Current Events > Loki singlehandedly destroyed the MCU's worldbuilding *episode 1 spoilers*

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Cheese_Crackers
06/09/21 2:19:05 PM
#1:


The MCU is now a deterministic hellscape where you can be melted if you make a "wrong" decision, where "wrong" is decided seemingly arbitrarily by three nebulous "beings".

Also, goodbye all of the drama of the entire rest of the MCU. Not only are the infinity stones apparently insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but everything was predetermined to go exactly as it did. Character decisions don't matter anymore, as if they make the "wrong" choice, they'll get melted.

Tony swallows his anger and doesn't attack Bucky at the end of Civil War? Melted.

Star-Lord pushes past his sorrow for the greater good and doesn't smack Thanos in the face on Titan? Melted.

What a catastrophic show.

Now let me note that I'm speaking purely from a worldbuilding perspective. The show aesthetically looks cool. The acting is fine, with some standout moments from Loki, e.g. watching the deaths of his parents and himself in the time theatre. It was neat to see Loki messing about in history as D.B. Cooper.

But that's all surface-level enjoyment. In terms of internal consistency, this is easily the worst MCU property yet.

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soulunison2
06/09/21 2:23:42 PM
#2:


P sure thats the point considering multiverses is literally the plot of the next phase
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Cheese_Crackers
06/09/21 2:24:50 PM
#3:


soulunison2 posted...
P sure thats the point considering multiverses is literally the plot of the next phase
So the point is to make me stop caring about anything that happened before and to eliminate all dramatic stakes for the future? Mission accomplished, I guess.

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SSJKirby
06/09/21 2:25:00 PM
#4:


Gonna kind of blow your mind here but fictional characters lives have always been pre determined

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BakonBitz
06/09/21 2:26:16 PM
#5:


Didn't the little cartoon PSA show that the TNA does what it does to prevent a multiverse occurrence from happening? And this Phase heavily seems to be leaning towards multiverse shenanigans? There's a large chance that the show is gonna end with Loki destroying the TNA, allowing true free will to happen and thus a multiverse to occur.

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Doom_Art
06/09/21 2:27:29 PM
#6:


Why do I get the sense that you're looking for a reason to be angry TC

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ViewtifulGrave
06/09/21 2:29:17 PM
#7:


TC doesnt realize that this stuff is lifted from the comics.

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BakonBitz
06/09/21 2:29:37 PM
#8:


I will admit though that learning that things were pre-determined and characters didn't actually truly have free will does hurt a bit of the tension...but those events already happened anyway. And this is probably gonna explain in-universe the existence of the What If show.

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nativengine
06/09/21 2:31:15 PM
#9:


BakonBitz posted...
Didn't the little cartoon PSA show that the TNA does what it does to prevent a multiverse occurrence from happening? And this Phase heavily seems to be leaning towards multiverse shenanigans? There's a large chance that the show is gonna end with Loki destroying the TNA, allowing true free will to happen and thus a multiverse to occur.

Pretty much, and Spider-Man No Way Home is gonna start this off, with Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness delving deeper into it. But TC wants to be mad

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Pogo_Marimo
06/09/21 2:47:10 PM
#10:


This is just about the most confusing thing people get upset about in fiction. I think it's more or less people who get discomfort recognizing (or avoid entirely) that there's is no evidence suggesting Free Will exists subconsciously applying this cognitive dissonance to the media they consume. Free Will changes nothing about a narrative. They never had free will to begin with. They're not real and everything is deterministic, in both fiction and reality. The only point of bringing up free will is to do a narrative around the concept of free will, which is what Loki is doing I assume. Often, if this situation is dictated by something more recognizable than plain cosmic reality, it's a conflict against the anti-free will entity.

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Blue_Popo
06/09/21 3:29:04 PM
#11:


Time travel and multiple universes always sucks

Too many plotholes. People will give up story telling for crossovers with dead (for a reason) franchises
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UnfairRepresent
06/09/21 8:39:28 PM
#12:


Blue_Popo posted...
Time travel and multiple universes always sucks


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daynlokki
06/09/21 8:41:16 PM
#13:


Cheese_Crackers posted...
The MCU is now a deterministic hellscape where you can be melted if you make a "wrong" decision, where "wrong" is decided seemingly arbitrarily by three nebulous "beings".

Also, goodbye all of the drama of the entire rest of the MCU. Not only are the infinity stones apparently insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but everything was predetermined to go exactly as it did. Character decisions don't matter anymore, as if they make the "wrong" choice, they'll get melted.

Tony swallows his anger and doesn't attack Bucky at the end of Civil War? Melted.

