Poll of the Day > GOP Sen. Rand Paul says that Biden's push for a $15 minimum wage reflects a 'hat

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BUMPED2002
01/24/21 4:23:34 AM
#1:


Yada yada yada! This has been the GOPs battle cry for decades in regards to minimum.

Way back in the 1970s McDonalds owner Ray Kroc called up his good pal Richard Nixon complaining about rumors that they were going to raise the minimum wage. Kroc told Nixon if it were raised, he would have to close stores and lay people off because he couldn't afford the hike.

The talk died down and it wasn't increased and Kroc promptly went out and paid something like $14M to buy the San Diego Padres baseball team the same guy who whined that the minimum wage being increased would force him to close his stores and lay people off. That's precious to me because he went from whining about he couldn't afford a minimum hike to shelling out $14M for a baseball team. People need to wake up and smell the coffee.

America's past and current brutal capitalistic system can be traced directly back to those slave plantations were it was born, bred and perfected.

Fast forward to the Civil War and the "end of slavery" and now these people who kept every cent they ever made (remember they weren't paying any taxes back then) were going to have to pay people to work for them when before during slavery they had people who worked for free so they weren't thrilled about the idea of having to pay someone now.

What did they do? They decided to keep wages as low as they could get away with paying and that's essentially the mindset of employers even today some 156 years after slavery ended so this crap Rand Paul is spewing has a long and storied history in America.

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Kimbos_Egg
01/24/21 4:27:18 AM
#2:


ok

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Lokarin
01/24/21 4:27:38 AM
#3:


There are legitimate arguments both for and against minimum wage... but like all non-sciences (like economics), the only way to see what happens is to actually do it.

For example, lets pick a loser state at random.... ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh hh h h h h h, Vermont. Vermont shall now have a Minimum Wage of $17.50 (or whatever +$10 is)

See what happens.

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#4
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BUMPED2002
01/24/21 4:31:39 AM
#5:


Kimbos_Egg posted...
ok
You are welcome and I know some people in America have an issue coming to terms with the country's origins but what I posted is all true and it only affected non Whites so there is that and I'm white so.

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Kimbos_Egg
01/24/21 4:39:56 AM
#6:


i'm not american

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Joe_Biden
01/24/21 5:07:53 AM
#7:


...a hat?

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#8
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Lokarin
01/24/21 6:28:27 AM
#9:


Zangulus posted...
Reflects a... what?

Zangulus posted...
Still waiting for what the end of the topic title was supposed to be.


According to reddit, the title of the article is:

"Sen. Rand Paul says Biden's push for raising minimum wage shows he hates Black teenagers (usatoday.com)"

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Judgmenl
01/24/21 6:57:02 AM
#10:


Kimbos_Egg posted...
ok


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Mead
01/24/21 8:13:49 AM
#11:


we cant allow this kind of hat reflection

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captpackrat
01/25/21 10:00:41 PM
#12:




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Blightzkrieg
01/25/21 10:30:16 PM
#13:


A minimum wage would be theoretically unnecessary if workers were able to fairly bargain for their labour, but they can't currently do that.

If workers aren't being paid enough to survive, the burden is going onto other taxpayers, either directly or indirectly.

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Mead
01/25/21 10:30:54 PM
#14:


Just pass UBI already

It is time

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Raddest_Chad
01/25/21 10:32:06 PM
#15:


Minimum wage needs to be rebranded as living wage. "The living wage in this state is (blank)" sounds a lot better is basically makes any dissent paint the contesting parties in a really negative light. "You don't want people to have a living wage? Fuck you, dickwipe!"
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RoboXgp89
01/25/21 11:03:11 PM
#16:


fulltime hours need to be reduced for everyone, give everyone a day off every other week
vacation and sick days need to be added
the people who make the least money can't even get sick or go on vacation or else they lose a paycheck

making a number bigger on paper isn't freedom
it doesn't actually do anything
doesn't make your life easier
jus inflation

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Zareth
01/25/21 11:06:44 PM
#17:


When's that wealth gonna trickle down? been waiting for over 30 years.

