Poll of the Day > So I can be abortion bounty hunter in Texas?

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St_Kevin
09/13/21 1:31:11 PM
#1:


Can I run up to a pregnant woman and scream "SHE'S HAVING AN ABORTION!" and collect $10,000?

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PunishedOni
09/13/21 1:33:33 PM
#2:


you don't have standing

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St_Kevin
09/13/21 1:34:31 PM
#3:


But do I have sitting?

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PunishedOni
09/13/21 1:35:06 PM
#4:


what's sitting

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JOExHIGASHI
09/13/21 2:00:36 PM
#5:


PunishedOni posted...
what's sitting
When your butt is on something like a chair or ball

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Conner4REAL
09/13/21 2:04:13 PM
#6:


You will expend money and at the end of the day never collect a cent.

its also largely possible a court will eventually punish you And make you responsible for the legal fees and costs of the other party.

on its face the law is unconstitutional. If you get a judge with even a modicum of sense or civil outrage at this attempted end run around the constitution then you could end up with a ton of headaches.

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papercup
09/13/21 2:15:58 PM
#7:


Uh I don't have anyone blocked, and there are no "this message was deleted" spots. Where are messages 2, 4 and 5

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ParanoidObsessive
09/13/21 2:21:31 PM
#8:


Conner4REAL posted...
its also largely possible a court will eventually punish you

It'd be ironic if he ran up to a pregnant woman screaming, and the shock causes her to miscarry and he gets charged with fetal homicide (and yes, that's a real crime, and Texas acknowledges it).
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ParanoidObsessive
09/13/21 2:22:43 PM
#9:


papercup posted...
Uh I don't have anyone blocked, and there are no "this message was deleted" spots. Where are messages 2, 4 and 5

PunishedOni and JOExHIGASHI. If you don't have them on ignore or block, they probably blocked you.
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__starsnostars
09/13/21 2:31:13 PM
#10:


Conner4REAL posted...
its also largely possible a court will eventually punish you And make you responsible for the legal fees and costs of the other party.

As the law is written, he would incur no legal expenses, not that a judge would ever hear this case in the first place.

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papercup
09/13/21 2:32:50 PM
#11:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
PunishedOni and JOExHIGASHI. If you don't have them on ignore or block, they probably blocked you.

Oh huh I didn't know that blocking people stops them from seeing your posts

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#12
Post #12 was unavailable or deleted.
papercup
09/13/21 2:55:00 PM
#13:


Zangulus posted...
Thats the point of Block versus ignore. Ignore means you dont see theirs. Add block and they no longer see yours as well.

Yeah I've never blocked or ignored anyone so I had no idea there was a difference

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Zeus
09/13/21 3:51:07 PM
#14:


Conner4REAL posted...
You will expend money and at the end of the day never collect a cent.

its also largely possible a court will eventually punish you And make you responsible for the legal fees and costs of the other party.

on its face the law is unconstitutional. If you get a judge with even a modicum of sense or civil outrage at this attempted end run around the constitution then you could end up with a ton of headaches.

So Conner, who advocated murdering the mentally ill just a few days ago, is also pretending to be a Constitutional lawyer.

...wanted to post a screencap of Conner's latest fuckery (well, second-latest now), but the topic is gone. Did the mods delete Ducky's topic where a sheriff talked about wanting to straight-up murder suspects? That was a recent topic, wasn't it?

ParanoidObsessive posted...
PunishedOni and JOExHIGASHI. If you don't have them on ignore or block, they probably blocked you.

Which, in Oni's case, is meaningless since he blocks like half the board.

papercup posted...
Oh huh I didn't know that blocking people stops them from seeing your posts

Ignore = You don't see peoples' posts
Block = They can't see your posts, and you don't see theirs

And the new block rules apply to quotes, whereas the old system just applied ignores to quotes.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
It'd be ironic if he ran up to a pregnant woman screaming, and the shock causes her to miscarry and he gets charged with fetal homicide (and yes, that's a real crime, and Texas acknowledges it).

