Current Events > I miss the days when games were apolitical

(+) Yeah! (+)

The good old days of Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII, and Deus Ex :((

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Don't forgot my favorite apolitical game

Call of Duty

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"Why do games even need patches now? They didn't need them back when I was a kid!" - the kid who grew up playing busted ass NES jank that had simpler development cycles

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bump

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Peach was jailed for trying to bring down the bowserarchy

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PLANET'S DYlN' CLOUD

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I miss when Games were Games.

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Thing is, this reads like a joke, but on this website you really can't be sure.

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"They weren't political though, they didn't have forced SJW messages." - some bozo's serious answer

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Bad Dudes was like the most political anti sjw shit ever it was amazing

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I literally saw the next level version of that not too long ago.

PatStaresAt was streaming and talking about some low-key socialist stuff while playing DISCO ELYSIUM and some dude called him out on a comment about bringing politics into his stream of DISCO ELYSIUM.

When called out on the fact that Pat was playing DISCO ELYSIUM, the genius responded by saying that the game "equally shits on all political views".

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Ok, I actually just talked about this with someone yesterday.

Let's take two games, Fallout: New Vegas, widely considered to be one of the best games ever made, and The Last of Us 2, which is not.

Neither are apolitical, but FNV is still held in such high esteem despite this. And I'll use two of my favorite quotes to explain why.

When you enter freeside, a slum full of violence, drug abuse, and dehydration, if you speak to the gun salesman in the area and convince him to show you his full inventory, he'll say, "An armed society, is a polite society." Which is ironic given his living situation. It's a critique on American gun culture, and how guns don't always benefit those around them. Congratulations, you've made a political statement while not pushing an agenda saying, "Guns are bad" outright.

Another example of this is when you must meet the Boomers. The Boomers are people who live on an air force base. And are incredibly xenophobic. If anyone approaches the base, they are blown up with artillery. Once you reach the entrance, you have the chance to ask, "Are you going to confiscate my weapons?" And they say, "Now why would we do that? Personal armament is the cornerstone of building trust in society." Which is ironic given the fact that they murder everyone who gets close to them because they are scared. They're all just a bunch of scared people themselves. It shows that maybe these people shouldn't have access to such weapons. Again, it makes a political statement without pushing an agenda. It says that maybe everyone shouldn't have weapons because people are scared and twitchy. It doesn't outright say, "Guns are bad."

Now take this logic and push it all across the game. It constantly makes political statements across the entire spectrum, without pushing an agenda.

The Last of Us 2 is not so subtle.

(This might get me modded but I've gotta risk it to make my point.)

Let's take Abby. Why is she transgender? What does that offer to the story? Why doesn't Ellie kill her in the end? It makes no sense. Ellie has just murdered tons of people to get to Abby, just to come to the conclusion, "Revenge is bad, I shouldn't kill people for revenge." It's incredibly forced and awful for the story. Now if I may put on my tinfoil hat, it's because killing a transgender person in a video game would've been transphobic. And we're trying to encourage transgender acceptance, it's why we had you play as Abby for the second half of the game.

They're doing more than making a statement, they're pushing an agenda, and the story of the game suffers for it.

Hopefully this will help some people understand the difference between making a political statement in a video game, and pushing an agenda.


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Maybe because those games are somewhat mature about it

^ Abby isn't trans

edit: at post 12

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Ok, I actually just talked about this with someone yesterday.

Let's take two games, Fallout: New Vegas, widely considered to be one of the best games ever made, and The Last of Us 2, which is not.

Neither are apolitical, but FNV is still held in such high esteem despite this. And I'll use two of my favorite quotes to explain why.

When you enter freeside, a slum full of violence, drug abuse, and dehydration, if you speak to the gun salesman in the area and convince him to show you his full inventory, he'll say, "An armed society, is a polite society." Which is ironic given his living situation. It's a critique on American gun culture, and how guns don't always benefit those around them. Congratulations, you've made a political statement while not pushing an agenda saying, "Guns are bad" outright.

Another example of this is when you must meet the Boomers. The Boomers are people who live on an air force base. And are incredibly xenophobic. If anyone approaches the base, they are blown up with artillery. Once you reach the entrance, you have the chance to ask, "Are you going to confiscate my weapons?" And they say, "Now why would we do that? Personal armament is the cornerstone of building trust in society." Which is ironic given the fact that they murder everyone who gets close to them because they are scared. They're all just a bunch of scared people themselves. It shows that maybe these people shouldn't have access to such weapons. Again, it makes a political statement without pushing an agenda. It says that maybe everyone shouldn't have weapons because people are scared and twitchy. It doesn't outright say, "Guns are bad."

