Board 8 > Hearthstone Topic - Buffs, Nerfs, and Quilboars! Oh My!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ready for these Paladin buffs LETS GO

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wag

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Something happened, and now Im killing it with Empty Deck Warlock

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i missed a chance at getting the mankirk kill achievement because i forgot I had 3 of them in my deck with 3 cards left and could have used my alex a turn earlier as that plus the mankirk was exact lethal. TBF the warlock could have healed if i played the alex first. But i think i would have had it.

GANON1025 posted...

Something happened, and now Im killing it with Empty Deck Warlock

Nice, it finally clicked or do you just feel like you're getting better luck/matchups?

And which list did you settle on?

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Oh, I've been meaning to ask this since it came out and I'm surprised nobody ever brought it up but...

Would anyone be down for a 8 player Battlegrounds session of sorts? I know Quillboars kinda hurt the game right now so maybe after nerfs but....!

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I'd be game. I certainly wouldn't be winning third in some major tournament, though.

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Priest v Priest but my opponent is playing C'thun against my Menagerie so I'm kind of screwed as long as he plays smart. We're each around halfway through our deck and every turn is pretty much both of us sitting on a full hand and trying to figure out which card to sacrifice to the void that is the board, as is only natural in the Priest v Priest match. Then he decided to play Illucia, getting to drop my Pearltusk and play a Gift of Luminance on it. Not a huge loss by any means.

This guy is sitting on two discounted copies of Palm Reading. He clearly knows there's two C'thun spells left in his deck since he's played two and neither of the other is currently in his hand, and after I inevitably pull one and play it he concedes. I have no idea what he expected to get out of my hand that made that risk worth it but I'm shocked he made that play. Grabbed defeat from the jaws of what was likely a 95%+ chance of victory at that point.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Nice, it finally clicked or do you just feel like you're getting better luck/matchups?

And which list did you settle on?

A little bit of both I think! I'm still using the same deck I had before, probably the one you showed me come to think of it.

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Just spent most of today making decks to finally beat the Lich King with all 9 classes. There weren't many guides so it was fun trying to build decks instead of just copying codes off the internet like I normally do.

I kept it Standard for everything except Rogue and Mage. Rogue needed Flik to deal with the 2/6 souls and Mage was basically impossible without the kabal lackey, copy secret, and platebreaker.

I contemplated making a guide on Reddit after I was done but I decided it was too much effort.

If anyone needs any help with that still though let me know and I can assist.

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Oh the 5th nerf is probably Hysteria now that I think about it, if they go for a proactive nerf approach since its like a better Brawl.

Buffs... Feel like Shaman and Demon Hunter will get the bulk of it, maybe some Warlock/Druid just to get people to play the new archetypes some more instead of the old ones. Hero Power Mage might get something if they nerf flow. Xaneth is a good one, just to give Priest a more proactive win condition. And theres the old gods.

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I just had a rogue game where I played alex 4 times, and it would have been 5 if the warlock didn't concede.

I wasn't able to get into a good groove today with really anything. Hopefully the nerfs come tomorrow and freshen things up a little.

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Im getting a LOT of priests now and it's very annoying. Not because I'm losing. Honestly, secret rogue is just very strong against priest but the matches take so long.

N'zoth to 9 and Hysteria to 4 is a terrible exchange for my Priest deck.

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Quilboar still gonna be op

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Man remember when Shieldmaiden was a control warrior staple

So much has changed since GvG

Spring water is probably still run in spell mage. First Day might be more of a refill card now, may start seeing aggro decks run Squires with Protectors instead but idk. I dont think Crabrider sees much aside from maybe Warrior just because there arent many cheap rush cards?

Nzoth at 9 basically means you can pair it with Broom right? Xaneth is actually pretty good and could give priest some tempo after corrupting (0 mana Insights for example). I dont think the Shaman and Warlock buffs really fix what was wrong with either class.


