Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic Part 507: The Peacemaker's Here

(+) Yeah! (+)

Who would you cut if you were them?

The one guy who stands out as a waste to me is Andrade, especially now, but I dont know how much of the stalling with him is due to not messing with Triplemania

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One of the reasons so much of the talent is over is because of those story-light programs that allow lower card talent to get wins.

And I really have to say, featuring someone on TV every week doesn't make them a star. Case in point - WWE.

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https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/1421861476298485763?s=21

I can't possibly imagine this is true.

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He was specifically referring to ticket sales I think

Like Raw is sold out 12k+ tonight. That wasnt happening often before!

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Jakyl25 posted...

Who would you cut if you were them?

The one guy who stands out as a waste to me is Andrade, especially now, but I dont know how much of the stalling with him is due to not messing with Triplemania

Off the top of my head the number one guy that does nothing of value on screen in AEW is Luther, guy is just awkward and stumbly and everything he does looks awful. Marko Stunt is bad and doesn't fit into the Jurassic Express very well (granted it seems like he's been getting phased out in importance already). In my ideal world Luchasaurus goes because he sucks but his gimmick is probably good for merch sales and kids and he's fine as long as he's just backup/hot tag for Jungle Boy so cutting him would obviously be a bad idea. I don't know what Shawn Spears even does besides be the most transparent "just here to eat pins" faction member ever. I'm not knowledgeable enough about their full roster of guys who mostly exist on Youtube to say which are good enough to keep but you could cut out the bottom 10-15 of them without affecting the show at all beyond the next lowest guys losing an extra five minute match per month to compensate. Largely the problem isn't the quality or potential to get over but just that they have so many people that even if you like someone, you might not see them again for ages. That problem is especially bad with the women's division, though that's not a roster problem I guess and more of a "does Tony Khan remember he has one of those?" problem

scarletspeed7 posted...

One of the reasons so much of the talent is over is because of those story-light programs that allow lower card talent to get wins.

And I really have to say, featuring someone on TV every week doesn't make them a star. Case in point - WWE.

Featuring someone doesn't make them a star, but it's also very hard to become a star if you're very rarely featured and don't get sustained momentum when you are. Look at Scorpio Sky - AEW does their whole "brass ring" Sonic donut match to parody Vince McMahon's reputation for not pushing people who deserve it, he wins, then...he loses his title match, has a heel turn, misses several Dynamites while supposedly feuding with the TNT champ and has to jump Darby three times before the latter even acknowledges him, then just becomes Ethan Page's background buddy for *his* feud with Darby. Like they tried to make a joke about how they'll push talented people and then could barely find time for the guy. Or to go to the women's division again, from what I saw online the Shida/Tay Conti title match was pretty well received and did good ratings. If you liked it...well woops, because one of those people hasn't been on TV since and the other hasn't been since she lost the title to Britt Baker (and was often not on TV or stuck in the pandemic crowd during her own title reign). Pretty hard to feel like these people are a big deal when you barely even seen them.

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I would get this criticism for WWE, which, again, has no over talent aside from Roman and Cena at the moment, but for a company that is extremely hot? It feels like needless armchair quarterbacking.

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I would cut Janela first.

I dont feel like he adds anything at this point.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

I would get this criticism for WWE, which, again, has no over talent aside from Roman and Cena at the moment, but for a company that is extremely hot? It feels like needless armchair quarterbacking.

What exactly defines hot or over here? Nothing in AEW attracts nearly as many viewers as what Raw or Smackdown do, and in terms of social media engagement and stuff like youtube views the gap gets a lot wider. Like you're really arguing that AEW Dark with its 200-300k weekly viewership is a legit place to help people make feel like stars but a really bad Raw segment still being 5+ times that and more than Dynamite can come close to means the entire show is irrelevant? WWE isn't even relevant to discussing AEW's roster but if you want to bring it in it's far more popular than AEW is so why is the latter's popularity enough to make them unassailable if the former's isn't?

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Panthera posted...

What exactly defines hot or over here? Nothing in AEW attracts nearly as many viewers as what Raw or Smackdown do, and in terms of social media engagement and stuff like youtube views the gap gets a lot wider. Like you're really arguing that AEW Dark with its 200-300k weekly viewership is a legit place to help people make feel like stars but a really bad Raw segment still being 5+ times that and more than Dynamite can come close to means the entire show is irrelevant? WWE isn't even relevant to discussing AEW's roster but if you want to bring it in it's far more popular than AEW is so why is the latter's popularity enough to make them unassailable if the former's isn't?

