Board 8 > MCU General 2: Hubcaptain America, Zemo and The Thunderbolts

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mr Lasastryke posted...

also, i thought the pompeii set looked really phony.

Right? It looked so weirdly cheap

---

mnkboy907 posted...

Well it is already renewed for a second season, so there's that.

Oh, I figured it was just a single season run like the other two. Good to know!

---

Paratroopa1 posted...

It bothers me how weirdly earth-centric this show is, when they were talking about finding apocalypses I thought they were going to go to like, a planet that exploded or something, not some boring earth catastrophe. When the list of places that had anomalies came up they were like 90% on earth too. I mean, maybe it's just because Loki is most familiar with earth, but then like one of the resets went to Ego? I dunno it's just weird, I realize it would be hard to make this relatable (and harder to film as well) if they were all crazy weird places in the cosmos but there's like no explanation

This stood out to me too, but I think it may end up making some sense. Like canonically within the MCU as of now, the biggest event in the universe (Thanoss whole situation) was very Earth-centric, even ending with him dying there. Messing that up is probably the biggest possible disruption to the timeline.

Also I dont know for sure what capacity, if any, Kang the Conquerer will appear in this series, but we know hes coming up in the next Ant-Man in somehow, and one of those time keeper statues looks a lot like him.
I dont remember his whole deal exactly, but Im pretty sure hes from Earth too, so if he was involved in starting TVA, that might help explain the Earth-centricity of this stuff.

The TVA in general seems very Earth-centric. All the agents appear to be human, and their mascot is a talking clock, and their whole general aesthetic... Im optimistic that there will be an in-universe reason for all that.
---

They might not need to be so Earth centric if their viewer demographics didn't lean so hard in that direction. Also that Pompeii set was cheaper than any alien planet they could have come up with.

---

MoogleKupo141 posted...

The TVA in general seems very Earth-centric. All the agents appear to be human, and their mascot is a talking clock, and their whole general aesthetic... Im optimistic that there will be an in-universe reason for all that.

And the salad. I was like, why on earth does dude that exists outside of time and space like jet skis and eat salad. Like I said, I hope that's actually explained somehow.

---

It's literally because the audience is human. We see him eating a salad and learn that his greatest dream (which will never be fulfilled) is to ride a jet ski and we get an idea of who this character is. We wouldn't know anything about him if he was eating a flupperflitter and wished he could ride a sloopyslopangir. What are you all going to bitch about next, that they're speaking in a human language? :p

---

Why would they waste money on a set they were gonna spend 5 minutes in?

---

Haven't seen the 2nd episode yet, but isn't a good portion of the MCU guys from Earth anyway? Really only the Asgardians and the Guardians of the Galaxy. I was going to say Captain Marvel but she's a bit of a wanderer who is originally from Earth anyway.

---

ChichiriMuyo posted...

It's literally because the audience is human. We see him eating a salad and learn that his greatest dream (which will never be fulfilled) is to ride a jet ski and we get an idea of who this character is. We wouldn't know anything about him if he was eating a flupperflitter and wished he could ride a sloopyslopangir. What are you all going to bitch about next, that they're speaking in a human language? :p

I get that the writers choose to write about Earth stuff because real people are from Earth, but that doesnt mean there isnt also an in-universe explanation for all the Earth stuff.
---

There really doesn't need to be an in universe explanation for it. There shouldn't be one, frankly, unless it's somehow vital to the entire MCU going forward. Unless the TVA being human-centric informs the entire next decade of Marvel shows and movies there shouldn't be one iota of explanation for this nitpicky nonsense. It's not important to the story at all.

---

Loki... itall just feels so... weak. Like, maybe like Wandavision, things pick up later after a curious first few episodes, but so far, I am just disappoint. The characters feel too dumb, the story weak, the situations bad. The Time Agents feel hilariously incompetent. Loki doesn't feel all that clever. It just... it feels dumb.

I've been mentally comparing it to Legion since we got into the colorfully claustrophobic TVA, and there's just nothing in Loki so far Legion didn't do better. Umbrella Academy and Agents of SHIELD both have Timekeepers (note, checking for robots? Chronotrons) done so much better. Even Legends of Tomorrow has better workplace humor with their time agency.

