Current Events > Making female character too female like is really an issue.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Okay I assumed that this was just some bull shit youtubers side to the get more people clicks. But there are really people in the game and I am guessing other industries complaining about the Female characters looking too much like females. And this was is about a furry. So most people would not even have been longing over her any way. This dude is trying to link people trying to make a character look more female to assault and other sexual violence.

Below is a writer/game dev fighting to make sure a character doesn't look like woman.

The argument basically broke down like this:

The game director and art director wanted her to have a visibly, fairly stereotypically feminine look.

The lead writer, the lead character TD, and I wanted to keep her as-is.

This is where things get into territory that men like myself in gamedev need to pay REALLY FUCKING CLOSE ATTENTION.

The lead writer was a woman. The lead character TD was a trans person who, at the time, had not transitioned.

Everyone else in the discussion was a white cis male.

At the time the argument occurred, there were two women and one female-presenting trans person on the team. That trans person had lived their life up to that point as a woman, and had the lived experience thereof.

Everyone else on the 20+ person team was a man.

So.

Two thirds of the women on the team, as well as one cis white man (me), were telling the art director and game lead that Rivet should not, as an alien space fox, have wide hips and titties.

We believed that:

1. It went against the message of the game, which is that anyone can be a hero regardless of how they look
2. You don't need to be stereotypically feminine to be a woman
3. RIVET IS A FUCKING ALIEN SPACE FOX, JUST LIKE RATCHET

https://twitter.com/xavierck3d/status/1418061075438706692

Character in question.



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Twitter is an absolutely awful vehicle for these kinds of discussions
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cjsdowg posted...

And this was is about a furry. So most people would not even have been longing over her any way.

I'm not sure about that one, cheif. Like, even if it's not "most", per say, 45% is still quite large...

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If you don't push back on the tiny little things, like giving Rivet tits, you're essentially saying that those things don't matter.

Yes I will explicitly state that a video game developer wanting to give their anthropomorphic vidya protagonist an immediately identifiable female frame does not matter.

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Did you even read what you posted?

Wait what are we mad about now?

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Think it's a little weird to look at a pic of Rivet and as a director/art director say "she needs bigger tits and ass" lol like does she really tho
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CyricZ posted...

Wait what are we mad about now?

Something furries, something women having breasts

I've gathered the local sjw's but we're confused by what you want us to do.

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How about we, as a collective society, stop listening to the demented crazies. Once we dont give them any attention or platform, they'll crawl back into whatever lonely hole they slithered out from.

Edit: I'm also blocked by that guy. Never had I have had any arguments before with people on twitter, let alone even interact with him specifically. Leading me to believe that he has those bots who automatically block people who follow the "wrong" accounts. Further solidifying the fact that he's a crazy.

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CyricZ posted...

Wait what are we mad about now?

Nothing to be mad about. I just found it funny how this is guy is a having a drag out battle to de-feminize a character , and blaming the people who wanted to give her a butt on literal sexual assault.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Think it's a little weird to look at a pic of Rivet and as a director/art director say "she needs bigger tits and ass" lol like does she really tho

yeah

woohoo its rivet

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We need to push for her to be anatomically correct for a space fox, that means 6 tits!

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What tits?

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I'm glad they didn't listen.

Rivet is a qt

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You cant win here.

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Were_Wyrm posted...

We need to push for her to be anatomically correct for a space fox, that means 6 tits!

Unironically this

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Okay from what I've been able to piece together my opinion is the following:

1. Having a balance of perspectives in the creative process is important and gamedev is legendarily terrible at this.
2. Having more women in this particular discussion would not necessarily have resulted in a Rivet without feminine features.
3. As none of us were in that room, we can't know for sure how these decisions all went down. Could have been toxic af. Could have been respectful and ultimately democratic.

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Rivet is great as she was. Good they pushed back on making her sexy, don't need to go full board oh anthropomorphising animal like characters.

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I am so glad that Xavier person no longer works at Insomniac. Sounds like he would be a nightmare to deal with in a work environment.

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Wtf was that about sexual assault? Giving a raccoon tits leads to sexual assault now?! I'm gonna need some actual proof of this, I've put tits on many a raccoon (human tits btw) in my day and they actually make sexual assault rates go down since they love being groped

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The hell is happening at Insomniac these days?

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Protopet posted...

The hell is happening at Insomniac these days?

Sony in general has been doing stupid things like this the past few years, so it's not surprising to find devs from their studios who are insane.

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cjsdowg posted...

This dude is trying to link people trying to make a character look more female to assault and other sexual violence.

I... don't see anything discussing assault or worse. Was that brought up elsewhere?

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Give Rivy the titty

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cjsdowg posted...

Nothing to be mad about. I just found it funny how this is guy is a having a drag out battle to de-feminize a character , and blaming the people who wanted to give her a butt on literal sexual assault.

