Board 8 > Final Fantasy Record Keeper Topic 53: lolbio... is actually good now?!

(+) Yeah! (+)

His Awakening is one of the strongest damage awakenings in the game really. Auto dualcast with an additional 50% to cast a third time is really good.

Like his sync is just your garden variety sync and I think that's why a lot of people don't get how strong he is. His sync vs Rem's sync, Rem stomps him. But if you just use the sync as a source of infusion and use the awakening as your main damage that's where his real potential comes out. I do think Rem will win out overall assuming equal resources for each but it's closer than people will claim, and there are situations like labyrinth autobattling where Minwu is better because his damage is more frontloaded since on a per turn basis he's going to do more damage and she needs to "catch up" with her ATB hacks.

But I mean a lot of it is I just have more stuff for him too. Rank 8 AASB vs Rank 1 Sync has some fundamental advantages.

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Lopen posted...

Like I said real time is less important than real time spent clicking to me. I just want to click once and do something else. 15-20 floors of watching the first 4 turns adds up too. Taking 30 seconds of attention per encounter vs 5 is a huge difference-- like if I had to watch the first few turns I couldn't do productive stuff cause I couldn't focus. Because not only do you need to watch those turns you also watch loading screens (or listen for sounds-- I don't want to hear game sounds while I'm watching a TV show either).

Like I've actually done that amount of attention to Brave Exvius in the past and the amount of time that feels lost is incredible.

You really should tool your team around just autoing the wall and see how it feels to you in terms of what you're investing. Just ignore the extra bit of real time and consider how much time it FEELS like you're putting in. You may be surprised.

I've done grinding in lots of games so I'm already used to it because of stuff like Pokemon and other handheld RPGs, it's not even hard. Use the small youtube window, put the bluestacks window on the right side of the screen over the suggested videos and you can keep an eye on both (the ear thing was more for Disney+) heck even in Hyrule warriors and the new mobile Mega Man X game I still grind while watching stuff. Multitasking is nice skill to have eh?

I'd rather get the labyrinths done ASAP and get the best hero gear I can in that time that drag out longer to be a little lazier. Sometime RNG is just not gonna give you that 5% you're missing (still don't have that 5% Seven whip and I've done that labyrinth like 10 times manually, ugh)

Plus I don't have to do as much labyrinth runs anyway since I can beat Nexus bosses and get optimal passives on a couple characters. Right now all I want is Fusoya's 5% and I'll be done till next month.

Lopen posted...

Uh, no? If everyone is capping it actually doesn't matter all that much. Her extra turn edge is more relevant when all the characters on your team aren't contributing 4-6x damage cap every turn.

Rem is so fast she can outspeed bosses they only get 1 or two attacks so you don't have to deal with their animations. Heck on squishier d350 bosses if I have Arc use Wodin, auto with Rosa and Fusoya and manual Mog glint+ I can kill a boss without even getting hit.

Lopen posted...

I've tried her on my team. Minwu makes more rapid clears. More casts and more damage per hit generally (some enemies aren't auto cap for 19999 like Chaos and Alexander). Keep in mind my Minwu has a large Magia edge too which probably matters there.

...wait you don't cap on Chaos with chain?



Seems like the thing you're missing isn't just magia, looks like you don't have Wodin, his holy seal, the mind boosting gauntlet and dragonking record boards.

Looks like you lack a quickcast too, considering it seems like some fights last enough that you have to refresh magicite. Most of the time I don't even see Wodin's follow up before the boss dies unless it's a tanky one like Alexander or Atmos. I don't need to refresh my magicite either even on the final Elvoret/Chaos/Marillis before they die.

I used my ticket on FF12 in hopes of Ashe or Balthier stuff and I got a dupe Vayne OSB, ugh. I got Relm party heal chase LMR on LotR so I finally got something new and useful.

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I meant Marilith not Chaos. Had my FF1 bads mixed up

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Also my fights only last long enough that I refresh magicite if I use Rem which was the whole point-- with my resources and team composition Minwu is better. My point was not to claim my team was faster than yours as I don't care about that-- I just think you're crazy to think skipping sentinel is worth the several times more attention you need to pay. It probably saves you like 5 seconds in the fight tops.

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Man, I'm pretty sure my manual teams are slower than your auto teams

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I dunno, I timed it with a stop watch, 1:10 for easy 350 trash (cept that grey demon from FFV who spams magic hammer, fuck that guy) 1:25ish on Ramza, 2:10 on bulkier stuff like Alexander. Dinosaurs I didn't bother because that fight you actually have to pay attention because he casts reflect on the top one before I can kill him.

