Current Events > Loki singlehandedly destroyed the MCU's worldbuilding *episode 1 spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

awesome999 posted...

The movies are supposed to be disjointed from the comics. I remember an interview where Feige (? might've been someone else) saying something along the lines of "a lot more things are possible in comics because it's inherently a more fantastic medium than film. Movie going audiences suspend their disbelief much less"

Yet here we are and the MCU with living, talking planets, godly magical aliens, devils anuses, reality altering magical stones, immortal beings who are created by other immortal celestial beings, time traveling police force and a cat with a black hole for a stomach.

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awesome999 posted...

It's a pretty gaping plot hole and if I can stick my dick into it, I will. Plot holes are never ok
They should never have touched time travel and now there's gonna be power creep on a galactic scale like TC's elaborated in the OP

Missing information isn't a plot hole. There's nothing that indicates that it's impossible for Steve to return the stones. He is wielding magic stones.

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Some body said these Disney Plus shows aren't canon? They literally star characters from the movies. I can't remember a movie outside of the avengers movies and maybe black panther that generated the same online buzz as Wandavision.

Hold on to your precious canon darlings such as Hulk, Thor The dark world, iron man 2/3

MegaCamerupt posted...

This show opens up more plot holes than it fills. If the TVA restricts all timelines to the same events, then does that mean the time heist happens in every timeline? And if Loki getting the Tesseract isn't supposed to happen then why don't Tony and Cap get "reset" for going back to 1970?

As they said in the show those were supposed to happen, Loki wasnt supposed to escape. His escape made a secondary timeline which they nuked. There is currently ONLY one timeline. The sacred timeline.

Blue_Popo posted...

Some body said these Disney Plus shows aren't canon? They literally star characters from the movies. I can't remember a movie outside of the avengers movies and maybe black panther that generated the same online buzz as Wandavision.

Hold on to your precious canon darlings such as Hulk, Thor The dark world, iron man 2/3

He said he hasn't seen a single MCU show, so I'm assuming he's talking about the Netflix and ABC shows. They are pretty heavily debated to be non-canon.

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awesome999 posted...

archedsoul posted...
Julia Louis-dreyfus is in Black Widow and will be in future movies

Introduced in the movies

JLD has not been in a movie yet as BW has not been released yet. Her first appearance is in TFAWS. US Agent is up in the air, but Cap 4 seems likely.

Ms Marvel in her show first then will be in The Marvels movie.

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BlakPeppa posted...

He said he hasn't seen a single MCU show, so I'm assuming he's talking about the Netflix and ABC shows. They are pretty heavily debated to be non-canon.

Ah ok, I'm going to go non canon on those as well

BlakPeppa posted...

He said he hasn't seen a single MCU show, so I'm assuming he's talking about the Netflix and ABC shows. They are pretty heavily debated to be non-canon.

They are canon though.

Coulson, Fury, and Sif are all in AoS. Peggy and whatnot in AC. All the Netflix shows happen in universe.
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Netflix shows are technically canon but I doubt they'll ever be referenced again. You really have to stretch them to fit into the MCU at this point.

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ehh that is comics for ya. im glad the movies/shows are finally going ham with it

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

They are canon though.

Coulson, Fury, and Sif are all in AoS. Peggy and whatnot in AC. All the Netflix shows happen in universe.

It's partially. More like it was and after a certain point, Feige had nothing to do with it anymore so they stopped caring or trying. So the earlier stuff fits in correctly, but like, later seasons of AoS don't work with MCU stuff. Or that the Darkhold is totally different and back.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

They are canon though.

Coulson, Fury, and Sif are all in AoS. Peggy and whatnot in AC. All the Netflix shows happen in universe.

Shows that use characters or reference the movies can be non-canon as long as the shows arent referenced in the movies.

But this is why its heavily debated.

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I mean the Darkhold was literally in AoS first. Kree were in AoS first iirc.

Theres also rumors that Charlie Cox DD might appear in No Way Home.

