Current Events > Cop who donated to Kyle Rittenhouse furious that he was fired too quickly.

(+) Yeah! (+)

totalnerdken posted...

No, no it's not. Employers are not allowed to fire for any mistake.

Depends where you but a lot of places can fire you for fun

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totalnerdken posted...

No they can't. There are laws against that. That's why a lot of places will just make it a nightmare for you to work there until you quit on your own. Because they know they'll be heavily fined if they just fire you for a small reason.

Yes they can

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Unsugarized_Foo posted...

Depends where you but a lot of places can fire you for fun

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Unsugarized_Foo posted...

Yes they can

Unfortunately, he's right about most places in the U.S. but it also depends on the state and if it's a government job

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totalnerdken posted...

No they can't. There are laws against that. That's why a lot of places will just make it a nightmare for you to work there until you quit on your own. Because they know they'll be heavily fined if they just fire you for a small reason.

Virginia is an at-will state. As long as you aren't being fired for a protected reason (race, sex, age, religion, etc...), then it's tough luck.

The fact that he did violate a rule for his job makes it an even more "fair, next" situation.

If the discussion moves to how at-will laws and job security is in America, that can be discussed. But....it's tough luck.

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joe40001 posted...

That's kinda fucked up.

He didn't commit a crime or anything.

I never said he committed a crime. I said he's a bad person. Which is why I'm glad he lost his pension.

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totalnerdken posted...

That's not the issue. The use of a work email for private use CAN result in some kind of reprimanding but according to his legal representative in the article, the worst that should have resulted from it is a warning. Your employer can't just outright fire you for any little thing, there are laws in place to prevent that. If you think he should have been fired for doing it, then what do you think about every other job? Should every job have the right to outright fire anyone for any little mistake?

If his work broke their own procedure, he may have a case. But lawyers will argue for anything, saying, "His lawyer says xxx" is meaningless.
I live in Florida. They can fire you for ANYTHING (that's not federally protected). Also, any major employer is going to have a social media and IT policy that explicitly forbids using work related accounts and work computers for personal use and more importantly explicitly forbids representing your personal affiliations as your employer's (without their permission). The latter is usually an instant fireable offense almost anywhere. You usually sign to agree to this day 1 of employment, if not earlier. Most public companies would rather find you fist fighting a customer than misrepresenting them through your work email.

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totalnerdken posted...

Yes, but he works for the government, not a private organization.

Again. They had a reason to fire him. So it doesn't matter if it was government or private.

He violated his own job's rules. That's enough.

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joe40001 posted...

I'm not saying he was right, but he didn't commit a crime nor did he (as I understand it) give any money in support of a crime.

Not only that, but even the most obviously guilty scum still have a right to legal defense. Getting to the point where people are villainized and even lose their jobs for contributing to somebody having a legal defense is not a direction that I want society going down. I seriously doubt the people happy about this would feel the same if he was being fired for donating to the defense fund of one of the BLM protestors who got violent and ended up arrested.

DarkChozoGhost posted...

I never said he committed a crime. I said he's a bad person. Which is why I'm glad he lost his pension.

So you like it when "bad people" suffer?

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Probably already been stated, but you should NOT get fired for donating to the defense fund of ANY american no matter what. Everyone has the right to a trial, innocent until proven guilty.

In this case though... dude used his job email and also made a post with his name lmao.

Dude shoulda just donated anonymously with a private email.

Either way, pretty sick how the media goes after people who are donating to a defense fund. These people dont even want TRIALS anymore. Fuck the right to a fair trial eh? Fuck the constitution, amirite?

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Tenlaar posted...

Not only that, but even the most obviously guilty scum still have a right to legal defense. Getting to the point where people are villainized and even lose their jobs for contributing to somebody having a legal defense is not a direction that I want society going down. I seriously doubt the people happy about this would feel the same if he was being fired for donating to the defense fund of one of the BLM protestors who got violent and ended up arrested.

Yeah, i mean some of these people dont even want trials anymore. Shits becoming pretty nuts lately. At least the sentiment is.

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People defending this cop with the same "actually George Floyd was in the wrong " energy and reaching

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He's guilty of wrongthink, so obviously he needs to be fired, have all income removed, lose his home, and not be able to afford to take care of his wife who is dieing of cancer.

Rhylos posted...

He's guilty of wrongthink, so obviously he needs to be fired, have all income removed, lose his home, and not be able to afford to take care of his wife who is dieing of cancer.

Sigless user logic

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Claims it is a private donation, but uses work e-mail.

Fair next.

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Loves law enforcement but monetarily supports a murderer? Riiiiiight.

KainFourteh posted...

Loves law enforcement but monetarily supports a murderer? Riiiiiight.

What is self defense

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DarkChozoGhost posted...

I never said he committed a crime. I said he's a bad person. Which is why I'm glad he lost his pension.

How is he a bad person? You know him? You know everything he's done in life?

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Lathissamus posted...

What is self defense

What Kyle Rittenhouse's victims were doing before he murdered them.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

People defending this cop with the same "actually George Floyd was in the wrong " energy and reaching

This doesn't even make sense and it's pathetic how you just ignore all of the valid points that have been made in order to drop a nonsense attempt at an insult.