Like I said attention isn't much of an issue when I can watch youtube to pass time, and I'm almost done getting what I want from this group, even then I don't need Fusoya's 5% damage since he's gonna cap quick soon anyway and I probably won't use him for Anima since he only has 1 cap break. After that I'm just gonna do my daily on a Nexus suicide and stock up on record markers.

Season 2's gonna be even nicer since there's less floors so it's much quicker to get to the top floors where the treasure room rates are much higher.

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If there are fewer floors are the record marker rewards reduced?

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I didn't know there were fewer floors but that's good news. The 20 level ones are tedious as hell. I love the hero equipment and the challenge bosses but I'm already pretty sick of the grinding part of Labyrinth.

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For the record I timed a few and Yuna AASB comes out between 1:20 and 1:30 depending on enemy animations and how many twincasts I do so yeah my team isn't really taking as long as you're implying since I usually finish +/- 1 turn from that. Probably looks longer than you think because of my initial Alexander cast coming out super fast due to haste RM, so the follow ups and such come sooner too. Also Fusoya Dyad2 gives party IC1 and I'm using Lightning IC3 LMR and Hope Fast Cast 3 LMR so I don't completely lack fast cast for the record.

Also I beat Alexander at around 1:50 so against tankier targets my team is probably faster even losing a turn on sentinel.

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Actually I screwed up against Alexander because Mog had passion salsa in slot 1 instead of holyja, I was doing the Golbez/Cecedore/Fusoya dungeon earlier and Alexander is rare here so I didn't see another one through the run. I'm doing another manual run and found another one and I killed him in 1:35.

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*shrug

Like I said I'm not really here to big dick energy clear times just theorycrafting Rem vs Minwu DPS

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Well that should be obvious it's Rem since she's still ranked higher in Altema despite Minwu having a Dual Awakening.

Honestly it surprisingly made labyrinths fun trying to see how fast you can kill the boss, making a little game to try and kill it before it attacks or if Wodin returns. I'm already 5/15 floors in.

https://i.imgur.com/HqHhC3L.gif

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Yay I got a 5% weapon for Fusoya, 5/4/8 so far.

For whatever reason I'm barely getting any Ceodore stuff though. Not sure if I should go for him, he does seem to be a better chain user than Ramza now though and you can lens his chain next update, hmmm...


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SSJSephirothGokuX123 posted...

Actually I screwed up against Alexander because Mog had passion salsa in slot 1 instead of holyja, I was doing the Golbez/Cecedore/Fusoya dungeon earlier and Alexander is rare here so I didn't see another one through the run. I'm doing another manual run and found another one and I killed him in 1:35.

Lol passion salsa

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SSJSephirothGokuX123 posted...

should be obvious it's Rem since she's still ranked higher in Altema despite Minwu having a Dual Awakening.

Not necessarily for this use case no. I've already explained why.

Use your brain and not a tier list. The reason you clear faster is because you manually input some turns (which to me isn't worth it) and your peripherals are better.

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Interestingly after paying attention to Alexander clears a bit better I'm not sure he's actually more tanky. He is hard to cap on due to his damage reduction, but he has less HP. He just seems more RNG based on when you cross his damage reduction HP thresholds, and he wastes more time buffing so his animations eat more of your time.

But yeah the RNG is probably a big part of why your clear time was so drastically higher at first.

I actually seem to kill him on the For The Calm cast more often than not.

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Hey it's not my fault you're behind on Wodin, he's almost a year old at this point and syncs and awakening are plentiful. And dark magic weak Wodin was the one I had the least trouble with. To boot T-0 Bahamut is the easiest Dragonking.

And you don't use bluestacks? It's way better to do high end content on a computer because of faster loading times and 60 FPS, and labyrinth put so much excess data on your phone if you do them manually there. Plus fighting 6* magicite make my phone lag because off all the background effects. And Kite's shop is actually usable on Bluestacks, it's still slow but it's "PS1 FF 5/6 CT port slow" while using it on a phone makes you question if the app crashed. Phone is still nice for dailies though.

Lopen posted...

I guess the big thing here that you guys aren't really realizing due to having loved and appreciated her for magicite battles and the like is that that fast CT doesn't really matter for auto battle labyrinth if your team is optimized well as what happens is Rem gets at most two sync actions and the enemy is dead.

