Poll of the Day > DEMOCRAT says she was HORRIFIED to see a WOMAN with PENIS at an ASIAN SPA!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sahuagin posted...

the rooms are segregated based on gender, not sex. I have no idea if that's right or not, but that's how it is.

my position is basically, organize the rooms however you want, just tell people how you're organizing them. for a person to end up in this situation, it means that that was not clearly conveyed, which regardless of right or wrong, should be something we want to avoid.

I can certainly agree with that, in fact that is what I have been saying, she should have been warned ahead of time, and the fact that male/sex based women could be naked in the spa with female/sex based women should have been identified to any potential customers.

I'm 100% for having multi-gender spas, even with kids etc, as long as the people going into the spa know about it ahead of time. If you want to do so, that is on you. I certainly am not against nudist colonies etc, to each their own. I wouldn't mind naked women in the same spa as me either.

IF I had kids though, especially daughters (and I don't care if that is sexist) I would not want them in a multi-sex spa, at least until they are older. Because their are pedophiles out there etc, I wouldn't have them in a SAME sex nude spa either, and I would always be with them in a changing room, or I would use a family changing room if it was available (and most YMCA's etc do have those).

That is me though, I ain't putting my own beliefs on other people. I do think that everyone should have knowledge of such things though, and that definitions need to be freaking universally spread around. Many people still think a Womens bathroom means female junk only, and same for a spa etc......if that is NOT the case then anyone entering into an establishment where it isn't the case should certainly be warned.


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I'm gonna take my kids to the farm!

**WARNING, HORSE PARTS IN THIS VIDEO**

https://youtu.be/bOvEmwYT-xI

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Sahuagin posted...

no because the issue would still exist if a woman entered a unisex spa without realizing that there would be male nudity. trans is not the problem at all. being able to enter a situation with opposite-sex nudity without realizing (or wanting) it is the problem.

Fundamentally, trans acceptance means expecting opposite-sex nudity wherever same-sex nudity is expected, without specifically calling attention to that. The entirety of this problem boils down to a question of trans acceptance and the changes that need to take place in societal expectations to effect that goal.

Sahuagin posted...

because there is an implicit agreement between people that they will generally not be exposed to nudity without their consent, even to the degree that in the majority of environments it would be illegal to do so; whereas there are no such generally accepted rules regarding random cartoon characters.

Precisely. It's not a question of anything inherently harmful, it's a question of social norms. It's normal to freak out about a dick in the ladies' room, but not normal to freak out about surprise Spongebob.

There is, however, no intrinsic basis for that norm. Non-sexual nudity being seen as sexual is a decision on the part of the beholder (based, again, on social norms and cultural conditioning), not anything actually inherent in nudity. That means that norm can be changed. Given the general lack of benefits to maintaining it/harms in changing it (I think I've asked for examples of harm and been met with silence enough times now to say that it would be harmless), coupled with the whole "less suicide" thing as a benefit to changing it, I feel quite comfortable saying that it should be changed.

Is that going to happen overnight? Of course not. But it's not going to happen at all if people like this don't have their reactions challenged. In the mean time, signs saying "trans-inclusive" to help inform patrons would probably not be a bad idea, but that can't be a long-term solution because truly accepting trans people means not singling them out like that.

wolfy42 posted...

This would be especially important for horny teenagers for instance, do you think it's a good idea for a bunch of teens to be in multi-junk based hot tubs naked?

Are lesbians a problem in a hot tub full of naked girls? Because that's something that already happens. Likewise with gay men.

Yes, teenagers are a horny bunch, but nudity is only as sexual as we make it. Most of the reason teenagers get so excited by it is because it's put on a pedestal as being a forbidden, sexy thing. Normalize it, and it stops being an issue (see: unisex bathrooms in many college dorms). Anything bad that might be inspired by nudity (e.g. rape) can still be punished as needed without needing to forbid nudity as a proxy for that.

wolfy42 posted...

Obviously that is the entire point of defining it, based on junk.

They are not splitting up the rooms based on what gender someone feels like. The point is to keep people with different junk seperate.

Yes, that is how it works. But why does it need to work that way? I would agree that, if it's not being segregated based on junk, there's not much other reason to segregate them at all, but given that there's also not much need to segregate by junk, I think that should just call bathroom (et al) segregation into question overall (which would make this a moot point).

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my mom claims that multi-stall unisex bathrooms would be gross and that mens bathrooms are more unhygienic

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If only that were the case

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This whole thing reminds me of when some chick would lie about the local black boy being horny over her and then a bunch of troglodytes go murder him. :-/

Story is probably manufactured just to stir up trouble and no one should give a fuck, but bigots can never resist.

Naruto_fan_42 posted...

my mom claims that multi-stall unisex bathrooms would be gross and that mens bathrooms are more unhygienic

Ask school janitors what they think about that, lol. My cousin had the opposite position after he did that job for a couple months.

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Naruto_fan_42 posted...

my mom claims that multi-stall unisex bathrooms would be gross and that mens bathrooms are more unhygienic

Womens bathroom can be really bad, though. Many people I know say theyre worse
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adjl posted...

Fundamentally, trans acceptance means expecting opposite-sex nudity wherever same-sex nudity is expected

not convinced of this, but I think it's too dangerous to argue further.

adjl posted...

There is, however, no intrinsic basis for that norm

there are definitely biological and psychological reasons for that norm. it's not arbitrary. it depends how far you're taking "intrinsic". if you take it all the way to nihilism, fine, there's no intrinsic basis for anything in our culture. but that's ridiculous and destroys morality as a concept.

and regardless, the norm exists, and we know it exists, and we know what we can and can't do in that sense to offend (harm) others. morality is about coexisting with other people and if other people don't want to be around nudity, then you honor that.

at least at this moment, I am of the opinion that it's other's right not to be exposed to my nudity; it is not my right to be able to expose others to nudity against their will, in basically any context. even in a situation where it would be normal/excepted, it's still a discomfort and something I would apologize for.

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