Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 378: My name is FD(A), and I Approve this Topic.

(+) Yeah! (+)

why does it say "president trump"

has he still not officially conceded

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

why does it say "president trump"

has he still not officially conceded

You're still called "President" even out of office.

So Presidents Carter, Clinton, W. Bush, and Obama would all also be accurate.

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I think like officially the style is supposed to be "former President" but informally yeah they generally still are referred to as President.

Edit: I'm seeing on a .gov site that actually "The Honorable" should be used but I will assure you that is never used in any public or informal setting lol.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

why does it say "president trump"

has he still not officially conceded

Yeah, since we don't have royal or noble titles here in the USA, we've made elected offices into perpetual titles. It's an American thing.

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ah ok. good to know!

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https://twitter.com/janeosanders/status/1435792717947277316?s=21

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/janeosanders/status/1435792717947277316?s=21

What does this have to do with politics

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Biden having Department of Labor require that all companies with 100+ employees will have to mandate vaccines or require testing once a week and provide paid time off for it.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1436074566112141314


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xp1337 posted...

Biden having Department of Labor require that all companies with 100+ employees will have to mandate vaccines or require testing once a week and provide paid time off for it.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1436074566112141314

nice including Fox in there

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masterplum posted...

What does this have to do with politics

how does it not

NFUN posted...

nice including Fox in there

https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/1436075172797288456?s=21

Fuckin love this.

Conservative talk radio hosts favorite hobby is dying from COVID, meanwhile, theyre so stupid they have no idea their heroes are vaxxed


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I was livid with Desantis for mandating not allowing vaccine passports, and I'm not happy mandating that employers have to require workers to vaccinate.

Can we just, not mandate.

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masterplum posted...

I was livid with Desantis for mandating not allowing vaccine passports, and I'm not happy mandating that employers have to require workers to vaccinate.

Can we just, not mandate.

No, because allowing people to just do whatever they want means the plague never ends. At a certain point, if people aren't going to be grownups about getting vaxxed there have to be consequences or else we can just kiss a functioning society goodbye.

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Biden throwing Fox News under the bus in a tweet is the smartest political move he's done since taking office

I'm not even joking

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Not_an_Owl posted...

No, because allowing people to just do whatever they want means the plague never ends. At a certain point, if people aren't going to be grownups about getting vaxxed there have to be consequences or else we can just kiss a functioning society goodbye.

This is the exact argument for the dumb soda or liquor bans. "People can't control themselves so we are going to do it for them"

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masterplum posted...

This is the exact argument for the dumb soda or liquor bans. "People can't control themselves so we are going to do it for them"

Being unvaccinated imposes a large externality on other people. Theyre not just getting themselves killed.

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Andrew Yang splitting off from being a Democrat, announcing he's forming a third party (oh convenient that he's got a book coming out)

Dems on Twitter fucking FUMING, luv 2 see it

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ExThaNemesis posted...

Andrew Yang splitting off from being a Democrat, announcing he's forming a third party (oh convenient that he's got a book coming out)

Dems on Twitter fucking FUMING, luv 2 see it

Ok but why


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LordoftheMorons posted...

Being unvaccinated imposes a large externality on other people. Theyre not just getting themselves killed.

it's been a year and a half how the hell is this still a point that needs to be reiterated

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Ok but why

he's been pretty thoroughly rejected by dem voters twice I guess

honestly he's probably the right's favourite dem so I'm not even sure this would even hurt

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GuessMyUserName posted...

honestly he's probably the right's favourite dem

not even close

gabbard

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I discounted Gabbard since she retired right?

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from politics? idk

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Yang lives I New York which is adopting ranked choice voting yes? Extra parties is absolutely in order. Need to reprogram people away from the two party system.

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xp1337 posted...

from politics? idk

dammit you're gonna make me wiki gabbard aren't you

looks like she's just a podcaster and Fox News correspondent as far as 2021 has gone, and if you check out her podcast description she brands herself Independent

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Yang lives I New York which is adopting ranked choice voting yes?