To be fair, least in Texas that's warranted. It's worse in states where abortion is legal almost right until childbirth (suggesting that unborn children aren't people) yet they still acknowledge unborn children as victims in other cases. It should be all-or-nothing.


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Cacciato
09/13/21 4:23:51 PM
#15:


papercup posted...
Yeah I've never blocked or ignored anyone so I had no idea there was a difference
PunishedOni probably has you blocked, so when Joe quotes them you cant see his post either. I think thats relatively new.
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ParanoidObsessive
09/14/21 12:29:39 AM
#16:


Zeus posted...
It's worse in states where abortion is legal almost right until childbirth (suggesting that unborn children aren't people) yet they still acknowledge unborn children as victims in other cases. It should be all-or-nothing.

It's arguably the difference between a woman being allowed to dictate the fate of her children in potentiae versus an outsider inflicting that decision on you against your will by violent means.

Or to put it another way, it's the difference between saying abortion should be illegal, yet still making it illegal for me to go around trying to abort all of my neighbor's kids with my secret portable abortion kit. I mean, the theoretical kit, that I certainly don't keep hidden beneath a floorboard along with my plague doctor disguise. Because I would never do such a thing and you certainly can't prove otherwise.

But yeah, all-or-nothing legal systems almost universally suck, because context is a thing and it absolutely needs to be taken into account by any fair or just system.
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Revelation34
09/14/21 12:55:36 AM
#17:


How much would it cost to bus anybody wanting an abortion to New Mexico or Oklahoma from Texas?
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Zeus
09/14/21 8:00:44 PM
#18:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
It's arguably the difference between a woman being allowed to dictate the fate of her children in potentiae versus an outsider inflicting that decision on you against your will by violent means.

Or to put it another way, it's the difference between saying abortion should be illegal, yet still making it illegal for me to go around trying to abort all of my neighbor's kids with my secret portable abortion kit. I mean, the theoretical kit, that I certainly don't keep hidden beneath a floorboard along with my plague doctor disguise. Because I would never do such a thing and you certainly can't prove otherwise.

But yeah, all-or-nothing legal systems almost universally suck, because context is a thing and it absolutely needs to be taken into account by any fair or just system.

Which might be an argument if not for the fact it involves a third-party. You either acknowledge that the child is a person or you don't. It's not 2/5s or 3/5s of a person. The idea behind viewing it as a murder is that the child is a person, it has nothing to do with the mother's ownership.

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Lobomoon
09/14/21 8:13:37 PM
#19:


Kevin The Abortion Ranger.

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adjl
09/14/21 9:04:14 PM
#20:


Zeus posted...
Which might be an argument if not for the fact it involves a third-party. You either acknowledge that the child is a person or you don't. It's not 2/5s or 3/5s of a person. The idea behind viewing it as a murder is that the child is a person, it has nothing to do with the mother's ownership.

Really, murder is bad for two reasons: It deprives the victim of their ability to live their desired life (oversimplifying, but that's the gist of it), and it causes great sorrow and hardship for everyone that cares for and/or depends upon the victim.

In the case of fetal homicide/abortion, the victim doesn't particularly have a desired life (being barely conscious and whatnot), so the only consideration is the loss that would be suffered by those that care for it. Before birth, that's pretty much just the parents, so in the case of abortion, they consent to that loss and no actual harm is done (again, oversimplifying it, abortion's generally a pretty emotional experience). In the case of fetal homicide, they don't consent to that loss, so harm is done.

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JOExHIGASHI
09/14/21 9:11:08 PM
#21:


papercup posted...
Yeah I've never blocked or ignored anyone so I had no idea there was a difference
I just checked my list and I don't have you on block or ignore.

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Zeus
09/21/21 3:21:27 PM
#22:


adjl posted...
Really, murder is bad for two reasons: It deprives the victim of their ability to live their desired life (oversimplifying, but that's the gist of it), and it causes great sorrow and hardship for everyone that cares for and/or depends upon the victim.

