Poll of the Day > Depressing that 6/10 of the most popular board topics are gacha games

(+) Yeah! (+)

Will gaming ever recover from gambling or is this just the new norm forever? I'm hoping the boards are just more active because people are addicted to the games (which is sad but understandable, that's how gambling mechanics are designed - to be addictive). I hope someday gaming leaves gambling behind but I doubt it because why not make as much money as possible for very little effort?

Eh, it doesn't bother me much since there are still a bunch of fun games (without those gambling mechanics) coming out for me to enjoy.

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lazycomplife posted...

Will gaming ever recover from gambling or is this just the new norm forever?

It's usually easier to fall than it is to recover, and with the amount of money involved it seems like publishers have a vested interest to do everything in their power to keep this train running. Even if various countries start openly banning gambling mechanics in games.
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Who'd guess that games with a constant stream of content would generate a constant stream of discussion.

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y'all didn't want to buy good games when you had a chance.

Where are you getting these numbers?

People like what they like

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Who even uses the front page?

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https://imgur.com/uKNAiVj

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame

Where are you saying they're gotcha games?

shadowsword87 posted...

https://imgur.com/uKNAiVj

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame

Where are you saying they're gotcha games?

He's talking about the "Popular Board Topics" section on the front page of this site, which is pretty much just a ranking of the 10 most active topics at the moment.

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Mead posted...

People like what they like

But DO they like what they like? Or are they just addicted to what was deliberately made addictive?

I played Destiny for months before I realized I didn't actually enjoy it, and had just gotten locked into its addiction loop. Same sort of goes for GTA Online once I started grinding for money to buy yachts and Tron bikes. I was able to pull myself out of both games, but plenty of people get trapped either through lack of self-awareness or lack of willpower. It's what the people who make those sorts of games explicitly depend on and design around (it's the same model subscription MMOs used to use to keep people playing - and paying).

A lot of people need help getting off drugs or alcohol (if they even can), and it's not really all that different. Gambling addiction (whether in video games or just involving casinos/bookies/etc) isn't directly chemically addictive, but from a biochemistry perspective you're still getting addicted to the rush of adrenaline, endorphins, and other neurotransmitters. You can still get that thrill (and suffer withdrawal from it if you ever stop) even if the act itself makes you completely miserable.
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shadowsword87 posted...

Where are you saying they're gotcha games?

Not gotcha games, gacha games:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

But DO they like what they like? Or are they just addicted to what was deliberately made addictive?

I played Destiny for months before I realized I didn't actually enjoy it, and had just gotten locked into its addiction loop. Same sort of goes for GTA Online once I started grinding for money to buy yachts and Tron bikes. I was able to pull myself out of both games, but plenty of people get trapped either through lack of self-awareness or lack of willpower. It's what the people who make those sorts of games explicitly depend on and design around (it's the same model subscription MMOs used to use to keep people playing - and paying).

A lot of people need help getting off drugs or alcohol (if they even can), and it's not really all that different. Gambling addiction (whether in video games or just involving casinos/bookies/etc) isn't directly chemically addictive, but from a biochemistry perspective you're still getting addicted to the rush of adrenaline, endorphins, and other neurotransmitters. You can still get that thrill (and suffer withdrawal from it if you ever stop) even if the act itself makes you completely miserable.

People like what they like


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Mead posted...

People like what they like

But do they actually like?
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

But do they actually like?

some of them

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I guess that's just what happens when you put slot machines inside of Skinner boxes

lazycomplife posted...

I guess that's just what happens when you put slot machines inside of Skinner boxes

back in my day we called it doin the hibbidy jibbidy

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lazycomplife posted...

I guess that's just what happens when you put slot machines inside of Skinner boxes

The future of the human race will be when we eventually figure out a way to hardwire directly into the pleasure center of the brain, and tie it directly to a remote control with a single button to trigger it.

It will also be the end of the human race, as we spend the rest of our time just constantly pushing the button until we die.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

The future of the human race will be when we eventually figure out a way to hardwire directly into the pleasure center of the brain, and tie it directly to a remote control with a single button to trigger it.

It will also be the end of the human race, as we spend the rest of our time just constantly pushing the button until we die.

