Board 8 > Don't tell me what I can't do: a 10-year LOST retrospective/character ranking

(+) Yeah! (+)

MAJOR UNMARKED SPOILERS FROM HERE ON OUT. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Greetings, board 8. I recently rewatched LOST for the 10-year anniversary of the series finale, and I have some feelings about it. While I only caught the tail-end of the series as it was broadcast live week after week, it was definitely a different experience to be able to binge all six seasons. And this helped add some perspective and solidify some thoughts that had been lingering in my mind since I watched the finale with great disappointment in my college dorm 10 years ago.

I wanted to structure this retrospective as a character ranking topic, since the creators themselves have repeatedly said "this is a show about character relationships," so here goes. As I mentioned in the other topic, I do need to draw some lines as to who gets ranked and who doesn't, so here are a few rough ground rules:

1. Any character with a specific flashback/forward/sideways gets a write-up. No exceptions.
2. All supporting characters on this list must appear in the main story. That is, they need to be in or around the island during "present-day" events (whenever the present day happens to be).
3. Open to discussing if a side character is in the main story enough to warrant a write-up in the next few posts. Some folks will be borderline.
4. Anyone possessed by the Man in Black counts toward the Man in Black's ranking only. That means Locke's actions on the Island in Season 6 will not affect regular Locke's ranking, and so on.
5. Aaron and Vincent do not count as characters.
6. A few very select characters will get written up in pairs, since their stories are inextricably linked.

Next post: the characters I would include, ordered per how they appear on LOSTpedia. Let's debate this for a bit!

Characters I (tentatively) will be ranking
Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sawyer
Locke
Sayid
Jin
Sun
Claire
Charlie
Ben
Juliet
Michael
Desmond
Man in Black
Miles
Walt
Shannon
Richard
Frank
Boone
Rose & Bernard
Ana Lucia
Daniel
Libby
Eko
Charlotte
Ilana
Penny
Eloise
Paulo & Nikki
Rousseau
Alex
Widmore
Keamy
Jacob

Characters I will not be ranking (but you can convince me otherwise)
Anyone who is never on/around the Island (ie, flash exclusive characters)
Christian (technically will count as Man in Black when on the Island)
Dr. Chang
Tom
Cindy
Ethan
Mars
Naomi
Karl
Phil
Arzt
Mikhail
Zack & Emma
Bram
Anthony Cooper
Horace
Radzinsky
Roger
Minkowsky
Zoe
Frogurt

I guess Dr. Chang technically has a flashback episode, sorta. How do you guys feel about him?

IMO Christian ought to be included. Even as a flashback-exclusive character he was far more important and prominent than some of the characters on your list, and IIRC his actor was credited with a starring role for the finale along with many of the other series-long supporting actors, but I do understand wanting to exclude him for being a flashback-exclusive character and not wanting to go down that rabbit hole.

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Dr. Chang ought to be included as well.

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I'd also say Tom and maybe Ethan should be ranked.

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I care more about Ethan, Tom and Mikhail than I do about Chang

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DeepsPraw posted...

I care more about Ethan, Tom and Mikhail than I do about Chang

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DeepsPraw posted...

I care more about Ethan, Tom and Mikhail than I do about Chang

Here's the thing. Ethan, Tom, and Mikhail are all basically just henchmen with no real arcs. The only one with a fleshed-out backstory is Ethan, and that was obviously just shoehorned in when they realized the actor was available in later seasons.

Dr. Chang has an arc, albeit a small one. Still debating including him, but Ethan, Tom, and Mikhail are hardly characters tbh.

Tag

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Tom > Mikhail > Ethan > Chang

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I'd say Tom, Ethan, and Mikhail deserve to be added.

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For what it's worth, Tom and Ethan have their own Wikipedia pages, as does Christian. Those are the only three characters with their own pages that aren't on your list to be ranked (the only character on your list that doesn't have one is Eloise).

