because that felt the opposition had an unfair advantage.

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wwinterj25
09/15/21 4:00:00 PM
#67:


MMA has weight classes and some woman can be stronger than some men and visa versa. I don't have any major issue with this due to that. I don't watch MMA though.

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Nichtcrawler X
09/15/21 4:01:19 PM
#68:


EvilMegas posted...
That's during the Olympics and I'm pretty sure it had way more implications than they just didn't wanna compete because that felt the opposition had an unfair advantage.

It was for political reasons. Not wanting to face someone, because you think they are the wrong gender, could also be construed as political.

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Cacciato
09/15/21 4:02:03 PM
#69:


ReturnOfFa posted...
oh, and here's the ratio we're talking about with Alana McLaughlin

1-0-0
This just shows more of a lack of knowledge regarding the sport, and I dont mean that insultingly. UFC constantly gets treated as a generic brand, but youll notice that with big name stars they list their UFC Win-Loss. Thats because they dont even bother listing their fighting records that led to them being signed with larger promoters and thats what this individual is trying to do: climb the ranks to make it to a larger promotion league.
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Cacciato
09/15/21 4:03:16 PM
#70:


EvilMegas posted...
That's during the Olympics and I'm pretty sure it had way more implications than they just didn't wanna compete because that felt the opposition had an unfair advantage.
Not to mention theres a huge difference between something like the Olympics and something like Dana Whites UFC. He wont be possess and ban you because of unsportsmanslike behavior, hell fuck you over for costing him viewers.
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Nichtcrawler X
09/15/21 4:07:02 PM
#71:


Obviously I have no idea about specific sport competitions in the US and their perceived prestige. Or the ideas/politics of the woman running it.

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EvilMegas
09/15/21 4:08:18 PM
#72:


Nichtcrawler X posted...
It was for political reasons. Not wanting to face someone, because you think they are the wrong gender, could also be construed as political.
Not really, the is at least "some" merit to not wanting to fight a transgendered opponent.
Fights are turned down often for many miniscule reasons. Refusing a low ranked debut match won't break anyone's career.

That being said; I'm for transgendered people competing in whatever gendered sport they identify as and think it's laughable that some people think people transition just to win at sports.

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ReturnOfFa
09/15/21 4:15:48 PM
#73:


Cacciato posted...
This just shows more of a lack of knowledge regarding the sport, and I dont mean that insultingly. UFC constantly gets treated as a generic brand, but youll notice that with big name stars they list their UFC Win-Loss. Thats because they dont even bother listing their fighting records that led to them being signed with larger promoters and thats what this individual is trying to do: climb the ranks to make it to a larger promotion league.
Well, my point is pretty simple, just that it's literally her first match, so I'm unsure of what people are getting upset about, when 'unfair win ratios' were mentioned. Thanks for the further info though.

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deoxxys
09/16/21 1:50:22 AM
#74:


So like duck bears question was do you have a beef with this? So is he asking if we have beef that there was an outrage or if we have beef with trans women competing in sports?

I guess I don't really have a beef per se because I don't watch sports so I really don't have a reason to care too much. However knowing that biological men have advantageous skeletal structures, higher red blood cell count and higher lung capacity makes me say this isn't really fair to biological women.

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adjl
09/16/21 2:03:08 PM
#75:


ReturnOfFa posted...
Well, my point is pretty simple, just that it's literally her first match, so I'm unsure of what people are getting upset about, when 'unfair win ratios' were mentioned. Thanks for the further info though.

I think his point is that McLaughlin has fighting records from her pre-UFC experience which could be referenced, so it's not entirely accurate to say "she only has one fight you can't gauge a win rate from that." That's a little harder to interpret meaningfully because non-UFC leagues are less consistent and most UFC fighters will have had exceptionally high win rates in their pre-UFC days (otherwise they wouldn't have qualified), but it still would probably be worthwhile to look at her pre-UFC stats.

Either way, it sounds like there's more data available than it seems. That might be worth dredging up, though I wouldn't know where to start with that.

