Board 8 > Don't tell me what I can't do: a 10-year LOST retrospective/character ranking

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GameStonk
02/25/21 8:12:10 PM
#201:


#18. ===========The Jackface Line of Demarcation===========
<img src="https://decider.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/jackface-5.png?w=618">

Appropriately right smack in the middle of the list, separating the good characters from the bad, is the most polarizing and inconsistent character on LOST: Dr. Jack Shephard.

Jack is one of television's most schizophrenic personalities. At times, it seems as if there was a different writer writing his dialogue in each different scene and Matthew Fox just went for it. One episode, Jack will be the educated, thoughtful, calm surgeon; and in the next, he is a raving lunatic who is punching anyone and anything in his way, asking questions later. Jack has some of the most interesting flashes with his father in one episode, and some of the dumbest subplots with Bai Ling in another. The man is a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma.

And you know what? Jack is pure fucking entertainment to me. In my second watch-through, I loved hating him. I loved hating his stupid facial expressions, I loved hating his irrational bursts of violence, I loved hating his asinine decisions to be an action hero (despite being the only doctor of the group). But does that make him a good character, let alone a good main protagonist?

Like much of LOST, it's impossible to say for sure. And in many ways, Jack is a microcosm for the show. I loved hating it sometimes, and it filled me with enjoyment and profound disappointment. Jack is everything that is good in the show and also everything bad about it. But after much deliberation, this is where he belongs--in the middle, but never mediocre.
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FFDragon
02/25/21 8:13:42 PM
#202:


S6 Gives Zero Fucks Jack is his peak.

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GameStonk
02/25/21 8:15:42 PM
#203:


FFDragon posted...
S6 Gives Zero Fucks Jack is his peak.
Season 6 is definitely Jack at his most likable but also Jack at his most pointless
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PrivateBiscuit1
02/25/21 8:18:18 PM
#204:


Jack is whatever the drama needs him to be at the time, with the logic tied together with shoe strings.

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GameStonk
02/25/21 8:18:54 PM
#205:


Recap so far:

18. Jackface Line of Demarcation
19. Sun
20. Rousseau
21. Richard
22. Widmore
23. Dr. Chang Fodder Line
24. Jacob
25. Eko
26. Alex
27. Claire
28. Boone
29. Libby
30. Walt
31. Eloise
32. Shannon
33. Charlotte
34. Michael
35. Kate
36. Ilana
37. Paulo & Nikki
38. Ana Lucia
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wallmasterz
02/25/21 8:29:24 PM
#206:


Recently I started feeling a bit nostalgic for Lost and thought about revisiting it. But this is just making me feel as if I need to enjoy the memories and leave this damn show buried. At least unless my kids want to give it a try or something.

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mnkboy907
02/25/21 8:29:46 PM
#207:


I still remember when Sun and Jin reunited and being distracted and horrified that I thought one of them just ran through that sonic barrier or whatever and was about to die.

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PrivateBiscuit1
02/25/21 8:31:35 PM
#208:


mnkboy907 posted...
I still remember when Sun and Jin reunited and being distracted and horrified that I thought one of them just ran through that sonic barrier or whatever and was about to die.
Tbh that would have been better than what we got tbh.

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GameStonk
02/25/21 8:32:36 PM
#209:


wallmasterz posted...
Recently I started feeling a bit nostalgic for Lost and thought about revisiting it. But this is just making me feel as if I need to enjoy the memories and leave this damn show buried. At least unless my kids want to give it a try or something.
It's definitely worth watching with someone who hasn't seen it before, if only to see their reactions to all of the nonsense
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wallmasterz
02/25/21 9:01:22 PM
#210:


I have a coworker who says he watched season one, felt the sum of its parts was perfect, and decided never to watch another episode. I need to have a follow up convo with him Im curious if he ever found out what was in the hatch.

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LordoftheMorons
02/25/21 9:12:15 PM
#211:


Jack was probably the character whose stock went up the most for me after rewatching the series

(The character who fell the most was Locke)

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FFDragon
02/25/21 9:16:19 PM
#212:


Locke is a sad man larping as a badass, manipulating people and making the lives of everyone around him worse.

