Poll of the Day > The "COVID is a biological weapon" crap.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Seems like a highly debated topic on whether or not COVID-19 was a biological weapon.
What are your thoughts on this?

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Seems like a silly hypothesis without any actual evidence and nobody is debating it.

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It could be, but until I see actual evidence of it (speculation isn't evidence) I don't buy it.

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But also the whole "China made this biological weapon to hurt Trump!!!!" thing is so stupid. Just think about it. Why would they release it on their own people, to hurt their own economy, to hurt Trump? Makes no fucking sense. They would release it in America if that were the case.

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I want the lab accident possibility investigated so that it can be ruled out. Couse even if it is ruled out conclusively that won't be enough. People want someone to blame. It being a lab accident or worse release intentually as a biological weapon gives people soneone to blame and so nothing will change their mind.

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a virus that isn't that bad for young/healthy people wouldn't be much of a weapon. if someone can catch it, and not even get sick then it's not a weapon
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papercup posted...

But also the whole "China made this biological weapon to hurt Trump!!!!" thing is so stupid. Just think about it. Why would they release it on their own people, to hurt their own economy, to hurt Trump? Makes no fucking sense. They would release it in America if that were the case.

Yeah this perticular theory honestly doesn't help Trump. It relies on Trump being incompetent and China or who ever knowing he would handle the pandemic poorly. For this plot to fall apart Trump would simply have to step up as a leader and handle the pandemic properly. He didn't but "they" couldn't know that when "they" unleased the virus.

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papercup posted...

But also the whole "China made this biological weapon to hurt Trump!!!!" thing is so stupid. Just think about it. Why would they release it on their own people, to hurt their own economy, to hurt Trump? Makes no fucking sense. They would release it in America if that were the case.

Since when has the Chinese government cared about its people? Not saying I agree with covid being a bio weapon but China testing something like this on their citizens would not surprise me at all.

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It's already pretty much been shown they were lying about the lab leak. When this whole thing started, Chinese and US officials as well as WHO were claiming it wasn't possible it came from a lab (except for the slip up with China claiming the US planted it there). They were saying it was a ludicrous conspiracy theory. Now, they're saying maybe it's possible that it could have been engineered in a lab. Seems like they're obviously covering something up for sure

Sorry, hold on. What's the issue here, exactly? Countries whose militaries have spent decades researching and developing biological weapons are now feigning moral outrage that China might have been -- gasp! -- tinkering with viruses in a lab?!

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Because if it was a biological weapon it would be 500x worse.
The killing would be incredibly harder and the symptoms would hit more quickly.

"Covid-19 doesn't even exist, it's a hoax!"
"Covid-19 is just a bad cade of the sniffles, no worse than the flu!"
"Covid-19 was engineered as a biological weapon by fiendish Chinese military scientists to destroy the West!"

I suppose acknowledging Covid-19 to be a serious threat is at least progress of a kind...

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shadowsword87 posted...

Because if it was a biological weapon it would be 500x worse.
The killing would be incredibly harder and the symptoms would hit more quickly.

I actually don't see why you would think this. If someone were to release a virus as a weapon, they likely would be cautious enough to make sure it wasn't extremely lethal in case their was a mishap and it got out of control in their own country. It's been pretty effective at destroying the infrastructure globally

Criminalt posted...

"Covid-19 doesn't even exist, it's a hoax!"
"Covid-19 is just a bad cade of the sniffles, no worse than the flu!"
"Covid-19 was engineered as a biological weapon by fiendish Chinese military scientists to destroy the West!"

I suppose acknowledging Covid-19 to be a serious threat is at least progress of a kind...

Yes, different people have different ideas. Conflating ideas is fallacious

Krazy_Kirby posted...

a virus that isn't that bad for young/healthy people wouldn't be much of a weapon. if someone can catch it, and not even get sick then it's not a weapon

But it is bad for younger and healthy people, as it has been causing long term health effects in even young asymptomatic people. Like lung, heart, or even brain damage

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OhhhJa posted...

I actually don't see why you would think this. If someone were to release a virus as a weapon, they likely would be cautious enough to make sure it wasn't extremely lethal in case their was a mishap and it got out of control in their own country. It's been pretty effective at destroying the infrastructure globally

The implication is that it's an accidental release, right?
That was what people were saying initially.

creativerealms posted...

I want the lab accident possibility investigated so that it can be ruled out. Couse even if it is ruled out conclusively that won't be enough. People want someone to blame. It being a lab accident or worse release intentually as a biological weapon gives people soneone to blame and so nothing will change their mind.