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N'Zoth at 9 is good news for my awful Plaguemaw Taunt Druid deck. Maybe it goes from 30% to 35% winrate now.

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N'zoth at 9 works with Broom if you can play five minions types or less to rez, but if you're like me and playing more types to make N'zoth more consistent, or more likely playing Amalgam, I feel like you're going to end up with a full board often enough that Broom can't be played.

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Chaeix posted...

Quilboar still gonna be op

I don't know. A lot of the cards were gutted. They didn't mess with three of the four minions at 5+, which means the late game potential is still there, but it's going to be much riskier to try to power level with a few quillboars on board.

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azuarc posted...

I don't know. A lot of the cards were gutted. They didn't mess with three of the four minions at 5+, which means the late game potential is still there, but it's going to be much riskier to try to power level with a few quillboars on board.

The scaling on a lot of them is still kind of insane though, they mostly hit base stats except for bonker

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oh man those elemental buffs, heck yeah. I might play around with unbound now. And lilypad lurker already seemed super good.
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Nerfs are basically as expected.

Mankirk and Crabrider as soon as we knew it was two neutrals and one of them was a murloc.

First day of School from Paladin--admitedly I wasn't expecting the way in which it was nerfed (making 3 1-drops now). Nerf is still gigantic, though, cause you can't FDoS on 1 into Hand of A'dal on 2. Gets cut from aggro decks now; maybe still run in Librams.

Something from mage (could have been incanter's flow, but Refreshing Spring Water works too).

Hysteria was kind-of expected too. Often a full board clear for 3, which...is pretty nutty. Sometimes cleared boards that mass hysteria could not clear, and that's a wild-viable 5 mana clear.

Buffs...the way they teased these they sounded really spicy, and these...mostly aren't actually that spicy.

Xanesh: should have been printed that way, but happy to see the fix.
Razorboar: a bit surprising--deathrattle DH is a solid deck that only really struggles with paladin. Supposedly this is one of its worse performing cards, though.
Unbound Elemental: Yawn. Like...sure, maybe Elemental Shaman runs it now, but it's pretty vanilla.
Tidal Surge: OK, this is pretty spicy, cause the card as an individual card is fine, like one of the highest drawn winrates in control shaman. Maybe this pushes other shaman archetypes to run it, though?
Lilypad Lurker: I expected them to buff it to 4 mana. This...is not quite as big of a buff, but still a decent buff. Medium amounts of spice here.
Fiendish Circle: Yawn
Deck of Chaos: I don't want this card to be playable, cause like...it'll turn into one of those "you win when you draw deck of chaos" decks. Luckily, I don't think much has changed.
Whirling Combatant: Didn't see this one coming. Like...Ravaging Ghoul still makes it into wild Odd Warrior lists. Whirling Combatant is now 1 more mana for 3 more health and a frenzy to whirlwind again? Wow. Yeah, ok I'll give this a little bit of spice level.
Shieldmaiden: Well, shield block went to wild and got replaced by shieldmaiden. Turns out Shieldmaiden is a lot weaker than shield block, so control warrior ceased to exist. Maybe it'll exist now, though. Obviously this makes shieldmaiden very good.
NZoth, God of the Deep: So...a lot of the cards you would want to bring back with N'Zoth cost 10, like darkmoon rabbit and scrapyard colossus. This is a weird choice, not sure what the buff actually changes, other than the fact that you can N'Zoth + Broomstick on the same turn I guess.

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Chaeix posted...

The scaling on a lot of them is still kind of insane though, they mostly hit base stats except for bonker

But you have to not get your ass whooped in turns 1-9. Nomi's scaling is insane, too.

While I agree with you that I think they're still going to be the ideal endgame, I think that getting going with them is going to be slowed down enough by a need to not die that other builds can compete.

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I didn't even realize at first, N'zoth doesn't corrupt clowns any longer.

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I'm getting tired of the bug where the game tells you that you're in standard but you're actually in casual.

