Board 8 > Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1366

(+) Yeah! (+)

That's a unusual spelling mistake for the word "played" in the poll question, though.
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That aside, wouldn't the bottom choice usually be "I've never played a single Zelda game once"?

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It's now a play-rate poll instead of a plain-rate poll.

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Favorite sport poll today:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/8426-

Definitely tracking poll updates for this one because of the potential trends here.
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(soccer) football winning the night vote not surprising


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watching sports and drinking beer is the epitome of lazy

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UltimaterializerX posted...

This poll is embarrassing, and it really shows the lazy gamer stereotype where they cant and wont relate to anything requiring hard work to succeed.

That's a hell of a logical leap.

The site's users are paying less attention to sports over time. I could see that just from the now nearly dead Sports and Racing board. The poll results merely vividly reinforces that.

I would attribute it more to simply getting older and having less free time. Maybe people are just spending that time with family. Maybe they're just focusing more on games because time is limited. Maybe they've grown cynical to the Sports-Industrial Complex and the insane economics of salaries and stadiums costs and ticket prices.

Certainly on a personal level I care less about sports than when I was younger. I used to live and die with my teams; now I watch them for entertainment and try not to get too emotionally wrapped up in it all.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

This poll is embarrassing, and it really shows the lazy gamer stereotype where they cant and wont relate to anything requiring hard work to succeed.

GameFAQs is certainly more sports-apathetic than average, but declining interest in sports is an overall trend. The growth of alternative forms of entertainment (streaming, video games, social media, internet in general, etc) over the past 20 years, all the safety and political controversies and the pandemic have dampened a lot of enthusiasm for sports.

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Most of the increase in the last option since the previous time this poll was held came at the expense of the E-sports option, too. So people just dumped the "not a real sport" sports for "No sports at all, even the fake ones."

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I wonder which eSports are the ones GameFAQs likes to watch. Like maybe a large part of the hit is from the lack of in person Smash and fighting game tournaments.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

This poll is embarrassing, and it really shows the lazy gamer stereotype where they cant and wont relate to anything requiring hard work to succeed.

Or maybe other forms of entertainment require hard work as well?

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Team Rocket Elite posted...

I wonder which eSports are the ones GameFAQs likes to watch. Like maybe a large part of the hit is from the lack of in person Smash and fighting game tournaments.

I'd say around 80% are Smash tournaments (probably half of them are Melee), 10% would be other fighting games, and 10% are maybe LoL tournaments or some kind of MOBA.

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lmao imagine thinking people who watch sports aren't regularly fat and lazy

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What a leading poll question today. Tomorrow's poll - what do you like most about SBAllen?

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That he's a Sailor Moon character who likes bacon
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So I guess Game Boy Pocket counts as an "original model?"

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AxemRedRanger posted...

So I guess Game Boy Pocket counts as an "original model?"

That was my issue too, so that's how I voted.

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Favorite Smash poll time

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It's not a favorite game poll because it says "best all-time", which is not interpreted by voters the same way that a favorite game poll would be.

You can clearly see the difference in results between a "best game" poll and a "favorite game" poll by looking at these 2 polls:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7638-
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7757-

It's not 100% comparable due to the second poll having an option for 3D Land, but that game is easily the least popular 3D Mario, so it doesn't really affect the results that much. What I clearly see from those 2 polls that is games which rely on nostalgia will perform worse in a "best game" poll. This applies to Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine, the only 2 3D Marios that are old enough on this site to possibly benefit from nostalgia. Mario Galaxy is a bit too recent to get any strength from nostalgia, at least among this site's userbase. In a "best game" poll, voters see it a bit differently and will actually consider the individual aspects of each game in weighing out which game to vote for. Where as a "favorite game" poll is a snap rush vote that is made without really considering the individual aspects of each game, so you see the effects of nostalgia present in the results.
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Eh, if it was a contest battle right now between Melee vs Ultimate, I'd take Ultimate without much second thought.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Same, especially with all the awful recent news about a bunch of Melee pros being pedos and groomers. Ultimate winning this poll is great.

how is this of any relevance to the game?
Melee won't stop being my favourite smash just because some pedos out there play it


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So the better game is winning. Still why Melee is so high? People should learn to move on.