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If we add these dudes i'm pretty sure they're just going to end up at the bottom, so I don't really care either way

maybe just make a separate post that ranks them with no write ups or something

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tag

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Hmm yeah I think I'm going to exclude Chang and those three. There's really no way to compare them to characters with proper backstories.

I think it's a mistake to exclude Christian, but the rest of the people I'm indifferent on.


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Aecioo posted...

I think it's a mistake to exclude Christian, but the rest of the people I'm indifferent on.

Christian is only Christian in the flashbacks though. I feel like I'd be compelled to include other recurring flashback characters then.

you sonuvabitch i'm in
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Aecioo posted...

I think it's a mistake to exclude Christian, but the rest of the people I'm indifferent on.

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Alright, by popular demand, I have added Christian and Dr. Chang to the final list. That makes 38 characters in total:

Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sawyer
Locke
Sayid
Jin
Sun
Claire
Charlie
Ben
Juliet
Michael
Desmond
Man in Black
Miles
Walt
Shannon
Richard
Frank
Boone
Rose & Bernard
Ana Lucia
Daniel
Libby
Eko
Charlotte
Ilana
Penny
Eloise
Paulo & Nikki
Rousseau
Alex
Widmore
Keamy
Jacob
Dr. Chang
Christian

DeepsPraw posted...

I care more about Ethan, Tom and Mikhail than I do about Chang

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One character I really like is Kelvin Inman (Clancy Brown's character in the hatch), but he's definitely more minor than some of the ones you're excluding

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#38. Ana Lucia Cortez
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41g19LUei7L._AC_.jpg

Let me preface this with a little warning: part of me hates this show. Don't get me wrong, I also really love this show, but nothing else that I've invested this much time in has so many highs accompanied by so many lows. Accordingly, you'll find that I will be critiquing the majority of the characters, disliking about half the characters, and loathing a select few characters. And no one on here is more contemptible than Michelle Rodriguez's Ana Lucia Cortez.

At this point, hating Ana Lucia is probably trite--and maybe the fanbase has even come around on her a bit in recent years. How can one honestly rank her lower than, say, Paulo and Nikki, who have no meaningful purpose in the LOST universe and are by all accounts failed throwaways who just happened to get their own episode?

Well, here's my rationale. Every moment Ana Lucia is on screen, enjoyment is drained from the show. Michelle Rodriguez's performance is terrible. Her character is irritating and bullying, lacking chemistry with everyone else on the Island. She is consistently wrong in all of her instincts. And she remains probably the least sympathetic figure based on her flashbacks, which depict her as a literal psychopathic murderer.

It's long been rumored that Ana Lucia met her end because of her real-life DUI arrest, but I suspect that it was not a difficult decision for the LOST writers to kill her off. Her mere existent represents the first of many stumbling blocks in the show, effectively ruining the potential of the tail-end passengers as an opportunity to expand the cast. But, most importantly, her presence is simply off-tone with what had been built in season 1, and really brought down everyone who had the misfortune of being a part of her arc.

Ana Lucia is rightfully shamed as the worst main character on the show.

Off to a terrible start

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19. Ana-Lucia Cortez
20. ???
21. ???
22. ???
23. ???
24. ???
25. ???
26. ???
27. ???
28. ???
29. ???
30. ???
31. ???
32. ???
33. ???
34. ???
35. ???
36. ???
37. ???
38. ???
39. ???
40. ???

I have 40 spots on my list because I didn't combine any pairs. I actually have Rose and Bernard separated by a few characters, and thought it would be silly to just do one pair of Nikki & Paulo, plus separating them brings the list to a nice round number.

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#37. Nikki Fernandez & Paulo
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/NikkiPaulo.jpg">

The first of only two sets of characters who will be ranked in pairs, for obvious reasons. Nikki and Paulo are the same story--both in terms of their Island arc, their flashbacks, and the interesting background of their real-life creation.

Nikki and Paulo were created in response to fan criticism that the show doesn't focus on enough of the other survivors--a very bizarre decision considering what we learn about the main characters in the later seasons. I don't know if it's because of the rushed, last-minute pressure on the writers, but it's hard to imagine more of an airball than these two.