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this is what winning like every bet gets you.

Non-golden Maexxna? Pff.

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I just suffered through an hour of trying out Zoo Warlock so that you guys don't have to.

Verdict: it sucks but maybe if they get better ways to buff minions it'll be okay. You can summon tons of tokens but the best you can do is buff them +1/1.

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Kazakus? Or do you have a 4 drop committed?

Because that's a +2/+2 to board on a 5/5 that might also have stealth or divine shield or rush

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No 4 drops in my list actually but even +2/2 wouldn't be enough I think. There's just too many board clears and rush minions for zoo or token warlock to work right now. +2/2 for 5 mana isn't exactly game winning when you're turning 1/1s into 3/3s.

I will admit I give up on decks pretty easily if they're not working after about 10 games so maybe I could find more success. I did win a few games pretty convincingly but all of the meta decks right now are just better. Maybe if Rogue starts dominating the meta you could use this deck to counter it but that's about it.

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i learned that in wild HAND BUFF PALADIN is apparently a top tier deck and its like really weird considering its not a deck that saw a lot of play when it existed in standard.

KokoroAkechi posted...

i learned that in wild HAND BUFF PALADIN is apparently a top tier deck and its like really weird considering its not a deck that saw a lot of play when it existed in standard.

Oh yeah, variations of handbuff have been good for a while.

Going back a few years, people played mech paladin and put in handbuff cards (because magnetic meant the handbuffs could be applied directly to face).

Meanwhile, people started experimenting with a no-mech handbuff but it wasn't very popular yet.

Around the time when Crabrider came out, handbuff without mechs was just consensus the stronger variation. And then the newest set turbocharged it, thanks to adding Blademaster Samuro.

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Just lost a game to a control Warrior who played Magtheridon + bladestorm on turn 7. The rest of his deck was basically just removal.

It was pretty embarrassing to lose to honestly.

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Hm how could each class run nzoth

Demon Hunter: Only Inquisitor as a demon, but you get a third one in the deck this way. Can run the deathrattle package since a lot of them have tribal tags

Druid: they have the ramp. They have Guardian Animals, they can run big taunts late like the elementals. Satyr is a demon. Maybe?

Hunter: Rhino or Krush as the Beast, Felmaw as the demon. Tonk as the mech. Theres some value here but why play a late game Hunter

Mage: Solarian Prime or a 8/8 Elemental

Pally: Gryphon, the 6 mana elemental.

Priest: The 6 mana elemental is good. Most of the big dragons are also good. Homunculous is ok but not quite there. Some stuff here

Rogue: ...If Jandice generates you good 5s?

Shaman: Al Akir and Lurker Below I guess? Murlocs kinda suck though

Warlock: You get a 8/8 Tick and the new quill boar in standard decks. Theres some big demons or deck of chaos shenanigans for meme decks if you want too

Warrior: This actually gives some pretty good board control since they have a lot of rush and refill, could fit in rush Warrior but they actually have good options against control.

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Got to 6000 rating. Have proceeded to lose every game since painfully. At least 6k appears to be a floor, which I didn't know existed in battlegrounds.

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LiquidOshawott posted...

Druid: they have the ramp. They have Guardian Animals, they can run big taunts late like the elementals. Satyr is a demon. Maybe?

Plaguemaw is a Quillboar now so if you bring him back with N'Zoth and broom you could trade your whole board and fill it up again in the same turn.

But it comes so late I feel like it's just guaranteed to get board cleared by the actual control decks.

