Board 8 > MCU General 2: Hubcaptain America, Zemo and The Thunderbolts

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bryans7
04/23/21 8:02:22 PM
#51:


I really liked the first half of Luke Cage season 1, before Cottonmouth dies.

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Grand Kirby
04/23/21 8:38:07 PM
#52:


This series had a lot of problems. Not only was it nowhere near as good as Wandavision, there were just so many issues with it that I don't come off the final episode feeling rewarded for watching it.

Sharon actually being the Power Broker could have been so cool, but she doesn't really do anything? Why the hell did she show up in New York if she was pulling strings behind the scenes anyway? She had Batroc there to do the business she needed, and then she got shot so easily. What a dumb plan. It's only by the grace of the writers that everything worked out for her. Also, maybe I'm forgetting some key plot points, but if she was the Power Broker the whole time why did she lead the guys to the scientist who made the serum? It got him killed and made things worse for her. Also she nearly died THERE too. She's not a great supervillain...

Everything about Karli's storyline was just awful. It's great how even after she tried to murder dozens of people Sam was like "I'm not gonna fight you!". She really doesn't deserve any sympathy but Sam is constantly fawning over her and it's completely stupid.

While it's understandable why the gesture is heartwarming and important, the whole thing about adding a piece to the museum about Isaiah doesn't work out fully without issues. He was very insistent that he wanted his privacy, and while he probably didn't mean it and was hurting, it was still kind of a bad move for Sam to go behind his back and reveal his identity and lay out his life story to the public without asking permission at first. What if Isiah was against it? You wouldn't be able to take it back afterwards. "Oops, sorry. We'll tear down this wing of the museum immediately".

At the beginning you know for sure Sam is truly Captain America because he insulted a Frenchman.

I like how they changed to title to "Captain America and the Winter Soldier". I was predicting they would do that, and it's great.

Edit: Also, I forgot how weak Walker's storyline ended. I actually liked him as a character and what interested to see where he would go, as a villain or a hero. But it just kind of peters out. He has a changed a heart, saves a van, and then everything that happened with him before is okay now? It feels so rushed. There's a scene right afterward where he and Bucky work together and there's not even the slightest acknowledgement that the last time they met they nearly murdered each other. Sure.

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neonreaper
04/23/21 8:40:54 PM
#53:


Good show, enjoyed it, maybe a bit predictable but thats not terrible

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LeonhartFour
04/23/21 8:58:51 PM
#54:


All right, just finished the finale. Solid show. The chemistry between Sam and Bucky was really good, and that was the selling point all along for me. Karli was bad. Should've just replaced her with Big Boss.

I'm glad they let Walker prove he actually can make the right decision in the heat of the moment like his reputation suggests, but they also didn't completely turn him back into a good guy. I'm looking forward to what they do with him in future stuff.

While the main thrust of the show was Sam proving to himself that he could carry the mantle of Captain America, Bucky's redemption arc was the strongest part of the show to me. I really appreciated the scene at the end where he finally confesses to the old man that he murdered his son. I also thought it was a really smart move not to show the old man's response and leave it open ended by skipping to Bucky leaving afterwards.

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VeryInsane
04/23/21 9:03:25 PM
#55:


So I think I liked Wandavision more overall, but this was pretty good, and I feel more likely to have a follow up of sorts with how it got wrapped up

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Mr Lasastryke
04/23/21 9:04:13 PM
#56:


this episode was ok i guess.

man, they literally turned sam into jesus >_>

i thought the first half was stronger than the second. i appreciated that they tried to solve all of the plot points of the show in the second half but it felt rather rushed. having another episode wouldn't have hurt, i suppose.

as for the show in general... meh. very tonally inconsistent. it kept switching back and forth between lighthearted buddy comedy and super serious drama.

the main problem is that the two lead characters are not good. i just don't like sam. bucky's better but he's kind of one-note. i didn't think there was enough to his character to carry an entire show. when a supporting character (USAgent) is way more interesting and better than the two leads, you know there's a problem.

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Waluigi1
04/23/21 9:33:41 PM
#57:


I thought Sam and Bucky were fantastic and totally proved that they can be A-tier Marvel characters that can carry a show/movie.

