Current Events > Why do managers care if you take time off?

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Njolk
05/12/21 9:59:11 AM
#1:




Like I can't comprehend this allegiance to a company... It's like my manager is surprised I have more important things to do. And he's a nice normal guy, but he's basically shaming me for leaving the company for two weeks

Where does this stem from, managers of ce?
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Cocytus
05/12/21 10:03:33 AM
#3:


Because I need to fill this shift.
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Jiek_Fafn
05/12/21 10:04:56 AM
#4:


Because they then have to figure out how to spread your workload to other people effectively. Idk what kind of work you do, but this can range from very simple to the whole company essentially stops while they wait for you to come back.

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Squall28
05/12/21 10:06:27 AM
#5:


Because the team the manager is responsible for takes a productivity hit when people are missing. If the company can't meet Customer expectations, then the manager gets in trouble

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PMarth2002
05/12/21 10:07:16 AM
#6:


ime they don't as long as you give sufficient notice and there's not like a bunch of people calling out or something. I've been pretty lucky to have reasonable managers though.

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Xavier_On_High
05/12/21 10:08:00 AM
#7:


When I was a manager in retail, having to plan a month of rotas in advance was made all the more difficult by the fact that employees were only required to give two weeks notice before taking time off, so actually covering that time off was almost always difficult.

That said, I never resented anyone for it. I had no real allegiance to the company, and I don't have a work ethic that puts my job first, so meh.

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SevenTenths
05/12/21 10:09:39 AM
#8:


Because you either didn't give much notice, someone else is also taking the same time, or your employer is shit.

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BakonBitz
05/12/21 10:13:24 AM
#9:


SevenTenths posted...
Because you either didn't give much notice, someone else is also taking the same time, or your employer is shit.
I would go with the latter. I dunno how it is with TC's employer, but here you literally have to ask for vacation time off several weeks in advance. If they accept it but still give you a hard time for any of the other reasons, then maybe they shouldn't have accepted it in the first place.

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Jagr_68
05/12/21 10:29:19 AM
#10:


I always give my manager 2 or 3 days in advance before saying I need a day off as soon as the following week assuming no more than 2 people in my role take the same day off and that's perfectly fine,

2 weeks notice is really fucking stupid and a clear sign that the company is a chaotic dumpster fire if one little thing goes wrong.

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pinky0926
05/12/21 10:30:00 AM
#11:


Convincing the directorship that you care about the company almost as much as they do is how people get promoted to managers

Just like how people get on the board by sacrificing their humanity for the sake of fiscal growth

Capitalism is dirt

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Njolk
05/12/21 11:31:12 AM
#12:


pinky0926 posted...
Convincing the directorship that you care about the company almost as much as they do is how people get promoted to managers

Just like how people get on the board by sacrificing their humanity for the sake of fiscal growth

Capitalism is dirt

Ah this must be it

I just didn't understand the psychology. If I was a manager and they didn't give me enough notice I STILL wouldn't care, this is the company's problem, not mine and certainly not the peon's who wants a vacation

But you're right, they're in that position because they've adopted the idea that the problems of thr company matter in some way
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Giant_Aspirin
05/12/21 11:57:49 AM
#13:


Njolk posted...
If I was a manager and they didn't give me enough notice I STILL wouldn't care, this is the company's problem, not mine

part of being a manager is taking responsibility for things. managers are responsible for things getting done and when those things don't get done, it becomes the managers problem.

im very surprised that this needs to be explained

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Njolk
05/12/21 12:01:42 PM
#14:


Giant_Aspirin posted...


im very surprised that this needs to be explained

But why do they shame you for disappointing the company?

I'm more curious why there is this attachment to the company than why being short staffed makes them work harder
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TyVulpine
05/12/21 12:04:13 PM
#15:


Because of the bottom line. It reflects poorly on the store to corporate if people are constantly calling out or taking time off.

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codey
05/12/21 12:10:59 PM
#16:


Njolk posted...
But why do they shame you for disappointing the company?

I'm more curious why there is this attachment to the company than why being short staffed makes them work harder

If the team a manager oversees doesn't get their work done they get fired. The "attachment to the company" is about staying employed, it has nothing to do with some imaginary emotional connection where they don't want to disappoint the higher ups because they love the company so much.


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Squall28
05/12/21 12:16:30 PM
#17:


codey posted...
If the team a manager oversees doesn't get their work done they get fired. The "attachment to the company" is about staying employed, it has nothing to do with some imaginary emotional connection where they don't want to disappoint the higher ups because they love the company so much.

Exactly. Making sure your team runs is their job.

