Poll of the Day > Hollow Knight is a great game. ~spoilers~

(+) Yeah! (+)

I was iffy about it at first. I was constantly lost and the difficulty of the game was a turn off, but I'm really invested now. I've been playing for about 25 hours and I think I'm approaching endgame and well anyway... definitely worth what I paid for.

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Agreed.

Fuck that final pantheon, though.

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Yeah.... I'm still not good enough to advance without dying every few screens, and the bosses are still kicking my ass, so if I manage to beat the game, I don't see myself going for any extra stuff

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Sarcasthma posted...

Fuck that final pantheon, though.

1000x this

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It is a really great game, but I think it is slightly overrated as a metroidvania as it is often cited as the best one. The atmosphere and the music is all top notch though. I am currently playing it as well, my 3rd try at it and I am enjoying it more this time... even though I did quit in anger last night after dying to the Mantis Lords too many times.

I love it, so atmospheric

Archgoat posted...

It is a really great game, but I think it is slightly overrated as a metroidvania as it is often cited as the best one. The atmosphere and the music is all top notch though. I am currently playing it as well, my 3rd try at it and I am enjoying it more this time... even though I did quit in anger last night after dying to the Mantis Lords too many times.

Wait, you think it's overrated but you haven't even gotten past the Mantis Lords yet?

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Archgoat posted...

It is a really great game, but I think it is slightly overrated as a metroidvania as it is often cited as the best one. The atmosphere and the music is all top notch though. I am currently playing it as well, my 3rd try at it and I am enjoying it more this time... even though I did quit in anger last night after dying to the Mantis Lords too many times.

I beat the mantis lords two days ago! Took me quite a while for sure. I'm currently stuck at the Watcher Knights boss fight, and I'm trying to find a way to break those black walls that appear sometimes. I don't think I can advance until I can get through those.

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MrMelodramatic posted...

I beat the mantis lords two days ago! Took me quite a while for sure. I'm currently stuck at the Watcher Knights boss fight, and I'm trying to find a way to break those black walls that appear sometimes. I don't think I can advance until I can get through those.

you get that ability past mid game. If you have a key open the hatch to the sewers and progress through there.

Mensis posted...

you get that ability past mid game. If you have a key open the hatch to the sewers and progress through there.

I've definitely been through the sewers so I guess I must've missed. I've already gotten two of the three black egg masks, and other abilities like the super dash and double jump and ground smash, so I thought my progress would've ended a lot longer ago if I was already supposed to get this black wall ability.

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MrMelodramatic posted...

I've definitely been through the sewers so I guess I must've missed. I've already gotten two of the three black egg masks, and other abilities like the super dash and double jump and ground smash, so I thought my progress would've ended a lot longer ago if I was already supposed to get this black wall ability.

I think your next destination is in Kingdoms Edge to progress if I remember right

Sarcasthma posted...

Wait, you think it's overrated but you haven't even gotten past the Mantis Lords yet?

I did the city and got the ground breaker ability and crystal mines area, and some of the resting grounds already. I think I am doing the Mantis Lords a little later than a lot of people do. I missed that area where they are when I went through the first time.

I think it is slightly overrated as I am a huge fan of metroidvanias and this one didn't grab me right away like others, like I said this is my 3rd time starting it. I just don't think it is best modern metroidvania like most people make it out to be. I prefer the Ori games, Bloodstained, and Blasphemous to it (not to mention Super Metroid and SOTN). Maybe I will change my mind when I finish it. It is a great game, don't get me wrong, not trying to slag it, just my opinion.

I liked it but I wouldnt consider it the best Metroidvania at all

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I consider it more Metroid than Metroidvania, but everyone looks for different things in "Metroidvania".

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Amazing game and honestly I have no problem with the final pantheon normally. It is a huge chore to clear with bindings because they put the hardest fight (collector) like 30 minutes into the run. I hate that fight. It's so easy with good gear and so obnoxious when you are gimped. Definitely my favorite indie game.

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Over 100 hours into it and there's a ton of optional stuff I haven't done

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It's too big and there was no reason to put a corpse running souls mechanic in it. That's dumb. Hey this is a game about exploration, oops you died? Better not explore any more, gotta go take the exact same path again unless you want to lose a bunch of shit!

CoorsLight posted...

