Board 8 > With mask mandates ending

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's ridiculously braindead to think that not wearing a mask makes you look like a trumper.

Trumpers are anti-science. Wearing a mask before the vaccine is following science, and so is not wearing one after the vaccine. How the hell does that make you seem like a trumper? It makes no sense. Trumpers right now are literally wearing masks because they think the vaccinated people are spreading some deadly virus. Because they are anti-science. It's so simple, but people keep making this dumbass joke-but-not-really about continuing to wear the mask.

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Dancedreamer posted...

but I'm going to continue until we reach herd immunity

oops

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I'm vacced and only wear one when required

foolm0r0n posted...

Wearing a mask before the vaccine is following science, and so is not wearing one after the vaccine

Weird how doctors, and not people who pretend to be one on internet message boards, advise continuing to wear masks even after the vaccine.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Weird how doctors, and not people who pretend to be one on internet message boards, advise continuing to wear masks even after the vaccine.

i mean he's referencing the cdc so...

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Dancedreamer posted...

Weird how doctors, and not people who pretend to be one on internet message boards, advise continuing to wear masks even after the vaccine.

Who does? Legit curious

And no I don't care about the CDC. Government is not science.

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Vaccinated and sometimes. Off at the gym and restaurants, still on at stores for the time being. I walked into a gas station without a mask on the other day and felt weird.

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Whether or not you should continue to wear a mask after getting vaccinated is not a scientific question. Science can address how likely you are to get covid while doing a particular activity with or without a mask while vaccinated or unvaccinated. To actually get to whether or not continuing to wear a mask is rational or not you need to combine that with personal risk tolerance and how costly one finds continuing to mask.

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foolm0r0n posted...

Who does? Legit curious

A number of doctors.

Here's a couple that say similar things:
https://www.mhealth.org/blog/2021/jan-2021/mask-and-social-distance-even-after-covid-19-vaccine
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/already-vaccinated-heres-why-you-shouldnt-stop-wearing-your-face-mask-yet/
https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/HealthU/2021/01/20/3-reasons-why-you-should-continue-wearing-a-mask-after-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine/
https://khn.org/news/article/5-reasons-to-wear-a-mask-even-after-youre-vaccinated/


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I always find it funny the vacced people who sometimes wear a mask. It's always in stores where you're basically always moving around and not getting continually close to people. But at the gym when you're breathing heavy or in a restaurant when you're sitting in (relative) close proximity to people for a long period of time? Nah, we good.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

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Seanchan posted...

I always find it funny the vacced people who sometimes wear a mask. It's always in stores where you're basically always moving around and not getting continually close to people. But at the gym when you're breathing heavy or in a restaurant when you're sitting in (relative) close proximity to people for a long period of time? Nah, we good.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

Continuing to wear one at a store is less inconvenient compared to somewhere like the gym. That's really all it is.

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Seanchan posted...

I always find it funny the vacced people who sometimes wear a mask. It's always in stores where you're basically always moving around and not getting continually close to people. But at the gym when you're breathing heavy or in a restaurant when you're sitting in (relative) close proximity to people for a long period of time? Nah, we good.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

You aren't understanding risk. Risk in these individual cases is independent of each other. So while someone is willing to assume some risk for activity A, they aren't for activity B. This is still less risk than A+B even if A is the greater risk.

Dancedreamer posted...

A number of doctors.

Here's a couple that say similar things:
https://www.mhealth.org/blog/2021/jan-2021/mask-and-social-distance-even-after-covid-19-vaccine
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/already-vaccinated-heres-why-you-shouldnt-stop-wearing-your-face-mask-yet/
https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/HealthU/2021/01/20/3-reasons-why-you-should-continue-wearing-a-mask-after-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine/
https://khn.org/news/article/5-reasons-to-wear-a-mask-even-after-youre-vaccinated/

These are all from January, and all deny the science of vaccines. Even if the vaccine isn't 100% effective for you, you still have SOME antibodies, and that means the COVID won't do as much harm to you. Additionally, if you exhale the COVID particles, you're passing to someone else a weakened or dead virus that will in turn give them antibodies, thus continuing to build herd immunity. Wearing a mask has the opposite effect once you're vaccinated, ergo you can burn your masks at that point.