It's already getting that way: work from home, buy food from phone, swipe right for sex and get your stimmy checks via direct deposit. We already are approaching the wall-e future.

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DragonClaw01 posted...

It's already getting that way: work from home, buy food from phone, swipe right for sex and get your stimmy checks via direct deposit. We already are approaching the wall-e future.

r/im14andthisisdeep

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Mead posted...

r/im14andthisisdeep

imagine sitting on the internet and talking about how phones are the devil lmao

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Kanatteru posted...

imagine sitting on the internet and talking about how phones are the devil lmao

If phones are the devil, then we all are going to hell, but it doesn't mean I can't be critical on my way to the abyss

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gacha games are pretty much designed to be mini mmos these days with a lot more frequent smaller events, discussion is definitely gonna be pretty high

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lazycomplife posted...

Will gaming ever recover from gambling or is this just the new norm forever? I'm hoping the boards are just more active because people are addicted to the games (which is sad but understandable, that's how gambling mechanics are designed - to be addictive). I hope someday gaming leaves gambling behind but I doubt it because why not make as much money as possible for very little effort?

Many people dont even spend money on Gacha games. Lots of them (the good ones) are pretty easy to play without spending a dime, which is nice...
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LinkPizza posted...

Many people dont even spend money on Gacha games. Lots of them (the good ones) are pretty easy to play without spending a dime, which is nice...

Still doesn't change the fact that the games are negatively impacted by gacha mechanics. The grind is usually ramped up to an almost unbearable amount compared to a non-gacha game, and this is an intentional design decision to influence people to spend money. Gacha games are also predatory due to FOMO and you can spend weeks grinding and still not get the character you want because of the gambling nature of the game. This is also intentional to try to get people to spend money. The games are made worse by the predatory mechanics.

lazycomplife posted...

Still doesn't change the fact that the games are negatively impacted by gacha mechanics.

the game generally only exists to begin with because of gacha mechanics though. genshin definitely wouldn't exist if they didn't have that dirty gacha money to count on

lazycomplife posted...

The grind is usually ramped up to an almost unbearable amount compared to a non-gacha game

depends entirely on the game, but ones that limit the amount you can play daily (so most of them) are definitely less of a time sink than most mmos. which is what you should be comparing them to, because both are designed to be relatively endless experiences

lazycomplife posted...

nd you can spend weeks grinding and still not get the character you want because of the gambling nature of the game

only bad gacha games (like fgo heh) don't have spark mechanics that let you guarantee specific characters a couple times a year if you have any self control whatsoever

all that being said, they do still obviously rely on people acting irrationally because of gambling addiction, but if you legit have no money (like me looooool) you can strongarm a lot of enjoyment out of them without spending a penny. some like princess connect are even downright generous with their rates and mechanics (you get a shitton of rolls for free, you can farm any nonlimited character older than like 2-3 months old, there's a spark mechanic in addition to all those rolls so you can pretty much get anyone you really want, almost all of your power is separated from the gacha, and limited stamina means the most amount of time you spend per day is like five minutes maybe)

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lazycomplife posted...

Still doesn't change the fact that the games are negatively impacted by gacha mechanics. The grind is usually ramped up to an almost unbearable amount compared to a non-gacha game, and this is an intentional design decision to influence people to spend money. Gacha games are also predatory due to FOMO and you can spend weeks grinding and still not get the character you want because of the gambling nature of the game. This is also intentional to try to get people to spend money. The games are made worse by the predatory mechanics.

They arent, though. They are usually just a part of the game. And kind of make it fun. Like when you get really good characters. The fun is getting new characters and trying them out. Like when I was playing a few of them with friends and we all had a bunch of different characters. Which meant we all had to play different. It was kind of fun just learning how to use each character. You may not like gacha mechanics, but some people are fine with them. It made the game more fun for me and some others. And some, like you, dont like them. That just means the game arent for you... The grind depends on the game. One game, I can max out a characters level as soon as I get them. And sometimes, I can max the skill tree out (or close enough). It can take longer for other things like weapons, though. But the grind depends on which game it is. As for FOMO, that depends, too. I havent really seen much of it here when talking on the gacha game board, or on CE... Many people know that a lot of the characters end up coming back with the exception of a few. And not everyone is going to get the character. Sometimes, you just have to get lucky. But many games have nearly everyone come back at some point. Even when they werent planning on it... That being said, many games also have pity rates. Some rates are higher than others, and work differently than others, but many have them. Like with Dragalia Lost, every time you dont get a 5 (Star) character, you rate to get one goes up. Many also have a guaranteed chance when you do a certain number of pulls... Many will say to just do well in the event. Or just to play it at all... And again, it can make some spend money, buy not all will. Many are easily played and won without money. Some make it so that even spending money wont really get you very far, anyway. Or make it so you dont want to spend money...
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I played Dragalia Lost every day for almost a year.