But it's the opposite, she started out non-sexualized and the women of the team wanted to keep her that way but a few weirdos kept insisting they change the furry girl to be sexier.

Is this what anti-sjws get outraged about? Non-sexy furry girls?

Background_Guy posted...

But it's the opposite, she started out non-sexualized and the women of the team wanted to keep her that way but a few weirdos kept insisting they change the furry girl to be sexier.

Is this what anti-sjws get outraged about? Non-sexy furry girls?

What? It reads more like the game and art director wanted to have a character that you can tell at a glance is supposed to be a female character and then a few people on the writing staff got upset because girls don't have to be feminine to be heroes.

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is it so wrong to have huge swinging jugs

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She needs bigger tits and ass

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ThePrinceFish posted...

What? It reads more like the game and art director wanted to have a character that you can tell at a glance is supposed to be a female character

By giving the animal more visible tits?

ledbowman posted...

is it so wrong to have huge swinging jugs

only if you can throw them over your shoulder.

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Unironically if you're on the opinion of "this furry rat should be easier for me to jerk off to" you shouldn't count as human anymore.

Background_Guy posted...

By giving the animal more visible tits?

Yes? I imagine as the art director was thinking "how can I make this space fox look more obviously like a female space fox" he noticed that the way everyone ever does that is by making their frame more feminine in accordance with what his human audience expects a female frame to look. With more bust and waist than Ratchet has.

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I don't care about whatever social commentary this is about but if outside influences want to alter the original writer's intentions I consider that censorship whether it's removing or adding features they didn't intend.
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GiftedACIII posted...

I don't care about whatever social commentary this is about but if outside influences want to alter the original writer's intentions I consider that censorship whether it's removing or adding features they didn't intend.

this

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Umbreon posted...

I... don't see anything discussing assault or worse. Was that brought up elsewhere?

Sorry I thought I pasted it. But at the end of this rant (or whatever) he tied this whole thing into the sexual assaults that were happening at Activision
.

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We should protect Femininity in all things. It's important that those who dislike this, and are a minority, are please. And most stay with a world full of Femininity in all aspect of life.

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GiftedACIII posted...

I don't care about whatever social commentary this is about but if outside influences want to alter the original writer's intentions I consider that censorship whether it's removing or adding features they didn't intend.

I counter that with the notion that video games are not works spawned from a single person (most of the time). They're a collaborative effort. To imply that only the head writer should have a say in the creative effort is to discount the character designer, the dialogue writer, the art director, the voice actor, etc.

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@Turbam

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I think it was the right decision. Rivet looks way better without a pointlessly added chest area. You can tell she's like, a girl because of stuff like the lighter fur colour. She shouldn't look that different from Ratchet.

In a more pedantic way, if a space rat is anything like earth-rodents, she isn't going to have visible boobs unless she's either super pregnant or have just given birth. I don't want my animal characters to be that anthropomorphic.

I find that twitter thread odd when he posted stuff like this :




Seems he's just trying to artificially create controversy over something that didn't seem like a big deal all that recently ago.

RustyFerret posted...

Seems he's just trying to artificially create controversy over something that didn't seem like a big deal all that recently ago.

If nothing else, well done on the research.

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I never knew people used mommy Milkers out side of this board.

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CyricZ posted...

I counter that with the notion that video games are not works spawned from a single person (most of the time). They're a collaborative effort. To imply that only the head writer should have a say in the creative effort is to discount the character designer, the dialogue writer, the art director, the voice actor, etc.

I believe whoever created the concept first is the most important. Sounds like the writers and character designer had already thought up the concept and design with how it works in the story with the art director telling them later to change it.
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tc is just trying to create more furries

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RustyFerret posted...

I find that twitter thread odd when he posted stuff like this :




Seems he's just trying to artificially create controversy over something that didn't seem like a big deal all that recently ago.

You're annoyed because he thinks different characters should have different designs? In both cases he's just supporting the writers' intent. People ITT are just looking for things to get outraged about.

Also wtf looking for year old tweets just to own this guy for not supporting furries enough.

Background_Guy posted...

You're annoyed because he thinks different characters should have different designs? In both cases he's just supporting the writers' intent. People ITT are just looking for things to get outraged about.

Also wtf looking for year old tweets just to own this guy for not supporting furries enough.

No, just pointing out he's being a hypocrite for drama.

Also, there's a thread on reddit about it, so didn't have to dig hard for old tweets.

Background_Guy posted...

You're annoyed because he thinks different characters should have different designs? In both cases he's just supporting the writers' intent. People ITT are just looking for things to get outraged about.

Also wtf looking for year old tweets just to own this guy for not supporting furries enough.

Dude this isn't about furries. This guy claim that them wanting to make her "Sexy" lead to real life harassment to women. That is the main issues that bugged me about the post.

No one is going to look at the old Lola Bunny then go harass a women because it.

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