I don't listen to quacks. I listen to science.
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mnkboy907 posted...

Continuing to wear one at a store is less inconvenient compared to somewhere like the gym. That's really all it is.

Oh yes, I totally understand why. But the virus doesn't care about convenience. I just think it's silly thinking.

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Seanchan posted...

Oh yes, I totally understand why. But the virus doesn't care about convenience. I just think it's silly thinking.

Well I'm already protected, the risk of me getting anything serious is so minimal I'm fine with not wearing my mask at all, so it's just about how much am I willing to inconvenience myself to make the really small chance of potentially passing covid to someone else even smaller.

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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Additionally, if you exhale the COVID particles, you're passing to someone else a weakened or dead virus that will in turn give them antibodies

Or you pass it to someone with a compromised immune system, they don't build antibodies and then die.

Mask mandate isn't over where I am at.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Here's a couple that say similar things:
https://www.mhealth.org/blog/2021/jan-2021/mask-and-social-distance-even-after-covid-19-vaccine
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/already-vaccinated-heres-why-you-shouldnt-stop-wearing-your-face-mask-yet/
https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/HealthU/2021/01/20/3-reasons-why-you-should-continue-wearing-a-mask-after-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine/
https://khn.org/news/article/5-reasons-to-wear-a-mask-even-after-youre-vaccinated/

Not wearing a mask is consistent with the points they're bringing up. It's just a different conclusion. (Remember science doesn't tell you what to do, it just provides the facts.)

The main point is about herd immunity, which isn't relevant in most local cases we're talking about. It doesn't matter that the US is only 40% vaxxed if everyone at your grocery store or gym or party is fully vaxxed. You have local immunity. Same with a scenario where the US is 99% vaxxed. If you're hanging out with the non-vaxxed 1%, then you're still at risk.

The other point is about asymptomatic transfer. Science has not found evidence for it, nor do we have enough data to rule it out. So if you want to take the paranoid conclusion there, that's fine. But it's also valid to conclude that asymptomatic transfer is not enough of a risk, like most things that have no evidence. If they find evidence for it then I sure as hell would wear the mask again.

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mnkboy907 posted...

Well I'm already protected, the risk of me getting anything serious is so minimal I'm fine with not wearing my mask at all, so it's just about how much am I willing to inconvenience myself to make the really small chance of potentially passing covid to someone else even smaller.

But why are you still wearing it in the store? It's like Coca Cola telling people to stop using plastic straws to clean up the ocean

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I'm vaccinated and I generally still wear one. It's required on public transport and in some buildings and I can't really be bothered to figure out exactly where they are and aren't needed.
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I still wear a mask in public, indoor spaces, as a matter of ensuring that people are comfortable around me. Regardless of my vaccination status, if I am masked, then I am making myself less of a threat, and indicating that I'm trustworthy - the dreaded virtue signaling that everyone hates. Even if I'm unvaccinated, if I'm masked, then people can trust that I am taking them seriously and keeping their safety in mind. If I'm unmasked, then I'm a total wildcard. It could indicate that I'm a nice person who's vaccinated, or it could indicate that I'm an asshole who's putting them at risk. There's no way to know, and because our society is so fucked up, there'll never be a way to know. I will only stop wearing a mask once covid cases in my area have dropped to negligible levels - probably under 1 in 100,000 daily, which we're not at all close to yet. The pandemic is still very much ongoing and numbers are quite high.

foolm0r0n posted...

But why are you still wearing it in the store? It's like Coca Cola telling people to stop using plastic straws to clean up the ocean

Eh, it's not enough of an inconvenience not to. Who knows, maybe I'm also preventing someone from getting a cold. Also what Para said I guess.

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vaccinated and still wear one most of the time because it doesn't bother me very much to have one on

i don't care if it offends others who think i'm virtue signalling, that's their problem not mine

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Leafeon13N posted...

Or you pass it to someone with a compromised immune system, they don't build antibodies and then die.

