Poll of the Day > Dominion Voting Systems suing Guiliani for $1.3B

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BUMPED2002
01/25/21 8:44:12 AM
#1:


I guess it's all coming full circle now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/25/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-dominion-trump.html

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adjl
01/25/21 8:46:44 AM
#2:


Whoa whoa whoa.

You mean to tell me that when you repeatedly and publicly make claims that a product is unreliable and insecure without providing any evidence for those claims, the company that makes that product can sue you for trying to make them look bad? Whaaaaaat?

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LuciferSage
01/25/21 1:09:42 PM
#3:


Pretty sure Dominion is going to have a hard time demonstrating "Damages" given their contract for providing the voting machines is pretty airtight.

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Jen0125
01/25/21 1:14:20 PM
#4:


LuciferSage posted...
Pretty sure Dominion is going to have a hard time demonstrating "Damages" given their contract for providing the voting machines is pretty airtight.

It doesn't matter if they have airtight contracts. Defamation could prevent future contracts. They will opine those damages to their reputation through this and how it will affect their future earnings.

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shadowsword87
01/25/21 1:16:33 PM
#5:


LuciferSage posted...
Pretty sure Dominion is going to have a hard time demonstrating "Damages" given their contract for providing the voting machines is pretty airtight.

I didn't know you read their contract with state governments.
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adjl
01/25/21 1:25:10 PM
#6:


LuciferSage posted...
Pretty sure Dominion is going to have a hard time demonstrating "Damages" given their contract for providing the voting machines is pretty airtight.

Damaging their reputation may impair their ability to renew said contract when the time comes, though, or seek new contracts with new clients. They may already have seen some direct losses from less-airtight contracts.

Regardless of the specifics involved in that figure, though, the fact that Giuliani (among many others, though I understand singling him out as a figurehead) has committed defamation against them is pretty indisputable.

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Mead
01/25/21 1:29:39 PM
#7:


Hilarious that everyone on the right has suddenly shut up about dominion machines within the last few weeks

Finally some consequences for their lies


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BlackScythe0
01/25/21 1:37:45 PM
#8:


LuciferSage posted...
Pretty sure Dominion is going to have a hard time demonstrating "Damages" given their contract for providing the voting machines is pretty airtight.

I get you've demonstrated that you're completely out of touch with reality lately but I'm having a hard time seeing them failing this case. This lie that Giuliani played such a big part in resulted in the capital being stormed with people trying to assassinate our politicians, these people don't have the level of security the capitol did he has endangered their lives.

Legal commentators have said they think there is a decent chance this case makes it to court because of the depth of their grievance (Giuliani has literally put their lives in danger) these cases are normally settled out of court.

Like their filing includes the fact that Giuliani has never attempted to argue the conspiracy in court when he had the opportunity to this indicating he knows the statements to be a lie. They're going to go into discovery and get his emails and texts to make it even worse for him.

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LuciferSage
01/25/21 3:11:34 PM
#9:


BlackScythe0 posted...
I get you've demonstrated that you're completely out of touch with reality lately but I'm having a hard time seeing them failing this case. This lie that Giuliani played such a big part in resulted in the capital being stormed with people trying to assassinate our politicians, these people don't have the level of security the capitol did he has endangered their lives.

Except, that's not how courts work no matter how badly you want vengenge. The suit against Giuliani isn't about the "insurrection". It's about his alleged defamation against Dominion.

You don't rule on a case for kicking their dog if they're on trial for shoplifting.

And I'm the one that's completely out of touch with reality.

All this anger from the Radical Left can't be healthy...

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Joe_Biden
01/25/21 3:12:46 PM
#10:


he didn't say the suit was about the insurrection though.


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Jen0125
01/25/21 3:13:53 PM
#11:


My favorite part is how he ignored the reality of the matter while cherry picking something to get upset about lol

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LuciferSage
01/25/21 3:14:22 PM
#12:


Joe_Biden posted...
he didn't say the suit was about the insurrection though.

Did you even read the part I quoted?

No you didn't. But don't let that stop you from weighing in every time I post.

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Joe_Biden
01/25/21 3:15:24 PM
#13:


also i don't know why he put insurrection in quotes, as if rioters didn't storm the capitol with some trying to kill select politicians

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Joe_Biden
01/25/21 3:16:30 PM
#14:


LuciferSage posted...
Did you even read the part I quoted?

No you didn't. But don't let that stop you from weighing in every time I post.
yes?

now read what i said again, but slower.

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Jen0125
01/25/21 3:16:31 PM
#15:


And Dominion being linked to the insurrection by way of allowing voter fraud or not stopping voter fraud is definitely relevant to their reputation.