If I remember correctly, Youtube views for WWE stuff is normally from other countries (and if I remember even further, their Youtube numbers from India were exclusively why they wanted to branch out there before).

But all you need to do is look at demo ratings to see where the actual excitement is. AEW by far has more momentum going for it, and those are numbers not counting the DVR numbers, which Meltzer has said are ridiculously high.

They literally plucked Jungle Boy back and threw him into the swing of things out of nowhere and people went nuts for him all over again. So I don't think there's a tremendous mismanagement of talent, and it's clear they've been biding their time for Rampage, where they get another hour to showcase their talent to a wider audience. Another hour will help them tremendously. But the fact that they can slide in a lot of these guys into Dynamite after them not being featured for a while and they're still getting more bombastic reactions than probably 95% of the WWE guys says a ton.

I do think it's a bit weird to criticize it a ton here since... well, it's working?

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Did you WANT an extended Scorpio Sky push?


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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

If I remember correctly, Youtube views for WWE stuff is normally from other countries (and if I remember even further, their Youtube numbers from India were exclusively why they wanted to branch out there before).

WWE having a global audience that AEW lacks is a point in favour of them being more relevant, not against it

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

But all you need to do is look at demo ratings to see where the actual excitement is. AEW by far has more momentum going for it, and those are numbers not counting the DVR numbers, which Meltzer has said are ridiculously high.

No, you don't need to look at a subset of the audience to decide which has a bigger audience and wider reach. Especially when there's a distinct tendency to pick whichever age/gender category within the 18-49 range AEW does best in and call it "the demo" (ie AEW outdid Raw in like, men 18-35 or something a week or two ago? And this became "AEW won the demo!" even though the actual demo rating was still in Raw's favour). I also really doubt AEW is the only company getting anyone to watch via DVR.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I do think it's a bit weird to criticize it a ton here since... well, it's working?

We (as in the internet wrestling community collectively here, rather than any specific members of it) have been criticizing the WWE relentlessly for decades while they have generally become more and more successful. AEW's current TV deal is supposedly 175 million over 4 years, WWE just reported quarterly revenue of 265 million. By every metric beyond personal preference for the TV show WWE is working vastly better than AEW. Which isn't even a knock on AEW, they've been about as successful as you could realistically expect, just a statement of how well the WWE is doing for itself and the position they've set themselves up to be in with decades of brand recognition and a massive content library to offer. So I'm not seeing why AEW can't be criticized in three posts (this is not exactly a ton) if we can have a 507 topic series that has probably been a good 60% WWE criticism.

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If theres one thing Ive learned from these topics, its that WWE can do nothing right, and AEW can do nothing wrong.

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Panthera posted...

WWE having a global audience that AEW lacks is a point in favour of them being more relevant, not against it

I mean, if they tried to expand into India with these giant YouTube numbers being the reason, then they completely and utterly failed to gather an audience when they purposefully tried to cater to them, I'd say there isn't much relevance there after all.

Panthera posted...

No, you don't need to look at a subset of the audience to decide which has a bigger audience and wider reach. Especially when there's a distinct tendency to pick whichever age/gender category within the 18-49 range AEW does best in and call it "the demo" (ie AEW outdid Raw in like, men 18-35 or something a week or two ago? And this became "AEW won the demo!" even though the actual demo rating was still in Raw's favour). I also really doubt AEW is the only company getting anyone to watch via DVR.

I'm talking momentum. RAW and Smackdown's demo keeps going down. AEW's is still rising. Who cares more about the shows in that case? Hell, just general ratings as well. Cena came back and the ratings spiked before plummeting again. AEW has been doing their shows and they're doing consistently good numbers without needing to drag arguably the last biggest star of wrestling back. Granted, they're probably getting Punk and Danielson here, so expect ratings to rocket even more. Hard to say if they'll sustain or not, but at the very least AEW is doing far better at retaining interest and investment right now than WWE is, or else their ratings would be more consistent.

Additionally, Meltzer has stated that AEW's DVR numbers were very impressive compared to WWE's.

Panthera posted...

We (as in the internet wrestling community collectively here, rather than any specific members of it) have been criticizing the WWE relentlessly for decades while they have generally become more and more successful. AEW's current TV deal is supposedly 175 million over 4 years, WWE just reported quarterly revenue of 265 million. By every metric beyond personal preference for the TV show WWE is working vastly better than AEW. Which isn't even a knock on AEW, they've been about as successful as you could realistically expect, just a statement of how well the WWE is doing for itself and the position they've set themselves up to be in with decades of brand recognition and a massive content library to offer. So I'm not seeing why AEW can't be criticized in three posts (this is not exactly a ton) if we can have a 507 topic series that has probably been a good 60% WWE criticism.