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Brawl is only barely beating out the original, ouch.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

The dumbest thing I ever did (and its a long list!) was hitching my wagon to the Melee freaks. I love the game, but it has the worst fanbase Ive ever seen in anything. I would legit rather spend time with radical militant feminists.

Nothing has ever surpassed the League of Legends fanbase in my book.

Radical feminists just make me sad because they are partially right in their motives, but seeing all my female friends identifying and sympathizing with them is just...

Let's not talk about it.

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There certainly were a lot of creeps in the Smash fanbase that got exposed but were most of them really the big Melee players in particular?

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AxemRedRanger posted...

There certainly were a lot of creeps in the Smash fanbase that got exposed but were most of them really the big Melee players in particular?

No, there were creeps all through the Smash scene as a whole.

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Probably at the same rate as any scene, pretty sure it actually started with something in the FGC before bleeding into smash.

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When Smash 6 comes out, do you think Ultimate still beats Melee, or are Melee and {most recent Smash game} always going to be the strongest?

Granted a lot of that probably depends on how many characters Smash 6 cuts if any.
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Advokaiser posted...

Brawl is only barely beating out the original, ouch.

To be fair, the original is different enough to hold onto hardcore fans while for Brawl the game was easily replaced by Smash 4 and then Ultimate. I'd still take Brawl > 64 in a 1v1.

OrangeCrush980 posted...

When Smash 6 comes out, do you think Ultimate still beats Melee, or are Melee and {most recent Smash game} always going to be the strongest?

Granted a lot of that probably depends on how many characters Smash 6 cuts if any.

I have a feeling that Smash 6 is going to take a step back in terms of playable characters. It likely depends on what they include, such as a story mode.

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charmander6000 posted...

To be fair, the original is different enough to hold onto hardcore fans while for Brawl the game was easily replaced by Smash 4 and then Ultimate. I'd still take Brawl > 64 in a 1v1.

Really? If anything, I'd assume Smash 64 would be SFF'd to the ground by Melee. But instead, Ultimate is SFF'ing Brawl (and Smash 4) worse than that.

That's an incredibly bad sign, considering Brawl still has some unique features that the others still don't (namely the Subspace Emissary) and a fairly decent chunk of nostalgia.

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I mean, 64 is getting smashed by SFF. We are talking about single digit performances, the hardcore numbers is small either way.

Subspace Emissary is probably what's preventing Brawl from dropping to Smash 4's numbers. Also given the age of the site I doubt Brawl has a lot of nostalgia. Most of the site was either an adult or in their high teens when it was released.

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64 should be SFF'd by everything there, it's really obsolete now unless you absolutely love board the platforms.

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Ultimate > Melee seems like a bad pick even if you ignore the two games' indirect results, which to be fair, isn't a bad idea for gauging that matchup's specific dynamics. Melee's hardcore fanbase (the same segment that pulled off those 2015 rallies) will never just let it lose to Ultimate.

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MetalmindStats posted...

Ultimate > Melee seems like a bad pick even if you ignore the two games' indirect results, which to be fair, isn't a bad idea for gauging that matchup's specific dynamics. Melee's hardcore fanbase (the same segment that pulled off those 2015 rallies) will never just let it lose to Ultimate.

Like when Melee crushed Brawl?

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No, like when SSBM crushed Chrono Trigger.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

No, like when SSBM crushed Chrono Trigger.

And then FFVII before utterly predictably collapsing against Undertale

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SSBM beating FF7 feels like a match that just came and went. Not exactly a good look for a match that's technically a major upset.
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The question was about Melee vs Ultimate.

Melee lost to Brawl straight up. Anything else is irrelevant.