Now take this logic and push it all across the game. It constantly makes political statements across the entire spectrum, without pushing an agenda.

The Last of Us 2 is not so subtle.

(This might get me modded but I've gotta risk it to make my point.)

Let's take Abby. Why is she transgender? What does that offer to the story? Why doesn't Ellie kill her in the end? It makes no sense. Ellie has just murdered tons of people to get to Abby, just to come to the conclusion, "Revenge is bad, I shouldn't kill people for revenge." It's incredibly forced and awful for the story. Now if I may put on my tinfoil hat, it's because killing a transgender person in a video game would've been transphobic. And we're trying to encourage transgender acceptance, it's why we had you play as Abby for the second half of the game.

They're doing more than making a statement, they're pushing an agenda, and the story of the game suffers for it.

Hopefully this will help some people understand the difference between making a political statement in a video game, and pushing an agenda.

i cant tell if you're trolling or what but almost all of this is nonsensical. abby is not trans. if she was, it doesnt matter if it offers something to the story or not.

all of fallout's political commentary is extremely on the nose and i cant think of any series that pushes "war fucking sucks" as a message harder than it


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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Ok, I actually just talked about this with someone yesterday.

Let's take two games, Fallout: New Vegas, widely considered to be one of the best games ever made, and The Last of Us 2, which is not.

Neither are apolitical, but FNV is still held in such high esteem despite this. And I'll use two of my favorite quotes to explain why.

When you enter freeside, a slum full of violence, drug abuse, and dehydration, if you speak to the gun salesman in the area and convince him to show you his full inventory, he'll say, "An armed society, is a polite society." Which is ironic given his living situation. It's a critique on American gun culture, and how guns don't always benefit those around them. Congratulations, you've made a political statement while not pushing an agenda saying, "Guns are bad" outright.

Another example of this is when you must meet the Boomers. The Boomers are people who live on an air force base. And are incredibly xenophobic. If anyone approaches the base, they are blown up with artillery. Once you reach the entrance, you have the chance to ask, "Are you going to confiscate my weapons?" And they say, "Now why would we do that? Personal armament is the cornerstone of building trust in society." Which is ironic given the fact that they murder everyone who gets close to them because they are scared. They're all just a bunch of scared people themselves. It shows that maybe these people shouldn't have access to such weapons. Again, it makes a political statement without pushing an agenda. It says that maybe everyone shouldn't have weapons because people are scared and twitchy. It doesn't outright say, "Guns are bad."

Now take this logic and push it all across the game. It constantly makes political statements across the entire spectrum, without pushing an agenda.

The Last of Us 2 is not so subtle.

(This might get me modded but I've gotta risk it to make my point.)

Let's take Abby. Why is she transgender? What does that offer to the story? Why doesn't Ellie kill her in the end? It makes no sense. Ellie has just murdered tons of people to get to Abby, just to come to the conclusion, "Revenge is bad, I shouldn't kill people for revenge." It's incredibly forced and awful for the story. Now if I may put on my tinfoil hat, it's because killing a transgender person in a video game would've been transphobic. And we're trying to encourage transgender acceptance, it's why we had you play as Abby for the second half of the game.

They're doing more than making a statement, they're pushing an agenda, and the story of the game suffers for it.

Hopefully this will help some people understand the difference between making a political statement in a video game, and pushing an agenda.

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Even sonic the hedgehog is political. One man trying to take over the world while enslaving everyone to do his biddings. Come on man...Politics is just life.

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ultimate reaver posted...

all of fallout's political commentary is extremely on the nose and i cant think of any series that pushes "war fucking sucks" as a message harder than it

If you think, "War sucks", is Fallouts only political commentary, I'm not sure we've played the same games. There's so much even in New Vegas alone. How about the issues with the NCR? Just like the game shows, they're too slow to get anything done, and it's because of all of the bureaucracy involved in getting anything done. It shows shortcomings of democracy in a satirical way. I can keep going if you want.

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You don't miss when games were apolitical you miss when you were apolitical or couldn't understand political undertones in games

PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Let's take Abby. Why is she transgender?

Shes not, so this is a pretty shitty post

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FlameTurtle posted...

Shes not, so this is a pretty shitty post

And imagine how much he (thought he) thought about this!

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Pac-Man oh wait

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Let's take Arcade Gannon. Why is he gay?