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Mead
01/25/21 11:14:45 PM
#18:


Minimum wage increases do not cause or increase inflation. Its a total myth with no evidence behind it.

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DeltaBladeX
01/25/21 11:23:53 PM
#19:


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RoboXgp89
01/25/21 11:39:06 PM
#20:


Mead posted...
Minimum wage increases do not cause or increase inflation. Its a total myth with no evidence behind it.

meals at fast food places went from 5 bucks to 11 bucks
you're not making any sense...
most landlords/renters charge like 75% of min wage for a months rent too

instead of raising prices on everything
we could cut hours and
create more jobs
making a random X amount of money when you work the same amount of hours at 'min wage'
isnt' going to bring anyone closer to retirement

if things weren't so expensive in the first place we wouldn't have people like my dad working at 76

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Gaawa_chan
01/26/21 12:59:21 AM
#21:


*shrug* I generally agree with this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV1jTc0MtWc

The minimum wage was supposed to adjust for inflation and if it did it would be over 20$, not 15$.

Also, high rent costs (and the housing market in general) are a separate issue that can be addressed in other ways.

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Mead
01/26/21 1:10:41 AM
#22:


RoboXgp89 posted...
meals at fast food places went from 5 bucks to 11 bucks
you're not making any sense...

that isnt because of minimum wage though, that reflects regularly increasing price fluctuations of things like food ingredients, transportation, and real estate

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Conner4REAL
01/26/21 1:20:16 AM
#23:


The biggest problem with all of the arguments for or against raising minimum wage is that they all over generalize a very complex action (raising the minimum wage) which will affect different industries in vastly different ways, AND different businesses in different ways.

for example- opposition to minimum wage often cites that raising it will cost jobs because employers will automate. That is true and untrue (and this is as guilty of being a generalization as the above but its at least slightly less so), the truth is that it depends on the industry. AND the business and public perception of the business and if it is even going to be affected by that and many more. First you have the cost for automation. How much how long how long to recoup the cost and the cost of upkeep.
I can toss in more and more factors but the simple truth is that this cost will be diff for every industry and there will be a point where it is cost prohibitive for smaller businesses to do so but for larger ones to be able to. Then there is also the public relations angle? Will the public care? Will it matter? If you are selling or servicing to other companies and the general public has never heard of you then you are in a diff position than a store where people giving heavy foot traffic.

you can do that with every argument for or against. And I have not even fleshed out the above piece. Just mentioned enough to show that any argument that generalizes what effect minimum wage increases will have on a general one size fits all level is not going to be accurate because its over broad.

i dont have any answers but I think we arent asking the right questions because we arent digging deep enough into the effects and maybe trying to solve a complex issue with diff effects with an oversimplified solution.

maybe create certain tax incentives if the lowest paid employees pay rates including benefits are meeting certain criteria. And that rate set would be regional. The framework set by the state but the calculation method would be based on the numbers of an area.

i dont know thats an idea I pulled out of my ass while typing this as an example. But its something more than trying to solve a debate with an oversimplified argument to a complex policy that will have a vastly different effect on many people and many industries. Will it have an effect on a state where the minimum wage is 14.50? Probably not. Would a state with a significantly lower standard of living see Workers having a bigger boost with 15? Of course.
i just think people need to start talking about this with real analysis.

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Mead
01/26/21 1:24:27 AM
#24:


Universal Basic Income

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Conner4REAL
01/26/21 1:29:00 AM
#25:


So long as my tax dollars dont go to your income fine with me.

figure out how to pay for it without socking it to the rest of society and Im fine with that.

creating a system that incentivizes employers to pay people in the workforce at the lowest levels More is one thing. you are giving someone compensation in exchange for the value of their labor.

Giving people something for nothing is another. Maybe if you had to do a certain number of hours of community service or something a week to be eligible for ubi then thats fine.

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Mead
01/26/21 1:40:09 AM
#26:


Conner4REAL posted...
Maybe if you had to do a certain number of hours of community service or something a week to be eligible for ubi then thats fine.

Then it isnt UBI.

