Board 8 > SaveEstelle & LeonhartFour in New Houses: Legendary Edition [SELF]

(+) Yeah! (+)

The actual Azure final dungeon theme has really grown on me over time. Might actually be my favorite of the series now. (It unfortunately doesn't reappear in Cold Steel, though to be fair it uh...really wouldn't make sense. It's not so far off in style from the Saint Gral Labyrinth* theme though which is also pretty cool.)

*Spoiling this in case Leon doesn't want MUSIC SPOILERS for Azure, but the name itself isn't a spoiler for anything at all.

Mystic Core is also pretty neat though yeah.
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Okay, now I'm ready to tackle the final dungeon for real! Got myself a couple of ultimate weapons, to boot. Also, that fortune teller is totally Lucciola.

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If you take... Sully, I think... to get her fortune told way back when it becomes super obvious. Like even more obvious.

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Loki Season 1 complete!

I wasn't expecting this to end on a cliffhanger like that, but this does a really good job of setting up what Phase 4 and beyond will be about. This show is essential viewing if you're keeping up with the MCU.

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In Azure, I defeated Wald and next I'm headed into Shirley's Domain. This dungeon reminds me a lot of the Liber Ark (which is probably intentional), which is a good thing because that's probably my favorite Trails final dungeon up to this point.

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Closing in on the end of Azure. The fights with Sigmund and Arios lived up to the hype. It was good to finally get the truth of what happened to Guy.

now unless this game has a ten hour epilogue, hopefully I'll be able to finish it tomorrow!

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okay I just saw the trailer for this new M. Night Shyamalan movie and I literally laughed out loud when they reached the title reveal and it was just OLD

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LeonhartFour posted...

okay I just saw the trailer for this new M. Night Shyamalan movie and I literally laughed out loud when they reached the title reveal and it was just OLD

Yeah, lol. I could have sworn I saw a trailer for it earlier but without the mention of Shyamalan but then like two days ago I saw what I assume is the same trailer you did (or maybe it was always there idk) and I kinda laughed.

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Time to give Skyward Sword another shot

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I need to give it a first shot. User SaveEstelle has told me many times that he really enjoyed its story.

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I might be in your shoes right now, except for the stupid Amiibo fast travel thing. I'm willing to wait another 5-10 years to go back to it after hearing about that (if TP HD got ported to Switch, on the other hand...).
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Skyward Sword is the best Zelda game.
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I will probably pick up Skyward Sword HD at some point. Locking Fast Travel behind an Amiibo is one of the most hilariously disgusting moves I've heard of though. Like I'm torn between laughing and being mad.

Speaking of Zelda, after like a month of not playing, I got back to BOTW a bit and am almost, almost done. Explored Hyrule Castle, got all 900 Koroks, upgraded all equipment to max, and am at the tail end of Champions' Ballad I think. Can probably finish it next time I play maybe? Torn between FE Three Houses: DLC + Blue Lions or surprise FFXII: Zodiac Age for after that.

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I've been saying for a long time that Amiibos are glorified microtransactions and now people are starting to come around...!

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I've only bought a few Amiibo and for all of them it was purely because I wanted them as a figurine

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Amiibo are Nintendo's answer to people complaining about Disc Locked Content. "You aren't buying a few bits to unlock an on disc feature, you are buying a figure that happens to also change a few bits to unlock an on disc feature"
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LeonhartFour posted...

I've been saying for a long time that Amiibos are glorified microtransactions and now people are starting to come around...!

People came around before Amiibos even existed! Skylanders started it years before Amiibos, and those were used to unlock whole sections of games.

The SS example is particularly bad, because most of the Amiibo MTX stuff is of the variety nobody cares that much about - minor upgrades, bonus items, costumes, etc. People wouldn't buy that stuff if it were a $2.99 DLC instead of an Amiibo, so it's not a huge deal. Fast travel's an important feature people would be freaking out about if it were regular DLC too, though. Would definitely put this on the ME3 Javik is only DLC level of outrageousness.