Just NYC and accordingly only city-wide elections like mayor, city council, etc. (that is, when voting for state-wide and national elections NYC would still be voting the old way). And it's already in effect. The mayoral primary he ran and lost in was using RCV.

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masterplum posted...

This is the exact argument for the dumb soda or liquor bans. "People can't control themselves so we are going to do it for them"

You're better than this post, dude.

Atleast, I think you are.

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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1436076525837709321

That's the good stuff

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Also another point against the people yelling about tyranny (unless you're a federal employee):

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1436188217917820929

I don't think this option should exist, but it's there for anyone who's more scared of needles than a deadly virus!

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Employers could and in many cases likely will be stricter. They either have to pay for weekly testing or mandate vaccination.

StealThisSheen posted...

You're better than this post, dude.

Atleast, I think you are.

many of his other posts in these topics suggest otherwise

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

many of his other posts in these topics suggest otherwise

^

LordoftheMorons posted...

Also another point against the people yelling about tyranny (unless you're a federal employee):

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1436188217917820929

I don't think this option should exist, but it's there for anyone who's more scared of needles than a deadly virus!

I suppose it depends on the logistics. Have any of you guys tried to get testing lately? When I tried to get tested recently it was booked everywhere.

The other problem is that testing is a logistical nightmare for companies. What if the employee doesnt show up to work the day of the test for instance. I think most corporations are just going to decline the test option and fire anyone who isnt vaccinated.

To reiterate, I am very very much in favor of making unvaccinated peoples lives not fun and denying them pretty much all non essentials, but we have officially crossed into denying people essentials here and that makes me really uneasy.

The common argument is always something like well the government forces you to wear a seatbelt and get a drivers permit but you can 100% avoid that if you really really wanted to. You could live somewhere you didnt need to drive.

With this mandate you could. Starve to death I guess. Maybe get a job at a tiny company and hope the company isnt too successful.

Amusingly I would be much less concerned if we had a basic income and not working was a legitimate option

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Leafeon13N posted...

Employers could and in many cases likely will be stricter. They either have to pay for weekly testing or mandate vaccination.

I don't see anything saying that employers would have to pay the costs for the weekly testing option. Couldn't they just require unvaccinated workers to get tested outside of work hours and pay for themselves?
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They definitely don't have to pay for the weekly testing themself. Just not let anyone onto the premises who didn't get their test. Could be at the employees own expense if they wish.

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I just don't see anyone outside of the most right wing friendly corporations wanting to deal with the additional HR burden of enforcing weekly testing.

My guess is it will be cheaper to fire everyone than track everyone's testing and make sure that if any employee doesn't get tested they are then immediately terminated.

My company for instance has lost lawsuits to summary judgements because HR doesn't check their email well enough for summons. You think they can track everyone's weekly testing?

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masterplum posted...

I suppose it depends on the logistics. Have any of you guys tried to get testing lately? When I tried to get tested recently it was booked everywhere.

The other problem is that testing is a logistical nightmare for companies. What if the employee doesnt show up to work the day of the test for instance. I think most corporations are just going to decline the test option and fire anyone who isnt vaccinated.

To reiterate, I am very very much in favor of making unvaccinated peoples lives not fun and denying them pretty much all non essentials, but we have officially crossed into denying people essentials here and that makes me really uneasy.

The common argument is always something like well the government forces you to wear a seatbelt and get a drivers permit but you can 100% avoid that if you really really wanted to. You could live somewhere you didnt need to drive.

With this mandate you could. Starve to death I guess. Maybe get a job at a tiny company and hope the company isnt too successful.

Amusingly I would be much less concerned if we had a basic income and not working was a legitimate option

Saying they can live somewhere they don't need to drive is about as realistic as saying they can do work for a company with less than 100 employees

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masterplum posted...

just don't see anyone outside of the most right wing friendly corporations wanting to deal with the additional HR burden of enforcing weekly testing.