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mnkboy907
04/23/21 9:37:48 PM
#58:


Haha, during Sam's big speech, my partner just said "if this was at all realistic the senator would just say 'no comment' and walk away".

Sam's new suit was cool. Before watching I wondered if the ending would say something like "Sam will return in Captain America: ______" and hey it almost happened that way. I wonder how long Cap 4 has been in development. Surely this was always the plan and they didn't just wait to see what fan reaction to this show was.

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SwiftyDC
04/23/21 10:32:19 PM
#59:


Captain America? His real name's Clarence. And Clarence parents have a real good marriage.

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dilateDChemist
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TotallyNotMI
04/24/21 7:51:58 AM
#60:


My biggest disappointment is, once again, wanting something to happen that didn't.

I was really hopeful for a post credits tease of Thunderbolts with Zemo.

But other than that, solid show. Liked WandaVision better overall but this was great. I have some issues that echo what's been said here (Karli kind of sucked but MCU often has bad villains) but looking forward to what's next!

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IfGodCouldDie
04/24/21 8:30:37 AM
#61:


Honestly, I mind Karli less when I look at her as less of a character and more as the vehicle for the Flagsmashers' ideals.

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FFDragon
04/24/21 10:27:48 AM
#62:


I've never really liked Bucky and Sam has usually just been "there" for me. But this ended up being okay on the backs of the more interesting secondary characters.

I'd have much rather watched a series on Isaiah wrecking shop and ripping Bucky's arm off tbqhhhh

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BlackDra90n
04/24/21 10:47:06 AM
#63:


Thought the show was fine. Worth watching but Wandavision is better imo.

The villians were super weak throughout the entire show, wish they did more with the Power Broker and at least made the Flagsmashers feel a bit more significant. Sam's speech at the end was a bit forced but I did really like the ending with Isaiah. New suit looks kinda meh imo, not a huge fan of suits that have too much white in them.

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Maniac64
04/24/21 1:17:31 PM
#64:


I like the new look but I hope that there is a black variant for when he needs to be even a little bit stealthy.

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Pokalicious
04/24/21 2:13:00 PM
#65:


TotallyNotMI posted...
My biggest disappointment is, once again, wanting something to happen that didn't.

I was really hopeful for a post credits tease of Thunderbolts with Zemo.

I've heard that was the original plan, but a character also featured in that post-credits scene is supposed to debut in Black Widow, and since that was pushed back so much that FatWS premiered first, the scene will be in the Black Widow movie.

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SwiftyDC
04/24/21 3:30:01 PM
#66:


TotallyNotMI posted...
My biggest disappointment is, once again, wanting something to happen that didn't.

I was really hopeful for a post credits tease of Thunderbolts with Zemo.


I think they are slowly working towards that.


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dilateDChemist
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RyoCaliente
04/24/21 5:54:12 PM
#67:


Grand Kirby posted...
While it's understandable why the gesture is heartwarming and important, the whole thing about adding a piece to the museum about Isaiah doesn't work out fully without issues. He was very insistent that he wanted his privacy, and while he probably didn't mean it and was hurting, it was still kind of a bad move for Sam to go behind his back and reveal his identity and lay out his life story to the public without asking permission at first. What if Isiah was against it? You wouldn't be able to take it back afterwards. "Oops, sorry. We'll tear down this wing of the museum immediately".

I think the point is that the name and the person Isaiah Walker are honoured, but it is not linked to Isaiah Walker (as in, I think it's implied he changed his name and has a different identity, given the nurse taking care of him had him declared dead).

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GuessMyUserName
04/24/21 5:54:36 PM
#68:


post credits here was immeasurably weaker than WandaVision's crazy hype one

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Seanchan
04/24/21 7:28:02 PM
#69:


I feel like it didn't stick the landing. Sam's speech had me rolling my eyes.

There were points where I really felt FatWF could have benefited from the TV-MA rating that the Netflix series had. Obviously that was never going to happen but still...

With that said, I've enjoyed both mini series so far and I think they've shown their potential for more Marvel storytelling.