Nikki and Paulo appear almost randomly, accompanying the characters we actually like on their mission, and it's really jarring. And not jarring in the uncanny way Ethan's presence was, or even jarringly amusing in a meta way like Arzt and Frogurt. The arbitrary addition of these two in those scenes kind of takes you out of the whole narrative, reminding you that this was a hit TV show on a Disney-owned station, and appeared to be the exact shoehorned response to these fan complaints that we suspected.

But then we get to Expos, perhaps one of the most pointless episodes in a season that was already dragging week after week. Their flashback is silly, uncompelling, and ultimately useless (other than a cute scene with Miles in season 6)--serving only to kill off these characters who were barely introduced. Truly one of the strangest decisions in a series of strange decisions, but thankfully it is limited to a select few episodes.

And now the most obvious bottom of the list is complete!

Nikki and Paulo's introduction scene was cut for time in their debut episode. Really goes to show how important those two were

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I was actually so confused as to why Nikki & Paulo were introduced and quickly killed off, and with their actors credited with the main cast at that, that I actually looked up the history behind them, and as it turns out they actually were supposed to have bigger roles and last at least until the end of season 3. They would have been retroactively woven into several storylines from the first two seasons (as we saw a bit of in Expose) and been built up as unlikable characters who ultimately redeemed themselves, but very early into producing the season, the writers realized that they just weren't going to work, so they reduced their roles and condensed their storyline into a single episode, abruptly killing them off.

Anyway yeah, they suck, and even though there are a few characters that actively piss me off more than them, they are, objectively, the worst characters that were ever on the show.

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ana lucia wasn't likable but she was clearly a better character than, say, kate. or boone. or shannon.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

ana lucia wasn't likable but she was clearly a better character than, say, kate. or boone. or shannon.

So the difference between Ana Lucia's badness and the badness of some of those you mention above is that Ana Lucia was the first of the new main characters. Kate, Boone, and Shannon were a part of LOST from the very beginning. Like them or not, at least they fit in to the universe--because they are the universe.

Ana Lucia talks and acts like she is from a completely different show and it nearly torpedoes the second season imo. She is a representation of what is perhaps the biggest issue with the series at large--the seemingly random changes in tone and genre across episodes. LOST is at its best a story about unrelated characters figuring out how and why their fates are intertwined. Ana Lucia instead acts like she is in a Predator reboot.

SeabassDebeste posted...

ana lucia wasn't likable but she was clearly a better character than, say, kate. or boone. or shannon.

Yeah this is why I would never attempt to rank characters in a show with this big of an ensemble cast that also went on for so long

I hate Michelle Rodriguez, but how do I judge Ana Lucia who managed to have more character in one season vs someone like Kate who had zero character and was basically just there so the writers could create conflict, but I liked her more.

i dunno anyway desmond #1

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ana lucia is exactly how the writers want her to be, so I wouldn't say she's a bad character. she's patently unlikable, but she fulfills that role well.

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#36. Ilana Verdansky
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Ilana_Verdansky.jpg">

Ilana is another one of those characters who sticks in my craw because of what she represents more than what she does. She is the perfect symbol for another huge flaw in the series, which you'll see as a recurring theme in these write-ups: needlessly wasted potential.

We're introduced to Ilana in season 5, seemingly too late to really have any meaningful character development, but the writers persisted anyway. After the unsurprising reveal that she actually knows more about the Island than she let on, we soon discover that she is essentially a bodyguard/protector of Jacob--the godlike, omniscient presence across several seasons by this point.

And that's where Ilana begins to enrage me. One would think that someone not only connected to Jacob outside the Island, but someone who is entrusted to protect him, would offer something interesting to the lore. Instead, we get nothing by way of background, character, or even a thematic revelation from her. She is just a plot device helping one set of characters get to another, with a passing reference to Jacob acting as a "father figure" to her. How? When? Why? These are questions that could have taken the character in so many places and could have perhaps even salvaged some of the weakest parts of seasons 5-6.