Hey man, go off. I'm just saying some of your criticisms seem pretty unfounded when they're directly contradicted by what's going on.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I'm talking momentum. RAW and Smackdown's demo keeps going down. AEW's is still rising. Who cares more about the shows in that case? Hell, just general ratings as well. Cena came back and the ratings spiked before plummeting again. AEW has been doing their shows and they're doing consistently good numbers without needing to drag arguably the last biggest star of wrestling back. Granted, they're probably getting Punk and Danielson here, so expect ratings to rocket even more. Hard to say if they'll sustain or not, but at the very least AEW is doing far better at retaining interest and investment right now than WWE is, or else their ratings would be more consistent.

They're doing better at retaining way less interest! AEW would love to be boring enough to consistently be watched by significantly more people than even their debut, by far their most viewed episode, was seen by.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Hey man, go off. I'm just saying some of your criticisms seem pretty unfounded when they're directly contradicted by what's going on.

I'm just saying I don't see why AEW being successful makes my criticism of them invalid when WWE being successful has never stopped me before

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They're doing better at retaining way less interest! AEW would love to be boring enough to consistently be watched by significantly more people than even their debut, by far their most viewed episode, was seen by.

This sort of shortsighted attitude would get you thrown out of any business meeting in the world except, perhaps, one that takes place in WWE.

And I haven't watched a single AEW show from beginning to end since the first episode of Dynamite so don't come at me with an accusation of bias.

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Panthera posted...

They're doing better at retaining way less interest! AEW would love to be boring enough to consistently be watched by significantly more people than even their debut, by far their most viewed episode, was seen by.

I'm just saying I don't see why AEW being successful makes my criticism of them invalid when WWE being successful has never stopped me before

Panthera, you have skipped over every salient point I made about your complaints making no sense. I clearly said that your criticism is contradicted by reality, whereas you seem to be taking that as "I'm not allowed to complain because they're successful."

Like you're arguing that plummeting ratings and interest in an increasingly more stagnant product is more appealing to people than a product that is constantly hot and getting more viewership, or staying the same.

AEW would not want to be in a fucking freefall of ratings that even bringing on John fucking Cena can't save them from. Because WWE has no momentum to speak of because they do nothing but put on a shitty product that is actively pushing people away.

AEW is getting more people to come over, and they're only a year old. Imagine if they keep up the quality, with Punk and Bryan, in a year how these ratings will look. I think they'll be happier then.

Anyway, you've abandoned almost every original point you had so I'm outtie.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Anyway, you've abandoned almost every original point you had so I'm outtie.

You haven't fucking addressed a single point I originally made! You jumped onto an aside that I only went on to address why I don't think AEW being successful means what I said doesn't make sense. I didn't even fucking talk about the WWE until scarlet kept bringing it up so I wanted to address why I didn't think his comparison and assessment of the two added up, and even then I specifically said that WWE isn't relevant to AEW's roster being bloated or not to convey that my point was about AEW, not some comparison of it and the WWE. You then jumped on that point and I've been replying to you since. You're literally diverting onto a side point that I specified I didn't think was too relevant so you can bitch at me for responding to you instead of ignoring everything you said to go back to something you never showed any interest in discussion holy shit.

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Panthera posted...

You haven't fucking addressed a single point I originally made! You jumped onto an aside that I only went on to address why I don't think AEW being successful means what I said doesn't make sense. I didn't even fucking talk about the WWE until scarlet kept bringing it up so I wanted to address why I didn't think his comparison and assessment of the two added up, and even then I specifically said that WWE isn't relevant to AEW's roster being bloated or not to convey that my point was about AEW, not some comparison of it and the WWE. You then jumped on that point and I've been replying to you since. You're literally diverting onto a side point that I specified I didn't think was too relevant so you can bitch at me for responding to you instead of ignoring everything you said to go back to something you never showed any interest in discussion holy shit.

Panthera posted...

They struggle to even find TV time for a lot of the people they're supposedly high on, large chunks of their roster spend weeks or months at a time doing nothing but the occasional jobber squash on a youtube show where the commentary team doesn't even treat it like it's very serious, they have a ton of factions and some of them are weirdly large as if it's just a way to feature more people, Dynamite tends to move at a break neck pace with pre- and post-match brawls everywhere and cutting from segment to segment super fast so they can squeeze more talent onto each show, they can barely find time for the women's division at all except cramming it in at the last minute (granted that problem is likely caused by more than just roster size), etc. I think it's pretty hard to deny their roster is bloated when they struggle to feature anyone beyond the top stars consistently, give people supposed break out moments only for them to vanish from TV for a while and do so despite a booking philosophy that seems geared towards trying to find reason to fit as many onto a show as they can.