Lathissamus posted...

Why is that depressing?

Because cops all the time get fired for doing terrible things on the job and get rehired in the next town/precinct over.
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Rhylos posted...

He's guilty of wrongthink, so obviously he needs to be fired, have all income removed, lose his home, and not be able to afford to take care of his wife who is dieing of cancer.

dying*

Lathissamus posted...

What is self defense

Not what Kyle Rittenhouse was doing
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Yeah you can't travel somewhere with the intention of fucking people up, illegally get a gun, murder the people you hate

Then claim self defense

That's madness

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Lathissamus posted...

What is self defense

Which isn't what it was.

How come a free person in America cant express a personal opinion to someone without getting fired?

plus it sounds like due process was violated

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skermac posted...

How come a free person in America cant express a personal opinion to someone without getting fired?

plus it sounds like due process was violated

Personal opinion. Work e-mail. Pick one.

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I can't say I feel the slightest bit bad for this officer. If he was smart and used a personal email and didn't identify himself as law enforcement or try to label the majority of law enforcement as believing a certain thing then he isn't in trouble. Someone that unbelievably stupid has no business having any sort of authority.

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ChocoboMog123 posted...

Your work email is not private. Holy shit. Your employer has legal access to EVERYTHING in your work email, to various degrees. Conducting private business through your work email is absolutely a first offense resume generating event in any business, let alone claiming to represent your employer or coworkers without their approval.
Do not use your work email for private activities. Do not represent your employer without their permission. This is not a "tricky one", this is like day 1 orientation at McDonald's.

This. Termination is absolutely "fair, next," any anyone saying otherwise is obviously trolling or woefully ignorant.

TheOtherMike posted...

This. Termination is absolutely "fair, next," any anyone saying otherwise is obviously trolling or woefully ignorant.

Thinking that using an official email for a private purpose doesn't rise to the level of immediate firing can only come from trolling or ignorance? I think it's more likely that the actual infraction isn't what you're basing your reaction on.

Tenlaar posted...

Thinking that using an official email for a private purpose doesn't rise to the level of immediate firing can only come from trolling or ignorance? I think it's more likely that the actual infraction isn't what you're basing your reaction on.

It doesn't mean that if he used his work email for signing up for an ESPN+ account that he should be immediately fired, but it does mean that the work can if they want to.

You're using work resources for personal benefit. Use personal resources if you want to.
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The expectation that anything you do on a work email is private is extremely flawed. At a minimum your employer has complete access to anything you have sent or received on it.

My guess is that even if just used his work email to donate and then either didn't leave a message or left him a generic "Hang in there" message he probably would have faced pretty minimal punishment. But using his work email and then claiming that he has the support of the police could absolutely be construed as a official endorsement from that police department. Which is a pretty big problem and forces the department to take measures to distance themselves.

So fair next.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

It doesn't mean that if he used his work email for signing up for an ESPN+ account that he should be immediately fired, but it does mean that the work can if they want to.

You're using work resources for personal benefit. Use personal resources if you want to.

Saying "your work can fire you for any petty reason they want" doesn't mean anything. It's a nonsense, go nowhere argument. Also we aren't talking about a normal job for a private company.

Compsognathus posted...

The expectation that anything you do on a work email is private is extremely flawed. At a minimum your employer has complete access to anything you have sent or received on it.

My guess is that even if just used his work email to donate and then either didn't leave a message or left him a generic "Hang in there" message he probably would have faced pretty minimal punishment. But using his work email and then claiming that he has the support of the police could absolutely be construed as a official endorsement from that police department. Which is a pretty big problem and forces the department to take measures to distance themselves.

So fair next.

It was anonymous, saying that his use of it made it into an official endorsement is an absurd argument. The connection was only revealed after the site was hacked.

Tenlaar posted...

Saying "your work can fire you for any petty reason they want" doesn't mean anything. It's a nonsense, go nowhere argument. Also we aren't talking about a normal job for a private company.

That's not a petty reason. That's using work resources for non-work jobs. There's most likely something in the T&C/work agreement that you won't do that sort of thing.

And your argument of "this isn't a private company" makes it even worse. You're using American tax dollars for things that aren't government work. That can be seen as wasting tax money. Government workers are under even more scrutiny with regards to ethical use of work resources than private companies will be because you're being funded by federal money.

Don't use work resources for non-work jobs. When I want to goof off at work, I use my laptop/phone, not the work computer. Especially because they can see what I do when on the work computer.
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Fucking gross that he would compare this to saying Black Lives Matter

not surprising though of course

fuck this guy

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

That's not a petty reason. That's using work resources for non-work jobs. There's most likely something in the T&C/work agreement that you won't do that sort of thing.

And your argument of "this isn't a private company" makes it even worse. You're using American tax dollars for things that aren't government work. That can be seen as wasting tax money. Government workers are under even more scrutiny with regards to ethical use of work resources than private companies will be because you're being funded by federal money.

Don't use work resources for non-work jobs. When I want to goof off at work, I use my laptop/phone, not the work computer. Especially because they can see what I do when on the work computer.