I don't know what Loki is offering so far. There's some joy in Hiddleston's & Wilson's performances, but it's just a hollow sort of joy. It's... Night at the Museum: Battle for the Smithsonian where it just feels dumb, half-assed, easy, and a hefty lack of gravity or respect for anyone and anything. Everyone a baseline semi-competent stick figure of one or two character notes with a lead who plays the only sane man but just does dumb stuff and we're supposed to find it cute.

Actually, yes. This feels like a Ben Stiller protagonist written for Ben Stiller but played by Tom Hiddleston. The sets are cheap, the action unexciting, the funny bits awkward... does anyone else actively dislike this show?

---

The Spanish voice credits for this week may have spoiled a character reveal, so be very wary of articles and spoilers!

---

Yeah, this is frankly something that doesn't need explained, mostly because any explanation would be deeply unsatisfying. The entire premise of Earth having to be the most important is flawed and only occurs because it's a superhero universe about Earth superheroes. And that's fine! But attempts to justify why Earth is special usually just end up making Earth MORE special without really answering the question.

In comics, the DCU has an in-universe explanation for why Earth is important - Earth is the origin of all life in the universe, which makes it comically and supernaturally important. It's bad! In Marvel and the MCU, Earth's importance is explained because so many powerful forces outside of earth have meddled with it. Eternal, Asgardians, Ego, now the Timekeepers, have taken an interest in it, put Infinity Stones on it, whatever. So it's literally "because gods say so, it becomes important to more gods."

---

Mega Mana posted...

I've been mentally comparing it to Legion since we got into the colorfully claustrophobic TVA, and there's just nothing in Loki so far Legion didn't do better. Umbrella Academy and Agents of SHIELD both have Timekeepers (note, checking for robots? Chronotrons) done so much better. Even Legends of Tomorrow has better workplace humor with their time agency.

Well, for starters, the workplace humor is not something that they are throwing in just for comic relief. Unlike all the other examples you listed, this is a deliberately satirical take on the concept.


---

redrocket posted...

Well, for starters, the workplace humor is not something that they are throwing in just for comic relief. Unlike all the other examples you listed, this is a deliberately satirical take on the concept.

But it's not even a fun or original take on things. It's just the basest stuff that's been done so many times. The shush in the library, the trying to get the librarian's attention before ringing the bell, the ever-hilarious everything for you is classified but these five files which happen to spark an idea that no one in the TVA has ever thought of before (and then going to prove it on a terrible set with cringy "I can do whatever I want! Goats go free, you all die, hahaha!" ...Cory Matthews had more exuberance for chickens loose in the hallway as a senior prank).

Even if this is all building up to where this is an illusion or something Loki is trapped in because some time traveler wants him to do something or other all whilst thinking he's being super clever and above these hapless morons... I dunno.

It just doesn't feel clever, and it wants to be clever.

---

It just doesn't feel clever, and it wants to be clever.

That kinda feels perfect for a show about Loki.

---

Mega Mana posted...

Loki... itall just feels so... weak. Like, maybe like Wandavision, things pick up later after a curious first few episodes, but so far, I am just disappoint. The characters feel too dumb, the story weak, the situations bad. The Time Agents feel hilariously incompetent. Loki doesn't feel all that clever. It just... it feels dumb.

I've been mentally comparing it to Legion since we got into the colorfully claustrophobic TVA, and there's just nothing in Loki so far Legion didn't do better. Umbrella Academy and Agents of SHIELD both have Timekeepers (note, checking for robots? Chronotrons) done so much better. Even Legends of Tomorrow has better workplace humor with their time agency.

I don't know what Loki is offering so far. There's some joy in Hiddleston's & Wilson's performances, but it's just a hollow sort of joy. It's... Night at the Museum: Battle for the Smithsonian where it just feels dumb, half-assed, easy, and a hefty lack of gravity or respect for anyone and anything. Everyone a baseline semi-competent stick figure of one or two character notes with a lead who plays the only sane man but just does dumb stuff and we're supposed to find it cute.