He's both the most frustrating and the most pathetic character on the show.

---
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GameStonk
02/25/21 9:22:16 PM
#213:


FFDragon posted...
Locke is a sad man larping as a badass, manipulating people and making the lives of everyone around him worse.
That is true and part of what makes him an awesome character.
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FFDragon
02/25/21 9:27:04 PM
#214:


Hard disagree. He's in my bottom five.

His peak is getting punked and killed by literal Ben.

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Underleveled
02/25/21 9:33:58 PM
#215:


Hmm, I have not updated my list in a long time, have I?

8. Alex Rousseau
9. ???
10. Sun-Hwa Kwon
11. ???
12. ???
13. ???
14. Danielle Rousseau
15. ???
16. Jack Shephard
17. ???
18. ???
19. Ana-Lucia Cortez
20. ???
21. Kate Austen
22. Richard Alpert
23. ???
24. ???
25. Mr. Eko
26. Michael Dawson
27. Eloise Hawking
28. Jacob
29. Charles Widmore
30. Walt Lloyd
31. Claire Littleton
32. Pierre Chang
33. Libby Smith
34. Charlotte Lewis
35. Ilana Verdanksy
36. Shannon Rutherford
37. Boone Carlyle
38. ???
39. Paulo
40. Nikki Fernandez

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darkx
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GameStonk
02/25/21 9:36:44 PM
#216:


I think I know who your #38 might be, and I think you might not like my placement!
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Underleveled
02/25/21 9:38:04 PM
#217:


I guess I'll give a hint - it's not someone that was in Season 1 (at all).

Also, the remaining 8 of my top 10 consist of
Four characters introduced in S1
Two characters introduced in S2
One character introduced in S3
One character introduced in S4

(these are the seasons that they made their debut appearances, not necessarily the seasons in which they were added to the main cast, and all of them were main cast at some point)

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darkx
Games beaten in 2021 - 15; Most recent - Horizon: Zero Dawn
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colliding
02/25/21 11:53:08 PM
#218:


I really vibed with Jack in Season 3 and 4 when he was an alcoholic listening to the Pixies and Nirvana in his car.

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MoogleKupo141
02/26/21 12:16:26 AM
#219:


remember when Jack did a straight up Superman punch in season 6 (The finale, I think ?)

that ruled
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TomNook
02/26/21 12:57:51 AM
#220:


wallmasterz posted...
I have a coworker who says he watched season one, felt the sum of its parts was perfect, and decided never to watch another episode.
I envy him.

I should have stopped after season 3. There was literally nothing worthwhile in 4, 5, or 6.

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Naye745
02/26/21 1:26:12 AM
#221:


season 4 is great! and i mean, come on, even if you don't like the season 4 story arc, saying there's nothing worthwhile when "the constant" is on that season is absolute nonsense

also jack is perhaps the one character who gets a solid and appropriate ending. hooray!

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SeabassDebeste
02/26/21 7:26:34 AM
#222:


nice writeups for sun and jack. i *think* i might have jack a bit higher, simply because he was perhaps the only character to be better in later seasons than he was in earlier seasons
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GameStonk
02/26/21 8:05:02 AM
#223:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
remember when Jack did a straight up Superman punch in season 6 (The finale, I think ?)

that ruled
Best part of the finale
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VintageGin
02/26/21 3:46:47 PM
#224:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
remember when Jack did a straight up Superman punch in season 6 (The finale, I think ?)

that ruled


If I recall correctly they even cut to commercial break while he was midair and about to land his punch

Just so they could show it again after the break

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GameStonk
02/26/21 3:51:44 PM
#225:


VintageGin posted...
If I recall correctly they even cut to commercial break while he was midair and about to land his punch

Just so they could show it again after the break
Yessir. Hulu was perfect for recreating that experience for me.
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GameStonk
02/26/21 9:51:23 PM
#226:


I am wasted right now and cackling thinking about jack scenes.