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

If you think, "War sucks", is Fallouts only political commentary, I'm not sure we've played the same games. There's so much even in New Vegas alone. How about the issues with the NCR? Just like the game shows, they're too slow to get anything done, and it's because of all of the bureaucracy involved in getting anything done. It shows shortcomings of democracy in a satirical way. I can keep going if you want.

how about before we start digging into new vegas' extremely common and not very deep "choose your lesser evil" faction writing, we talk about how half of that novel of a post you wrote earlier was entirely wrong and you knew nothing about the game you were presenting as pushing an agenda

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ultimate reaver posted...

how about before we start digging into new vegas' extremely common and not very deep "choose your lesser evil" faction writing, we talk about how half of that novel of a post you wrote earlier was entirely wrong and you knew nothing about the game you were presenting as pushing an agenda

He won't respond to that because it would require him to admit that he was wrong. Probably some incel shitposter.

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ultimate reaver posted...

how about before we start digging into new vegas' extremely common and not very deep "choose your lesser evil" faction writing, we talk about how half of that novel of a post you wrote earlier was entirely wrong and you knew nothing about the game you were presenting as pushing an agenda

If it's not very deep then we shouldn't have to dig very far now should we? On that note, there is more to the game then just the main factions. You know that right? And there's more political commentary then just them right? Or would you hate to admit that the only politics you understand in games are the ham-fisted ones that are shoved in your face like so many modern video games?

Now, moving on, and ok, here's where I'll take a hit. I refuse to believe that Abby is not Transgender. I know that the game says that she's not, (Probably to take the defense that they're not pushing an agenda), but her face is masculine, and she's built like a god-damned tank. She lacks any feminine features at all. But if Naughty Dog suddenly just Ret-conned it and said, "Nope she is transgenders" be honest, would that actually surprise anyone? At all?

NightRender posted...

Let's take Arcade Gannon. Why is he gay?

Because if you're playing a gay man as a character, it gives you a romance option. On top of that, he's not the antagonist/ protagonist, and some people may play the game without ever realizing he's there. So, not pushing an agenda.

IloveJesus posted...

He won't respond to that because it would require him to admit that he was wrong. Probably some incel shitposter.

Wrong I will respond to anything. Also, yes I am absolutely a shitposter. %100. But I am not an incel.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I refuse to believe that Abby is not Transgender.

Then your opinion is worthless.

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Pong was a metaphor for the political left and right bouncing arguments to each other.

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Abby isn't the transgender, but there is a character that pals along with her who is.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Now, moving on, and ok, here's where I'll take a hit. I refuse to believe that Abby is not Transgender. I know that the game says that she's not, (Probably to take the defense that they're not pushing an agenda), but her face is masculine, and she's built like a god-damned tank. She lacks any feminine features at all. But if Naughty Dog suddenly just Ret-conned it and said, "Nope she is transgenders" be honest, would that actually surprise anyone? At all?

Abby has in-game justification for her physique

and saying someone is trans because they "lack any feminine features" is pretty transphobic, js


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IloveJesus posted...

Then your opinion is worthless.

I disagree. Maybe that part of my opinion is worthless. But what I said about FNV still stands. I suppose the grand point I was trying to make grazed you all anyways, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Using political themes and ideas to make statements about politics is different then using your game to push a political agenda. Games that do the former tend to be better than those that do the ladder because they don't sacrifice anything to makes those comments, and said comments enhance the game.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I refuse to believe that Abby is not Transgender.

Well hate to break it to you bud

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Middle hope posted...

Abby isn't the transgender, but there is a character that pals along with her who is.

See, but I actually like what they did with Lev, because it didn't detract from the story. It was a nice way to put trans representation in video games.

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g0ldie posted...

Abby has in-game justification for her physique

What is it?

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I refuse to believe that Abby is not Transgender.

Welcome to having become the thing you hate. You're now using your own bias to push an agenda (yours), even after having been pointed out that your bias is not factual.

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new vegas isnt complicated whatsoever. it's very simplistic and straightforward in basically everything it says. an enormous portion of it is satire, they literally are trying to make you laugh with most of it and want you to pick up on what they are trying to say. none of that makes it badly written or a poor political commentary at all, but the fact that you think it's somehow really depthful and had to write up entire paragraphs explaining what are basically jokes you could find in a mel brooks movie speaks way louder about your comprehension of this subject than anything else you could say

PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Now, moving on, and ok, here's where I'll take a hit. I refuse to believe that Abby is not Transgender. I know that the game says that she's not, (Probably to take the defense that they're not pushing an agenda), but her face is masculine, and she's built like a god-damned tank. She lacks any feminine features at all. But if Naughty Dog suddenly just Ret-conned it and said, "Nope she is transgenders" be honest, would that actually surprise anyone? At all?

i dont understand why you thought pretending to be... whatever this is was going to make you look better after you got caught lying lol. just take the L and move along


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sutree posted...