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LuciferSage
01/25/21 3:36:00 PM
#16:


Riots are the language of the unheard, unless they come from the Right, then it's an insurrection.

Trapping people in a building after weeks of "peaceful protest" and trying to burn them alive inside?

Let's hold a fundraiser.

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Jen0125
01/25/21 3:40:39 PM
#17:


LuciferSage posted...
Riots are the language of the unheard, unless they come from the Right, then it's an insurrection.

This is disingenuous at best but not surprising coming from you

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Joe_Biden
01/25/21 3:41:37 PM
#18:


LuciferSage posted...
Riots are the language of the unheard, unless they come from the Right, then it's an insurrection.

it's a tad different when it's a riot done specifically to overthrow the government

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Blightzkrieg
01/25/21 3:53:51 PM
#19:


The unheard in this case are the fascists

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adjl
01/25/21 4:43:39 PM
#20:


LuciferSage posted...
The suit against Giuliani isn't about the "insurrection". It's about his alleged defamation against Dominion.

And people being moved to insurrection on the basis of how badly Dominon allowed fraud to occur is pretty clear evidence that the public's opinion of Dominion (that's fun to say) has been damaged by the lies Giuliani (among others) has been spewing.

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BlackScythe0
01/25/21 6:00:48 PM
#21:


LuciferSage posted...
Except, that's not how courts work no matter how badly you want vengenge. The suit against Giuliani isn't about the "insurrection". It's about his alleged defamation against Dominion.

You don't rule on a case for kicking their dog if they're on trial for shoplifting.

And I'm the one that's completely out of touch with reality.

All this anger from the Radical Left can't be healthy...
Uh what?
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Muscles
01/25/21 6:11:54 PM
#22:


Joe_Biden posted...
it's a tad different when it's a riot done specifically to overthrow the government
Why is that a bad thing? All governments will need to be overthrown eventually (some are way overdue for a revolution too, coughrussiacough coughchinacough)

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Jen0125
01/25/21 6:13:30 PM
#23:


Always nice to see whiskey get blown the fuck out completely

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Jen0125
01/25/21 6:13:53 PM
#24:


Muscles posted...
Why is that a bad thing? All governments will need to be overthrown eventually (some are way overdue for a revolution too, coughrussiacough coughchinacough)

Maybe if it's for a good reason to benefit society but this was a fascist uprising

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LuciferSage
01/25/21 6:39:24 PM
#25:


adjl posted...
And people being moved to insurrection on the basis of how badly Dominon allowed fraud to occur is pretty clear evidence that the public's opinion of Dominion (that's fun to say) has been damaged by the lies Giuliani (among others) has been spewing.

That's going to be one hell of a stretch to prove in court. It's hardly A-B causation outlined in that argument.

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Mead
01/25/21 6:40:10 PM
#26:


Muscles posted...
Why is that a bad thing? All governments will need to be overthrown eventually (some are way overdue for a revolution too, coughrussiacough coughchinacough)

it only really works when the majority of the people support the group trying to overthrow the government though

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Zeus
01/25/21 6:53:20 PM
#27:


$1.3b? roflmao. And why did a company that provides election system go with an autocratic name that feels like they ripped it off some supervillain organization?

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Joe_Biden
01/25/21 7:19:18 PM
#28:


why did you go with the name of a gigantic misogynistic manwhore

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adjl
01/25/21 7:27:04 PM
#29:


LuciferSage posted...
That's going to be one hell of a stretch to prove in court. It's hardly A-B causation outlined in that argument.

You don't need to prove much of anything. It's common, easily observable knowledge that a significant number of people have bought into the election fraud lie, a lie which has included blaming Dominion's service for allowing the alleged fraud to take place. It's perfectly reasonable to presume that some of those people will end up making decisions that will influence Dominion's business interests moving forward. Even if we presume that absolutely nobody worldwide has been so duped that would be in a position to actually sign a contract with them (which is a stretch), the people in question are voters who have the power to influence who Dominion gets to sign contracts with moving forward, so there's still clear potential for damages there.

Is it conclusively $1.3b? Maybe, maybe not. But suits like this usually highball the damages number because it almost always gets negotiated down by the time it's settled, especially if it's settled out of court. The final number may yet change, but it's pretty indisputable that Giuliani et al have committed defamation.

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Zeus
01/25/21 7:28:29 PM
#30:


Joe_Biden posted...
why did you go with the name of a gigantic misogynistic manwhore

Joe_Biden posted...

Joe_Biden

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Jen0125
01/25/21 7:29:02 PM
#31:


I bet they settle out of court for millions. No way Rudy let's this go to trial.