Dark and Elevation don't really help much because neither is watched all that much and both are very heavy on jobber squashes and light on stories, especially story progression for big names. It's just hard to feel like an appearance carries much weight when it's on a show where nothing much of consequence happens. Elevation is like, Main Event/205 Live tier at most for a WWE comparison and Dark is beneath that. I cite the upcoming Rampage because it's televised and it sounds like they intend to treat it at least close to Dynamite in status.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

They literally plucked Jungle Boy back and threw him into the swing of things out of nowhere and people went nuts for him all over again. So I don't think there's a tremendous mismanagement of talent, and it's clear they've been biding their time for Rampage, where they get another hour to showcase their talent to a wider audience. Another hour will help them tremendously. But the fact that they can slide in a lot of these guys into Dynamite after them not being featured for a while and they're still getting more bombastic reactions than probably 95% of the WWE guys says a ton.

I do think it's a bit weird to criticize it a ton here since... well, it's working?

???

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Honestly cool with a big lower/mid card. Dark matches are actually really important to get the crowd invested before the major shows and AEW has done a pretty great job at keeping the matchups fresh on their major shows. And well, sadly not everyone can be a main eventer.

Theres a few weaknesses (The womens division is really underdeveloped and the tag division has felt a little stale lately but it could just be me not liking the Bucks much) but I think they can squeeze the space with certain wrestlers getting different matches each week and a segment that can advance specific feuds.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

AEW is getting more people to come over, and they're only a year old.

Two years old, actually. That being said, still accurate.

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All Ill say is this:

If you get a lot of different people over, its better to pick your spots with them than to feel forced to use all of them in big moments every week.

People wont forget Hangman Page if hes off a week if its not his time for a push. You cant feature everyone youre high on every week, and that doesnt mean the roster is bloated.

Look at how theyve cycled Moxley down after the loss to Archer as a perfect example of how to do this right. Now hell start to cycle back up again for the match with Tanahashi.

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LiquidOshawott posted...

Honestly cool with a big lower/mid card. Dark matches are actually really important to get the crowd invested before the major shows and AEW has done a pretty great job at keeping the matchups fresh on their major shows. And well, sadly not everyone can be a main eventer.

Theres a few weaknesses (The womens division is really underdeveloped and the tag division has felt a little stale lately but it could just be me not liking the Bucks much) but I think they can squeeze the space with certain wrestlers getting different matches each week and a segment that can advance specific feuds.

The womens division has this issue where they only have 6 people worth a damn (Britt Baker, Tay Conti, Hikaru Shida, Kris Statlander, Thunder Rosa, Serena Deeb) and 4 of them are babyfaces. The non-champion heel is out with another knee injury.

Your next two borderline people in terms of worth-a-damn who are heels are Nyla (who just had an incredibly sloppy outing and shouldn't be losing all the time), Jade (who they are protecting and going slow with).

So the actual heels they have available who can put over Rosa, Statlander, Shida and Conti are: The Bunny, Diamante, Penelope Ford. Theyre clearly waiting til Kips back to use Ford and Diamante is feuding with Big Swole. This is why they use the Bunny so much on TV lately. This is how you get odd face/face matches featuring Leyla or Julia Hart. Its either Bunny, a babyface or an enhancement talent (like KiLynn King or Dani Jordyn)

Its not great. This is really where they miss Emi Sakura Jaime Hayter and Bea Priestley

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You forgot Riho!

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Well unless they're turning Riho heel the problem remains!

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https://twitter.com/SoDuTw/status/1422434409664466944?s=19

AEW released Mel

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Does AEW need their own version of the future endeavors schtick? "It has come to out attention that Mel no longer qualifies as Elite"

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Nameless2000 posted...

Does AEW need their own version of the future endeavors schtick? "It has come to out attention that Mel no longer qualifies as Elite"

"Mel is all released"?

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All Elite Release

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All Released Wrestling or ARWing for short.

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Adam Cole has apparently turned now every contract offer WWE has made so far.

He gone.

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Cole's so into streaming on Twitch these days that I wouldn't be surprised if that's the actual deal breaker for him.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Cole's so into streaming on Twitch these days that I wouldn't be surprised if that's the actual deal breaker for him.

That or the fact that he literally can't appear in the crowd to support his girlfriend or vice versa.

Also random fact: I learned today that the head writer for NXT is named Russo.

