Poll of the Day > NY and Cali will require all City/State Workers to Get Vaccinated...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Reigning_King posted...

the rest have decide to "take their chances" (the same way someone "takes their chances" of getting struck by lightning when they go outside on a cloudy day).

Did you really just suggest that the chance of dying of Covid is comparable to the chance of being struck by lightning outside of a thunderstorm?

---

adjl posted...

Did you really just suggest that the chance of dying of Covid is comparable to the chance of being struck by lightning outside of a thunderstorm?

No.

Having just read the previous page, I'd like to point out that "my body, my choice" doesn't apply when it comes to pandemics. Vaccination should not be a matter of personal choice if for no other reason than because not everyone has the choice to take a vaccine. It falls upon those who can take the vaccine to do so in order to prevent it from spreading to those who can't take it.

Your right to not take a vaccine should end when you live in a fucking society and you could spread the disease and potentially kill hundreds of people with your bullshit conspiracism thanks to the nature of contagion. Hell, you could kill thousands if a new strain mutates thanks to your "personal choice." Manually termanating a pregnancy (when 1/5 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage anyway) is not comparable to the wide-spread harm to society that comes from weakening vaccination distribution.

Vaccines are not a matter of individual health; they are a matter of health related to entire populations. Policies with respect to contagious disease containment and treatment should NEVER be up to the individual, if for no other reason than because it makes it more difficult for people who do want it to get it.

If, fate forbid, some disease with a fatality rate comparable to the worst strains of ebola and the ability to spread like COVID turns up, I don't want us to live in a society that doesn't already practice the procedures needed to stop it before it starts. Like... this feels like people who shit all over organized efforts to stop the spread of diseases are just painfully ignorant on the topic of contagions. It's a little embarrassing.

---

Reigning_King posted...

Shows what you know. The term you're looking for is virology, not biology, viruses aren't living creatures.

Virology is a part of microbiology, which you would learn about in biology class. And most schools teach biology in 9th grade. Most schools dont have a 9th grade virology class. So, what he said was actually correct
---

Gaawa_chan posted...

Having just read the previous page, I'd like to point out that "my body, my choice" doesn't apply when it comes to pandemics. Vaccination should not be a matter of personal choice if for no other reason than because not everyone has the choice to take a vaccine. It falls upon those who can take the vaccine to do so in order to prevent it from spreading to those who can't take it.

Your right to not take a vaccine should end when you live in a fucking society and you could spread the disease and potentially kill hundreds of people with your bullshit conspiracism thanks to the nature of contagion. Hell, you could kill thousands if a new strain mutates thanks to your "personal choice." Manually termanating a pregnancy (when 1/5 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage anyway) is not comparable to the wide-spread harm to society that comes from weakening vaccination distribution.

Vaccines are not a matter of individual health; they are a matter of health related to entire populations. Policies with respect to contagious disease containment and treatment should NEVER be up to the individual, if for no other reason than because it makes it more difficult for people who do want it to get it.

If, fate forbid, some disease with a fatality rate comparable to the worst strains of ebola and the ability to spread like COVID turns up, I don't want us to live in a society that doesn't already practice the procedures needed to stop it before it starts. Like... this feels like people who shit all over organized efforts to stop the spread of diseases are just painfully ignorant on the topic of contagions. It's a little embarrassing.

If you don't like American freedom you're free to leave, assuming you do live here. I would hope so since any foreigner would have even less of a foot to stand on telling us what to do.

MartianManchild posted...

Sad day for freedom. Another step toward fascism that far too many people are blindly accepting with open arms.

This. King Newsom reigning supreme.

---

Reigning_King posted...

If you don't like American freedom you're free to leave, assuming you do live here. I would hope so since any foreigner would have even less of a foot to stand on telling us what to do.

We already have mandated vaccines in other facets of life. Stop being a drama queen, it's pathetic.

Also, aren't you the kind of hypocrite who demands that people who flee from unstable nations should stay where they are from instead and "fix" their countries?

---

Gaawa_chan posted...

We already have mandated vaccines in other facets of life. Stop being a drama queen, it's pathetic.

those have years of data
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

those have years of data

This is a non-argument; how long a vaccine has existed has no bearing on its efficacy. We already have sufficient data to prove that the vaccines worked against the strains they were designed to combat. Try again.
I am a COVID 19 screener. You're just baselessly fearmongering about hypotheticals instead of working off of existing information.

---

Gaawa_chan posted...

We already have mandated vaccines in other facets of life. Stop being a drama queen, it's pathetic.

Also, aren't you the kind of hypocrite who demands that people who flee from unstable nations should stay where they are from instead and "fix" their countries?

You call me a drama queen after your borderline hysterics above demanding personal freedoms be stripped from people so you can feel safe? Lol.