Star-Lord pushes past his sorrow for the greater good and doesn't smack Thanos in the face on Titan? Melted.

What a catastrophic show.

Now let me note that I'm speaking purely from a worldbuilding perspective. The show aesthetically looks cool. The acting is fine, with some standout moments from Loki, e.g. watching the deaths of his parents and himself in the time theatre. It was neat to see Loki messing about in history as D.B. Cooper.

But that's all surface-level enjoyment. In terms of internal consistency, this is easily the worst MCU property yet.
Ya thats because we are about to have a multiverse that explains mutants and all that jumping into the MCU.
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RadiantJoyrock
06/09/21 8:41:55 PM
#14:


Blue_Popo posted...
Time travel and multiple universes always sucks

Too many plotholes. People will give up story telling for crossovers with dead (for a reason) franchises
What a nice wrong opinion
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Derwood
06/09/21 8:42:27 PM
#15:


daynlokki posted...
Ya thats because we are about to have a multiverse that explains mutants and all that jumping into the MCU.

And that the Avengers live in a different multiverse than we do
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Lokison
06/09/21 8:42:43 PM
#16:


If that's your take away, you should stop watching the MCU as a whole and let the rest of us enjoy it

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awesome999
06/09/21 8:46:10 PM
#17:


I haven't watched a single MCU show and as far as I'm concerned, they're not canon
Obviously, the higher ups at MCU think so too as nobody from the shows appeared in the final battle in Endgame when everyone with the slightest inkling of powers could help against the Mad Titan
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Cthulhu_Fhtagn
06/09/21 8:48:37 PM
#18:


The D+ shows are absolutely canon and you're only fooling yourself if you say they aren't

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daynlokki
06/09/21 8:59:19 PM
#19:


awesome999 posted...
I haven't watched a single MCU show and as far as I'm concerned, they're not canon
Obviously, the higher ups at MCU think so too as nobody from the shows appeared in the final battle in Endgame when everyone with the slightest inkling of powers could help against the Mad Titan
Ya, youre deluding yourself if you think the shows arent canon. They are building the multiverse in the shows that gets fully shown in future movies.
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archedsoul
06/09/21 8:59:45 PM
#20:


I think the point is that so far, that's been the thing, but that somebody, a Loki, Kang, maybe even Wanda, will fuck that whole shit up, leading to a multiversal event.

awesome999 posted...
I haven't watched a single MCU show and as far as I'm concerned, they're not canon
Obviously, the higher ups at MCU think so too as nobody from the shows appeared in the final battle in Endgame when everyone with the slightest inkling of powers could help against the Mad Titan
The shows before Wandavison were made non-canon because of the huge beef between Kevin Feige and Ike Perlmutter.

The intention was to be canon, but Perlmutter is just too hard to work with. Once Kevin Feige got creator power of all of Marvel, everything starting with Disney+ became full canon.

Loki literally starts with the NYC scene from Endgame.

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Derwood
06/09/21 8:59:54 PM
#21:


daynlokki posted...
Ya, youre deluding yourself if you think the shows arent canon. They are building the multiverse in the shows that gets fully shown in future movies.

Yep. Phase 4 is going to be three shows deep before the first Phase 4 movie comes out
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Derwood
06/09/21 9:00:34 PM
#22:


archedsoul posted...


Loki literally starts with the NYC scene from Endgame.

Not Endgame, from The Avengers
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archedsoul
06/09/21 9:02:00 PM
#23:


Derwood posted...
Not Endgame, from The Avengers
Not sure what you mean. The scene is directly from Endgame, even though it's happening when Avengers is happening.

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Derwood
06/09/21 9:02:49 PM
#24:


archedsoul posted...
Not sure what you mean. The scene is directly from Endgame, even though it's happening when Avengers is happening.

Ah, I see what you mean
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awesome999
06/09/21 9:03:56 PM
#25:


SSJKirby posted...
Gonna kind of blow your mind here but fictional characters lives have always been pre determined

Not in-universe

Just read up on WV, FaWS and Loki and yeah, I'm pretty sure none of the characters introduced there will ever show up in the movies
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JustMyOpinion
06/09/21 9:04:51 PM
#26:


It's about the journey, TC.

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Derwood
06/09/21 9:05:19 PM
#27:


awesome999 posted...
Not in-universe

Just read up on WV, FaWS and Loki and yeah, I'm pretty sure none of the characters introduced there will ever show up in the movies

Except for all the ones who already showed up in the movies, you mean
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Lokison
06/09/21 9:05:42 PM
#28:


awesome999 posted...
Not in-universe

Just read up on WV, FaWS and Loki and yeah, I'm pretty sure none of the characters introduced there will ever show up in the movies
You mean the characters that were already in the movies, or the ones that were obviously only designed for the show (about the characters from the movies)?