I really should have him at #1 to troll

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GameStonk
02/28/21 1:38:26 AM
#227:


More tomorrow
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ffmasterjose
02/28/21 11:35:48 AM
#228:


On this day 13 years ago the best episode of Season 4, The Constant, first aired.

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Underleveled
02/28/21 11:44:24 AM
#229:


ffmasterjose posted...
On this day 13 years ago the best episode of the series, The Constant, first aired.
FTFY

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darkx
Games beaten in 2021 - 16; Most recent - Chibi-Robo! Zip Lash
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GameStonk
02/28/21 1:24:40 PM
#230:


oh hey I can embed picture now!

#17. Martin Keamy


Keamy is a really effective bad guy. I haven't done the research to confirm this, but I get the feeling that Keamy earned himself a bigger role on the show through sheer contrast against some of the other antagonists we've seen across the series. His motivations are clear; there is no ambiguity about his morality; and he actually succeeds in being someone you root against.

Keamy also doesn't overstay his welcome. He played his part exactly as long as was needed and didn't bloat his arc with some extended backstory. He was a badass mercenary who was there for one reason and, if not for the black smoke, he would have delivered. And yes, he also makes some good eggs.
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Underleveled
02/28/21 1:28:34 PM
#231:


I was expecting Rose & Bernard next. I suspect they're still soon.

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darkx
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PrivateBiscuit1
02/28/21 1:30:06 PM
#232:


Yeeeeah Keamy doesn't get enough respect as an antagonist. My Keamy rant is this:

In a show where everyone plays stupid fucking games of subterfuge and nonsense with magic island warfare, Keamy just comes along and very decidedly goes "I'm not playing your dumbass games."

So when Ben's like "lol ya i dont care u got my daughter i dont even love her" he just kills her, boom. No games. Doesn't give a shit if Ben is bluffing or not. He's here to get a job done. End of story. Just mows down Others no problem. Just makes it clear he's here to do his job and he's not listening to anything else.

Keamy is just terrifying and effective and such a good choice because he is absolutely against playing nonsense island games and was such a unique element to the show during that season, and it's a shame it was during the writer's strike because he could have had so much more too.

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GameStonk
02/28/21 1:36:53 PM
#233:


#16. Penelope "Penny" Widmore


Contrasting with Keamy, who is probably the most unapologetically "bad" character on the show, we have the character who personifies "good" more than anyone else: Penny. Penny is one of many searching for the location of the Island; but unlike everyone else, her motivations are pure and are driven solely by the desire to find the man she loves and bring him home--not to use the Island for her own purposes.

And it's that relentless drive to find Desmond that makes Penny so likable. Her only real downside is that she has very little screentime compared to others on this list, the exception being in the hands-down best episode of the series "The Constant." If anything, that just goes to show you how fantastic that episode is--that we can be talking about a relatively minor character, by virtue of her involvement in that one 40 minutes of TV, as one of the better ones on the show.
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GameStonk
02/28/21 1:44:20 PM
#234:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
Yeeeeah Keamy doesn't get enough respect as an antagonist. My Keamy rant is this:

In a show where everyone plays stupid fucking games of subterfuge and nonsense with magic island warfare, Keamy just comes along and very decidedly goes "I'm not playing your dumbass games."

So when Ben's like "lol ya i dont care u got my daughter i dont even love her" he just kills her, boom. No games. Doesn't give a shit if Ben is bluffing or not. He's here to get a job done. End of story. Just mows down Others no problem. Just makes it clear he's here to do his job and he's not listening to anything else.

Keamy is just terrifying and effective and such a good choice because he is absolutely against playing nonsense island games and was such a unique element to the show during that season, and it's a shame it was during the writer's strike because he could have had so much more too.
I agree with this and he definitely stands out more when you binge the show. So much of the drama is just circular nonsense that leads nowhere to pad the seasons, but Keamy is like "yeah I'm going to get a bunch of marines and will shoot everyone LOL."
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colliding
02/28/21 2:14:22 PM
#235:


Keamy's real good and was also one of the better memes of season 6, which is only enjoyable in meme form.