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Notschmendrake
09/16/21 4:28:01 PM
#76:


ReturnOfFa posted...
'there is no argument'. not even a discussion? I hate all biologically female individuals? Want me to call my sister up? The majority of my close friends?

Also, at least be fair and post a before and after shot. Estrogen does a lot to the body.


I'm not racist, i have a black friend!

pfffft, piss off sexist.

also, looking at the body on one photo and the body on the other, the only noticable difference is a pair of breasts. muscle structure is still there. stop pretending.
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ASlaveObeys
09/16/21 5:49:03 PM
#77:


Honestly, I watched the fight, and she isn't going to win very long like that. Yes, this happened with... Fallon Fox or whatever her name was too. She won a few low level shows (not knocking it, I'm in the low level shows) and then got smashed up by even midteir fighters.
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adjl
09/16/21 6:10:45 PM
#78:


ASlaveObeys posted...
Honestly, I watched the fight, and she isn't going to win very long like that. Yes, this happened with... Fallon Fox or whatever her name was too. She won a few low level shows (not knocking it, I'm in the low level shows) and then got smashed up by even midteir fighters.

But what about that innate biological advantage? Fractured skulls? Outright cheating to drive real women out of sports? Surely I can't have gotten so outraged over something that isn't actually a problem in the real world, right?

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helIy
09/16/21 6:17:23 PM
#79:


bulbinking posted...
I told you to stop with radical media.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/theory-knowledge/201601/the-is-psychology-science-debate
i think i'm going to side with the edu link, and not some biased blog post lmao.

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Cantttouch
09/16/21 6:48:47 PM
#80:


adjl posted...
Remember kids: Trans athletes are only allowed to compete with their target gender if they never win.

Or they could just compete against their own sex? No one ever said they weren't allowed to compete at all.
You can't simply discard biology just because it would hurt someone's feelings. Also I'm legally a genderfluid penguin cause that's what I identify as today

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helIy
09/16/21 7:09:18 PM
#81:


these topics always let me tag users with the bigot flair

it's nice to know who's a piece of shit tbh

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adjl
09/16/21 7:35:46 PM
#82:


Cantttouch posted...
Or they could just compete against their own sex?

Why?

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Red04
09/16/21 8:48:27 PM
#83:


I dont know what happened but I sure upset people here.
Now, Ryan the handsome hunk pictured here:
was born a man. His biologically developed body, genitalia, bone density and muscle fibres speaks for itself.
Look at the picture, spare me your unnecessary feelings or disguised harassment and tell me if thats a male or a female.
A person may feel like he or she belongs to a different sex, and thats fine, but its already predetermined, and no medical equipment can, and Ill be clear here: fully, that is to a full extent, completely and with no trace left, defy nature and literally transform a man into a woman down to the bone marrow.
It may work in fiction and in the far future, but right now were limited to present-day extensive surgical slicing and reshaping, different hormone therapies and artificial breast augmentation amongst other complex procedures.

Furthermore, no hurt feelings (with emphasis on feelings), report-spamming, baseless accusations about hate-speech or transphobia without any proof, and even dictatorial-like warnings and of banning can change this fact.

I dont hate Alana nor have my posts implied any sort of hate towards her or trans people (not sure if people have forgotten the meaning of hate considering how misused the term is) but to the fact that a fighting organisation with, again our present-day medical equipment, cleared Alana to fight against women.
We have divided male and female athletes since the the beginning of sports history. Should we now throw away well-established, undeniable scientific facts that women and men are physically different? Should we ignore the possibility that a man who- to an extent- has undergone surgical transformation into a woman, can cause serious excessive damage to women the same way men physically abuse women in their home? Because its not the other way around is it?
This fighting event was rushed and poorly-decided to say the least. I hope the 38-year old Alana fares well, not in MMA, but with her physical and mental health.

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IronBornCorps
09/16/21 9:22:09 PM
#84:


O look, PotD has a TERF now
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Krow_Incarnate
09/16/21 10:34:24 PM
#85:


DANTE20XX posted...
You guys must be brainwashed to somehow believing that men and women's bodies don't develop muscles differently, trans in their mind or not.
Ding ding ding

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Krow_Incarnate
09/16/21 10:36:15 PM
#86:


adjl posted...
Why?
Since we're asking stupid questions, why have weight divisions either?