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awesome999
06/09/21 9:08:17 PM
#29:


Derwood posted...


Except for all the ones who already showed up in the movies, you mean

Lokison posted...

You mean the characters that were already in the movies, or the ones that were obviously only designed for the show (about the characters from the movies)?

The ones introduced in the movies, yes

Do we get an explanation on how the space stone goes back in the tesseract, the power stone goes back in the orb, etc in the shows btw?
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Derwood
06/09/21 9:13:06 PM
#30:


awesome999 posted...
The ones introduced in the movies, yes

Do we get an explanation on how the space stone goes back in the tesseract, the power stone goes back in the orb, etc in the shows btw?

No, but we didn't see how that happened in Endgame either, so....
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awesome999
06/09/21 9:16:26 PM
#31:


Derwood posted...


No, but we didn't see how that happened in Endgame either, so....

Just more proof that it's impossible to make a good time travel story and they shouldn't have tried
But that's what happens when you write yourself into a corner
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BlakPeppa
06/09/21 9:17:50 PM
#32:


awesome999 posted...
The ones introduced in the movies, yes

Do we get an explanation on how the space stone goes back in the tesseract, the power stone goes back in the orb, etc in the shows btw?

Cap used the Time Stone to return all the other
stones to their previous state and then returned the Time Stone last. Strange taught him how to use it.



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Derwood
06/09/21 9:18:24 PM
#33:


BlakPeppa posted...
Cap used the Time Stone to return all the other
stones to their previous state and then returned the Time Stone last. Strange taught him how to use it.

BUT DID WE SEE IT DOE?
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archedsoul
06/09/21 9:21:27 PM
#34:


awesome999 posted...
The ones introduced in the movies, yes
I know you said already in the movies, but how do you look at this and think things are not canon and working in cohesion with movies as well?

-Monica already showed up In Captain Marvel as a kid and will return in Captain Marvel 2. Darcy and Woo are from Thor and Ant-Man

-Wanda's story will literally continue in Doctor Strange 2. Major Wandavison spoilers. Tommy and Billy are also going to return.

-Sam and Bucky are both going to be in Captain America 4.

-Julia Louis-dreyfus is in Black Widow and will be in future movies

-Loki already has Kang's love interest in it and Kang himself will be in Quantumania

-The guy writing Loki is writing Doctor Strange 2

I get where you're trying to come from considering how AoS, Netflix and others felt felt non-canon. But that was because they were having problems behind the scenes.


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awesome999
06/09/21 9:23:28 PM
#35:


BlakPeppa posted...


Cap used the Time Stone to return all the other
stones to their previous state and then returned the Time Stone last. Strange taught him how to use it.



That explains the when, not the how
For example, the reality stone that Rocket stole was a fluid they extracted from Jane. How did humans who never got to study the Reality stone or the Ether turn the Ether into the stone and back?
Same with Tesseract. You think the containment thing was just some glass? To house an Infinity Stone? They broke it, that part's easy, but to return it, you'd have to put it in the Tessearct again and Captain America took the stones and not the original containers in a briefcase
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IfGodCouldDie
06/09/21 9:25:08 PM
#36:


Lokison posted...
You mean the characters that were already in the movies, or the ones that were obviously only designed for the show (about the characters from the movies)?
I'm willing to bet a character introduced in WV shows up in The Marvels

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Darmik
06/09/21 9:26:14 PM
#37:


awesome999 posted...
That explains the when, not the how
For example, the reality stone that Rocket stole was a fluid they extracted from Jane. How did humans who never got to study the Reality stone or the Ether turn the Ether into the stone and back?
Same with Tesseract. You think the containment thing was just some glass? To house an Infinity Stone? They broke it, that part's easy, but to return it, you'd have to put it in the Tessearct again and Captain America took the stones and not the original containers in a briefcase

He figured it out. Who cares? It's not important to any story.

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awesome999
06/09/21 9:27:56 PM
#38:


archedsoul posted...
Monica already showed up In Captain Marvel as a kid and will return in Captain Marvel 2. Darcy and Woo are from Thor and Ant-Man

archedsoul posted...
Sam and Bucky are both going to be in Captain America 4.

archedsoul posted...
Julia Louis-dreyfus is in Black Widow and will be in future movies

Introduced in the movies

archedsoul posted...
Wanda's story will literally continue in Doctor Strange 2. Major Wandavison spoilers. Tommy and Billy are also going to return.

archedsoul posted...