I have no problem with immigrants or immigration, ad long as they go through the proper processes and follow our laws. That's a totally different issue though, telling you'd bring it up.

Mead posted...

how would that be enforceable though? I dont disagree Im just trying to imagine what it might look like.

We've managed to mass-vaccinate as a society before - it's the main reason why smallpox is no longer a thing (at least until someone uses one of the lab samples to recreate it as a biological weapon and dooms us all, or it escapes from a frozen corpse as climate change defrosts a glacier or two).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Eradication

The problem, whereas once upon a time, people were willing to accept that sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the good of society (and millions of people a year survived who otherwise would have died), now we're at a point where almost no one trusts our own governments or the UN (or science), and the Internet spreads misinformation far faster than actual fact. So people are much more willing to push back - especially when you're dealing with a virus that seemingly only kills "old people" and "people who already have problems", so it's much, much easier to just say "well, if I catch it I'll just ride it out" or "ehh, it's someone else's problem".

It doesn't help that there really isn't a clear or worthwhile effort coming from above - as much as people shat on Trump and his administration for not handling the problem effectively, it's not like Biden's done much better. Though it's also not clear that either of them could have done a much more significant push in a highly politicized environment where more than half the country is going to hate you no matter what you do.

I'd probably be more depressed if I wasn't already so cynical.
---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

people were willing to accept that sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the good of society

The sad thing is, the "sacrifice" being asked for here is to take a half hour out of your day, twice, at a location you're already at for regular shopping, for a free vaccine that might give you a sore arm and a day of malaise. It's not a big ask at all.


---

adjl posted...

Did you really just suggest that the chance of dying of Covid is comparable to the chance of being struck by lightning outside of a thunderstorm?

What do you expect from a white noise machine

---

Reigning_King posted...

No.

Then what point was that comparison supposed to communicate?

---

CaptainStrong posted...

I'm sure they know who got vaccinated, so they'd use the list to find the people who aren't vaccinated. Tell them they need to get vaccinated and if they refuse, throw their asses in jail, strap them down and forcefully inject them with it. Let them out after a month behind bars.

This is not Nazi Germany, everyone has a right of what to put in their body!

---

MagicalPrincess posted...

This is not Nazi Germany, everyone has a right of what to put in their body!

Thx, Tucker.

---

MagicalPrincess posted...

This is not Nazi Germany, everyone has a right of what to put in their body!

these people still have the right to refuse the vaccine

---

Reigning_King posted...

If you don't like American freedom you're free to leave, assuming you do live here. I would hope so since any foreigner would have even less of a foot to stand on telling us what to do.

If it was that easy to leave this shithole third world country, I'd have done it years ago.

States where abortion is punishable by law should also make the vaccine mandatory. God would want you to protect your fellow man, correct?

---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

it escapes from a frozen corpse as climate change defrosts a glacier or two

I'm looking forward to the melting of the permafrost, can you imagine all the prehistoric viruses just waiting to kill us all.

---

KodyKeir posted...

I'm looking forward to the melting of the permafrost, can you imagine all the prehistoric viruses just waiting to kill us all.

Lots of those pre history viruses will not be able to infecte anything nowadays as most creatures are too different now then when those viruses were dominant.
You need to be more worried about thr fungus spores/bacteria. As those can infected a wider range of creatures.

---

Ogurisama posted...

Lots of those pre history viruses will not be able to infect anything nowadays as most creatures are too different now then when those viruses were dominant.

That's the hope.

Ogurisama posted...

You need to be more worried about the fungus spores/bacteria.

I almost forgot about fungi! We could have a real world version of "The Last of Us"

---

Ogurisama posted...

Lots of those pre history viruses will not be able to infecte anything nowadays as most creatures are too different now then when those viruses were dominant.

You need to be more worried about the fungus spores/bacteria. As those can infected a wider range of creatures.

Ehh, modern humans (ie, homo sapiens) have existed since before the last glacial period reached its maximum, and even before that hominid species in general that technically count as "human" (Neanderthal, Cro Magnon, etc) were around. Obviously there isn't going to be anything popping out of the ice cap or Antarctica (unless Lovecraft was right), but there are plenty of places where tundra and permafrost has trapped relatively recent corpses that are starting to defrost. So something might still slip out that's ready to hop to humans.

And being different now isn't necessarily a positive - it can go hand-in-hand with humans having lost general immunity to diseases we used to possess. The majority of modern diseases stem from prolonged human/animal contact deriving from domestication, which means few pre-date agriculture/herding... but if something's been out of circulation for a while it might hit us harder than it would have millennia ago.