My guess is it will be cheaper to fire everyone than track everyone's testing and make sure that if any employee doesn't get tested they are then immediately terminated.

Fair point, but firing all unvaccinated employees is also not a great option. Having to replace ~25% of your workers all at once would be difficult even in normal times; doing that when just about all employers are complaining about a labor shortage might not be possible at all.
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Xeybozn posted...

Fair point, but firing all unvaccinated employees is also not a great option. Having to replace ~25% of your workers all at once would be difficult even in normal times; doing that when just about all employers are complaining about a labor shortage might not be possible at all.

Depends on the magnitude. We have already seen high profile firings at ESPN, MLB etc

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masterplum posted...

My guess is it will be cheaper to fire everyone than track everyone's testing and make sure that if any employee doesn't get tested they are then immediately terminated.

Not sure why I should be concerned about this when so many states are 'right to work states' and 'at will employment' where you can be fired without cause for any reason (and with a weakened union). In fact, over half the states allow businesses to do this. Maybe when people are more concerned about the 'right to work' bullshit, I'll care a bit more about people getting fired for being anti-vaxx.

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I mean, as a matter of law, SCOTUS already ruled on mandatory vaccination laws by the state over a century ago and deemed it a constitutional use of state power to protect the safety of the public. Same with schools being allowed to refuse admission to a student who failed to get a required vaccination.

Now, this court doesn't give a fuck about precedent but the precedent is clear.

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https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1436118222068142084?s=21

lol there are like 10 elements of this that are so weird

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I don't think this option should exist, but it's there for anyone who's more scared of needles than a deadly virus!

Don't belittle people who are afraid of needles. I have an extreme fear of needles. So do many of the other people I know. We faced our fears to get the vaccine, but that doesn't make those fears any less real.

Kingfrost posted...

Don't belittle people who are afraid of needles. I have an extreme fear of needles. So do many of the other people I know. We faced our fears to get the vaccine, but that doesn't make those fears any less real.

Sorry, that wasnt my intent. What I was trying to get at is that except in very rare circumstances (for which exemptions exist) getting a vaccine is not an undue burden, and given the very substantial threat that spreading covid does pose to others people have a moral responsibility to get one. Since too many people are being selfish about it to stop the spread mandates are necessary.

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https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/1436075729540853761

Now retire immediately to prevent it from getting worse.

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So Larry Elder's campaign website has put up a form for people to report voter fraud, and is written in the past tense as if Newsom has already survived the recall and fraud was found in the final results.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

For a group of people that claims to hate Germans from the 1940s so much, you guys sure love to act like them.

Just say what you mean and stop using euphemistic language: "Fascism and dictatorial powers are okay if someone I root for does it."

You need vaccines to travel to a lot of countries

You need vaccines to enter the public school system

You need vaccines for college

You need vaccines to join the military

Hell, in this case, you don't even need the vaccine if somebody is that dead set against it, they can just test weekly.

What's the problem?

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UltimaterializerX posted...

That the messaging is deliberately and intentionally divisive. I got vaccinated, so I don't personally care, but "get vaccinated or else" is not going to convince anyone that hasn't gotten it yet.

Last I checked the CDC's site, the only two demographics under 40% adult vaccination rate were black people and white male republicans. There's a page on there that breaks it all down by race, gender, political party, and age, but for the life of me I can't find it on the site because the layout is so bad. If anyone can figure it out please let me know.

The point - how, exactly, does this messaging convince either one of those groups to get poked? All this has actually done is enrage people. I don't really see how it will increase poke rates.

Because showing them the science didn't work.

Because offering them incentives didn't work.

Because pleading with them didn't work.

Eventually, you've gotta accept that assholes need to be treated like assholes. So many have said "I'll quit if my job mandates vaccines." Well, time to put up or shut up.

Vaccination rates for black people in COVID hot spots have actually spiked recently. The only group of people that hasn't been increasing notably is white republicans.

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