Loki already has Kang's love interest in it and Kang himself will be in Quantumania

Fair enough
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BlakPeppa
06/09/21 9:28:52 PM
#40:


awesome999 posted...
That explains the when, not the how
For example, the reality stone that Rocket stole was a fluid they extracted from Jane. How did humans who never got to study the Reality stone or the Ether turn the Ether into the stone and back?
Same with Tesseract. You think the containment thing was just some glass? To house an Infinity Stone? They broke it, that part's easy, but to return it, you'd have to put it in the Tessearct again and Captain America took the stones and not the original containers in a briefcase

No thats what Im saying with the ether and tesseract. He used the Time Stone to return the space Stone to its tesseract state. And the reality Stone back into the ether. Like when Strange change the apple to being eaten then back to uneaten.

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awesome999
06/09/21 9:30:12 PM
#41:


Darmik posted...


He figured it out. Who cares? It's not important to any story.

It's a pretty gaping plot hole and if I can stick my dick into it, I will. Plot holes are never ok
They should never have touched time travel and now there's gonna be power creep on a galactic scale like TC's elaborated in the OP
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IfGodCouldDie
06/09/21 9:31:42 PM
#42:


Darmik posted...
He figured it out. Who cares? It's not important to any story.
But it makes a story about aliens, androids and wizards unrealistic.

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Derwood
06/09/21 9:31:55 PM
#43:


They saved themselves a lot of headaches by saying "the butterfly effect is nonsense," thus avoiding THOSE multiverse problems
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awesome999
06/09/21 9:32:04 PM
#44:


BlakPeppa posted...


No thats what Im saying with the ether and tesseract. He used the Time Stone to return the space Stone to its tesseract state. And the reality Stone back into the ether. Like when Strange change the apple to being eaten then back to uneaten.

Strange was a genius. The Ancient One even said "Strange is meant to be the best of us". So CA just learned in 10 minutes what Strange learned in 1 night?

IfGodCouldDie posted...

But it makes a story about aliens, androids and wizards unrealistic.

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far
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IfGodCouldDie
06/09/21 9:32:52 PM
#45:


BlakPeppa posted...
No thats what Im saying with the ether and tesseract. He used the Time Stone to return the space Stone to its tesseract state. And the reality Stone back into the ether. Like when Strange change the apple to being eaten then back to uneaten.
Or when Thanos brought back Vision.

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daynlokki
06/09/21 9:33:02 PM
#46:


awesome999 posted...
Strange was a genius. The Ancient One even said "Strange is meant to be the best of us". So CA just learned in 10 minutes what Strange learned in 1 night?
Id assume its a bit easier to learn from a master than teach yourself from a piece of a book.
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IfGodCouldDie
06/09/21 9:33:39 PM
#47:


awesome999 posted...
It's a pretty gaping plot hole and if I can stick my dick into it, I will. Plot holes are never ok
They should never have touched time travel and now there's gonna be power creep on a galactic scale like TC's elaborated in the OP
Are you completely unfamiliar with the levels of power that exist in the comics?

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BlakPeppa
06/09/21 9:35:01 PM
#48:


awesome999 posted...
Strange was a genius. The Ancient One even said "Strange is meant to be the best of us". So CA just learned in 10 minutes what Strange learned in 1 night?

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far

uh who said it would take Steve 10 minutes? They had a whole funeral and shit before he returned the stones. That would be more than 10 minutes time for Strange to discuss with Steve.

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BlakPeppa
06/09/21 9:40:58 PM
#49:


And honestly, this is all speculation based on what I think is plausible and Im having fun with it. We actually dont know what would happen if Steve return the stones to the same point in time they were taken. They could have merged together for all we know. Maybe Steve left them nearby(lol Steve) and the TVA showed up afterwards and reset the timeline?

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awesome999
06/09/21 9:41:26 PM
#50:


IfGodCouldDie posted...

Are you completely unfamiliar with the levels of power that exist in the comics?

The movies are supposed to be disjointed from the comics. I remember an interview where Feige (? might've been someone else) saying something along the lines of "a lot more things are possible in comics because it's inherently a more fantastic medium than film. Movie going audiences suspend their disbelief much less"
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MegaCamerupt
06/09/21 9:46:28 PM
#51:


This show opens up more plot holes than it fills. If the TVA restricts all timelines to the same events, then does that mean the time heist happens in every timeline? And if Loki getting the Tesseract isn't supposed to happen then why don't Tony and Cap get "reset" for going back to 1970?
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