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ffmasterjose
02/28/21 3:23:50 PM
#236:


I always thought it was hilarious how he inadvertantly kills Omar twice.

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GameStonk
02/28/21 3:57:53 PM
#237:


#15. Daniel Faraday


Back in the day on board 8, I remember Faraday being a consensus top 3 guy. Looking back, one can see why he appealed to so many of the superfans here. He's an awkward genius with a hot girlfriend and, perhaps most importantly, he is the only character to have the mysteries of the Island figured out. So for the 20-year-old nerdy fans who spent their nights on forums piecing together theories about the show, Faraday was basically their God.

Now that I am older, Faraday has lost some of his initial appeal to me, but he's a pretty fascinating and unique character nonetheless. Him being a stand-in for the audience really still works even if it's not executed perfectly every time--but his intellectual obsession and need to figure out just what's been going on is a great meta narrative at the height of the LOST fandom.

If it's not pretty obvious yet, I am a sucker for Desmond-centric episodes, and that is where Faraday really shines the most. "The Constant" is the closest thing the show has come to successfully offering a scientific/rational explanation for the mysteries of the Island (as opposed to the spiritual/magical), and Faraday is the perfect vessel by which that is achieved. It's kind of a shame they did not do more with him throughout the series, and his death is one of about a dozen underwhelming deaths from season 6, but he will always rank in the top half for his role in the season 4 apex.
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Daniel_Faraday
02/28/21 4:13:22 PM
#238:


Daniel Faraday died in Season 5 but yes, it was a terrible death.
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PrivateBiscuit1
02/28/21 4:22:10 PM
#239:


Faraday is always someone who deserved better and deserved more and his death was the shits and so god damn stupid. I still don't understand why they would have killed him off there anyway. Just such a pointless death. I'd probably rank him higher just because he really was so enjoyable when he was around and I frankly can't think of 14 more characters better than him.

He was such a different sort of character that stood out far more than most others and actually, you know, seemed useful in a cast where everyone's usefulness started to becoming more dwindling with all of the complete nonsense happening everywhere and characters being devalued by bad writing.

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SeabassDebeste
02/28/21 5:33:26 PM
#240:


keamy didn't really impress me, but he was a fine villain.

penny doesn't really move the boat that much (lol) but yeah, she's extremely likeable and appears in the right roles

faraday is kind of a "whatever" character to me - none of the S4 freighter guys really had that much going for them, honestly
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Underleveled
02/28/21 5:45:04 PM
#241:


8. Alex Rousseau
9. ???
10. Sun-Hwa Kwon
11. ???
12. ???
13. ???
14. Danielle Rousseau
15. Penny Widmore
16. Jack Shephard
17. ???
18. Daniel Faraday
19. Ana-Lucia Cortez
20. ???
21. Kate Austen
22. Richard Alpert
23. ???
24. ???
25. Mr. Eko
26. Michael Dawson
27. Eloise Hawking
28. Jacob
29. Charles Widmore
30. Walt Lloyd
31. Claire Littleton
32. Pierre Chang
33. Libby Smith
34. Charlotte Lewis
35. Ilana Verdanksy
36. Shannon Rutherford
37. Boone Carlyle
38. Martin Keamy
39. Paulo
40. Nikki Fernandez

I may have argued for Keamy's inclusion on this list, but that doesn't mean I like him. If you're selecting the 40 most important characters from the show's run, he ought to be on there. But I hate the guy. He infuriated me for every second he was on screen, and I know that that makes him an objectively successful character and an effective villain but here's my logic - Dolores Umbridge infuriated me for every second she was present, and that was the point of her character. I still have her dead last on my Harry Potter ranking because she's just one of those people that I can't bring myself to even appreciate as a good villain. Keamy is the same type of person for me.

Man, I thought that my list was top-heavy for the men, but only two women in your top 15?! And one of them is paired with a man (I think we all know that the woman carried that duo though, and she's the higher of the two on my list, with a few spots separating them to boot). Not that that's your fault. It's already been said, this show sucked at creating compelling female characters.