Bacteria is definitely an issue (anthrax being a common fear), but it's not the only issue.
---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Ehh, modern humans (ie, homo sapiens) have existed since before the last glacial period reached its maximum, and even before that hominid species in general that technically count as "human" (Neanderthal, Cro Magnon, etc) were around. Obviously there isn't going to be anything popping out of the ice cap or Antarctica (unless Lovecraft was right), but there are plenty of places where tundra and permafrost has trapped relatively recent corpses that are starting to defrost. So something might still slip out that's ready to hop to humans.

Box of Oddities did an interesting episode on this when they were talking about that frozen wooly mammoth baby

---

Clench281 posted...

The sad thing is, the "sacrifice" being asked for here is to take a half hour out of your day, twice, at a location you're already at for regular shopping, for a free vaccine that might give you a sore arm and a day of malaise. It's not a big ask at all.

it might also do much more than that, and there is no guarantee it won't have adverse effects a few years later
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

it might also do much more than that

Yeah, it might be as much as 4-5 days of malaise. Sure, more serious adverse effects exist, but they're incredibly rare and can be safely neglected due to how many orders of magnitude less dangerous than the disease itself they are.

---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

it might also do much more than that, and there is no guarantee it won't have adverse effects a few years later

That is literally also true of Covid itself lol

---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

it might also do much more than that, and there is no guarantee it won't have adverse effects a few years later

The same can be said for the virus, (and is proving to be true with long haul sufferers) the difference being the virus can kill you now.

---

We where already doing this at my state job down here in the south. Bi weekly tests though not weekly

Getting the vaccine was damn near worth it for not having to do the tests alone.

---

Metalsonic66 posted...

That is literally also true of Covid itself lol

which is why people who have low chance of even getting it, (let alone serious effects) shouldn't be forced into getting the shot
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

which is why people who have low chance of even getting it, (let alone serious effects) shouldn't be forced into getting the shot

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the prisoner's dilemma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

which is why people who have low chance of even getting it, (let alone serious effects) shouldn't be forced into getting the shot

The only people that have a low chance of getting Covid are people that live in areas with very few Covid cases, which is only reliably attainable with high vaccination rates. If you choose not to get vaccinated because of a low chance of getting Covid, that means you're relying on other people to take the (quite minimal) risk for you so you can reap the benefits without any of the (quite minimal) risk, and that makes you a pathetic moocher.

---

adjl posted...

which is only reliably attainable with high vaccination rates.

And mask wearing, as you can still spread the virus if you have received both your shots. (Get ready for your third)

---

adjl posted...

The only people that have a low chance of getting Covid are people that live in areas with very few Covid cases, which is only reliably attainable with high vaccination rates. If you choose not to get vaccinated because of a low chance of getting Covid, that means you're relying on other people to take the (quite minimal) risk for you so you can reap the benefits without any of the (quite minimal) risk, and that makes you a pathetic moocher.

for most of last year I got notifications a couple times a month saying someone at my site had tested positive. about once a month this year.

never caught it.
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

for most of last year I got notifications a couple times a month saying someone at my site had tested positive. about once a month this year.

never caught it.

Gambler's Fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

for most of last year I got notifications a couple times a month saying someone at my site had tested positive. about once a month this year.

never caught it.

At worked I was locked in a room with 28 positive cases 12 hours a day. Couldnt even leave to eat my food so mask had to come off at some point.

Im just lucky though I think I was one of only 2 people that worked back long term there that didnt catch it.

---

adjl posted...

which is only reliably attainable with high vaccination rates.

itp: low population density areas don't exist

Reigning_King posted...

If you don't like American freedom you're free to leave, assuming you do live here. I would hope so since any foreigner would have even less of a foot to stand on telling us what to do.

The Constitution does not mention vaccines in any section of it.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Ehh, modern humans (ie, homo sapiens) have existed since before the last glacial period reached its maximum, and even before that hominid species in general that technically count as "human" (Neanderthal, Cro Magnon, etc) were around. Obviously there isn't going to be anything popping out of the ice cap or Antarctica (unless Lovecraft was right), but there are plenty of places where tundra and permafrost has trapped relatively recent corpses that are starting to defrost. So something might still slip out that's ready to hop to humans.

And being different now isn't necessarily a positive - it can go hand-in-hand with humans having lost general immunity to diseases we used to possess. The majority of modern diseases stem from prolonged human/animal contact deriving from domestication, which means few pre-date agriculture/herding... but if something's been out of circulation for a while it might hit us harder than it would have millennia ago.

Bacteria is definitely an issue (anthrax being a common fear), but it's not the only issue.

Mount Everest melting? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vSUV1nii5k

KodyKeir posted...