I'm saying the same thing would happen if Ultimate took on Melee now. My gut was right about Brawl back then and I would go with Ultimate here easily (even though the margin would be close).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ultimate hasn't been in a contest yet, has it? Who's to say it ALSO wouldn't beat CT and FF7, as ridiculous as that sounds. I probably wouldn't take Ultimate in either one but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

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Melee gaining a ton of rally power over the last 10 years is absolutely relevant. CT and FF7 both crush 2010 SSBM.

GotY:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7473-best-of-2018-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote

Contests:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7931-division-3-round-1-super-smash-bros-ultimate-vs-tekken-7
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7987-division-3-round-2-super-smash-bros-ultimate-vs-zelda-link
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/8015-division-3-semifinal-super-smash-bros-ultimate-vs-marvels
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/8029-division-3-final-super-smash-bros-ultimate-vs-super-mario
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/8036-quarterfinals-super-smash-bros-ultimate-vs-xenoblade
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/8039-semifinals-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-vs-super-smash-bros

Not exactly a great read but nothing that makes it look like a worldbeater at the very least.
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Ultimate wasn't able to SFF Xenoblade worse than 60-40. I can't see Melee doing worse than that

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Well glad I remembered the 2020 contest, lol... And I finished in the money on that one!

I understand the numbers maybe don't add up but these contests aren't always just straight math. I think Nintendo has done a good job of keeping Ultimate relevant with all the extra characters. I don't know what the critical take is on the game, I just know that Terry Bogard, and Banjo and Kazooie, and Sephiroth are in it now and that's pretty damn neat. And so I'd pick Ultimate and maybe it does lose but I wouldn't feel like it's a bad pick/risk by any means.

Based upon the previous results, what is Melee expected to get on Ultimate? 52%? 55%?


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From what I can tell, the size of the Melee fighting game scene peaked in 2016 (2015 was the second biggest year), which would imply its rallying power isn't as big as it used to be? Also seems like more fans have moved on to watching Ultimate than moved on to watching SSB4.
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Seanchan posted...

Based upon the previous results, what is Melee expected to get on Ultimate? 52%? 55%?

It all depends on how you gauge both games' opponents, since we don't have a consistent comparison almost by definition. Pegging the two as indirectly equal puts Xenoblade, P4G, GTAV, and RDR all dangerously close to KHII and (pre-rally) GSC for my tastes (and after RDR lost 60-40ish to SotC in 2015). Inversely, Xenoblade ~= Portal isn't impossible after what we saw from Portal 2 last contest, in which case Melee indirectly 60-40s Ultimate. The truth is probably somewhere in between those extremes.

That being said, I agree with you that such a match wouldn't be about how both games look in the stats, as my previous post hinted at. It's also fair to say that my logic of Melee having the more hardcore fanbase isn't the most well-founded to determine anything on its own, as many previous close matches have proven (most relevantly Brawl > Melee of course). I'd even agree with you about Ultimate > Melee in a close but never in doubt type of match among GameFAQs regulars alone, but Melee's fanbase has demonstrated its will to rally past any obstacle in a reasonably contemporaneous (unlike GotD) contest setting.

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I would not let Ultimate's lack of high numbers in that contest mean too much, it easily got the job done when it needed to. Mostly, the big numbers came from games that in the GotY discussion anywhere. The Xenoblade match probably should not be taken at value given it was major upset (like 3% that Xenoblade reached that point). Wouldn't be much different from taking Mario/Charizard at face value when the latter had a dream run.

Besides, Melee vs. Ultimate is a match that could easily defy how the numbers looked against other games. .

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To be fair, Super Mario Odyssey looked superior in its GotD2 performances than Ultimate did, yet it still lost to Ultimate 55-45 (mostly due to hierarchy).

I wouldn't rule out the same thing happening in a Melee vs. Ultimate scenario.

Also, rally power is overrated. The only reason I see for Melee to straight up beat Ultimate (save for rallies) is that the casual Smash fanbase may have reduced with the site's decline over the years, and therefore the hardcore fanbase getting stronger.

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I doubt even Melee could manage a big rally anymore but you better believe they'll try harder than anyone because no fanbase has a bigger inferiority/superiority complex in gaming.

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