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uwa ej
05/12/21 12:18:46 PM
#18:


Two weeks is a long time, tbh. Most people don't take more than a week at once. Are you able to work remotely?
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ElatedVenusaur
05/12/21 12:20:17 PM
#19:


Damn, I wish I worked somewhere where management was actually held accountable.
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TyVulpine
05/12/21 12:27:31 PM
#20:


ElatedVenusaur posted...
Damn, I wish I worked somewhere where management was actually held accountable.
Where I work, the store's manager had been there from the time it opened @2006 until he was forced by corporate to transfer to another store back in 2016 after 3 guns disappeared. Since then, we've gone through about 4 store managers. One quit when regional came to have a talk with him about something, he stood up, took off his radio headset and said "I'm going to go work with my wife instead!" and walked out. TBH, he was an ass that played favorites. Our current SM, she's pretty nice and fair.

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NoxObscuras
05/12/21 12:45:40 PM
#21:


Get out of retail man, that's all I can say. I work for the government (state level) and it's never an issue, so long as I give advanced notice.

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ElatedVenusaur
05/12/21 9:48:34 PM
#22:


TyVulpine posted...
Where I work, the store's manager had been there from the time it opened @2006 until he was forced by corporate to transfer to another store back in 2016 after 3 guns disappeared. Since then, we've gone through about 4 store managers. One quit when regional came to have a talk with him about something, he stood up, took off his radio headset and said "I'm going to go work with my wife instead!" and walked out. TBH, he was an ass that played favorites. Our current SM, she's pretty nice and fair.
My manager's been there for six years. Before he got there, my department(customer service) was surprisingly stable, but ever since he got here, it's been a constant churn of people, especially at supervisor(that team leader has since become a store team leader). He straight-up doesn't know what goes on the department or how to do my job or maintenance(like, not even the most basic stuff). Multiple people have complained about him, both to Store Leadership and to Regional.
Nope, dude's untouchable. Must be incredible at kissing ass, it would be his only strength. He spends 90% of his time in back.
He's also annoying and nitpicky as hell, but he mostly leaves me alone. I think he sees me as beyond hope lol.
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Darmik
05/12/21 10:08:03 PM
#23:


It's amusing reading this topic when you're in a country where you are given 4 weeks paid leave every single year. Really changes the culture.

If the manager has enough notice to organize how things will run with the employee gone then there shouldn't be any issues or guilt trips. If they are unable to do this they are a poor manager.

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Kloe_Rinz
05/12/21 10:14:36 PM
#24:


i always give suitable notice for leave and have never been denied once. Do Americans get leave by law? If you work retail in America are you entitled to 4 weeks holiday a year not including sick leave and emergencies?
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TyVulpine
05/12/21 10:19:57 PM
#25:


Kloe_Rinz posted...
i always give suitable notice for leave and have never been denied once. Do Americans get leave by law? If you work retail in America are you entitled to 4 weeks holiday a year not including sick leave and emergencies?
Nope. A lot of companies give 3 weeks at most for the entire year. Other companies, like Walmart, time off is SLOWLY earned.

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12amMadman
05/12/21 11:11:46 PM
#26:


I always just call in the day of and take off as many days as I need, people love OT so who cares about the manager

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ExtremeLuchador
05/12/21 11:12:17 PM
#27:


Someone I knew worked at a bank. She got her honeymoon approved off like 6 months in advance. They called her during her honeymoon and threatened to fire her if she didn't come in and cover shifts.

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Axiom
05/12/21 11:13:49 PM
#28:


Puts work on them and managers don't like work

Not all managers are like this though tbh. Just the majority in shit public facing jobs like retail fast food etc
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Arcanine2009
05/12/21 11:18:57 PM
#29:


so are you covered for you two weeks or are they short staffed? you didn't answer that question when others brought it up.

nobody should be shamed for taking week off, but if you're short staffed and your manager can't find someone to cover you or slow down production, I don't know what to say. Depends where you work too.

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PesticideDream
05/12/21 11:20:43 PM
#30:


I've been pretty lucky to work for companies where getting time off has usually been no problem, but they're also usually jobs that have tons of staff. At my current job, you're supposed to fill out when you want your vacation at the beginning of the year, and they approve it if you have the time for it, and after that, it's basically a sealed deal, they have more than enough notice.
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Kloe_Rinz
05/12/21 11:29:12 PM
#31:


PesticideDream posted...
I've been pretty lucky to work for companies where getting time off has usually been no problem, but they're also usually jobs that have tons of staff. At my current job, you're supposed to fill out when you want your vacation at the beginning of the year, and they approve it if you have the time for it, and after that, it's basically a sealed deal, they have more than enough notice.

no allowance for emergencies or unforeseen events?

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TreyFlowers
05/12/21 11:30:42 PM
#32:


BakonBitz posted...
but here you literally have to ask for vacation time off several weeks in advance.

this is literally normal

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Njolk
05/12/21 11:35:14 PM
#33:


Arcanine2009 posted...
so are you covered for you two weeks or are they short staffed? you didn't answer that question when others brought it up.

nobody should be shamed for taking week off, but if you're short staffed and your manager can't find someone to cover you or slow down production, I don't know what to say. Depends where you work too.