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profDEADPOOL
04/24/21 8:36:41 PM
#70:


RyoCaliente posted...
I think the point is that the name and the person Isaiah Walker are honoured, but it is not linked to Isaiah Walker (as in, I think it's implied he changed his name and has a different identity, given the nurse taking care of him had him declared dead).
Yeah, he's supposedly dead, and assumedly therefore would not be tied to this exhibit.

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BetrayedTangy
04/24/21 10:09:37 PM
#71:


Yeah the show really failed to intrigue me the same way WandaVision did.

I think most of my issues have been pointed out already by everyone else, but does anyone else feel like Sam and Bucky got sidelined at around the midway point? I thought their stories started off great and had solid resolutions, but it really felt like they got pushed to the background to focus on Zemo, Walker and Karli.

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#72
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Grand Kirby
04/26/21 3:45:55 AM
#73:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URHTrIlO3Os

"Maybe some of the people Bucky and Sam killed would have said 'Please don't kill me' too if they hadn't died so quickly" LMAO

Brings up a really good point about the final title too. Should have been called "Captain America and White Wolf" or something.

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Leafeon13N
04/26/21 5:28:27 AM
#74:


BetrayedTangy posted...
Yeah the show really failed to intrigue me the same way WandaVision did.

I think most of my issues have been pointed out already by everyone else, but does anyone else feel like Sam and Bucky got sidelined at around the midway point? I thought their stories started off great and had solid resolutions, but it really felt like they got pushed to the background to focus on Zemo, Walker and Karli.
Yeah i really felt in the first few episodes that the show title didn't seem very fitting. We didn't get a whole lot of them together.

Honestly the show probably needed another episode or two to flesh things out.
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MoogleKupo141
04/26/21 5:32:47 AM
#75:


I had the same thought initially about the last title card, but after thinking a bit more I think it makes sense to not do the white Wolf thing.

His arc wasnt about taking on this other identity like Sams was, it was about coming to terms with / atoning for his Winter Soldier identity. Theres no moment in the finale of Bucky embracing the name White Wolf, but there is the moment of him admitting to the old Asian guy that hes Winter Soldier.
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HanOfTheNekos
04/26/21 7:04:18 AM
#76:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Age of Ultron was, uh... weird.

Yeah, it's in my bottom 2 along with Iron Man 2. The only two MCU movies I feel are outright bad.

Glad you saw the glory that is Winter Soldier tho

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#77
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Aecioo
04/26/21 10:19:56 AM
#78:


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swordz9
04/26/21 10:22:32 AM
#79:


Iron Man movies after 1 dont exist imo. 2 and 3 are terrible movies to me
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HanOfTheNekos
04/26/21 10:56:53 AM
#80:


Aecioo posted...
Yeah ill never understand anyone who prefers IM3 over 2

I feel the same way in reverse. I get that Justin Hammer might be some peoples' cup of tea, but nothing else about the movie is redeemable. Whiplash isn't done particularly well. It was a lackluster debut for Black Widow. The whole plotline of him having Palladium poisoning/being an alcoholic is not pulled off. It's not a real conflict - it's just an obstacle. It feels very poorly put together, forced, and then is just 'resolved'. The only reason the flip-of-a-switch resolution doesn't bother me too much is because the film does get better when they stop wasting time trying to create drama in an ineffective manner.


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#81
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Leonhart4
04/26/21 4:49:45 PM
#82:


Random thought but it kind of sums up why Karli falls on deaf ears for me. When she's on the phone with Bucky, she's like, "I'm fighting for something bigger than myself. You can't possibly imagine what that's like, can you?"

He should've just gone "I fought in World War II" and hung up the phone.

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Aecioo
04/26/21 5:07:07 PM
#83:


HanOfTheNekos posted...
I feel the same way in reverse. I get that Justin Hammer might be some peoples' cup of tea, but nothing else about the movie is redeemable. Whiplash isn't done particularly well. It was a lackluster debut for Black Widow. The whole plotline of him having Palladium poisoning/being an alcoholic is not pulled off. It's not a real conflict - it's just an obstacle. It feels very poorly put together, forced, and then is just 'resolved'. The only reason the flip-of-a-switch resolution doesn't bother me too much is because the film does get better when they stop wasting time trying to create drama in an ineffective manner.