Only this is worse because the Amiibo's out of stock everywhere so you can't even buy it...

Mainly I guess it's a win for the people who have one of those Amiibo hacker things so they can get it for free.

Edit: reading about the actual functionality, maybe it's not as big a deal as I thought.
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The game is shaming me for trying to loot NPC houses

Literally unplayable, 8.8/10

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Trails to Azure beated! Pretty solid ending. It was kinda neat getting to meet Guy in that strange reality. Perhaps the wildest thing about the whole sequence is learning KeA actually did change causality so the SSS survived the end of the first game. I generally agree with Lloyd's sentiments toward the end here, but having everyone get killed by Joachim would've been super lame, so in this one instance, I support a rewrite...!

Sky SC > Cold Steel III > Azure > Cold Steel IV > Sky FC > Cold Steel I > Zero > Sky the 3rd > Cold Steel II

Something like that? I feel pretty strongly about the top four, but the other five feel pretty interchangeable.

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Anyway, not sure what I should play next. Don't necessarily want to start anything too serious because I'm going to be out of town the week after next (plus Great Ace Attorney and TWEWY2 will be waiting for me when I get back!). I guess I do need to go back and finish up Super Mario 3D World and beat Bowser's Fury. Or I could get started with DQ8 or something since I plan to just follow a guide on that one anyway.

Actually, this might be a good opportunity to play the new Ratchet & Clank.

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R&C and SM3DW are both great choices!

Azure: felt like Lloyd was being pretty hypocritical at the end there, since he didn't get KeA to undo her rewrite and make them all dead again!

Honestly any time someone in fiction is against that sorta thing is kinda BS IMO. FFTA probably the ultimate example. If you have some sort of great technology/magic that makes the world a better place and makes people happier, use it!
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Mac Arrowny posted...

R&C and SM3DW are both great choices!

Azure: felt like Lloyd was being pretty hypocritical at the end there, since he didn't get KeA to undo her rewrite and make them all dead again!

Honestly any time someone in fiction is against that sorta thing is kinda BS IMO. FFTA probably the ultimate example. If you have some sort of great technology/magic that makes the world a better place and makes people happier, use it!

I mean, he has no memory of being dead, so I kinda get it. And she wouldn't be able to undo the rewrite by the end anyway. But nah, I get where Lloyd is coming from. It's the same thing as the Aureole in Sky SC. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. And in this case, it either ends with Bell forcing KeA to do her bidding against her will or KeA banishing herself from existence like Demiourgos did, both of which nearly happened anyway.

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Azure: Playing it this order means you missed out on all the paranoia that the CS1 Cold Open differences (No Millium and Crow with Class VII) were KeA too and possibly that in the original timeline the railway cannons DID fire. Though Word of God is KeA didn't do anything there IIRC. Zero's Cold Open actually being the original failed timeline before KeA changed causality to get Estelle, Joshua, and Renne there to "fix" things was definitely a cool choice. The Lloyd/Guy scene is maybe my favorite Lloyd moment? Definitely the one that sticks in my mind as the strongest for him at least.

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Ill get that DQ playthrough out of you one day!

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Ill get that DQ playthrough out of you one day!

we're getting closer and closer to the timeline when I can say I've beaten a Dragon Quest game

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Azure: The Zero cold open being the alternate timelines is amazing yes. I never thought that CS1 could be an alternate KeA timeline though, haha (I played Zero/Azure before the CS games).

With the "too good to be true" thing, I feel like a lot of modern technological advances fit that! Especially in the medical field. Vaccines, antibiotics, insulin, etc. have saved an insane number of lives, and would've sounded too good to be true to people hundreds of years ago, but we have them now, and we're much better off with them. I think KeA's powers fit into that category too. It's a bit of a false dichotomy to save we either have KeA do everything for us or nothing - she can help in all sorts of small ways that make the world better as well.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Azure: The Zero cold open being the alternate timelines is amazing yes. I never thought that CS1 could be an alternate KeA timeline though, haha (I played Zero/Azure before the CS games).