You get stuff that makes Rem stronger from doing that top end content (the same Rem who's on almost every Holy magic weak Wodin and T-0 Dragonking winning team hint hint) then the damage advantage Minwu has is mitigated if both characters are capping then obviously Rem's going have a big advantage of 2x speed. Having a quickcast SB to start with before she uses her sync can also make a big difference because that will give her an extra turn, Mog being faster and using his awakening 1 lowering cast time on Rem's sync lets her go ham earlier and you'll be killing bosses with abilities before they can even attack lowering time wasting animations even further. OK is also faster than Rem with his mUSB if you don't have Mog Awakening 1. Ramza and Orran are also options if you want to get wall and magicite out of the way.

Also the thing with Alexander is he's somewhat of a "prototype" because the dark weak Nexus boss which is the same Alexander so he's carrying over the damage reduction high end bosses have at HP%. Battle Painting FF1 Krakens has the same thing I think.

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I don't think you quite get it.

Rem having more damage over time isn't entirely relevant here

Wodin fights take a lot longer than a labyrinth auto. I'm not saying Minwu competes with Rem on a tier list. I'm saying that for a labyrinth auto team he can make for more efficient clears depending on what your team is, particularly if you're working with rank 8 AASB Minwu vs rank 1 Sync Rem. Having stronger Wodin or other peripherals doesn't change that fact as much as you're thinking.

Like here's the math, ignoring the ability boost vs infuse (which I think Minwu has the edge in btw)

Minwu average damage per turn in awakening mode is
19999x12 (239988)
+0.5x19999x6 (59997)
+0.25x19999x6 (29998.5)

329983.5 per turn

Rem average damage per turn in sync mode is
19999x12 (239988)
+0.35x19999x6 (41997.9)

281985.9 per turn

Minwu beats her damage by on average 50k every turn he gets. Now the question becomes two things

1. Is the fight lasting long enough for Rem's ATB hax to get her an extra turn on Minwu.
2. And if so, is Minwu's frontloaded damage causing the fight to end before that turn.

In the case of a Wodin, Rem will get her extra turns. And particularly because of infusions mattering more there for damage calculations, having her best move be a sync is helpful.

But for rushing a labyrinth? They just don't have the tankiness to survive long enough for Rem to layer on extra turns. I haven't had Rem get an extra turn when it actually mattered yet, and I don't think layering on a bit more quick cast changes that. Minwu gets his two blasts and the fight is basically over. Rem gets her two blasts and the fight is basically over. Rem doesn't get a fourth before Minwu gets a third because she's either not fast enough or the boss doesn't have enough HP.

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Rem with quickcasts does make a difference because she kills bosses with them being able to use less actions or even before that boss can even attack which means less animations to deal with, even skipping magicite follow up if you're fast enough (and Wodin follow up is 99999 over Alexander's 30000, that's something you should consider) It's not really about getting more turns between Minwu and Rem but reducing how many turns a boss takes (or even magicite follow ups)

Also I'm surprised you haven't beaten Wodin yet with all the holy magic cap breaks you have. Holy Weak Wodin doesn't even use anti-heal, unless you drag the fight to turn 18.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123 posted...

It's not really about getting more turns between Minwu and Rem

If they take equal amounts of turns Minwu does 50k average damage extra per turn. Rem has to get a turn Minwu does not to do more damage than him otherwise Minwu ends the fight first. Then if you go to my specific case Minwu's AASB entry does like 75k more than Rem's which is not insignificant

Like this is literally the point I'm making.

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That's why you use quickcasts so she gets that extra turn. Mog Awakening 1 reduces the cast of sync, Mog glint+ reduces the cast time of the party, everyone goes ham with abilities and the boss is dead in 3 Rem turns, even two if the party gets lucky with dualcasts. No one is wasting a turn on wall/proshellga/chain/meter glints since you don't need a chain with Fusoya HA and Mog's big 50% mind boost.

So with Minwu how many attacks does the trash 350 boss, say Nidhogg get off? For me he doesn't even attack.

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lol. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise your clear times would be better. Your clear times using time figures you provided are like 10 seconds better tops.

Like you can only generate so many more Rem turns even if you gave Rem literal instacast on every action. The boss actually doesn't have enough HP. It dies before she generates more actions. You'd probably kill him faster with Minwu too if you had all the stuff I had for him.