But no. The writers do nothing with Ilana. And then they explode her when she was done serving her purpose. Absolutely embarrassing trash writing.

I forgot she existed

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GameStonk posted...

#36. Ilana Verdansky
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Ilana_Verdansky.jpg">

Ilana is another one of those characters who sticks in my craw because of what she represents more than what she does. She is the perfect symbol for another huge flaw in the series, which you'll see as a recurring theme in these write-ups: needlessly wasted potential.

We're introduced to Ilana in season 5, seemingly too late to really have any meaningful character development, but the writers persisted anyway. After the unsurprising reveal that she actually knows more about the Island than she let on, we soon discover that she is essentially a bodyguard/protector of Jacob--the godlike, omniscient presence across several seasons by this point.

And that's where Ilana begins to enrage me. One would think that someone not only connected to Jacob outside the Island, but someone who is entrusted to protect him, would offer something interesting to the lore. Instead, we get nothing by way of background, character, or even a thematic revelation from her. She is just a plot device helping one set of characters get to another, with a passing reference to Jacob acting as a "father figure" to her. How? When? Why? These are questions that could have taken the character in so many places and could have perhaps even salvaged some of the weakest parts of seasons 5-6.

But no. The writers do nothing with Ilana. And then they explode her when she was done serving her purpose. Absolutely embarrassing trash writing.

This. So much.

25. Ana-Lucia
26.
27.
28.
29.
30.
31.
32.
33.
34. Nikki
35.
36.
37. Paulo
38.
39. Ilana
40.

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19. Ana-Lucia Cortez
20. ???
21. ???
22. ???
23. ???
24. ???
25. ???
26. ???
27. ???
28. ???
29. ???
30. ???
31. ???
32. ???
33. ???
34. ???
35. Ilana Verdanksy
36. ???
37. ???
38. ???
39. Paulo
40. Nikki Fernandez

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glad to see the shared hatred

up next: our first "major" character...not sure how controversial this will be!

ilana was mostly useless, yeah. i don't really have any hatred for her since it's not like she wasted a lot of time.

nikki and paulo were part of an excellent episode and were just hilariously out of place when they talked (very prominently!) before that
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Please be Kate.

I have never seen writers miss the mark with a character as badly as they did with Kate. Just a maddeningly terrible, god awful person so constantly while at the same time insisting we ever feel bad for her.

Just horrible.

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#35. Kate Austen
<img src="https://kathrynmoody.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/kate_austen_.jpg">

I guess this isn't so controversial after all.

Easily the worst of the core 8 (or 9, if you count Claire) characters, Kate is simultaneously poorly written and flatly reprehensible. Let's start off with the latter by listing a bunch of really shitty things that our "hero" does throughout the series:

• Routinely lies and deceives her friends to cover her ass
• Cuckolds Jack with Sawyer and Sawyer with Jack, homewrecks Jack's relationship with Juliet and attempts to do the same to Sawyer, breaks up with Jack when he's having a mental breakdown, general trollopness
• Gets a US Marshall killed for merely doing his job with no semblance of guilt or sympathy
• Marries a nice guy, then drugs him and runs away when he books their honeymoon (instead of just saying that she has a fear of flying or whatever)
• Steals Claire's baby to raise him as her own, despite being on trial facing life imprisonment
• Pretty much destroys everyone's life she touches more than anyone else sans Jack

So yeah, Kate absolutely sucks as a person. But looking at this even deeper, as many have already mentioned, Kate is also pitifully underwritten for someone we are supposed to be cheering on for six seasons. She serves as both a damsel in distress and a Mary Sue whenever the plot requires it (seriously, how/when did she become a fucking Krav Maga expert?). She is thrown into various romantic subplots as ways to build cheap tension and drama. And for whatever reason, she is the one sent on every expedition and important mission because I guess she is too empty of a character to just have sitting around talking to other people.