While it's good to look out for your fellow man, you really have to wonder where to draw the line on this kind of thinking. Do you wear a mask for the rest of your life because of people with an even worse immune system who could be killed by your common cold? Do you never drive a car again because you might cause an accident? Avoiding any kind of disagreement with people in real life and online because of the possibility of them having a mental condition where they do harm to themselves? I understand the mentality of wanting to look out for people...but it gets to a point where it's impractical and you really can't live your life in any realistic manner if you let it get to you. I think it's just better to follow the general scientific guidelines that are being established for a society to function again, rather than one's own interpretations.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Even if I'm unvaccinated, if I'm masked, then people can trust that I am taking them seriously and keeping their safety in mind. If I'm unmasked, then I'm a total wildcard. It could indicate that I'm a nice person who's vaccinated, or it could indicate that I'm an asshole who's putting them at risk.

While there are certainly parts of the world where there are people who want vaccinated, yet can't get it yet, that doesn't apply to most of the US (and that's only going to become more and more true). So the people you are perceiving in your mind as being afraid of you for not wearing a mask are mostly going to be people who have actively chosen not to get the vaccine. Everyone I know in real life who doesn't have the vaccine has chosen that they don't want it for various reasons. I'm not saying my life experience here is the same for everyone...but I'm not even in one of the top states, and is true for me.

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Depends. Usually not, but if it's indoors and particularly crowded, sure. It's barely even an inconvenience to me, so whatever.

Not gonna fault anybody who is vaccinated either way

Anybody that's choosing to not be vaccinated and choosing to not wear a mask I have no problem labeling as an idiot, though

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TomNook posted...

While it's good to look out for your fellow man, you really have to wonder where to draw the line on this kind of thinking. Do you wear a mask for the rest of your life because of people with an even worse immune system who could be killed by your common cold? Do you never drive a car again because you might cause an accident? Avoiding any kind of disagreement with people in real life and online because of the possibility of them having a mental condition where they do harm to themselves? I understand the mentality of wanting to look out for people...but it gets to a point where it's impractical and you really can't live your life in any realistic manner if you let it get to you. I think it's just better to follow the general scientific guidelines that are being established for a society to function again, rather than one's own interpretations.

It is reasonable to ask how much inconvenience someone should go to in order to keep themselves and other safe, but remember, the pandemic is still going on, and it's still pretty bad in some parts of the country. You've made some false equivalences here - the inconvenience of wearing a mask is nowhere near the same as not driving a car or not speaking to other people. Really, for many of us, the cost of wearing a mask is almost nothing, so it doesn't hurt to wear one, certainly at least while the pandemic is still happening, which again, it is. (By the way, the risks of driving an automobile and the risk of negatively impacting another person's mental health are two things that I think people don't take half as seriously as they should.)

While there are certainly parts of the world where there are people who want vaccinated, yet can't get it yet, that doesn't apply to most of the US (and that's only going to become more and more true). So the people you are perceiving in your mind as being afraid of you for not wearing a mask are mostly going to be people who have actively chosen not to get the vaccine. Everyone I know in real life who doesn't have the vaccine has chosen that they don't want it for various reasons. I'm not saying my life experience here is the same for everyone...but I'm not even in one of the top states, and is true for me.

Sorry but that's just not true where I live - only as of last week was it possible for all people 18+ to be past the two-week waiting period after the second moderna shot, and that's only if you got an appointment immediately, which was difficult to do at the start of the eligibility period, and I'm not going to condemn someone just because they didn't get the vaccine immediately as soon as possible. This, combined with the fact that there are people who can't get vaccinated, and also the fact that I still want to protect people who are unvaccinated by choice even if they're idiots (they can pass it onto other vulnerable people, after all - we are not just individuals, we're part of a system), means that I do still prioritize the safety of unvaccinated individuals. And even if they're vaccinated, I frankly just don't want people to think that I might be putting others at risk! Nobody wants to be mistaken for an asshole in public, unless you're an asshole.