With the "too good to be true" thing, I feel like a lot of modern technological advances fit that! Especially in the medical field. Vaccines, antibiotics, insulin, etc. have saved an insane number of lives, and would've sounded too good to be true to people hundreds of years ago, but we have them now, and we're much better off with them. I think KeA's powers fit into that category too. It's a bit of a false dichotomy to save we either have KeA do everything for us or nothing - she can help in all sorts of small ways that make the world better as well.

Nah, that's not the same thing, and that's definitely not how the game presents how it would be used. We aren't talking about things like medical advancements, and Elie even makes that distinction when she says they're playing religion, not politics. This is more the idea that you can theoretically create a world with absolutely zero bad stuff in it where everyone is just happy all the time and all their desires are fulfilled. It's the same escapism fantasy the Aureole presented. Theoretically it sounds great for everyone, but in reality, it doesn't work out that way because in the end, there's someone determining what's good and what's bad. Crossbell rules the world at the expense of Erebonia and Calvard. That's what I mean by "too good to be true" because you aren't going to create a world where absolutely nothing bad happens, just nothing bad that the people in charge don't want to happen.

And yes, theoretically, it would be great to not leave everything up to KeA and just have her do little things here and there, but it probably wouldn't work that way in reality either. I guess it's just a matter if you think humans can be trusted with that level of power, and I generally don't.

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Azure: One of the first things we see KeA do with her expanded powers is cure Shizuku's blindness, and most of the characters don't want to re-blind her after that either. I don't like the idea that it's everything or nothing.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Azure: One of the first things we see KeA do with her expanded powers is cure Shizuku's blindness, and most of the characters don't want to re-blind her after that either. I don't like the idea that it's everything or nothing.

I mean, that's also not an instance of KeA rewriting reality, so it's still not the same thing. Perhaps it shouldn't have to be all or nothing, but it's the choice Bell forces on them. You can either trust her to do what's best for everyone (LOL) or you have to rescue KeA from all of it (or she rescues herself from it because she can't handle the burden, as pretty much any human would be unable to, even an artificially created one). Like, how does she pick and choose when to intervene and when to not? I imagine it's that same dilemma that Demiourgos faced.

And I am sort of with Lloyd in that there's value in overcoming your barriers the hard way instead of having it all gifted to you. That's not a pleasant sentiment, perhaps, but I don't think a world with no difficulties would necessarily be the best thing for everyone. Regardless of how you see it, Lloyd isn't the one to blame for how it played out. And they can still make the world a better place even without KeA's powers, even if it'll be harder. It isn't all or nothing in that regard.

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That partly feels like a really privileged viewpoint, too. Like sure, there's value in people struggling and overcoming adversity, but how does that apply to all the children who die before age 5? How does that apply to the people who got salt'd in North Ambria? I dunno, maybe Zemuria's way more egalitarian in that sense than Earth (it certainly seems to have less crime and death most of the time), but there are definitely people who could use help beyond what Lloyd and co provide.
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I mean, you can call it a privileged viewpoint if you like, but I'm also not going to say it's a justification for what Grimwood and Arios did either just because they lost loved ones in tragic ways. Lloyd went through the same things, too, so he's not exactly speaking from a position of "privilege" anyway. Like he said, undoing all those things would essentially be undoing what made him who he is. Undoing the bad would also undo good things that came out of it.

Like if we're trying to do the philosophical thing of "wouldn't you want to end all human suffering if you could," then sure. But I also don't think Grimwood's plan is actually going to achieve that, much like how the Aureole didn't or Demiourgos didn't. Like with all the Sept-Terrions, they sound great on paper, but none of them have actually worked as advertised. Yes, they can achieve some good, but they aren't going to make all the bad go away.