The shows got affected by the movies. Theyre canon.
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i think they might go like star trek does with the animated series. everything counts, until it's explicitly retcon'd.

if Feige likes something, he'll use it, and if he doesn't he'll ignore it.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

I mean the Darkhold was literally in AoS first. Kree were in AoS first iirc.

Theres also rumors that Charlie Cox DD might appear in No Way Home.

The shows got affected by the movies. Theyre canon.

The creator of Wandavision said he didn't take the Darkhold from AOS into any consideration lol. It looks completely different.

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pretty sure that's something the darkhold can do, though.

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awesome999 posted...

The movies are supposed to be disjointed from the comics. I remember an interview where Feige (? might've been someone else) saying something along the lines of "a lot more things are possible in comics because it's inherently a more fantastic medium than film. Movie going audiences suspend their disbelief much less"

He must have said that a long time ago. They literally showed Ego's comic accurate appearance and nobody batted an eye.

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MegaCamerupt posted...

This show opens up more plot holes than it fills. If the TVA restricts all timelines to the same events, then does that mean the time heist happens in every timeline? And if Loki getting the Tesseract isn't supposed to happen then why don't Tony and Cap get "reset" for going back to 1970?

Bruh, did you watch the show? Because this is explained in small words.

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Cheese_Crackers posted...

The MCU is now a deterministic hellscape where you can be melted if you make a "wrong" decision, where "wrong" is decided seemingly arbitrarily by three nebulous "beings".

Also, goodbye all of the drama of the entire rest of the MCU. Not only are the infinity stones apparently insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but everything was predetermined to go exactly as it did. Character decisions don't matter anymore, as if they make the "wrong" choice, they'll get melted.

Tony swallows his anger and doesn't attack Bucky at the end of Civil War? Melted.

Star-Lord pushes past his sorrow for the greater good and doesn't smack Thanos in the face on Titan? Melted.

What a catastrophic show.

Now let me note that I'm speaking purely from a worldbuilding perspective. The show aesthetically looks cool. The acting is fine, with some standout moments from Loki, e.g. watching the deaths of his parents and himself in the time theatre. It was neat to see Loki messing about in history as D.B. Cooper.

But that's all surface-level enjoyment. In terms of internal consistency, this is easily the worst MCU property yet.

This is it. The worst take.


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The disrespect the MCU showed towards the older shows which I was invested in (namely Netflix MCU and Agents of SHIELD) is why I have given up on the MCU. Might be good they care now, but too little too late. This alongside dropping the ball with Star Wars and and also probably Johnny Depp from Pirates of the Caribbean was kinda the nail in the coffin for live action Disney in my eyes. Not to mention the unending stream of unnecessary live action remakes...

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Darmik posted...

The creator of Wandavision said he didn't take the Darkhold from AOS into any consideration lol. It looks completely different.

Given the number of magical tomes present in the Marvel setting, like The Word of God (contains spells that allow you to manipulate reality, kinda like what Wanda did). Choosing the Darkhold might be seen as an oddly deliberate choice.

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I might have to rewatch it, but I don't think they would melt someone for saying the wrong thing for the wrong outcome. They just know what will happen.

They are only going after Loki because he could potentially fuck up every thing. The Avengers covered their asses by returning the stones, but now one of them is out of place again because Loki grabbed it.

The MCU isnt destroyed til now lol?

The MCU has been shit for a long time.

It was nice having Super hero movies be elevated unto a pedastal for a while but the repititive nature that disney shows in its cinema got boring a while ago. Kinda lost its soul after a while.

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Collat posted...

I might have to rewatch it, but I don't think they would melt someone for saying the wrong thing for the wrong outcome. They just know what will happen.

No, they do. The Time Keepers decide what the Sacred Timeline is. Miss Minutes in the cartoon says, "Maybe you started an uprising. Or were just late for work."

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I talked about this on another topic. But the me this whole idea is shit.

Loki did not break the time line. The Avengers did. And they did not fix it. Since Cap displaced himself. Loki just picked up the cube when he had chance. How is that a time violation and not the avengers actions . That is just silly .

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cjsdowg posted...