Actually, yes. This feels like a Ben Stiller protagonist written for Ben Stiller but played by Tom Hiddleston. The sets are cheap, the action unexciting, the funny bits awkward... does anyone else actively dislike this show?

I don't actively dislike it, but I was expressing a lot of these same feelings last night after watching. Loki feels weak (why did a random hillbilly beat him in the store?) and the TVA feels fully incompetent. I don't feel like Lady Loki has outwitted them, I just feel like they... kind of suck at their jobs.

---

Great episode, can't believe it's ramping up this quick.

I agree that Loki seems a bit more helpless than I thought he would though.

---

Also, is it confirmed this isn't Enchantress? That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the powerset, yet everyone is saying Lady Loki.

---

Mega Mana posted...

Also, is it confirmed this isn't Enchantress? That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the powerset, yet everyone is saying Lady Loki.

I mean, fair. I'm just going with Lady Loki since the TVA said that she's a Loki Variant but the TVA mis-identifying her and being even more incompetent would check out.

---

None of my ranting discounts how excellent the scenes with Mobius and Loki were in the first episode on Loki's past and future.

---

Complaints about Pompeii are completely ignoring the reality of the difference between movies and TV (yes, even in this era) and the practical considerations of making a set for a five minute scene that will never be revisited.

---

Mega Mana posted...

Also, is it confirmed this isn't Enchantress? That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the powerset, yet everyone is saying Lady Loki.

They might be doing one of those things where they combine elements of two comic characters into one. I definitely thought she looked Enchantressy. They did make a deliberate point to say different Lokis can have differing powers and appearances, so maybe shes just a Loki with a different power and appearance. Dunno.
---

Mega Mana posted...

I've been mentally comparing it to Legion since we got into the colorfully claustrophobic TVA, and there's just nothing in Loki so far Legion didn't do better.

Actually on a subject simular to this, and I dont think it's been brought up in this topic, but I have a chuckle every time I see the credits and they show the barely altered Portal logo.

They are not even trying to hide their influences here. The whole retrofuturistic supernatural bureaucracy aesthetic is basically cheating - all their work has been done before them, and done better by others. And listen, I'm not saying that's a bad thing to me personally. Even though it's become a cliche of its own, I dont usually get tired of this trope. But I do get the complaint.

Mostly though, it has me wondering what else the TVA is based on. The brutalism as a conflicting aesthetic and the similar office areas make me think someone on the team might have played Control, and since games are explicitly on someone's mind with the Portal reference I don't think that's too big a stretch. Fun to think about.

---

I fucking love this series. Also to turn Loki from a villain into a hero of any kind he has to start with being overwhelmed. Pretty classic hero's journey imo.

Loki is by far my favorite of the MCU series so far.

---

Huh surprised to see so much venom at Loki. I mean I love Loki as a character so maybe I can't be expected to be unbiased but man I love this show. By far the best of the MCU Disney stuff so far. Plot keeps moving each episode and Loki and Mobius have a great dynamic. Don't know what else you really need. I guess super well designed sets for all 3 to 4 minute scenes, right? (picking nits)

(Mandalorian may be better though, we'll see how it looks in a few weeks)

---

@Lopen our good taste mindmeld continues. Hi5

---

We may disagree on some things at times, but tastes aren't often it. You bet SirChris Hi5

---

Mega Mana posted...

The shush in the library, the trying to get the librarian's attention before ringing the bell, the ever-hilarious everything for you is classified but these five files which happen to spark an idea that no one in the TVA has ever thought of before (and then going to prove it on a terrible set with cringy "I can do whatever I want! Goats go free, you all die, hahaha!"

i'm not liking the humor so far either for the most part, but bad humor is kind of par for the course for these disney+ marvel shows and i think loki's humor has been the LEAST annoying so far tbqh. i'll take the cringey loki humor over falcon saying "YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY NOT COMING WITH ME!" (immediate cut to them sitting in a plane) or darcy exclaiming "YOU CALLED IT A HEX!"

that being said, i do think this show has too much humor so far. in the comics, loki was always a character who occasionally made jokes. i thought they got this down in the movies pretty well, but in this show, they seem to think he's literally deadpool.