And mask wearing, as you can still spread the virus if you have received both your shots. (Get ready for your third)

Only until two weeks after the second shot.
---

Reigning_King posted...

itp: low population density areas don't exist

Grey Bruce

https://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/news/local-news/covid-health-unit-said-it-has-learned-from-delta-fuelled-surge-in-grey-bruce

---

Revelation34 posted...

Only until two weeks after the second shot.

Check again.

The various shots were never meant to be vaccines providing full protections, but inoculations meant to prevent serious illness and death; they were branded as vaccines because the POTUS of the day could not pronounce innoculations consistently, but could say vaccine, and liked the sound of it better.

You can still transmit the virus even if you have received both doses, wear a mask.

---

KodyKeir posted...

Check again.

The various shots were never meant to be vaccines providing full protections, but inoculations meant to prevent serious illness and death; they were branded as vaccines because the POTUS of the day could not pronounce innoculations consistently, but could say vaccine, and liked the sound of it better.

You can still transmit the virus even if you have received both doses, wear a mask.

I already wear a mask and would still wear one even if I was vaccinated. It provides people a peace of mind. Everybody I know of that is vaccinated also still wears a mask.
---

KodyKeir posted...

And mask wearing, as you can still spread the virus if you have received both your shots. (Get ready for your third)

Eh, there's some room for debate there. Delta seems pretty decent at being transmitted despite vaccinations, but they nonetheless reduce that risk. Hence the CDC's announcement that fully-vaxxed folks don't need masks. Announcing that was ill-advised and hopelessly naive, but the conclusion that vaccinated people don't represent a major transmission risk is sound.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

for most of last year I got notifications a couple times a month saying someone at my site had tested positive. about once a month this year.

never caught it.

Okay? That doesn't mean you magically have a low chance of catching it, it just means the risk you do have wasn't realized. That risk was likely fairly low, but that's not so much because you're magically less likely to be infected for inherent personal reasons as because the exposure you did have to those positive people wasn't particularly high-risk, and most of that depends on countermeasures (distancing, masks, cleaning workstations...) that will ideally be lifted someday.

Reigning_King posted...

itp: low population density areas don't exist

Relatively sparse areas often have lower case counts, obviously, but without vaccinations, that's very much not something. It only takes one infected tourist to start a cluster, and if people aren't practicing countermeasures to prevent that cluster from growing (which is not something we want to rely on indefinitely) and the area isn't anywhere close to achieving herd immunity, it's going to grow.

---

mooreandrew58 posted...

At worked I was locked in a room with 28 positive cases 12 hours a day. Couldnt even leave to eat my food so mask had to come off at some point.

Im just lucky though I think I was one of only 2 people that worked back long term there that didnt catch it.

Have you ever been tested for it? Maybe you were one of the lucky ones who caught it but were asymptomatic.
---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Have you ever been tested for it? Maybe you were one of the lucky ones who caught it but were asymptomatic.

Every 2 weeks. Vaccinated. Now but not then. If I ever had it it was before it was big news here as I got a bronchitis and severe upper respiratory illness diagnosis back in November of 2019. Sickest I had been in like a decade. Definitely had bronchitis. Sounds weird but I KNOW how that fought tastes

As said earlier in this post. I was half mocking the people applauding what the topic title is about cause this backwoods state has been doing it for over a year with no fanfare about it

---

mooreandrew58 posted...

bronchitis and severe upper respiratory illness diagnosis back in November of 2019.

You were likely one of the earlier cases then, before we really knew what we were dealing with; it's likely your doctors have already flagged your case for review by the CDC, (NIH, or whatever you have there) but maybe mention it to your GP in case it got lost in the flood of cases. I don't know what, if any samples were preserved at the time, but on the off chance there is something there to test, it's better to look and not find it, than to have it and not know about it.

An early sample of the virus pathogenesis from an area other then China at that early stage would encourage China to cooperate in the WHO's investigation into the origins of the virus and the origin of the jump to widespread human transmission.

---

KodyKeir posted...

You were likely one of the earlier cases then, before we really knew what we were dealing with; it's likely your doctors have already flagged your case for review by the CDC, (NIH, or whatever you have there) but maybe mention it to your GP in case it got lost in the flood of cases. I don't know what, if any samples were preserved at the time, but on the off chance there is something there to test, it's better to look and not find it, than to have it and not know about it.

An early sample of the virus pathogenesis from an area other then China at that early stage would encourage China to cooperate in the WHO's investigation into the origins of the virus and the origin of the jump to widespread human transmission.

I doubt it. I've never had a high opinion of that particular doctors office I only went cause I needed a note for work.

Its only been in recent history ive found a medical facility in actually impressed with.

I mean im sure duke was good but I was like 8 or 9 when I went there. Duke is supposed to be one of the best anyways

---