Loki did not break the time line. The Avengers did. And they did not fix it. Since Cap displaced himself. Loki just picked up the cube when he had chance. How is that a time violation and not the avengers actions . That is just silly .

pegusus123456 posted...

Bruh, did you watch the show? Because this is explained in small words.

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pegusus123456 posted...

No, they do. The Time Keepers decide what the Sacred Timeline is. Miss Minutes in the cartoon says, "Maybe you started an uprising. Or were just late for work."

Oh. Then I stand corrected.

pegusus123456 posted...

Bruh, did you watch the show? Because this is explained in small words.

Naw that was not explained. They just wrote it off as " that was suppose to happen" So the avengers are suppose to fuck up the time line. And that is cool. But in the time line that avengers fucked up. It is Loki who is breaking things be escaping. An escape made possible only by the avengers fucking things up.

And that small word jab was uncalled for. Double so when their explanation does not even add up in this show much less the MCU as a whole .

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cjsdowg posted...

Naw that was not explained. They just wrote it off as " that was suppose to happen" So the avengers are suppose to fuck up the time line. And that is cool. But in the time line that avengers fucked up. It is Loki who is breaking things be escaping. An escape made possible only by the avengers fucking things up.

Because the Avengers were supposed to go back in time. They were supposed to steal the Tesseract. Loki wasn't supposed to escape. The TVA don't care if you travel in time, they only care if you follow the path they set out for you.

cjsdowg posted...

And that small word jab was uncalled for

They were pretty small words tho

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cjsdowg posted...

I talked about this on another topic. But the me this whole idea is shit.

Loki did not break the time line. The Avengers did. And they did not fix it. Since Cap displaced himself. Loki just picked up the cube when he had chance. How is that a time violation and not the avengers actions . That is just silly .

I think, if we see the TVA as it is, an organization that has no "Earthly" moral guidelines, you see a sense of justice is not what they care about, but moreso a sense of order. They allow atrocities to happen because they deem it has to be so, even though they could stop every single one.

Loki did nothing wrong, at least in this instance, with breaking the timeline. He didn't go out of his way to mess things up, and it was indeed the Avengers who ultimately screwed up. The TVA does not care about that, though, as the Avengers going back in time was a part of the TVA's "plan." They only cared that Loki himself broke the order by acting on the screw-up, despite the fact he had no knowledge of the consequences.

I see the TVA as villains, and I think we are supposed to. In Avengers, the plot is all about how Loki is evil for attempting to take our freedom, is it not? Now, we see that the TVA is essentially Loki, in bureaucratic form. A higher being decides what we can and cannot do. I'm pretty sure we are supposed to root for its downfall, just as we rooted for Loki to lose in the original Avengers.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Because the Avengers were supposed to go back in time. They were supposed to steal the Tesseract. Loki wasn't supposed to escape. The TVA don't care if you travel in time, they only care if you follow the path they set out for you.

They were pretty small words tho

That is a poorly done hand wave and you know it. They spoke about making sure that their was one time line. The avengers made a number of them. And did not fix the it in the end.

Small words to placate people who are happy with bad writing.

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cjsdowg posted...

They spoke about making sure that their was one time line. The avengers made a number of them. And did not fix the it in the end.

And the TVA don't care because they're supposed to. That is the only thing they care about. It's an entire multidimensional, time-traveling organization devoted solely to keep you from stepping on the grass.

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I would also say that theres been like one episode - its possible the TSA is lying or hiding some details.

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BlakPeppa posted...

JLD has not been in a movie yet as BW has not been released yet. Her first appearance is in TFAWS. US Agent is up in the air, but Cap 4 seems likely.

Ms Marvel in her show first then will be in The Marvels movie.

BW was supposed to have been released when FatWS was shot.

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jumi posted...

BW was supposed to have been released when FatWS was shot.

Yes. But it didnt. Thus Valentina was introduced in a show before the movie.

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cjsdowg posted...

That is a poorly done hand wave and you know it.