Even if it was a lab accident there would be no tangible and meaningful evidence left of it. It would have long since been cleaned up and covered up. An investigation into such a matter would need to have happened a year and a half ago.

But an investigation could never properly take place to begin with because China would never let investigators from other countries in to try and prove their own wrong doing.

And let's say an investigation does somehow take place, and someone claims there is evidence that the virus originated from a lab. China refutes the evidence and says the person making the claim is lying, or fabricated the evidence. What's anyone going to do about it? Are the world's governments going to go to war with China over this?

From the beginning, whether the virus was lab soured or not is politically meaningless, on the account that China is simply too powerful.

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Criminalt posted...

"Covid-19 doesn't even exist, it's a hoax!"
"Covid-19 is just a bad cade of the sniffles, no worse than the flu!"
"Covid-19 was engineered as a biological weapon by fiendish Chinese military scientists to destroy the West!"

I suppose acknowledging Covid-19 to be a serious threat is at least progress of a kind...

What even is the connection of the 3rd line (which by the way is a strawman) with the 1st and 2nd lines?

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There's literally zero evidence for it

It's birtherism logic. Suggest something that's technically possible and provide no proof

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Blightzkrieg posted...

Suggest something that's technically possible and provide no proof

Technically possible, but also virtually impossible to disprove, so they can never be wrong.

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MondoMan180 posted...

What even is the connection of the 3rd line (which by the way is a strawman) with the 1st and 2nd lines?

They were all comments I've read that were written by a variety of MAGA types over the last year or so. I don't know whether viewpoints on the fruitcake fringe actually evolve in response to changing events and new information (which often seemed to boil down to "whatever Trump's opinion happens to be today"), or whether some of these people manage to juggle contradictory viewpoints in their heads simultaneously and hold them all to be equally valid.

Like I said: if there's a movement towards blaming China for unleashing a dangerous weapon, whether intentionally or accidentally, at least it's an acknowledgement that Covid does pose a threat, which represents a step up from denial and complacency. I'm just trying to find the silver lining here.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

There's literally zero evidence for it

It's birtherism logic. Suggest something that's technically possible and provide no proof

But governments and organizations denying the lab leak was a possibility and now admitting it could be... they were covering something up. They were lying. Where's there's smoke, there's fire as they say

lol

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It should be investigated, but we might not be able to find out for certain

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OhhhJa posted...

But governments and organizations denying the lab leak was a possibility and now admitting it could be... they were covering something up. They were lying. Where's there's smoke, there's fire as they say

Why would world governments be protecting China

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OhhhJa posted...

Yes, different people have different ideas. Conflating ideas is fallacious

Nope. I know somebody who did all 3

ForteEXE3850 posted...

Even if it was a lab accident there would be no tangible and meaningful evidence left of it. It would have long since been cleaned up and covered up. An investigation into such a matter would need to have happened a year and a half ago.

But an investigation could never properly take place to begin with because China would never let investigators from other countries in to try and prove their own wrong doing.

And let's say an investigation does somehow take place, and someone claims there is evidence that the virus originated from a lab. China refutes the evidence and says the person making the claim is lying, or fabricated the evidence. What's anyone going to do about it? Are the world's governments going to go to war with China over this?

From the beginning, whether the virus was lab soured or not is politically meaningless, on the account that China is simply too powerful.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)
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OhhhJa posted...

But governments and organizations denying the lab leak was a possibility and now admitting it could be... they were covering something up. They were lying. Where's there's smoke, there's fire as they say

The simplest explanation is that they weren't completely certain of it, but didn't want to vocally entertain the possibility because of a preponderance of nutjobs who would treat that as all the reason they needed to start kidnapping Asians and holding them for ransom to punish China. That, and America's struggled enough with the attitude of "this pandemic's not my fault, why should I have to take precautions?" even without having a more definitive scapegoat for it, so giving them a scapegoat would only make that even worse.

Basically, speculating like that in the early days of the pandemic would have been extremely irresponsible. Speculating like that now, less so. If there were some grand conspiracy to keep hidden, they likely wouldn't be admitting anything different.

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Even if it did come from a lab, it's far more likely to be a "killer bees" type situation. Where they were studying infectious diseases and due to incompetence and idiocy, a strain got out. Similar to how killer bees were mated in a lab to try and create a "better" bee, but it went horribly wrong and then the dumb fucks accidentally let them escape.
Not malicious intent, but pathetic incompetence.

adjl posted...