It's too big and there was no reason to put a corpse running souls mechanic in it. That's dumb. Hey this is a game about exploration, oops you died? Better not explore any more, gotta go take the exact same path again unless you want to lose a bunch of shit!

youre mad about too many things lately

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CoorsLight posted...

It's too big and there was no reason to put a corpse running souls mechanic in it. That's dumb. Hey this is a game about exploration, oops you died? Better not explore any more, gotta go take the exact same path again unless you want to lose a bunch of shit!

This is true. Towards the beginning when I got stuck I looked at a guide and the complete map is crazy big and made me think I might not be able to get into the game. When you get to the 3rd or 4th area, though, the world starts feeling more manageable. The shade soul being left behind does suck because I don't want to lose all my geo, but it has also helped me brute force my way through bosses that I might have otherwise given up on and eventually left the game. A big problem I have is how far save points are. I dunno if this is a staple of metriodvanias or if this is just HK, but not autosaving/having checkpoints more often than one or twice a level adds unnecessary tedium imo

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MrMelodramatic posted...

This is true. Towards the beginning when I got stuck I looked at a guide and the complete map is crazy big and made me think I might not be able to get into the game. When you get to the 3rd or 4th area, though, the world starts feeling more manageable. The shade soul being left behind does suck because I don't want to lose all my geo, but it has also helped me brute force my way through bosses that I might have otherwise given up on and eventually left the game. A big problem I have is how far save points are. I dunno if this is a staple of metriodvanias or if this is just HK, but not autosaving/having checkpoints more often than one or twice a level adds unnecessary tedium imo

That's why it's great on the switch. Just turn it off whenever and pick up immediately where you left off. I just started a new playthrough and I feel like it's more enjoyable the 2nd Time around. I remember finding the game very difficult and confusing the first time I played

The switch is definitely a great way to play, and it is how I'm playing it. Still though, there are times when the saving system is offputting. For example, the closest save point near the Mantis Lords isn't exactly nearby, and there's a lot of enemies between. I died a lot in that boss fight, and there were several times where I gave up on trying not because I was frustrated with the boss, but because I didn't feel like spending a few minutes getting there.

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Full disclosure: I don't play a lot of video games, and except for Metroid Zero Mission (which I remember loving when I was ten lol) I don't think I've ever played a metroidvania. Not a lot for me to compare this game to. It's pretty novel

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sodium-chloride posted...

That's why it's great on the switch. Just turn it off whenever and pick up immediately where you left off.

The sleep function on Switch is not really optimized to use while a game is running.

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

The sleep function on Switch is not really optimized to use while a game is running.

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

The sleep function on Switch is not really optimized to use while a game is running.

What does that even mean

Nichtcrawler X posted...

The sleep function on Switch is not really optimized to use while a game is running.

Then what is it for? Does the switch even have an "off" that isn't sleep?

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CoorsLight posted...

It's too big and there was no reason to put a corpse running souls mechanic in it. That's dumb. Hey this is a game about exploration, oops you died? Better not explore any more, gotta go take the exact same path again unless you want to lose a bunch of shit

Geo is pretty easy to come by, by the time you end up actually needing it.

It's not discouraging exploration so much as encouraging caution. The game doesn't have nearly as many BS one-hit kills like Dark Souls.

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sodium-chloride posted...

What does that even mean

Many games get memory bugs from excessive use of the Switch sleep function, without properly turning it off.

MrMelodramatic posted...

Then what is it for? Does the switch even have an "off" that isn't sleep?

Obviously, yes.

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MrMelodramatic posted...

Then what is it for? Does the switch even have an "off" that isn't sleep?

I just looked it up. I don't think I've actually turned off my switch in several months. Maybe my gf does though, because it definitely isn't always on sleep when I pick it up.

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Obviously, yes.

I was literally unaware lol. Like I guess I knew, but I haven't turned it off in so long I forgot standby wasn't "off". And I've never come across a game that h B ugged because the console was on standby

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Many games get memory bugs from excessive use of the Switch sleep function, without properly turning it off.

any games in particular? I have played at least 20 games on my switch and have even purposefully used sleep mode during load screens just to see if it fucks with the game...never have had any issues.

Holy cow I just watched this video of a dude beating the MAntis boss on a harder difficulty or something and it was hella intense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktDxzN8Y2U

@Archgoat mantis lords gave me grief in their regular state. This would make me quit.