I think this is the attitude I don't understand though

So what if I'm leaving them short staffed? Whose problem is that? Certainly not mine, so why does my manager place this blame on me? It's the company's problem to solve not mine. Why does my manager not get upset at the company, then? Instead of being upset at me

But for what it's worth, the time was approved 2 months in advance and they will be MILDLY short staffed

I think this is just a deeply ingrained capitalist thing where money is more valuable than people. "But you'll slow down production!"
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codey
05/13/21 12:22:43 AM
#34:


Just wait until you have to manage a team. When work suffers, it's the managers fault and they're the ones that get replaced. That's not a capitalism thing, that's a universal thing. Managers don't want work to slow down because work slowing reflects poorly on them and leads to them having to find employment elsewhere.

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Darmik
05/13/21 12:27:04 AM
#35:


codey posted...
Just wait until you have to manage a team. When work suffers, it's the managers fault and they're the ones that get replaced. That's not a capitalism thing, that's a universal thing. Managers don't want work to slow down because work slowing reflects poorly on them and leads to them having to find employment elsewhere.

Well yeah. If work suffers if an employee is absent for a couple of weeks that is on the manager and not the employee with the leave. If a manager can't handle a single employee going on paid leave they're a shit manager. If the manager isn't given enough resources to manage it they work for a shit company.

The one person who isn't at fault is the employee on leave.

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NoxObscuras
05/13/21 12:29:05 AM
#36:


Kloe_Rinz posted...
i always give suitable notice for leave and have never been denied once. Do Americans get leave by law? If you work retail in America are you entitled to 4 weeks holiday a year not including sick leave and emergencies?
Not everywhere no. I live in California and, if I recall correctly, it wasn't until 2018 that a law passed, requiring companies with more than 25 employees, to give paid time off and health benefits to full time employees. Before that, both vacation time and benefits were optional.

So some companies do give plenty of paid time off, while others barely give any. Thankfully I'm in the former.

Njolk posted...
I think this is the attitude I don't understand though

I think this is just a deeply ingrained capitalist thing where money is more valuable than people. "But you'll slow down production!"
It absolutely is. Several people on this site in fact, act like it's a sin to take off from work. There was a topic on the PS4 board where a guy said he was going to take 1 day off to play a new game. Several people came in boasting about how they never take off work and that it was foolish to do so.

I say, take your vacation and enjoy yourself.

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Despised
05/13/21 12:31:15 AM
#37:


Njolk posted...
Arcanine2009 posted...
so are you covered for you two weeks or are they short staffed? you didn't answer that question when others brought it up.

nobody should be shamed for taking week off, but if you're short staffed and your manager can't find someone to cover you or slow down production, I don't know what to say. Depends where you work too.

I think this is the attitude I don't understand though

So what if I'm leaving them short staffed? Whose problem is that? Certainly not mine, so why does my manager place this blame on me? It's the company's problem to solve not mine. Why does my manager not get upset at the company, then? Instead of being upset at me

But for what it's worth, the time was approved 2 months in advance and they will be MILDLY short staffed

I think this is just a deeply ingrained capitalist thing where money is more valuable than people. "But you'll slow down production!"


I mean I value people pretty highly, and I'm a pretty nice guy, but as a manager I 100% would not want someone with your attitude on .y team and would actively try to make sure you did not stay on my team, that's just work man
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Kloe_Rinz
05/13/21 12:57:38 AM
#38:


Despised posted...
I mean I value people pretty highly, and I'm a pretty nice guy, but as a manager I 100% would not want someone with your attitude on .y team and would actively try to make sure you did not stay on my team, that's just work man

you dont value people even slightly if you make them reschedule long planned leave
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Despised
05/13/21 1:10:13 AM
#39:


Kloe_Rinz posted...
Despised posted...
I mean I value people pretty highly, and I'm a pretty nice guy, but as a manager I 100% would not want someone with your attitude on .y team and would actively try to make sure you did not stay on my team, that's just work man

you dont value people even slightly if you make them reschedule long planned leave

I didn't say anything about that, my employees take leave when they want if done the proper amount of time in advance, he just clearly doesn't give a shit about his management team or company

To be clear I agree with time off being important, and 2 months I'm advance is PLENTY to get it, TC just sounds like a shitass attitude wise
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Compsognathus
05/13/21 1:10:14 AM
#40:


One of my senior accountants put in a PTO request this week to take off every MWF at 3:30 for the next three weeks, so she can go to her son's high school baseball games.