They give you a massive amount of content with no ads, but at a certain point, it becomes nearly impossible to level up your characters any further because you need so many items or whatever currency.

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Metalsonic66 posted...

I played Dragalia Lost every day for almost a year.

They give you a massive amount of content with no ads, but at a certain point, it becomes nearly impossible to level up your characters any further because you need so many items or whatever currency.

Yeah. I played everyday for a couple years myself. I never really had a problem until they got spirals. Even then, it was a matter of choosing who I used pretty often out of the characters that had them...
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Gotta say I didn't expect all these people to jump in like "gambling in games is good actually" lmao. Gaming is doomed.

LinkPizza posted...

spirals

Oof yeah

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Metalsonic66 posted...

Oof yeah

Yeah. Haha. Some of those were pretty hard. I heard it was to help some characters catch up to the OP ones...

lazycomplife posted...

Gotta say I didn't expect all these people to jump in like "gambling in games is good actually" lmao. Gaming is doomed.

I mean, some people really love gambling. For me, its not really that gambling is good. Rather the game is still fun either way... And there are a bunch of fun characters to try. And they are always adding more...
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lazycomplife posted...

Gotta say I didn't expect all these people to jump in like "gambling in games is good actually" lmao. Gaming is doomed.

The problem is you only see the gambling, you don't see the games at all. You're less of a gamer than gacha players.

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LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. Haha. Some of those were pretty hard. I heard it was to help some characters catch up to the OP ones...

Yeah I guess I tried to have a good solid team in every element category but it meant my resources were split among 20 different characters, and if I got a new character or new dragon or whatever that I really liked, I would also spend lots of resources trying to level THEM up too.

I guess what finally made me drop it is when I realized how little time I was spending actually playing lol. I suppose micromanagement is a form of gameplay too

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lazycomplife posted...

Gotta say I didn't expect all these people to jump in like "gambling in games is good actually" lmao. Gaming is doomed.

it's more like a necessary evil for f2p games at this point

it can easily be handled horribly, but it can also be handled nonoffensively

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Veedrock- posted...

The problem is you only see the gambling, you don't see the games at all.

They're not distinct entities.

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agesboy posted...

it's more like a necessary evil for f2p games at this point

Really, games have been relying on randomized rewards to artificially lengthen them for decades. Directly monetizing that is a relatively new phenomenon, and has absolutely been horrifically abused to exploit people that are prone to gambling addiction, but using randomization to allow people to perform the same gameplay actions and have different experiences is about as old as dice. Heck, that's the entire basis for roguelikes as a genre, as well as the driving force behind procedural generation as a core mechanic in games.

Ultimately, the bottom line is that there is fun to be had in seeing what you get from a random system. Sometimes, that's used in place of putting effort into designing something more deeply engaging, and quite often these days it gets used to manipulate money out of players, but it's not a bad thing, fundamentally.

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It all calls back to nature's first random loot generator, pregnancy

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Blightzkrieg posted...

It all calls back to nature's first random loot generator, pregnancy

Come one let it be something good this time. . .dammit more basic trash!

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Blightzkrieg posted...

It all calls back to nature's first random loot generator, pregnancy

Most animals experience the random loot of trying to find food before they experience pregnancy. I could actually believe that that's why random interval reward patterns are so good for reinforcing behaviour: they mirror the experience of trying to find food even though there's a solid chance one won't. If that failure was enough to eliminate the motivation from occasional success, animals wouldn't bother trying to hunt/forage and they'd just starve to death, so we evolved to be disproportionately motivated by random success (and then didn't evolve out of it because it's pretty selectively neutral).

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