The simplest explanation is that they weren't completely certain of it, but didn't want to vocally entertain the possibility because of a preponderance of nutjobs who would treat that as all the reason they needed to start kidnapping Asians and holding them for ransom to punish China

This is stupid unfounded speculation. And it did the opposite. They ignored the obvious and it helped fuel the conspiracy theories. That's what happens when you try to brush something under the rug when people already suspect it. Also, I don't exactly see how blaming a wet market in China wouldn't potentially cause the same anger toward Chinese people

Blightzkrieg posted...

Why would world governments be protecting China

Anyone with ties to WHO will go with the WHO narrative 100% of the time.

There's no evidence to suggest its a weapon. Most scientists think that its completely natural. For the time being, I'm going to listen to the overwhelming majority of the people who dedicated their lives to this field. We'll deal with any new evidence as it comes.

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OhhhJa posted...

Also, I don't exactly see how blaming a wet market in China wouldn't potentially cause the same anger toward Chinese people

Oh, that is one of the sources of anger, calling what is essentially a farmers market a disgusting and horrible place where people are killing live animals.
Here's a chinese cooking youtuber just going through his local wet market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whbyuy2nHBg

waterdeepchu posted...

There's no evidence to suggest its a weapon.

I'm not necessarily saying it's a weapon either though. Mainly just arguing that I believe they were covering up the lab leak and I find it hard to believe anything that people say that were involved in what I think is a massive cover up. And I do believe they were probably doing gain of function research. Fauci admitted as much

why do we need a 4th active topic on this godforsaken subject

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OhhhJa posted...

This is stupid unfounded speculation.

So is "this is a massive cover up and something big is going on."

OhhhJa posted...

And it did the opposite. They ignored the obvious and it helped fuel the conspiracy theories. That's what happens when you try to brush something under the rug when people already suspect it.

You really think that people were angrier because they said it didn't come from a lab than they would be if they said there was a significant chance?

OhhhJa posted...

Also, I don't exactly see how blaming a wet market in China wouldn't potentially cause the same anger toward Chinese people

There's less intent involved in that explanation. Blame the Chinese government specifically for releasing it from a lab, and you've got a specific target for anger. Blame some hapless dude who bought some bad meat, and while that's symptomatic of a broader problem with China's governance, there's less capacity to directly blame them.

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lmfao at when theories start to contradict one another and point at others as 'stupider'

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adjl posted...

So is "this is a massive cover up and something big is going on."

So you've considered that there was no evidence of a lab leak so they didn't speculate about that. But where did the so called evidence for the wet market pangolin come from then now that we know that likely wasn't true? Hmm could they have just made it up to cover something up?

adjl posted...

You really think that people were angrier because they said it didn't come from a lab than they would be if they said there was a significant chance?

Where did I say angrier? I said they fueled conspiracy theories by ignoring a very possible plausible explanation

adjl posted...

There's less intent involved in that explanation. Blame the Chinese government specifically for releasing it from a lab, and you've got a specific target for anger. Blame some hapless dude who bought some bad meat, and while that's symptomatic of a broader problem with China's governance, there's less capacity to directly blame them.

I think you've got it backwards my dude. Blame the government and there's less animosity toward the Chinese people as a whole amd its directed at big bad government. Blame a wet market and people can be mad at what they perceive as a cultural problem in chins that leads to dangerous viruses

Overall, I think you're going out of your way to make excuses for obvious liars

I still think it's hilarious that the lab angle was completely dismissed when Trump was in office but now it's suddenly a major investigation and a serious allegation under Biden. Really demonstrates how the media and the machine treats them differently. Granted, the whole thing could be a scheme to make it look like the thing was investigated.

Regardless, I'm not sure I have an opinion one way or the other. The wet markets have been responsible for so many of the world's major outbreaks (and this wet market in particular), although it's possible that the wet market has been used as a cover for possible leaks from a lab.

papercup posted...

But also the whole "China made this biological weapon to hurt Trump!!!!" thing is so stupid. Just think about it. Why would they release it on their own people, to hurt their own economy, to hurt Trump? Makes no fucking sense. They would release it in America if that were the case.

Just because it could have been designed as a weapon, doesn't mean the release was planned. It's possible that it could have been a lab accident. Otherwise with a contagion, there's really no way to limit who it impacts so no matter where you release it, the thing will spread everywhere.

And I think it's a pretty safe bet that China -- and other nations -- are developing biological weapons.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

a virus that isn't that bad for young/healthy people wouldn't be much of a weapon. if someone can catch it, and not even get sick then it's not a weapon

Depends on what you're trying to achieve. Reducing one segment of the population could be massively beneficial.

InfernalFive posted...

Since when has the Chinese government cared about its people? Not saying I agree with covid being a bio weapon but China testing something like this on their citizens would not surprise me at all.