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ReturnOfFa
09/16/21 10:48:35 PM
#87:


Krow_Incarnate posted...
Since we're asking stupid questions, why have weight divisions either?
uhh I think weight divisions make more sense than keeping trans people out of sports lol

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Mead
09/16/21 10:51:13 PM
#88:


Krow_Incarnate posted...
Ding ding ding

Ill ask again, who in this topic claimed such a thing?

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ReturnOfFa
09/16/21 11:32:05 PM
#89:


Notschmendrake posted...
I'm not racist, i have a black friend!

pfffft, piss off sexist.

also, looking at the body on one photo and the body on the other, the only noticable difference is a pair of breasts. muscle structure is still there. stop pretending.
i'm sexist because i support trans people. aight! welcome to nonsense-time.

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ReturnOfFa
09/16/21 11:33:23 PM
#90:


lol at calling aggregate scientific data 'radical media' as opposed to calling literal radicals running their own websites 'radical media'

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Krow_Incarnate
09/16/21 11:49:48 PM
#91:


ReturnOfFa posted...
uhh I think weight divisions make more sense than keeping trans people out of sports lol
No one said anything about keeping them out of sports.

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ReturnOfFa
09/16/21 11:52:34 PM
#92:


Krow_Incarnate posted...
No one said anything about keeping them out of sports.
Plenty of people have. Maybe you're a 'separate division' person, but other people are definitely wanting to keep them out of sports, or in the case of others having a go at me, deny that trans people should exist at all.

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Mead
09/17/21 12:05:02 AM
#93:


Krow_Incarnate posted...
No one said anything about keeping them out of sports.

yeah theres just a ton of overt transphobia and people insisting on stupid shit like claiming that transgenderism isnt real

that shit isnt ok and seriously fuck anyone that abides it

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bulbinking
09/17/21 1:25:14 AM
#94:


ReturnOfFa posted...
lol at calling aggregate scientific data 'radical media' as opposed to calling literal radicals running their own websites 'radical media'

Nothing posted to support trans theory held any objective facts outside of mentioning intersex individuals who are a genetic anomaly and not a mental affliction.

People itt are trying to use philosophy to alter scientific definitions which is abhorrent.

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ReturnOfFa
09/17/21 1:44:41 AM
#95:


bulbinking posted...
Nothing posted to support trans theory held any objective facts outside of mentioning intersex individuals who are a genetic anomaly and not a mental affliction.

People itt are trying to use philosophy to alter scientific definitions which is abhorrent.
What do people 'itt' matter, I posted links to giant amounts of scientific data that does not lie in the 'philosophy' realm of thought.

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helIy
09/17/21 1:47:57 AM
#96:


bulbinking posted...
People itt are trying to use philosophy to alter scientific definitions which is abhorrent.
you

that's you doing that though

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bulbinking
09/17/21 1:51:31 AM
#97:


ReturnOfFa posted...
What do people 'itt' matter, I posted links to giant amounts of scientific data that does not lie in the 'philosophy' realm of thought.

What did you post that proves men and women are born in eachothers bodies?

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Mead
09/17/21 2:11:48 AM
#98:


The shit bulb is peddling is the same BS they used to say about gay people. Just mark and block his ignorant ass. Hes already proven himself bigoted in more ways than one on this board.

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Mead
09/17/21 2:16:16 AM
#99:


Being transphobic in any way is an instant block from me. So sick of that shit.

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ReturnOfFa
09/17/21 3:15:21 AM
#100:


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helIy
09/17/21 3:26:22 AM
#101:


bulbinking posted...
No.
it doesn't matter how many times you say it

it wont change the fact that you're the one trying to use your personal philosophy to change a scientific fact.

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Nichtcrawler X
09/17/21 6:37:33 AM
#102:


bulbinking posted...
What did you post that proves men and women are born in eachothers bodies?

That is a figure of speech to help explain it to people like you, it is not meant to be taken literally.

People are (obviously) born in their own body, but that body can still conflict with what they feel.

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