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shadowsword87
01/25/21 7:29:53 PM
#32:


adjl posted...
You don't need to prove much of anything. It's common, easily observable knowledge that a significant number of people have bought into the election fraud lie, a lie which has included blaming Dominion's service for allowing the alleged fraud to take place. It's perfectly reasonable to presume that some of those people will end up making decisions that will influence Dominion's business interests moving forward. Even if we presume that absolutely nobody worldwide has been so duped that would be in a position to actually sign a contract with them (which is a stretch), the people in question are voters who have the power to influence who Dominion gets to sign contracts with moving forward, so there's still clear potential for damages there.

Is it conclusively $1.3b? Maybe, maybe not. But suits like this usually highball the damages number because it almost always gets negotiated down by the time it's settled, especially if it's settled out of court. The final number may yet change, but it's pretty indisputable that Giuliani et al have committed defamation.

Even if the people in charge don't believe it, there has got to be significant pressure from their constitutions to move brands, which they may do.
That's loss of income.
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#33
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Jen0125
01/25/21 7:32:07 PM
#34:


Zangulus posted...
They dont have to settle if they dont want to. Hes the defendant. Simply because he wouldnt want to let it go to trial doesnt mean he can absolutely stop it. I doubt he has the money to actually pay them what theyd want regardless.

He probably has personal injury insurance policies with limits in the millions of dollars. They'll be negotiating with an attorney paid for by the insurer using insurance funds. There's no way he doesn't have that insurance.

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Jen0125
01/25/21 7:32:56 PM
#35:


Hell, even I have personal injury insurance because I talk A LOT of shit on the internet and if someone sues me I want to be covered.

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#36
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Jen0125
01/25/21 7:35:09 PM
#37:


Zangulus posted...
Fair. That doesnt mean Dominion has to accept it though if they dont want to.

Dominion could press it and if they prevail they'll likely be able to recover attorney fees. But they'd need a judge or jury to believe they've proven their case with the preponderance of evidence. That's the threshold in civil court. It's a huge gamble. So if Rudy comes with $50m they may take it.

I am speaking from my experience in handling claims of this nature. I'm not an expert but I do have a little additional insight.

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Zeus
01/25/21 7:39:16 PM
#38:


shadowsword87 posted...
Even if the people in charge don't believe it, there has got to be significant pressure from their constitutions to move brands, which they may do.
That's loss of income.

But unless government and businesses stop using them, it's a pretty massive stretch to pretend that their business has actually been hurt by this. If the argument is "well, now we're not trusted with elections" yet government keeps hiring them, clearly they're still being trusted to run elections. And if the argument is "well, we MIGHT lose these contracts," then the court would tell them to come back when they did because then they'd have damages.

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shadowsword87
01/25/21 7:46:00 PM
#39:


Zeus posted...
But unless government and businesses stop using them, it's a pretty massive stretch to pretend that their business has actually been hurt by this

That really just depends on the document and where they're getting that claim from.
But just saying it's a frivolous lawsuit, or a silencing lawsuit, is just shitty.
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Raddest_Chad
01/25/21 10:24:58 PM
#40:


Jen0125 posted...
It doesn't matter if they have airtight contracts. Defamation could prevent future contracts. They will opine those damages to their reputation through this and how it will affect their future earnings.
This. And let's be honest, there are no worse lawyers than Rudy Giuliani right now and there's no way he's winning. Nobody worthwhile will take this case, and he's stupid enough to think he could probably win it on his own. It's going to be a cat ass trophy.
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Joe_Biden
01/26/21 12:48:23 AM
#41:


Zeus posted...
Joe_Biden
you didn't answer my question though

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BlackScythe0
01/26/21 12:49:09 AM
#42:


Joe_Biden posted...
you didn't answer my question though

It's like you're pretending to not know Zeus.
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Joe_Biden
01/26/21 12:50:10 AM
#43:


i'm making him answer his own question, because his question was fucking stupid

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Gaawa_chan
01/26/21 12:53:35 AM
#44:


The ghost of Hugo Chavez strikes again!

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adjl
01/26/21 1:55:54 PM
#45:


Zeus posted...
But unless government and businesses stop using them, it's a pretty massive stretch to pretend that their business has actually been hurt by this. If the argument is "well, now we're not trusted with elections" yet government keeps hiring them, clearly they're still being trusted to run elections. And if the argument is "well, we MIGHT lose these contracts," then the court would tell them to come back when they did because then they'd have damages.

All of which matters for assigning a dollar value to the damages, but none of which matters for determining whether or not Giuliani is guilty of defamation. He very clearly is.

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