The TVA know if you stray off your destined path, meaning they know the future. Therefore, they knew Stark and Antman would screw up and that Loki would get his hands on the Tesseract, and then use it. If they were that serious about divergent timelines, they should have made it so Hulk didn't break down the door causing Stark to drop the case. But since they didn't, Loki was meant to get hold of it and escape.


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008Zulu posted...

The TVA know if you stray off your destined path, meaning they know the future. Therefore, they knew Stark and Antman would screw up and that Loki would get his hands on the Tesseract, and then use it. If they were that serious about divergent timelines, they should have made it so Hulk didn't break down the door causing Stark to drop the case. But since they didn't, Loki was meant to get hold of it and escape.

Nah, he was supposed to look at it and leave it be. he got smart and then he became a variant. Why he would leave it sounds ooc imo, but thats apperantly what he was supposed to do.

edit: Hopefully they can show was what he was supposed to do in that situation.

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But Mephisto though...

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Disney is just milking the absolute fuck out of Marvel, they're gonna do anything to make content and stakes were low in the MCU anyway.

SSJKirby posted...

Gonna kind of blow your mind here but fictional characters lives have always been pre determined

That's not entirely true, sometimes characters exist longer or are developed more because they are fan favorites

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I think the TVA is being manipulated, or is eventually attacked and disabled/destroyed by the end of this, creating the multiverse, which quickly gets out of control without anyone keeping watch. Thus Multiverse of Madness.

Reorganizing the timeline back into a single timeline is the next Endgame after a couple of years of multiverse shenanigans.

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cjsdowg posted...

I talked about this on another topic. But the me this whole idea is shit.

Loki did not break the time line. The Avengers did. And they did not fix it. Since Cap displaced himself. Loki just picked up the cube when he had chance. How is that a time violation and not the avengers actions . That is just silly .

I didn't realize Loki was a poster on CE.

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cjsdowg posted...

That is a poorly done hand wave and you know it. They spoke about making sure that their was one time line. The avengers made a number of them. And did not fix the it in the end.

Small words to placate people who are happy with bad writing.

Sorry, what was Cap doing at the end of Endgame?

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cjsdowg posted...

I talked about this on another topic. But the me this whole idea is shit.

Loki did not break the time line. The Avengers did. And they did not fix it. Since Cap displaced himself. Loki just picked up the cube when he had chance. How is that a time violation and not the avengers actions . That is just silly .

As they already said the Avengers were SUPPOSED to go back in time. Thats was already a part of the sacred timeline. Loki escaping was not.

cjsdowg posted...

That is a poorly done hand wave and you know it. They spoke about making sure that their was one time line. The avengers made a number of them. And did not fix the it in the end.

Small words to placate people who are happy with bad writing.

Still one timeline. They literally nuke any others.

classic "shit out a steaming hot pile of take and run" from TC

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daynlokki posted...

As they already said the Avengers were SUPPOSED to go back in time. Thats was already a part of the sacred timeline. Loki escaping was not.

Yea, but people apperantly need the be spoonfed the information in such a way theres no questions. Probably the same people that question the parking garage fight in Fight Club where apperantly Edward Nortan drags himself across the ground about 15 feet. Just let it go and enjoy the ride homies.

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Doom_Art posted...

Why do I get the sense that you're looking for a reason to be angry TC

ViewtifulGrave posted...

TC doesnt realize that this stuff is lifted from the comics.

This, any comics fan could tell you there is a reason Loki is the one to deal with these people, just watch the story unfold.


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Lokison posted...

Yea, but people apperantly need the be spoonfed the information in such a way theres no questions. Probably the same people that question the parking garage fight in Fight Club where apperantly Edward Nortan drags himself across the ground about 15 feet. Just let it go and enjoy the ride homies.

I mean they hold our hands to explain this. As well as saying a variation could be something as small as being late to work when you werent supposed to.

More interesting than the usual determination of reality.

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I will admit, simply saying "What the Avengers did was supposed to happen" felt like a cop-out explanation initially, but it's probably something they didn't want to bother explaining in extremely verbose terms just to get the plot going.

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