What is it?

it's not much, but from a comment she says to Owen, you can tell she's been strength training.

there are other elements that are shown to support that she has access to things to help with her body building (food not seeming to be much of an issue and the gym her facility has), but iirc, that one comment was what let you know that she was trying to get physically stronger.

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CyricZ posted...

Welcome to having become the thing you hate. You're now using your own bias to push an agenda (yours), even after having been pointed out that your bias is not factual.

And, what agenda am I trying to push? That I don't want games to push political agendas at the expense of their story?

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surprised nobody brought up Wolfenstein.

you kill nazis in that game. do i need to say more? lol

Remember: Knowing a character is gay is heavy handed political messaging, but "Fuck the government, fuck religion, fuck war, and fuck you" is just a design choice.

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ultimate reaver posted...

new vegas isnt complicated whatsoever. it's very simplistic and straightforward in basically everything it says. an enormous portion of it is satire, they literally are trying to make you laugh with most of it and want you to pick up on what they are trying to say. none of that makes it badly written or a poor political commentary at all, but the fact that you think it's somehow really depthful and had to write up entire paragraphs explaining what are basically jokes you could find in a mel brooks movie speaks way louder about your comprehension of this subject than anything else you could say

See, but that's exactly my point. New Vegas isn't complicated in it's politics, it makes satire of political things for laughs. You and I are on the same page here, that's what makes New Vegas great. Games shouldn't be these serious things that dissect political issues in the real world, they should point at them and laugh. I don't know why anyone would advocate for anything else.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

And, what agenda am I trying to push?

That Abby is transgender.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I disagree

Doesn't matter.

You keep on talking but nobody cares because you openly talked shit, and then when you were called out on it, you talked more shit.

You have absolutely no credibility whatsoever, so if you really believe in the arguments you are putting forward, the most constructive thing you can do is shut up.

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g0ldie posted...

it's not much, but from a comment she says to Owen, you can tell she's been strength training.

there are other elements that are shown to support that she has access to things to help with her body building (food not seeming to be much of an issue and the gym her facility has), but iirc, that one comment was what let you know that she was trying to get physically stronger.

I'm not sure it is possible for women to get that big without steroids. Maybe it is, I'm not an expert.

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hockeybub89 posted...

Remember: Knowing a character is gay is heavy handed political messaging, but "Fuck the government, fuck religion, fuck war, and fuck you" is just a design choice.

Here's the difference.

Let's take the children of atom in fallout 3. They're some religious kooks that worship a bomb. (Ignoring fallout 4 for now), but overall, they're harmless and just a little nutty. It's a satirical take on organized religion. It's not heavy handed. If they just abducted children and bathed them in the radiation of the bomb for religious reasons and you had to kill them all to save the children, that'd be heavy handed.

And yeah, war is a bad thing. Is anyone in disagreement? Of course that one is heavy handed, it's what the entire series is based around.

Your post has nothing of substance.

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The Trent posted...

Bad Dudes was like the most political anti sjw shit ever it was amazing

Are you a bad enough dude to be The Trent?

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

See, but that's exactly my point. New Vegas isn't complicated in it's politics, it makes satire of political things for laughs. You and I are on the same page here, that's what makes New Vegas great. Games shouldn't be these serious things that dissect political issues in the real world, they should point at them and laugh. I don't know why anyone would advocate for anything else.

Do you hate when movies, shows, books, and music do more than "point and laugh" at issues in the real world? Why shouldn't a video game be just as "serious"?

It's bullshit anyway because 99.9% of the time, the only "political issue" anyone is mad about is when a video game includes LGBT characters without justifying them or some shit. That's heavy handed, but Bioshock and Metal Gear Solid are awesome. It's like a CCR fan complaining about how political music has gotten.

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CyricZ posted...

That Abby is transgender.

But everyone already knows that she's not right? So, no, that's not what I'm trying to push. It was an example of what I actually want, which is for games and their stories to not be dictated by politics.

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So political takes only work if they're satirical? If there's any seriousness or weight to them in the narrative, then it's too much?

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