Yes, using a work email account for a personal reason is a petty reason for firing on it's own. Calling it a use of company resources worthy of immediate termination is just ridiculous. I haven't seen anything saying he did this while at work, either. There is a reasonable chance that it's just the only email account he has because he practically never uses email outside of work reasons.

TheGoldenEel posted...

Fucking gross that he would compare this to saying Black Lives Matter

not surprising though of course

fuck this guy

That's a common right wing misdirection

"How can you say it's wrong for me to support terrorism/murder when you support equality? Both sides "

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Tenlaar posted...

Yes, using a work email account for a personal reason is a petty reason for firing on it's own. Calling it a use of company resources worthy of immediate termination is just ridiculous. I haven't seen anything saying he did this while at work, either. There is a reasonable chance that it's just the only email account he has because he practically never uses email outside of work reasons.

It's incredibly easy to make an email account for a donation. That's not an argument for him using his work email for something personal.

Now, if it's something like my work email where I got it through going to school at my university and now it's also become my work email because I work at said university, that's a huge grey area because it's an email that I've had/used before work for personal reasons because it is a personal email. But if I ever wanted to use an email for something I didn't want work to know about, I'll use either my "spam" email or just make a new one. Because it's fucking easy to do.

Again, don't use work emails for personal reasons especially in at-will states and especially when ethical concerns could be brought up with it being a government resource as well.
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Tenlaar posted...

It was anonymous, saying that his use of it made it into an official endorsement is an absurd argument. The connection was only revealed after the site was hacked.

A police officer made a statement saying police support Rittenhouse with an official police email. Even if he never intended it to see the light of day, it did and now the department has to take measures to separate itself.

Unfortunately being hacked doesn't mean all of the hacked info is now off limits for people to make judgments on. If a hack revealed a police officer was a regular on Stormfront you can bet they would be disciplined. If a hack revealed an officer looked at child porn, they would absolutely be fired.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

It's incredibly easy to make an email account for a donation. That's not an argument for him using his work email for something personal.

Now, if it's something like my work email where I got it through going to school at my university and now it's also become my work email because I work at said university, that's a huge grey area because it's an email that I've had/used before work for personal reasons because it is a personal email. But if I ever wanted to use an email for something I didn't want work to know about, I'll use either my "spam" email or just make a new one. Because it's fucking easy to do.

Again, don't use work emails for personal reasons especially in at-will states and especially when ethical concerns could be brought up with it being a government resource as well.

Obviously it's not an argument "for" it. I'm not arguing in favor of using official emails for personal reasons. I am simply saying that it is not an offense that rises to the level of immediate termination at all. You repeating the same things over and over again doesn't change that, and neither does you going back to talking about government jobs like they're private company jobs.

Compsognathus posted...

A police officer made a statement saying police support Rittenhouse with an official police email. Even if he never intended it to see the light of day, it did and now the department has to take measures to separate itself.

Unfortunately being hacked doesn't mean all of the hacked info is now off limits for people to make judgments on. If a hack revealed a police officer was a regular on Stormfront you can bet they would be disciplined. If a hack revealed an officer looked at child porn, they would absolutely be fired.

It was anonymous. It was entirely reasonable for him to expect that his donation and statement of support would never be linked to any particular cop, let alone department. Arguing that could be seen as him intending to make some kind of official statement of support on behalf of the department is completely unreasonable.

Tenlaar posted...

It was anonymous. It was entirely reasonable for him to expect that his donation and statement of support would never be linked to any particular cop, let alone department. Arguing that could be seen as him intending to make some kind of official statement of support on behalf of the department is completely unreasonable.

But it ended up not being anonymous. His intention means nothing. The department still has a situation where they have to distance themselves from this.

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Compsognathus posted...

But it ended up not being anonymous. His intention means nothing. The department still has a situation where they have to distance themselves from this.

His intention absolutely does mean something, even if you want to dismiss it. You're just confirming that his firing was out of fear of some political blowback and not because the actual infraction was severe with this argument.

Tenlaar posted...

neither does you going back to talking about government jobs like they're private company jobs.

Bro. I have a government job. I know more about them then you do. It being a government job isn't a tally for your argument, it's a tally for mine. There's tons of ethical trainings and tons of things about how you're not supposed to use work resources for personal reasons. He could have used a personal email and then he'd actually have an argument against being fired. Yes, I'd rather a cop not make a donation to Rittenhouse and make the statement he did, but there's also nothing you can do if he did it with his own personal resources and didn't use work property to do personal things.

Just because you don't believe this should rise to the level of firing doesn't mean that firing isn't an appropriate response. Don't use work resources for personal gain. Especially when those resources are government resources.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Bro. I have a government job. I know more about them then you do.

Don't use work resources for personal gain.

Yeah, this isn't worth engaging.

His intention was to pay a murderer anonymously. Fuck that scumbag.

Tenlaar posted...

Yeah, this isn't worth engaging.

Yes, you're not worth engaging because you don't understand simple facts.

I just wish it was noon already so I have stuff to do besides engage with trolls who don't understand simple work facts.
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