I have, as you'll notice, given a reasonable line at which I think wearing masks indoors won't really have any effect, medically or socially, and we haven't hit it. If everyone were wearing masks, regardless of whether or not they believed it was necessary (because some people are going to be wrong about that), we might get there faster.

Another thing to consider about masks is the risk of unknown unknowns. Listening to the science is wise - trusting the science is foolish, as science is often wrong and always evolving, especially with judgments that have been made in haste as the pandemic has forced us to do. I believe the numbers on vaccine efficacy are likely accurate, but we don't yet know what factors could possibly cause the vaccine to not work. For instance, it has been hypothesized that people on immunosuppressants, such as oral cortesoids, may not have had a proper immune response and are not actually properly protected - this might seem obvious, but I did notice that at no point in surveying me did they warn me against taking prednisone, for instance (a steroid that I was taking for my foot), and it was up to me individually to confirm with my doctor that I should be off of it. Nobody ever reached out and precautioned me against this, so this is a mistake that thousands of people have likely made. There are other possible unknown unknowns out there. I have quite the medical history and I'm a very high risk individual for covid, and I cannot absolutely confirm that the vaccine worked properly and that I am at no risk. It's fairly likely that I'm not, but as long as the pandemic is going on, I'm going to continue to take precautions, because death is a very realistic consequence for me if I'm wrong. The cost of wearing a mask is just hilariously negligible in the face of this - it's not the same thing as "not driving a car," a risk I have decided is worth taking.

foolm0r0n posted...

The main point is about herd immunity, which isn't relevant in most local cases we're talking about. It doesn't matter that the US is only 40% vaxxed if everyone at your grocery store or gym or party is fully vaxxed. You have local immunity. Same with a scenario where the US is 99% vaxxed. If you're hanging out with the non-vaxxed 1%, then you're still at risk.

You can't know with any level of certainty if everyone at your grocery store or gym is fully vaxxed or not. (Private parties are a different matter).

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TomNook posted...

Do you wear a mask for the rest of your life because of people with an even worse immune system who could be killed by your common cold?

If you have a common cold please wear a mask out in public, yes.

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Kenri posted...

If you have a common cold please wear a mask out in public, yes.

Oh yeah also this. We should have been wearing masks a lot more all along. It's common sense.

You made a lot of good points between both posts and I appreciate the respectable response. I don't have much to add, as you are very well read in it. I have no issue with people wearing or not wearing masks at this stage, as I think both sides have reasonable points. I just think now is the first time where people have no reason to be upset at either types of people for choosing their option.

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Kenri posted...

If you have a common cold please wear a mask out in public, yes.

Sure, but the point I was making with that is that if you are going over the top with wanting to protect people, you have to be wearing a mask all the time, because the contagious period of many contagious viruses precedes symptoms, the common cold included.

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i personally would like wearing masks as a precautionary measure in crowded spaces to be more normalized in western culture, and I wouldn't have a problem wearing it most of the time

outside of covid, you're looked at like a lunatic if you just wear a mask and don't seem visibly ill. meanwhile if you check out google street view of like japan there's plenty of people with masks on

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Dancedreamer posted...

You can't know with any level of certainty if everyone at your grocery store or gym is fully vaxxed or not. (Private parties are a different matter).

That's the rule though. If you think people are lying to a degree that beats herd immunity then that's taking the paranoid route again, which is fine but not good for general advice.

Paratroopa1 posted...

probably under 1 in 100,000 daily

That sounds like a good strategy. My area is at 2-3 right now, and country-wide it seems to be approaching 1 very fast. We also don't have many anti-maskers here so we don't need to signal (although I still don't think wearing a mask is giving the right signals).

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Listening to the science is wise - trusting the science is foolish, as science is often wrong and always evolving

This is true but not actually useful. Hypotheses are free, which is why there's a million of them. You can't make decisions based on them. It's good to be skeptical and try to get better answers, like in your medicine case, but if no one has the answers, then skepticism can't help you. The best it can do is drive more research in covid vaccines, which is obv a good thing, but there's no lack of that right now. The worst it can do is scare people from getting the vaccine.

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foolm0r0n posted...