This is exactly how I feel about the ptsd in 3 lol

At least 2 didn't undercut his conflict with a bunch of hooker and fart jokes >.>

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Paratroopa1
04/26/21 5:10:26 PM
#84:


Leonhart4 posted...
Random thought but it kind of sums up why Karli falls on deaf ears for me. When she's on the phone with Bucky, she's like, "I'm fighting for something bigger than myself. You can't possibly imagine what that's like, can you?"

He should've just gone "I fought in World War II" and hung up the phone.
Oh wow I totally forgot about this but I was fucking STUNNED that that wasn't the next line
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Mac Arrowny
04/26/21 5:24:46 PM
#85:


Leonhart4 posted...
Random thought but it kind of sums up why Karli falls on deaf ears for me. When she's on the phone with Bucky, she's like, "I'm fighting for something bigger than myself. You can't possibly imagine what that's like, can you?"

He should've just gone "I fought in World War II" and hung up the phone.

Same as when she's talking about how the shield is a symbol of oppression or whatever. It was created to fight Nazis!
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profDEADPOOL
04/26/21 7:32:37 PM
#86:


Mac Arrowny posted...
Same as when she's talking about how the shield is a symbol of oppression or whatever. It was created to fight Nazis!
There's an argument to be made it was corrupted from that original purpose... but the show isn't interested in actually having that conversation lol

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LeonhartFour
04/26/21 11:47:30 PM
#87:


After re-watching Infinity War, I'm reminded that IW Thor is the best character in the MCU.

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redrocket
04/26/21 11:59:57 PM
#88:


How bout that IW Rocket?

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Leonhart4
04/27/21 12:11:04 AM
#89:


redrocket posted...
How bout that IW Rocket?

Rocket?

Oh, you mean the rabbit.

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#90
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RyoCaliente
04/27/21 12:52:21 PM
#91:


Gamora (and Thanos) is the only relevant part of IW.

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MrGreenonion
04/27/21 1:52:11 PM
#92:


Mac Arrowny posted...
Same as when she's talking about how the shield is a symbol of oppression or whatever. It was created to fight Nazis!
Not to mention the shield's much more recent history, fighting to save all of existence from Thanos.
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LeonhartFour
04/27/21 4:56:20 PM
#93:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Bruh. Thanos.

Nah, it's still Thor.

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Maniac64
04/27/21 6:15:35 PM
#94:


Isnt the Shields history basically; fought Nazis, frozen for a long time, fought alien invaders, fought Hydra, fought evil robot army, fought the Avengers, fought Thanos?

Dont see much corruption there, only real questionable one is Civil War.

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IfGodCouldDie
04/27/21 6:56:44 PM
#95:


As far as the shield's corruption is concerned, I assume that for the majority of the world they don't see the Avengers the same way we do. Captain America is probably seen as a representation of America not humanity.

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Mac Arrowny
04/27/21 7:05:31 PM
#96:


I mean, he fought against America in both Cap 2 and Cap 3! Hard to imagine them seeing Cap as a pure representation of America when he's an enemy of the state for so long.
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Leafeon13N
04/27/21 7:18:53 PM
#97:


Mac Arrowny posted...
I mean, he fought against America in both Cap 2 and Cap 3! Hard to imagine them seeing Cap as a pure representation of America when he's an enemy of the state for so long.
People will just see that as a representation of America gone wrong and how they cant keep control of their own weaponry.
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IfGodCouldDie
04/27/21 7:42:16 PM
#98:


Mac Arrowny posted...
I mean, he fought against America in both Cap 2 and Cap 3! Hard to imagine them seeing Cap as a pure representation of America when he's an enemy of the state for so long.
We don't really have a clear idea of how it is portrayed to the world though. Also I'm pretty sure the accords were a UN thing so technically he would have been fighting the UN and Winter Soldier he was fighting HYDRA.

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ChichiriMuyo
04/28/21 3:16:29 AM
#99:


He fought Hydra in Cap 2, an evil organization that had infiltrated the US government. He fought in spite of the Sokovia accords in Cap 3, which is/was a UN initiative. Fighting against tyranny from within your own government and telling the UN to fuck off, why it doesn't get more American than that.

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IfGodCouldDie
04/28/21 4:47:18 AM
#100:


Lol

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