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Someone posted a Control Paladin on reddit and holy shit I just beat a C'thun Warrior with his list:

# Class: Paladin
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Gryphon
#
# 2x (1) Aldor Attendant
# 2x (1) Animated Broomstick
# 2x (1) First Day of School
# 2x (1) Knight of Anointment
# 2x (2) Hand of A'dal
# 1x (2) Murgur Murgurgle
# 2x (2) Redscale Dragontamer
# 2x (2) Snack Run
# 2x (3) Underlight Angling Rod
# 2x (3) Venomous Scorpid
# 1x (4) Kazakus, Golem Shaper
# 2x (5) Aldor Truthseeker
# 1x (5) Ogremancer
# 2x (6) Hammer of the Naaru
# 1x (7) Lady Liadrin
# 1x (9) Alexstrasza the Life-Binder
# 2x (9) Libram of Hope
# 1x (9) Ysera the Dreamer
#
AAECAZ8FBvy4A4TBA47UA/zoA7CKBLSKBAz7uAP9uA

PquQPsuQPKwQOVzQOezQOF3gP53gP63gOW6APM6wMA

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So many new decks I'm seeing today: C'Thun Warrior, Minion Spell Mage (using Aegwynn and playing a minion with spell power every turn), and Clown Priest.

Meanwhile I STILL can't find a deck that's actually working for me right now.

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That Mask of C'thun couldn't have gone much worse for him, considering he had no way of getting past the Lightshower after the fact.

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After a full day of Hearthstone I started at Diamond 10, 2 stars, and ended at Diamond 10, 1 star.

My brother told me a few weeks ago that he doesn't think I actually enjoy Hearthstone, just winning. I'm beginning to think he might be right!

But how do you find fun when you're losing all day? It doesn't make any sense to me.

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skullbone posted...

Plaguemaw is a Quillboar now so if you bring him back with N'Zoth and broom you could trade your whole board and fill it up again in the same turn.

But it comes so late I feel like it's just guaranteed to get board cleared by the actual control decks.

Ramp actually does pretty great against control because by turn 6 you usually have like 9 or 10 mana

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Oh someone apparently cheated in HS grandmasters

So from what I understand, the guy no showed so his opponent, a teammate, can dodge relegation. But he was online at the time? A little suspicious

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Also it seems like the meta kinda stayed the same

I really did think Paladin was strong enough to need two nerfs, Conviction felt like more the problem just because a 1 mana bloodlust or savage roar esque effect just felt too good, especially since you can combo it with Samuro now to regain board. Apparently Crabrider is still good enough? I guess its a board clear tool that can possibly leave a big body if you buff it, but I tried Neophytes instead and they seem ok.

Shaman needed card draw, but if they arent giving it might be time to buff rockbiter again idk

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LiquidOshawott posted...

Oh someone apparently cheated in HS grandmasters

So from what I understand, the guy no showed so his opponent, a teammate, can dodge relegation. But he was online at the time? A little suspicious

Why not just play poorly?

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I was only a couple cards off from making a DR Demom Hunter so i tried to deck on ladder. (I am missing the legendary that makes my minions immune and I'm not crafting it.)

It didn't go very well.

LiquidOshawott posted...

I really did think Paladin was strong enough to need two nerfs

Well, based on the data we're getting in so far, seems like part of the problem is that the first day of school nerf might not have made the card weaker?

Still included in 95% of paladin decks.

Hard to get drawn winrates isolated from the old FDoS on HSReplay, but we can get played winrates post patch. Now, yes, played winrates are a dangerous metric, cause they overvalue finisher cards like Alextraza and sometimes rarely played cards get overvalued cause they were played in one variant of a deck that had higher winrates than other decks. For example, Shadow Hunter Vol'jin is in the top 5 played winrate Paladin cards, but...that's from playing it in a goofy combo deck when things go right, and it's only in 7% of Paladin decks. But none of these caveats apply to First Day; it's not a finisher and it's played in every paladin deck. And despite all that it's still top 10 post-nerf for played winrates among paladin.

So...yeah, First Day might not actually be weaker. (Which means it's probably actually stronger in more midrange decks like Libram Paladin). Combine that with Crabrider not being in every Paladin deck pre-nerf (and not actually getting nerfed that hard so a lot of people still run it) and yeah...Paladin's sayed pretty constant.

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