That's the rule though. If you think people are lying to a degree that beats herd immunity then that's taking the paranoid route again, which is fine but not good for general advice.

If 50% of people in your area are vaccinated, what are the chances that the grocery store you go to has 100% of people vaccinated? I feel like you're just throwing out random words like 'paranoia' in order to make your point sound smarter than it is, when it's nothing but semantics. Further, with children under the age of 12 being unable to be vaccinated...

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Oh yeah also this. We should have been wearing masks a lot more all along. It's common sense.

Finally America is catching up to glorious Nippon

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Listening to the science is wise - trusting the science is foolish, as science is often wrong and always evolving, especially with judgments that have been made in haste as the pandemic has forced us to do.

which is exactly why I dont wear a mask

foolm0r0n posted...

This is true but not actually useful. Hypotheses are free, which is why there's a million of them. You can't make decisions based on them. It's good to be skeptical and try to get better answers, like in your medicine case, but if no one has the answers, then skepticism can't help you. The best it can do is drive more research in covid vaccines, which is obv a good thing, but there's no lack of that right now. The worst it can do is scare people from getting the vaccine.

I was inaccurate in my wording - it's less "don't trust the science" and more "specifically, don't just naturally assume the CDC's guidelines have your best interest in mind"

Kureejii Lea posted...

which is exactly why I dont wear a mask

You aren't listening to science.

whats the point - I wear a mask properly and what then. The old geezer who cant figure out how to put it over his nose is fine? The fat ass behind me rubbing his eyes then touching stuff is fine? The fake anxiety people who use that claim to not bother wearing masks are fine? Everyone who hasnt washed their hands in weeks and touches everything is good? We act like the people not wearing masks are somehow the reason this thing isnt over yet the majority of people wearing masks arent doing anything other than following the rules so they can shop - it was never really about caring for anyone else

the fuck are you talking about

You know that probabilities can be between 0 and 1, and that reducing chances of catching/transmitting covid is good even if you dont reduce them to 0, right

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Kureejii Lea posted...

which is exactly why I dont wear a mask

nah you pretty clearly don't wear a mask because you're just a dipshit

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Kureejii Lea posted...

whats the point - I wear a mask properly and what then. The old geezer who cant figure out how to put it over his nose is fine? The fat ass behind me rubbing his eyes then touching stuff is fine? The fake anxiety people who use that claim to not bother wearing masks are fine? Everyone who hasnt washed their hands in weeks and touches everything is good? We act like the people not wearing masks are somehow the reason this thing isnt over yet the majority of people wearing masks arent doing anything other than following the rules so they can shop - it was never really about caring for anyone else

This is the dumbest post I've read in a long time. Congratulations.

EDIT: Like if you don't want to wear a mask because you're a dipshit that doesn't want to wear a mask, just say it. That's probably a better thing to admit then trying whatever you just tried to explain it. I get you're trying to pull a "Ackshually, nobody else wearing a mask actually cares about anybody else, so it's okay that I don't care about anybody else," but the way you worded it makes clear that, no, you just legitimately don't give a fuck about anybody but yourself, so you might as well just own it.

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Kenri posted...

nah you pretty clearly don't wear a mask because you're just a dipshit

sorry but this precautionary 2 week lockdown is starting to get old at a year and a half
if you want to wear a mask thats great Im certainly not going to tell anyone else what to do

StealThisSheen posted...

This is the dumbest post I've read in a long time. Congratulations.

EDIT: Like if you don't want to wear a mask because you're a dipshit that doesn't want to wear a mask, just say it. That's probably a better thing to admit then trying whatever you just tried to explain it

My point is that half the morons in public who think highly of themselves for wearing a piece of fabric over their mouths arent actually making themselves or anyone else any safer when they routinely either dont cover their nose or do a variety of other things that would spread the virus anyways

Yeah, keep making those excuses for being a dipshit. Whatever makes you feel good.

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Like, I'm legitimately confused how you think you have a good point when your logic is literally "The people wearing masks do other things that help spread the virus anyway, so I'm gonna do even less than them! Ha! Got'em!"

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