Poll of the Day > Well, Returnal's lack of a save function screwed my longest run.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I beat the first boss, made it a ways into the second biome and then needed to start dinner for the family and I put the PS5 into rest mode to come back to the run later. Got home after work yesterday and first thing I saw was that an update was automatically installed overnight.

Back to the beginning on a new run. That is my one gripe with the game so far. I do feel like there are enough people making enough noise that it will get the ability to save eventually, but it's still crazy that it didn't have it from the start.

I thought killing bosses was one of the things that gets saved between runs? Like you retain the keys to the next biome, no?

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I haven't played it yet, just watched some gameplay

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Yeah, I retained the key to get to the next biome, but I didn't get to see how far I'd go on that particular run which I was doing pretty damn well on. I still had a respawn artifact too which was disappointing.

Isn't Returnal marketed as a roguelike?

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That sounds more like an issue with the system forcing a restart than the game lacking a save feature. Sure, a save feature would have prevented the issue, but so would offering a confirmation menu and the option to not turn your system off in the middle of playing a game. The Switch does this: if you've got a game suspended, it tells you there's a system/software update waiting when you try to start it up, but it gives you the option to go back to the game instead of losing any unsaved progress.

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It is, but many modern roguelikes have the ability to stop mid run and return later. Hades and Dead Cells to name two. To be fair they are the only two I've played.

hockey7318 posted...

It is, but many modern roguelikes have the ability to stop mid run and return later. Hades and Dead Cells to name two. To be fair they are the only two I've played.

One Step From Eden also offers the option.

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I think this is just confirming that this is not a game for me. I sometimes only have like 30 minutes to play on a game and unfortunately the rest mode on the PS5 is unreliable. I will wait for a decent sale at least.

Copying/pasting this since I JUST wrote this elsewhere lol.

Smiffwilm posted...

I've heard about the whole no save thing for this game and had a weird idea regarding it when people bring up that they should add a quick save feature that deletes itself once you load it:

Timer-based saving/loading. What I mean by that is, you can save whenever you want. However, once you do, you cannot save again until, for example purposes, let's say 1 hour. This applies to loading too. You can load your save whenever, but once you load it once, the game won't let you until, again lets just say 1 hour (idk if my example times are too harsh or too lenient lol.)

This way, players still feel pressure and won't lose significant progress just because they have a crash/power outage or have a life outside of gaming, but also makes it to where they can't simply save-scum to win. It'd probably have to be tied to the system-save somehow for the timers.

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hockey7318 posted...

It is, but many modern roguelikes have the ability to stop mid run and return later. Hades and Dead Cells to name two. To be fair they are the only two I've played.

Yeah, I don't really have much experience with roguelikes.

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Smiffwilm posted...

Copying/pasting this since I JUST wrote this elsewhere lol.

Smiffwilm posted...

Honestly, as much as preventing save-scumming is always a big thing people bring up in instances like this, I don't see why it's even necessary. It's a single-player game, so it's not like having an advantage over other players is meaningful, and save-scumming is always such a disruptive way to play games that anyone actually willing to entertain the possibility of doing it has already broken their immersion to such an extent that having the option isn't going to hurt it any further. Those who don't want to, don't have to.

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hockey7318 posted...

It is, but many modern roguelikes have the ability to stop mid run and return later. Hades and Dead Cells to name two. To be fair they are the only two I've played.

Just chiming in that 20XX also offers mid run saves

ps5's lack of games continues
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hockey7318 posted...

It is, but many modern roguelikes have the ability to stop mid run and return later. Hades and Dead Cells to name two. To be fair they are the only two I've played.

adjl posted...

One Step From Eden also offers the option.

SkynyrdRocker posted...

Just chiming in that 20XX also offers mid run saves

Undermine saves with every new floor...
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Binding of Isaac saves every floor as well. It is very common to have that convenience feature and it's ridiculous that some games don't have it; this is not a matter of challenge. Whether or not you're able to stay glued to your system for a whole run has nothing to do with how good you are at a game. It's a matter of showing the players respect over the fact that they have lives outside of the game.

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Wait its a roguelike and it doesnt even at least have quicksave?

But no Roguelikes arent supposed to have checkpoints you can retry them from, its sort of the whole point of it (though you might have permanent unlocks to make the next run easier). Though hearing about this respawn artifact, there are similar things such the touchstones in Dont Starve.

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there is so much debate about what is or isnt a roguelike

most of the ones I have played have the option to save or at least have a checkpoint autosave function in place

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deoxxys posted...

Wait its a roguelike and it doesnt even at least have quicksave?

But no Roguelikes arent supposed to have checkpoints you can retry them from, its sort of the whole point of it (though you might have permanent unlocks to make the next run easier). Though hearing about this respawn artifact, there are similar things such the touchstones in Dont Starve.

Yeah, most people aren't asking for checkpoints because that would completely negate the point of the game. I just want to be able to continue my run when I have to take a break because I can only get a half hour in between getting home from work and my daughter getting off the school bus. Or you know, the system autoupdates and I have to restart the game the next time I play.

adjl posted...

Sure, a save feature would have prevented the issue, but so would offering a confirmation menu and the option to not turn your system off in the middle of playing a game.

The PS4 allows you to keep playing without updating. It just doesn't allow you to use network features (ie, play online) unless you're fully updated after an update gets released.

I assume the PS5 probably works the same way.



adjl posted...

Roguelikes can have mid-run save features. You just have to lose progress when you die to qualify as a roguelike, not just when you turn the game off.

More importantly, any single-player/offline game not having a save feature (or an active pause) in 2021 is kind of BS.

When the average age of the people playing video games is mid-30s (and only about 30% are under 18), gaming is very much an adult hobby. And adults often have things called "lives" and "responsibilities", and occasionally have to stop to answer a phone, cook dinner, or keep a small child from crawling into danger. These sorts of things often happen without warning, and are rarely considerate enough to wait until you're at a quiet part of the game where you can just sort of stand in a corner safely.

Most adults don't actually have 8-10 hours straight to play any game without having to pause or save at least once. One friend of mine basically has about 1 hour every week (early Saturday mornings around 10am) to play, and any game that doesn't cater to that sort of schedule is a game he'll never, ever play. 80+ hour RPGs with complex narrative arcs are pretty much incomprehensible to him, because by the time he gets to a plot-point he's more or less forgotten most of the stuff that came before. Between that and the fact that it would probably take him 2 years to realistically beat one, he won't even play them.

For a lot of adults, playing a game for hours and then having all of your progress reset because you had to watch your kids or go to work means you will never play that game again. Because fuck that game.
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Gaawa_chan posted...

It is very common to have that convenience feature and it's ridiculous that some games don't have it; this is not a matter of challenge. Whether or not you're able to stay glued to your system for a whole run has nothing to do with how good you are at a game. It's a matter of showing the players respect over the fact that they have lives outside of the game.

See also: Pausing in Dark Souls. The number of people that treat the lack of a pause feature as a badge of honour or an indication that the game is truly challenging is utterly ridiculous. I've literally seen people try to claim that players deserve to lose their progress on a boss if they answer the phone or the doorbell because they aren't "dedicated enough."

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