All of this, and Kate is still something like the #2 character in terms of screentime. Biscuit mentioned above that we are supposed to feel bad for her. But I am not sure that is the intention. I don't even know what the intention is...are we supposed to be rooting for her to finally leave the Island and be free at the end because she came to the Island as a captive? In either case, they utterly fail, as Kate is probably the least deserving of a happy ending out of anyone remaining on this list.

Kate sucks.

I've always felt like we should feel bad for her, like flashback scenes where her mom calls for help when she sees her.

The one terrible thing she did that always sticks with me is when she gets her one boyfriend killed because she refused to explain anything to him. Like these sort of things always seem manufactured for us to feel more bad for Kate like "Oh, look at this hard position she was put in with her life. She can't help this tragedy!"

At the very least, they never seem to call attention to her being a monster of a person which makes me buy into them wanting us to pity her more than anything.

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GameStonk posted...

Easily the worst of the core 8 (or 9, if you count Claire) characters

Claire didn't appear in season 5 at all, so I think it's fair to call it a core 8.

Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Hurley/Sayid/Jin/Sun/Locke are the only characters to appear, credited with the main cast, for all six seasons.

That being said, if we include Claire as core, then we ought to include Charlie as well. Even though he died halfway through the show, he was just as important and prominent as those nine while he was alive.

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Underleveled posted...

Claire didn't appear in season 5 at all, so I think it's fair to call it a core 8.

Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Hurley/Sayid/Jin/Sun/Locke are the only characters to appear, credited with the main cast, for all six seasons.

That being said, if we include Claire as core, then we ought to include Charlie as well. Even though he died halfway through the show, he was just as important and prominent as those nine while he was alive.

Regardless, Kate is worse than all of them by a whole lot!

My feelings on Kate are pretty mixed. She's obviously a shit-tier person, but I was invested enough in her arc for her to never really piss me off. Jack/Kate were also my ideal ship for each other, even though I wasn't especially rooting for any particular ship to get a happy ending other than Desmond/Penny. (only tagged for list purposes)

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GameStonk posted...

But then we get to Expos, perhaps one of the most pointless episodes in a season that was already dragging week after week. Their flashback is silly, uncompelling, and ultimately useless (other than a cute scene with Miles in season 6)--serving only to kill off these characters who were barely introduced. Truly one of the strangest decisions in a series of strange decisions, but thankfully it is limited to a select few episodes.

Expose is great imo! I know it's pretty divisive but I love how hard they committed to the ridiculousness of it. Looking back it's probably a bit too harsh on Nikki/Paulo, but they gave the fans what was demanded for sure.

Kate centric episodes always suck but I don't flat out hate her like many do, there's plenty of characters who are just awful people if you look at it from the outside lol. She is low tier though. Ana Lucia served her purpose, she's not good but as a darker mirror of Jack she works, and The Other 48 Days is a great episode. Ilana is a nothing person that really shows how uninterested Lost was in exploring new characters by the end of its run.

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andylt posted...

Ilana is a nothing person that really shows how uninterested Lost was in exploring new characters by the end of its run.

Yeah, they were far more interested in ruining the characters they were all interested in!

That said, I'm really happy that Lindelof and Cuse have gone on, taking a lot of lessons from Lost, to create more quality programs that I frankly have loved every one.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Yeah, they were far more interested in ruining the characters they were all interested in!

That said, I'm really happy that Lindelof and Cuse have gone on, taking a lot of lessons from Lost, to create more quality programs that I frankly have loved every one.

They also went on to ruin the Alien series!

i'm interested in seeing takes about some of the endgame stuff in lost - i still don't entirely know how i feel about it after all these years

with kate i would rate her higher but i'm not going to argue with the concept; the writers clearly didn't know what the hell to do with her as a character but continued to put her at the center of everything and as a result she ends up being incredibly unlikeable with an incomprehensibly disjointed storyline

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unlike ana-lucia, kate is unlikeable but not on purpose, so I understand the hate. she's meant to be a flawed person for sure, but the writers still want us to empathize with her. I mostly do through the first two seasons, but somewhere around season 3 she just becomes insufferable.

I still would place her higher due to sheer virtue of screen time as opposed to a nothing burger like claire

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