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holy shit that's insane

Mead posted...

youre mad about too many things lately

Huh? I've posted like five times in the past week

Metalsonic66 posted...

It's not discouraging exploration so much as encouraging caution. The game doesn't have nearly as many BS one-hit kills like Dark Souls.

Deaths in a game without that usually have enough of a penalty to encourage caution. I agree it's not as cruel as Dark Souls but in Dark Souls you generally would go back in the same direction regardless. The annoying thing with Hollow Knight is that you're mapping out your adventure as you go along, but unlike most Metroidvanias, it doesn't fill out the map as you go along. So if you don't go the direction of the map guy, then you die, maybe you'd be tempted to go a different direction to find him, but you're disincentivized to change direction... it's too many competing systems put together

MrMelodramatic posted...

Holy cow I just watched this video of a dude beating the MAntis boss on a harder difficulty or something and it was hella intense.

That's a mod. There's a lot of modded super hard versions of bosses out there (and ironborn or crazytemplar has probably beat them). Challenge and speedrunners go freaking crazy on this game. Stuff like hitless path of pain with extreme darkness and the absurd trial mods out there.

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VioletMassacre posted...

It really is fucking amazing, in basically every way. Im glad that Silksong turned into its own game but god damn, release it already!

No silksong news at e3 this year

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CoorsLight posted...

Deaths in a game without that usually have enough of a penalty to encourage caution. I agree it's not as cruel as Dark Souls but in Dark Souls you generally would go back in the same direction regardless. The annoying thing with Hollow Knight is that you're mapping out your adventure as you go along, but unlike most Metroidvanias, it doesn't fill out the map as you go along. So if you don't go the direction of the map guy, then you die, maybe you'd be tempted to go a different direction to find him, but you're disincentivized to change direction... it's too many competing systems put together

I felt it did a good job. Every time I got a new power up, I got really excited about seeing how much further it could get me in one area or another. The game never forces you to approach any part of the game in any order, which can annoy people who want more direction out of a game, I suppose.

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Reached the second hornet fight.

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Metalsonic66 posted...

I felt it did a good job. Every time I got a new power up, I got really excited about seeing how much further it could get me in one area or another. The game never forces you to approach any part of the game in any order, which can annoy people who want more direction out of a game, I suppose.

What does that have to do with the souls mechanic though, this is true of most good metroidvanias

CoorsLight posted...

What does that have to do with the souls mechanic though, this is true of most good metroidvanias

Metalsonic66 posted...

I felt it did a good job.

I just don't really agree that it "discourages exploration"

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MrMelodramatic posted...

Holy cow I just watched this video of a dude beating the MAntis boss on a harder difficulty or something and it was hella intense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktDxzN8Y2U

@Archgoat mantis lords gave me grief in their regular state. This would make me quit.

Wow! That makes my fingers hurt just watching it.

Kinda funny seeing people complain about Mantis Lords when it's really not that difficult. The game gets much harder later on, and goes way beyond that in the free DLC.

I usually die a few times on Mantis Lords getting into the fight, because it is one of the more difficult fights in the early game but it's nowhere near super hard.

it feels bad but I might give up. I can't beet hornet and I can't beat the watcher knights and as far as I can tell, I need to do both to continue.

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MrMelodramatic posted...

it feels bad but I might give up. I can't beet hornet and I can't beat the watcher knights and as far as I can tell, I need to do both to continue.

Naw man just keep trying

MrMelodramatic posted...

it feels bad but I might give up. I can't beet hornet and I can't beat the watcher knights and as far as I can tell, I need to do both to continue.

Try mixing up your build or upgrading your nail damage. Those things make a big difference. Also spells with a spell build do kind of absurd damage.

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MrMelodramatic posted...

it feels bad but I might give up. I can't beet hornet and I can't beat the watcher knights and as far as I can tell, I need to do both to continue.

Watcher Knights are the hardest non DLC boss for me so i understand the struggle there but just keep at it. I second the spell build recommendation if you havent tried it yet.

Also spoils for a hidden area

There is a secret area at the top of the room right outside the Watcher Knights boss room that might help slightly.

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The Watcher Knights kicked my ass when I first encountered them. I think I died almost 10 times fighting them.

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SilentSeph posted...

The Watcher Knights kicked my ass when I first encountered them. I think I died almost 10 times fighting them.

I've tried no less than 30 times lmao

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