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I think I managed to get about halfway through Skyward Sword back on the Wii. I didn't really rage quit per say, but I had a hard time picking up and an easy time putting it down again and it felt more like a chore because I had beaten every other mainline Zelda.

Since all my issues were control based, I will be giving it a new chance on Switch, but I'm waiting a little bit because I already bought a PS5 with two games this month and that was a good bit more money on gaming in one go than what's good so saving it for another time.

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Azure: I think KeA's situation in particular complicates matters here even if I generally sympathize/agree with Mac's point that many stories are pretty dismissive/hostile/bad about things like this. Basically, KeA's power is actually TOO strong for her mind/soul to handle here in exactly the same way that Demiourgous disappeared. She very much COULD use her power to help in so many ways but once she starts taking that first step I think it increasingly starts to weigh on her mind on how she can possibly draw a line and not help everyone with everything. In that sense, saving the SSS in Zero and helping Shizuku started her down that track. Basically, the conundrum is that while her ability to rewrite causality could allow her to create a better world, it's just too much for someone with a human mind to bear. If KeA starts preventing deaths, or helping North Ambria, etc. she either feels she has to help EVERYONE to be just/fair or else grapple with the fact that she's arbitrarily selecting only certain people to help when there's literally no reason she couldn't do more.

This is slightly different than the Aureole even if it's similar. The Aureole was basically a cyberpunk AI hooked up to a bunch of factories that could basically create anything to help the people on the Liber Ark. But it WAS just an AI with a directive to make people happy so eventually it realized the most efficient way to do that with its capabilities was to just start putting people in VR utopias heedless of the fact that at this point it was creating a new problem because how it defined happiness wasn't always congruent with what some people (Celeste and co.) valued. KeA/Demiourgous is NOT that and tried to approach the problem by putting the controlling entity with a human mind to better understand the people it was helping but see the last paragraph. Ironically, I think an AI approach might have worked a bit better if combined with the far more powerful ability of KeA/Demiourgous but it didn't so...

Grimwood tried to fix the issue by providing support to KeA that the Demiourgous lacked to try and keep her emotionally together but I really don't think that would have worked in the long run. I think you either end up with the cabal of people assisting KeA (whether it's Grimwood's conspiracy, Mariabell, or even the SSS) succumbing to the same moral quandary, or becoming numb to it and slowly being warped by the power at their disposal in which case they're imposing their beliefs over the world's. Like at best it probably keeps things working longer than the Demiourgous did but it just delays the same fundamental problem that existed there by distributing the emotional toll among several people now... but they'd still eventually break just the same. And anyone who doesn't break (like Mariabell) is... probably not acting with the best/most altruistic motives.

To compare it to say, FFTA, it's why I don't look too kindly on the argument the game takes that the others are just running from their problems. While this IS true, that doesn't mean the solution is to revert everything. In fact, they end up emotionally confronting and overcoming the problems IN Ivalice which actually solves the "problem" there. It no longer necessitates they end it. I'm much more sympathetic to the arguments that tackle it from the angle that Ivalice isn't exactly the improvement it seems to be by trying to raise questions like "What happened to everyone outside the core cast/the town/world? Are THEY better off?" I forget how much the game broaches that itself and how much is relegated to the fandom debates over Villain Protagonist Marche but my very flawed memory thinks it was backburner stuff in-game at best and extremely tertiary to the message of "you're just running away!"

thank you for attending my ted talk

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Yeah, I think it's a legit interesting debate, but like I said before, I think the Sept-Terrions are commentaries on human nature than the nature of the Sept-Terrions themselves. Instead of asking, "Why didn't this work?" Their question became, "How do we replace it?" with a self-congratulatory "think of all the good we could do with this" while ignoring all the children they had to sacrifice to create KeA.

This goes back to my issues with Dieter, who wanted to talk about all the good he's doing for Crossbell, but doesn't want to be held accountable for all the people he had to trample to do all this good. Contrast that with Lloyd, who feels guilty and responsible for not being able to save freakin' Joachim, the loser of all losers.