Considering that they were locking up doctors and whistleblowers, I think it's a pretty safe bet they don't give a shit about their population.

Blightzkrieg posted...

There's literally zero evidence for it

It's almost like there hasn't been any investigation into it or something.


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Zeus posted...

It's almost like there hasn't been any investigation into it or something.

Birtherism, Hunter Biden, 2020 election

Y'all don't have a great track record with this shit. Very "moron who cried wolf" situation.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

Hunter Biden

Lmao I don't know how you can lump this in with the others. That dude is a walking scandal. He's basically a neo liberal Rob Ford

OhhhJa posted...

I said they fueled conspiracy theories by ignoring a very possible plausible explanation

Everything fuels the conspiracy theories. No matter what was said, they would twist it to fit. Thats what happens in most conspiracy theories...
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OhhhJa posted...

This is stupid unfounded speculation

The irony

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The people who think it's a biological weapon are mostly the same people that think it's just a flu, who are also the same people that think Trump did a great job of managing the pandemic and getting vaccines created, as well as being the same people who won't be getting a vaccine because they think vaccines are part of a global conspiracy.

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Metalsonic66 posted...

The irony

Except that the government is now talking about investigating this so...

But I think zeus is right. This will be one of those cases of the government investigating itself so they can claim there's nothing to see here

OhhhJa posted...

Lmao I don't know how you can lump this in with the others. That dude is a walking scandal. He's basically a neo liberal Rob Ford

he isnt a politician

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OhhhJa posted...

Except that the government is now talking about investigating this so...

So... it's still stupid, unfounded speculation

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Mead posted...

he isnt a politician

I'm aware

OhhhJa posted...

But where did the so called evidence for the wet market pangolin come from then now that we know that likely wasn't true?

By finding a genetically similar virus in the local bat (not pangolin) population, mostly. The wet market was believed to be the most plausible route of transmission between said bats and humans.

OhhhJa posted...

Where did I say angrier?

I was talking about people getting angry, and you talked about that getting worse. Worse than angry is angrier.

OhhhJa posted...

I said they fueled conspiracy theories by ignoring a very possible plausible explanation

As Link said, conspiracy theories were going to happen regardless of what they did or didn't do. When people don't fully understand the situation, they jump to conclusions and outlandishly demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect. This was never going to be a simple enough situation for everyone to understand it, so there were always going to be conspiracy theories.

OhhhJa posted...

I think you've got it backwards my dude. Blame the government and there's less animosity toward the Chinese people as a whole amd its directed at big bad government. Blame a wet market and people can be mad at what they perceive as a cultural problem in china that leads to dangerous viruses

Could go either way. Lashing out against the Chinese government can absolutely lead to harming Asians for the sake of hurting it, whereas broader culture is a more abstract entity that you can't deliver a metaphorical ransom to. Neither is ideal.

Zeus posted...

I still think it's hilarious that the lab angle was completely dismissed when Trump was in office but now it's suddenly a major investigation and a serious allegation under Biden.

That's mostly because Trump laced it into a never-ending string of baseless, nonsensical ramblings in a desperate effort to deflect blame from himself (which describes most of Trump's reactions to things that went wrong during his presidency, including its end), whereas if it's being investigated seriously now, it's because of actual evidence. One's an actual reason to suspect there's some merit to the theory, the other is a textbook demonstration of the saying "even a broken clock is right twice a day."

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Metalsonic66 posted...

So... it's still stupid, unfounded speculation

Let's think critically for a moment shall we. Investigations were allegedly conducted immediately after the breakout became public knowledge. The investigations found that the virus originated from a bat in a wet market. Then soon after they decided it was a pangolin. We were never really given details of this investigation, but we were told that this was definitely the origin and they shut down the wet market. Any questioning of that narrative was shot down and you were called a conspiracy theorist. Now they're telling us that they're interested in re-investigating this. Ya know... the thing they were saying was something only idiot conspiracy theorist entertained before.

Why would you put any trust in these governments and organizations? They will lie to your face at any given moment when it suits them.

I bet most people probably also don't know that the wet market is literally within walking distance of the lab.

What I think happened which could be wrong because... speculation. I think the US, China, and WHO all have their hands dirty because they were funding this lab. They tried to cover their tracks and they're now going to investigate themselves so they can say... ah ok it's nothing. Let's not forget china silenced doctors, scientists and whistle-blowers too

OhhhJa posted...

Let's think critically for a moment shall we.

I would love it if you would

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OhhhJa posted...

and you were called a conspiracy theorist.

I've never understand why this is supposed to be a bad thing. You're literally theorizing that a conspiracy exists. Why would you not be called a conspiracy theorist for doing so?

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