...somehow one of those reasons seems far worse than the other. Being overly concerned about how somebody's death affects everybody else is kinda narcissistic sociopathic behavior. The concern should almost exclusively be around the deceased.

adjl posted...
In the case of fetal homicide/abortion, the victim doesn't particularly have a desired life (being barely conscious and whatnot), so the only consideration is the loss that would be suffered by those that care for it. Before birth, that's pretty much just the parents, so in the case of abortion, they consent to that loss and no actual harm is done (again, oversimplifying it, abortion's generally a pretty emotional experience). In the case of fetal homicide, they don't consent to that loss, so harm is done.

Which was also the historical argument for infanticide and child slaying. The idea that children's lives somehow don't have value is deeply disturbing. And, as a society, we already make some highly questionable choices where a parent's comfort is prioritized over a child's safety and well-being. It's like there's a disconnect where people don't realize that those same children either grow up to become adults or might have grown up to become adults

And even the claim that it's about protecting women's rights kinda rings hollow when female children are the primary victim of these practices, or are hurt at a 50/50 rate when we decide -- for instance -- that a mother's right to over-drink is more important than a baby not being born with fetal alcohol syndrome (and let bartenders, whose job it is to prevent clients from self-abuse, get sued for discrimination in cases like those)

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Revelation34
09/21/21 4:08:57 PM
#23:


Zeus posted...
when female children are the primary victim of these practices


It would be impossible for any female children to get aborted.
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adjl
09/21/21 9:02:41 PM
#24:


Zeus posted...
...somehow one of those reasons seems far worse than the other. Being overly concerned about how somebody's death affects everybody else is kinda narcissistic sociopathic behavior. The concern should almost exclusively be around the deceased.

The dead don't care about being dead. The living generally don't want to die, but once they actually do, they stop suffering (unless you want to make a whole bunch of presumptions about what sort of afterlife they'll face, which isn't much of a basis for anything). Everyone they leave behind, however, does suffer. If anything, ignoring the effects somebody's death has on those around them is the sociopathic behaviour, not acknowledging it.

Zeus posted...
Which was also the historical argument for infanticide and child slaying.

It is, but in those cases, there's no benefit to killing the child over seeking other alternatives. The pregnancy's already done and the kid's already been delivered. If the parents don't want it, they have the option of giving it up for adoption without incurring any additional hardship. By contrast, abortion spares the mother the suffering and danger of pregnancy and childbirth, which she would otherwise have to go through to access any alternative options. It's a lot easier to justify killing the kid when there's actual benefit involved, even without getting into questions of how much more conscious/sentient (and therefore deserving of having their experiences and desires considered) a newborn is than a pre-viable fetus.

Zeus posted...
And even the claim that it's about protecting women's rights kinda rings hollow when female children are the primary victim of these practices,

"We must force women to involuntarily carry pregnancies for the sake of women's rights!" really doesn't have any merit to it. Yes, it is a problem that female children tend to be aborted more frequently (though it's not like there's much by way of meaningful differences at that gestational age), but that's a separate cultural issue that should not be "solved" by taking away other women's rights to make it more inconvenient to act upon.

Zeus posted...
or are hurt at a 50/50 rate

In other words, not treated any differently on the basis of their sex. That's generally how things should be.

Zeus posted...
when we decide -- for instance -- that a mother's right to over-drink is more important than a baby not being born with fetal alcohol syndrome (and let bartenders, whose job it is to prevent clients from self-abuse, get sued for discrimination in cases like those)

Realistically, by the time most women are far enough along in their pregnancy for a bartender to be reliably able to tell that they're pregnant, alcohol isn't going to be doing much to their baby. The vast majority of teratogenic activity - alcohol included - happens in the first trimester, sometimes before the mother even knows she's pregnant. FASD is bad and all, but trying to solve it policing women isn't going to help. Instead, there needs to be a focus on reducing unexpected/unwanted pregnancies, including birth control subsidies, improved sex ed, and access to abortions (since no preventative measure is going to be perfect).

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