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GameStonk
02/28/21 5:46:21 PM
#242:


Underleveled posted...
Man, I thought that my list was top-heavy for the men, but only two women in your top 15?! And one of them is paired with a man (I think we all know that the woman carried that duo though, and she's the higher of the two on my list, with a few spots separating them to boot). Not that that's your fault. It's already been said, this show sucked at creating compelling female characters.
Haha yep, blame it on the writers. I tried!
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Naye745
02/28/21 6:16:51 PM
#243:


i agree on keamy - i'm not sure what exactly it is about lost that made a one-note villain so compelling, but i think it's basically what y'all said; he cuts through the shows endless nonsense and actually gets something done. not my favorite by any stretch but i think his presence is at the core of why i think s4 is generally quite good and consistently compelling.

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andylt
02/28/21 6:49:45 PM
#244:


Going back to the Flash-sideways conversation, the worst thing in the end was David. Like what the hell is he?!

SeabassDebeste posted...
penny doesn't really move the boat that much (lol)
lol

Never got the fuss over Keamy. I am very fond of Penny but I recognise that is entirely down to her relationship with Desmond and the writing on her specifically is usually weak. I did always like her taking the initiative of hitting on Des in the first place in Catch-22 though.

The Boat folks all got screwed. Faraday was the best among them (Miles is good but has very little to do, Lapidus is just a meme, Charlotte is nothing).

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Underleveled
02/28/21 6:59:58 PM
#245:


andylt posted...
Going back to the Flash-sideways conversation, the worst thing in the end was David. Like what the hell is he?!
Is that Jack/Juliet's son? Because yeah, his existence literally makes no sense.

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darkx
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GameStonk
02/28/21 7:33:39 PM
#246:


Underleveled posted...
Is that Jack/Juliet's son? Because yeah, his existence literally makes no sense.
Yeah, this one blew my mind. Did they not plan for the ending when they conceived this idea? The whole thing is preposterous.
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Mega Mana
02/28/21 9:18:40 PM
#247:


He's a metaphor for Jack's daddy issues, to be a better father than his father.


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GameStonk
03/01/21 12:34:20 PM
#248:


#14. Jin Soo-Kwon


His very bad, no good, atrocious, pitifully written ending in season 6 aside, Jin has one of the more complete arcs of any character on the show. He starts out as an aloof, controlling husband who seems to get into fights with everyone on the Island; and through some interesting flashbacks, we slowly begin to understand why he is that way. And then over the course of a few seasons, we watch as Jin grows into a more loving partner and a loyal ally to the other survivors. It's pretty much exactly what a character arc should be.

If we are to take the creators at face value when they claim that LOST is "really about the characters," then I think Jin is the quintessential model for that claim. His flashbacks exclusively serve the purpose of fleshing him out into a multidimensional character, and his growth as a person in real-time is directly due to the actions that happen in the story. There's no mystical bullshit or heavy-handed ideas about "fate" woven in--Jin is a simple A to B story, where you hate him at first and then wind up rooting for him by the end.

But, as I mentioned in Sun's write-up, the end of Jin's story is just unforgivable and unfortunately keeps him out of the top 10.
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GameStonk
03/01/21 12:44:07 PM
#249:


#13. Frank Lapidus


Yaas, Daddy Frank! Post-rehab Mel Gibson in one season and then salt and pepper man hunk in the next. Truly one of the more astonishing twists in the show.

Anyway, Lapidus is one of the rare characters who comes in and gets shit done on LOST. Like a good version of Keamy in a way, he doesn't care about all of the weird nonsense going on in the Island or about any of the drama between the characters. He is there to prove that he was right about Widmore faking the crash of Flight 815, and then getting the fuck off the Island.

It's that refreshing take that ranks Lapidus as high as I have him. Sure, he may not have the most fully evolved backstory or the most to do there, but his one-note mission statement keeps the show moving and acts as a pretty hilarious foil to some of the more "serious" characters. He is just one of those guys you want to root for throughout the series, and one of the few true protagonists of the show.
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PrivateBiscuit1
03/01/21 12:48:39 PM
#250:


Doesn't he have like five lines in the last season or some ridiculous number?

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