And you can call out Lloyd for being a beneficiary of KeA's powers while being against her being used by Grimwood, but if we go down the causality wormhole, virtually nothing that happens in Zero or Azure would have happened if KeA doesn't exist or is just an ordinary girl. So that means the SSS probably doesn't die trying to take down Joachim because there's probably no cult. You just have to ask if it was worth it to sacrifice so many innocent people over the course of a millennium for the prospect of what KeA could do.

Regardless, all this conversation has cemented my option on Lloyd. I was on the fence about whether I liked him better than Rean or not, and now I'd say I definitely do. It just made me appreciate the choices he made with all he went through. The pain was always with him (and Tio and Randy, who arguably went through far worse), but unlike Arios and Grimwood, he didn't let it define him or dominate him.

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also I guess now I need to figure out all the characters in Trails who have a portrait

is there an easy way to do this that doesn't require me to try not getting spoiled on the Trails Wiki?

maybe TVTropes or something like that

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Azure:

I'm fine with what most of what you guys are saying, and don't necessarily disagree with most of it. I think it could've done a better job with a more nuanced portrayal, though. The bad guys certainly did bad things to achieve their ends, but I think it would've been nice to have the good guys try to find a good alternative solution of their own. Though I do respect the game for proving the bad guys "right" in a way - Crossbell is conquered and put in a poor position as soon as Lloyd and co. defeat their enemies.
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Azure:

One thing I will say is that I think the whole thing with Azure-Project is supposed to be viewed as an all-or nothing affair. I'm not sure they did the greatest job at selling the player on the idea that it necessarily has to be that way, but I think it's supposed to be that once the project starts it somehow flips a switch in the nature/scope of KeA's powers which needs to be undone for reasons people have already said, and then once the SSS puts a stop to that she loses all of her powers.

I'm not sure if there's any clear reason in the rules of how the Trails universe works why KeA's powers couldn't be used in a smaller scale in ways that are obviously good and don't end up self-destructive for KeA, but I think the Azure-Zero Project is not that solution
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Azure:

I'm fine with what most of what you guys are saying, and don't necessarily disagree with most of it. I think it could've done a better job with a more nuanced portrayal, though. The bad guys certainly did bad things to achieve their ends, but I think it would've been nice to have the good guys try to find a good alternative solution of their own. Though I do respect the game for proving the bad guys "right" in a way - Crossbell is conquered and put in a poor position as soon as Lloyd and co. defeat their enemies.

They weren't exactly given a chance because Bell pushed KeA over the edge and then she tried to erase herself as soon as the party set her free. Again, regardless of what you think should have been done, I don't think Lloyd is the one to blame here. He was the only one actually concerned about what effect it would have on KeA.

And I don't think it's a "the bad guys were right" situation here. The SSS all knew that they were going to face retaliation from Erebonia and Calvard once all this was over. It was not a surprise to them. They just weren't going to let that stop them, and they were determined to overcome that barrier, too. If anything, it gives me more respect that they didn't just take the easy way out!

if anything this game helped me to better understand why the SOS Brigade doesn't want Haruhi to find out about her powers...!

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Also CS4 seems to suggest KeA still has some lingering effects on causality, although it's not as strong and she's not really in control of it anymore.

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CS4: I thought KeA hypothesized it was a side-effect of the Great Twilight just making things screwy that reignited her power somewhat. I assumed once CS4 was over she went back to being normal but I suppose we'll find out in Hajimari.

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Breath of the Wild beated again. DLCs were pretty nice additions. Master Sword Trials were fun combat challenges with the procure-on-site mechanics. Champions' Ballad was by far the meatier one though. The extra characterization of the Champions was neat, the new shrines were generally on the higher-end of shrines given they tended to be a bit more involved/complex than the average, new Divine Beast was neat, and the DLC Boss was... interesting.