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Like here's a super dumbed down version of what I mean

Say Minwu hits for 3300 a turn after awakening activation
Say Rem hits for 2800 a turn after sync activation

In 3 turns Minwu has done 1500 more damage than Rem
If Rem hits 4 times in the same span

But what if the boss only has 6000 hp by the time awakening/sync begin? Then Minwu kills it in 2 turns and Rem kills it in 3. Minwu probably will get 2 turns before Rem gets 3 no matter what the cast speed is because her speed boost isn't potent enough to get her 3 turns to his 2.

Like I get what you're saying and in MOST use cases it makes sense but here's you're just not using logic and are blindly going for tier lists because her overall DPS is higher.

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Is it just me or does that topic title remind anyone else of Biolizard28? I feel like that used to be a common response to his posts.

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I do have Minwu's awakening and dualcast LMR (not his HA not gonna waste sapphires on him when I already beat FF2 Bahamut and he's not going to make a Anima team with just 1 cap break) and am doing a manual labyrinth run with him in Rem's place now... and nope! He's significantly worse than Rem. He doesn't outspeed the d350 enemy before they take action and Wodin always does his follow up, even if I get a 4x Holyja. I've never seen him kill a boss in two turns like Rem has.

And he SUCKS HARD against Atmos. Wodin had to do two follow ups, and I had to turn off auto so Rosa could use her HA to keep the party alive, while Rem doesn't need to worry about slowga. I doubt an extra hit would redeem him over Rem. He also can't use Lunar Dragon to hit those dinosaur skeletons who use reflect like Rem can.

You've severely overrated him.

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V: 1/3, Dorgann GSB

Ugh

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Finally got something good off the lotr, Faris Awakening 1!

Shame she doesn't do good damage, would have used her for Snow Giant with 3 caps breaks otherwise.

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This new banner is kind of tempting for the Edge stuff... probably shouldn't pull though

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What a nuts banner, all syncs and awakenings and 1 USB (why can't more banners be like this without the glint/LBO/LBG fluff?)

Not gonna pull because too many dupes but this is great for newer players.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123 posted...

What a nuts banner, all syncs and awakenings and 1 USB (why can't more banners be like this without the glint/LBO/LBG fluff?)

Not gonna pull because too many dupes but this is great for newer players

I forget, is that the banner with the 3x pulls or the 10x pulls

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Always do 11x pulls, you get 1 5*+ relic at least.


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LotR is where i got my three 7 stars, including femme fatale

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LotR is special because its a 3x pull with a guaranteed 5* or better; typically only the 11x pulls have any such guarantees.

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Oh you mean those, I thought you meant the 3x pulls on regular banners. Sorry.

50 myhtril banners are usually better since they have more recent stuff and just have the relics featured on the banner (though a very, very, very low chance of getting an off banner relic) while LotR, while you can get some good stuff also has a lot of obsolete junk. LotR has dozens, even hundreds of relics depending on the realm so you getting 7* from those is major luck.

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Somehow DeNa always manage to make those loaded banners massive dupe-fests for me. 8 AASBs, and I already have 7 of them; only missing Alisaie AASB, the USB, and the 3 Syncs.

I need that Edge Sync, but I'm not doing a full price pull on a banner with >50% dupes.

Welp went ahead and pulled anyway

1/11.... Edge sync!

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Congrats! Edge is one of the best characters to invest in!

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So far these focused banners have all been dupe city for me. I could definitely use Eiko's sync and Alisaie's awakening, but I have every other relic on the banner except Noel's awakening and the one USB.

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I only had Noel's and Eiko's awakenings from the banner so it wasn't too risky for me on that front

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Welp I picked up Edge's HA... not sure he lets me beat any new fights at the moment (both Shivas and phys-weak Leviathan are already down, my lightning magic is trash, and Ifrit just looks like a nightmare that I don't want to think about).

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LordoftheMorons posted...

LotR is special because its a 3x pull with a guaranteed 5* or better; typically only the 11x pulls have any such guarantees.

ok i thought it was the LotR that got me the 7 stars because of this dude when i asked which one is the 3x pulls
SSJSephirothGokuX123 posted...

Always do 11x pulls, you get 1 5*+ relic at least.I

but it was the other realms banner that got me the 7 stars

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LotR is absolutely worth doing, at least unless you're a vet, and can give 7*s. I've been super lucky on it this time, and pulled 6 different 7*s accross the first 14 banners.