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Also Fightful is reporting the opposite: WWE hasn't offered any long term deal to Cole. The rumor I got was from PW Unlimited.

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Clearly they can't afford him long term. They need to cut costs so they can afford Goldberg for 1 horrible match every year.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Also Fightful is reporting the opposite: WWE hasn't offered any long term deal to Cole. The rumor I got was from PW Unlimited.

Both could be correct if they have only offered short term deals that Cole has turned down.

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Max Castor had his latest rap cut from AEW Dark.

The Acclaimed kicking ass for miles, make you claim mental health like Simone Biles
The Sydals gonna pay the cost, Im gonna treat those bitches like Duke lacrosse
The Blondes say they the best but those dudes are faker than a PCR test
And whats that smell here in North Carolina, oh wait thats Julias...

That's, uh, quite the range of topics there. And ending by talking about a 19 year old's genitals is quite the kicker.

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Lol Fuckin dork

I cant even with this supposed scandal because most of the people that are mad are getting worked by the Julia thing

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Eddv posted...

Lol Fuckin dork

I cant even with this supposed scandal because most of the people that are mad are getting worked by the Julia thing

Pretty sure most people I've seen upset about it are making light of the Simone Biles part. Same with people being pissed at Charlotte for bringing it up during her promo.

It's generally not a good idea to use a sexual assault victim's mental health struggles as a way to get heat. Just a thought.

Edit: Tony Kahn himself said it was trash and would be editing Dark going forward.

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Haven't watched wrestling in almost a year but I will just say this

Dudes who you want to get over appearing on TV every week is what makes WWE feel stale and if you think that AEW not showing their guys they're pushing on TV every week is a mistake you forget how late 90s wrestling was structured and probably are playing too much TEW

The only guys who should be there every week are the absolute top acts. And you don't even need every top act on TV either. Just enough to create hype for the show

The undercard? Push as many as you can but gradually. People won't forget they exist if they're only on every other week I promise

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Like seriously

Jack Evans. Super nothing lower card guy.

I love Jack Evans. Back when I was watching some episodes and not all religiously, I would go out of my way to watch AEW episodes with Jack Evans.

He no longer serves as a draw to me watching the show if you have him on every episode, you know?

I remember back late 90s WCW I would get excited to see MORTIS. He wasn't on NEARLY every week.

Who has WWE had that has that kinda draw for me in the past 15 years?

Like, no one, man. They're either always on TV or never on TV.

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I was never a fan of the Judas Effect, but the top rope version looked pretty nice tonight.

Also, I have no idea what the fuck Cody is doing anymore. His storylines have been the fucking pits lately.

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TheRock1525 posted...

I was never a fan of the Judas Effect, but the top rope version looked pretty nice tonight.

Also, I have no idea what the fuck Cody is doing anymore. His storylines have been the fucking pits lately.

Imagine being a wrestling fan and being this fucking stupid.

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Adam Cole isn't the only person with their NXT deal coming up soon. Fightful Select has learned that Pete Dunne's NXT contract is also up soon, with one source also pointing to "after Summerslam weekend," though we haven't confirmed that date with Dunne or WWE as of yet.

Fightful has heard that the situation was "similar to that of Adam Cole's" but haven't been given any additional details besides that his contract is in fact coming up soon. We haven't been told if Dunne's contract actually expired as Cole's did, leading to a short-term extension. We'll work to gain more details.

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Are all the Indie guys going to leave NXT and then they'll finally have to do that developing thing? You know, take actual non wrestlers and develop them into wrestlers?

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AEW just did its highest demo rating since their debut episode.

And this is all before Punk and Danielson debut.

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Why is WWE so obsessed with championship contender matches where they already fight the champion?

Doesnt that just make those matches redundant?

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WWE sources have indicated that Adam Cole is scheduled to be backstage at tonight's episode of WWE Smackdown for what is being called a "high level meeting" with Vince McMahon. We have not been told that Cole is planned to appear on the show

Fightful Select

"Hey, pal! What's your thoughts on the 24/7 championship?"

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Another round of releases, this time all NXT:

• Bronson Reed
• Bobby Fish
• Tyler Rust
• Leon Ruff
• Jake Atlas
• Ari Sterling
• Kona Reeves
• Mercedes Martinez
• Zachariah Smith
• Asher Hale
• Giant Zanjeer
• Stephon Smith

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Vince just hates Hunter now

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Apparently tonight during RAW they played a video of Mick Foley and Steve Austin talking about how awesome the Fiend is.

Then Bray Wyatt tweeted "You can't kill it."

Make of it what you will.

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