Locking the extra dialogue with the champions behind having to repeat the Blight fights to get a new one was absolutely awful design though. Counting the original for-the-actual-quest re-fights that's 6 times you have to fight them if you want to hear all the dialogue. And those 5 extra ones still restrict your equipment so you can't just cheese it to win super fast with OP weapons.

Still a great game and a Top 3 Zelda but while at the start I was just as into it as I was back in 2017 I did get some burn out later on as evidenced by my multiple 3-4 week gaps of just not playing it at all lol. Definitely think it would greatly benefit from a good amount of tinkering on the armor side. Cosmetic/"Actual" Armor for a start but more importantly some way to negate rain's effect on climbing would do miracles for the game. Make it an armor set bonus or something - the climbing gear description says it's no slip it would have made sense!

Think I've decided in favor of FE Three Houses DLC + Blue Lions for next since I'd still need to go back to it at a later point for Golden Deer to finish all routes but it'll totally be a time-of decision lol. Also technically I've been playing/reading Robotics;Notes but that's seemingly near its end as well. So ideally I'd wrap that up first before Fire Emblem but eh.

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Curious how RN compares to the other Science;Adventure games. I assume you never watched the anime?
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I have not, no.

Like I said, I'm still in progress but based on the trophy list I assume I am on the last chapter. Personally I'd say it's definitely the weakest of Steins;Gate, S;G 0, and Chaos;Child. The cast never really connected with me the way those two(-and-a-half) casts did. It's just very... okay... for the most part.

In classic Science Adventure fashion it does pick up dramatically later on but here it's waaaaaay later. Like penultiamte chapter later as opposed to more like the 40-50% mark with the others. Not to say there aren't moments where it does elevate before then but it ends up coming off more temporary before dropping back down to the earlier levels.

It's definitely more compelling where I am right now, but even then I have some bones to pick with it depending on how this plays out.

It did totally get me with one late twist though, completely blindsided in a good way.

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I'd like to replay BotW at some point, but it does feel like a massive undertaking.

And I need to do a Black Eagles + DLC run to finish off the last house for me in Three Houses. It's probably been long enough that I won't get burnt out on it, but I've still got a lot of stuff to get to first!

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Frau was my favorite part of RN. Everything focused on her was generally good times, but her focus is minimal in the second half of the anime.

I actually liked the early parts of the series better though, IIRC. The mind control/body control twist wasn't really my thing.

BotW replay feels like something I'd want to save for a Switch 2 or whatever to play with better performance. It's a long game, so I'm in no rush!
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R;N: Yeah, Frau is basically the best character in the cast IMO. And I was thinking of her chapter/route in particular when I said even before the "shit gets real" stage of the story that there's still great moments.

Yeah, the mind control in particular is what I have issues with. I know Science Adventure plays super fast and loose with actual science but Kimijima's "curse" almost seeming literal in the form of mind/body control is just pretty bad IMO. I don't have high hopes for that being explained/made better but idk anything is possible. At least Misaki's internal POV makes it sound slightly better (that suffering his constant whispering for 10 years had driven her to the point where she can't really tell what is her "inner voice" and what is his at times, or at least how I took it) than his possession of Airi where there just doesn't seem to be any logic to it.

The twist that got me and I liked was good guy Sawada lol. I just rolled with Frau's supposition that he was too shady to be anything but a villain, maybe to be upstaged by Misaki later... which she kinda did but not in a villain v villain manner!

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Man, how did I not know that Chrono Trigger music with added vocals was a thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4NnBrn4OGY

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maybe I should play Bastion since it won that last poll and I imagine it's not a long game

plus I owe Digi a completed playthrough like I owe LotM a completed DQ8 playthrough

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Black Widow beated. Pretty good! Hot take: BW is the best MCU entry so far this year.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Man, how did I not know that Chrono Trigger music with added vocals was a thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4NnBrn4OGY

Hearing an official vocal version of To Far Away Times feels so strange to me. I always loved listening to this OC Remix that was a vocal version of the same song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ikq3n55rM4
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