You can look at banner details, and most realms seem to be around 1.5% - 2% chance for a 7*.
Considering there's a garanteed 5*+ relic, which is 14% of the pool, your odds to get a 7* relic on LotR is around 1.5/14 - 2/14 = 10% - 14% (actually slightly higher because you can get more than 1 5*+ relic)

Accross the 18 banners, that should get you, on average, 2 7* relics for 90 mythril

I had 55 mithril when i did the 15 Mithril 10x realm banners and luck of the realms
that means i did 3 10x pills and 2 3x pulls

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Used my 15 day ticket on XI

2/11: Prishe AOSB, Curilla AASB

Woo finally another XI character with a BDL

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Still cant stop myself from reading LotR as Lord of the Rings. My brain is hardwired to read it the way lol

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PikachuTwoKing posted...

Still cant stop myself from reading LotR as Lord of the Rings. My brain is hardwired to read it the way lol

Get a brain injury that disconnects the nerves that make you read it that way, now you can read it the correct way
don't worry this is a joke

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SSJSephirothGokuX123 posted...

You've severely overrated him.

I'm saying Minwu with my resources is better than Rem with my resources. If you don't want to do Holy VIII and Cap his hits at 5 that is completely fine but that means you're not playing him at his potential-- his up front damage no longer has an edge over Rem If he's doing less hits.

I literally did full runs of labyrinth with both and have recorded clear times with both. And have compared them to yours and am fairly close despite lack of wodin.

I mean you can say I'm being biased but I'm the one with data and numbers-- you're the one just sticking your fingers in your ears and lalala tier listing lol

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Random side note I don't actually have to disable auto for Lunasaurs because lightning physical and Fusoya Dyad2 + Minwu AASB entry kills one super fast

That's kinda cool

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Yesterday my team beat lunasaurs on auto before I noticed what I was fighting. Not sure yet if they can do it on the highest difficulty but that was nice.

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Dude I just used him in a run in Rem's spot, he never finished a fight before Rem, and he did worse against the annoying bosses like Atmos and Lunasaurs so not only is he slower he's less versatile. I gave him 3 floors of use and he made fights feel like a slog compared to Rem, and when I ditched him for Rem and she started tearing through the rest of the labyrinth on turbo mode.

You keep talking about damage but that doesn't matter if he never gets a no boss action win or two turn kill when Rem does, Rem's speed lets her skip the animations for the boss and magicite follow up because she's so fast, and Minwu can't even do that if he got two 4x casts because his ATB bar doesn't finish up before the boss attacks and Wodin returns. Yes Minwu does do a little more damage but the major issue is that he's SLOW compared to Rem, and if you're already capping with then he's hit his peak but Rem hasn't, and when the damage gap closes between them Rem's speed becomes more valuable, and that already happened with me because I beat Wodin/Dragonking, and it's going to be even worse for Minwu when Rem's hero gear comes out and she gets first turn instant cast. Minwu also doesn't 4x cast as often as you claim, at most it's a 3x consistent, heck sometimes he even craps out and only casts twice, and that costs another turn, when no d350 boss lasts more than 3 Rem turns consistently. He's also annoying to use because he's not faster than Arc/Rosa/Fusoya so when I do a manual fight he gets outspeed by them if I run into a FF3/4 boss which messes up my muscle memory clicking when Rem always outspeeds them because she has a higher speed stat.

You can theory craft all you want but the fact is you don't have Wodin's stuff and Dragonking record boards, I do, and Minwu has done nothing but disappoint me as a Rem replacement. Only thing you have over me is Minwu's HA (which like I said I'm not wasting precious sapphires on him over a forum debate, especially since superbosses are going to just be one per month now so I need to be careful with how I spend anima lens+ from now on. I'm only going to make it if a FF2 Labyrinth comes out) and a higher ranked awakening but the ATB speed from my experience is much more valuable than initial soul break cast time (which probably isn't even that big of an advantage with Mog's quickcast anyway.)

One extra hit isn't going to make up for the lost ATB speed, heck Arc is probably going to be better than Minwu for Labyrinth soon because he's getting Hero Artifacts in a couple months and can just instant cast his sync and cap easily with his sync command of 6 hits + imperil making him better on damage reduction bosses. Really if anything you're the one sticking fingers in your ears and going wahwahwah MINWU HIPSTER CRED when instead of wasting time theotycrafting you could have beaten Dark Magic Weak Wodin and FF2/T-0 Bahamut to make an up to date comparison.

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