That is a totally reasonable request. I want her to go to her kids games. Last Friday when she asked if she could leave early to go her son's game I ended up working for 13 hours so she could do so because I want all the people in my department to have loves. But like I needed that request a month ago. I have deadlines and schedules set up. And when she puts in a last minute PTO request I either deny it and look like an asshole or have to put in a bunch of my extra time to make it work while still hitting deadlines. I don't give a flying fuck about the company but this does fuck me over.

If she would have just let me know in advance I could have scheduled accordingly and given her the time off without her taking any PTO. Instead I'm going to have to be a dick and tell her she gets one game a week.

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codey
05/13/21 2:30:41 AM
#41:


Darmik posted...
Well yeah. If work suffers if an employee is absent for a couple of weeks that is on the manager and not the employee with the leave. If a manager can't handle a single employee going on paid leave they're a shit manager. If the manager isn't given enough resources to manage it they work for a shit company.

The one person who isn't at fault is the employee on leave.

Obviously, and I never said that. The topic title asked why managers care when employees take time off, and then TC indicated managers have an allegiance to their company and kept asking why they have this attachment. All I was doing was explaining to him that managers don't have an allegiance to the company, they have an allegiance to staying employed.

He also said this:

Njolk posted...
If I was a manager and they didn't give me enough notice I STILL wouldn't care, this is the company's problem, not mine and certainly not the peon's who wants a vacation

This indicated that he just doesn't understand what it is to be a manager. I worked as an air traffic controller watch supervisor, and I had to turn down several crew member's leave requests during my career. I didn't do it out of some weird allegiance to the Air Force like he keeps implying, but because approving the leave would mean my crew would not have the number of bodies we needed to open the tower up without stealing guys from another crew and shorthanding them instead.

The point is, TC is exhibiting a real lack of understanding of the responsibilities managers actually have, on top of a lack of empathy toward them and their coworkers as they try figure out how to cover for his absence. He's confusing the stress of keeping ones job for a weird allegiance to a company and I think as soon he gets promoted to a management position he's going to find out it's not all about loyalty to the company like he thinks.

To be clear, I think we all need more time off. The forty hour work week is too long, and we need more PTO. I just think TC is incredibly nave and doesn't actually understand what managers do and the pressures they're under.

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Njolk
05/13/21 9:48:41 AM
#42:


Despised posted...
I mean I value people pretty highly, and I'm a pretty nice guy, but as a manager I 100% would not want someone with your attitude on .y team and would actively try to make sure you did not stay on my team, that's just work man

I understand why and agree I have the attitude of "I show up to work for money, you ALSO expect to me pretend to enjoy it?" of higher ups like you

I do good work when I'm there but put work last on my priority list in life. Is that a bad employee? Genuinely curious of your opinion.

After living in other countries I feel like I can see how aggressively capitalist the US is and I can't get behind it
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Flauros
05/13/21 9:52:50 AM
#43:


Its like my place. They keep cutting staff and im doing the work of 3 people now. I asked if i was going to be getting triple the pay and he looked at me like i was high.

So i took 2 weeks off.

Apparently im the only one trained in my area, and along with the already short staff, they got fucking crippled.

Fuck em. If the company hemorrhages literal millions of dollars because they want to cut back, i dont care.

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gatorsPENSbucs
05/13/21 9:55:01 AM
#44:


Because then that manager has to work your shift or spend their day trying to find someone to work that shift.

Its very annoying.

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SauI_Goodman
05/13/21 9:56:13 AM
#45:


I worked for a company where our vacation requests didnt go through our manager but through the scheduling department. I put in for vacation and the scheduling department oked it. When the manager found out he tried to get it reversed cause we were backed up and short handed. We tried to explain to him for a year we needed an extra person but they wouldnt post the job. Oh well not my fault not my problem.

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Balnazarr
05/13/21 10:18:49 AM
#46:


Because, taking vacations is wrong and you're bad for taking them. At my last job taking vacations or extra days off meant you were lazy. I had a lot of PTO but, was told I couldn't use it.
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Arcanine2009
05/13/21 7:09:08 PM
#47:


Njolk posted...
I think this is the attitude I don't understand though

So what if I'm leaving them short staffed? Whose problem is that? Certainly not mine, so why does my manager place this blame on me? It's the company's problem to solve not mine. Why does my manager not get upset at the company, then? Instead of being upset at me

But for what it's worth, the time was approved 2 months in advance and they will be MILDLY short staffed

I think this is just a deeply ingrained capitalist thing where money is more valuable than people. "But you'll slow down production!"
if it's already been approved ahead of time, then it shouldn't technically shouldn't be your problem, and the manager is supposed to manage/change the schedule around.

it's definitely not your blame. You shouldn't be ashamed for taking time off.

I don't know know what kind of work you do and if it's high level or not. usually retail is the worst with this.

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