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i'm not liking the humor so far either for the most part, but bad humor is kind of par for the course for these disney+ marvel shows and i think loki's humor has been the LEAST annoying so far tbqh. i'll take the cringey loki humor over falcon saying "YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY NOT COMING WITH ME!" (immediate cut to them sitting in a plane) or darcy exclaiming "YOU CALLED IT A HEX!"

that being said, i do think this show has too much humor so far. in the comics, loki was always a character who occasionally made jokes. i thought they got this down in the movies pretty well, but in this show, they seem to think he's literally deadpool.

He is not even close to Deadpool.

---

Mega Mana posted...

Loki... itall just feels so... weak. Like, maybe like Wandavision, things pick up later after a curious first few episodes, but so far, I am just disappoint. The characters feel too dumb, the story weak, the situations bad. The Time Agents feel hilariously incompetent. Loki doesn't feel all that clever. It just... it feels dumb.

I've been mentally comparing it to Legion since we got into the colorfully claustrophobic TVA, and there's just nothing in Loki so far Legion didn't do better. Umbrella Academy and Agents of SHIELD both have Timekeepers (note, checking for robots? Chronotrons) done so much better. Even Legends of Tomorrow has better workplace humor with their time agency.

I don't know what Loki is offering so far. There's some joy in Hiddleston's & Wilson's performances, but it's just a hollow sort of joy. It's... Night at the Museum: Battle for the Smithsonian where it just feels dumb, half-assed, easy, and a hefty lack of gravity or respect for anyone and anything. Everyone a baseline semi-competent stick figure of one or two character notes with a lead who plays the only sane man but just does dumb stuff and we're supposed to find it cute.

Actually, yes. This feels like a Ben Stiller protagonist written for Ben Stiller but played by Tom Hiddleston. The sets are cheap, the action unexciting, the funny bits awkward... does anyone else actively dislike this show?

Sucks to suck lol

---

Loki is consistent with his MCU portrayal imo

More jokes than say The Avengers but he's not in a driving role here. Loki's portrayal has basically been

When in control: Go into promos about how much smarter and more powerful he is or weak/stupid the other one is. You'll note he does this at the start of the show too until the TVA soundly demonstrates they have control.
When not in control: Joke and plot to backstab

In Thor 2 and Thor Ragnarok Loki is more of a jokey type, because he's not ever really in control there either.

---

Definitely the best of the three shows so far. I came in with high hopes for this one and it's delivered so far.

---

There could be salads on other planets too.

---

UltimaterializerX posted...

This is A++++ television.

See, I disliked the pilot and liked the second episode, but I truly cannot see anything that would give you this feeling. I don't really feel like this show has done anything that you could consider mind-blowingly good.

---

RyoCaliente posted...

See, I disliked the pilot and liked the second episode, but I truly cannot see anything that would give you this feeling. I don't really feel like this show has done anything that you could consider mind-blowingly good.

this is how i feel about all three of the disney+ MCU shows so far tbqh. all three of them have had people rave about them as if they're better than shakespeare and i don't think any of them have been spectacular (though wandavision was pretty good).

i'm also not as into the MCU in general as most people, i guess.

---

I have never said any of them are better than Shakespeare

(But Loki might be better than, say, Taming of the Shrew)

---

Loki is almost certainly better than Titus Andronicus.

---

in fairness, i also think loki actually is better than some shakespeare.

some of the shakespeare sonnets i had to read in high school weren't that great.

---

Shakespeare possibly the most overrated writer of all time!

---

Ive never seen Owen Wilson do Shakespeare, so Loki is clearly better than all Shakespeare .

also You, Me, and Dupree is better than all Shakespeare
---

shakespeare can kiss my butt

---

God I hate Shakespeare

---

The beat Shakespeare is from Before the Storm

---

I put great value on not knowing where a show is going, and I think Loki is the epitome of that as a character. I could see this end with Loki being the hero, the villain, or neither. Who the hell knows. Its Loki

---