Universal basic income is universal. It goes to all citizens. Even the lazy lay abouts. If youre concerned about your tax dollars then you should be all for UBI, cause its your best bet at getting some of it back in your hands.

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TaKun782
01/26/21 1:53:15 AM
#27:


This just goes to show that corporations can rule the world right along with the dirty politicians as well. Not saying all are bad...but yes. I do agree that we definitely need a wage increase! It's hard as fuck trying to survive in minimum wage these days.
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RoboXgp89
01/26/21 3:27:47 AM
#28:


TaKun782 posted...
This just goes to show that corporations can rule the world right along with the dirty politicians as well. Not saying all are bad...but yes. I do agree that we definitely need a wage increase! It's hard as fuck trying to survive in minimum wage these days.

so then force everyone to work under 35 hours a week
a wage increase will not yield a positive return in lifestyle changes

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Mead
01/26/21 3:30:18 AM
#29:


RoboXgp89 posted...
so then force everyone to work under 35 hours a week
a wage increase will not yield a positive return in lifestyle changes

but forcing people to work less and make less money would? How is that gonna help anyone struggling pay their bills?

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Xfma100
01/26/21 4:01:53 AM
#30:


TaKun782 posted...
This just goes to show that corporations can rule the world right along with the dirty politicians as well. Not saying all are bad...but yes. I do agree that we definitely need a wage increase! It's hard as fuck trying to survive in minimum wage these days.

More like impossible without any assistance.
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Unbridled9
01/26/21 4:41:00 AM
#31:


The problem isn't the minimum wage. The problem is the inability to get jobs above the minimum wage, promotions, and other such things. We're in a situation in which people not only can't support a family on one income, but frequently need to work 2 or more jobs across both parents to support a family with neither job offering much in the way of either. If you need $30/hr to support a family but your boss laughs whenever you suggest you get a $0.05 raise then either both parents need a job or one has to work two, possibly more, jobs because there's no hope of upwards progression.

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RoboXgp89
01/26/21 2:28:31 PM
#32:


you'll never see a return on investment raising min wage
you'd be better off jus making everyone work less hours
so everything cost a little less

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Mead
01/26/21 2:29:29 PM
#33:


RoboXgp89 posted...
you'll never see a return on investment raising min wage
you'd be better off jus making everyone work less hours
so everything cost a little less

why would things cost less

prices dont go down when unemployment is high

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Blightzkrieg
01/26/21 2:37:38 PM
#34:


Mead posted...
why would things cost less

prices dont go down when unemployment is high
Because these idiots believe that 100% of what they pay to buy something goes to the salary of minimum wage employees

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RoboXgp89
01/26/21 2:45:47 PM
#35:


ok as opposed to working the same amount of hours
and houses costing twice as much?

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Blightzkrieg
01/26/21 2:56:35 PM
#36:


If laborers work half as many hours they would be able to service half as many customers or generate half as much product. You'd be more likely to see the price of everything double. Even that's an obvious oversimplification though.

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ReturnOfFa
01/26/21 3:38:07 PM
#37:


I'd probably be with you, but the topic title makes my head hurt.

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GastroFan
01/26/21 5:15:47 PM
#38:


Unbridled9 posted...
The problem isn't the minimum wage. The problem is the inability to get jobs above the minimum wage, promotions, and other such things. We're in a situation in which people not only can't support a family on one income, but frequently need to work 2 or more jobs across both parents to support a family with neither job offering much in the way of either. If you need $30/hr to support a family but your boss laughs whenever you suggest you get a $0.05 raise then either both parents need a job or one has to work two, possibly more, jobs because there's no hope of upwards progression.

No the problem is that, for too long, corporate America has gotten away with shafting workers in order to make not some 'profit' but 'obscene' profits. Someone needs to stand up for the workers which is what the National Labor Relations Board, Occupational Safety and Health (OSHA) and other governmental agencies used to do before they were gutted, alongside the unions, of course.
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adjl
01/26/21 5:53:13 PM
#39:


Conner4REAL posted...
So long as my tax dollars dont go to your income fine with me.

They already do.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

Your taxes are already paying to keep workers alive while they work jobs that pay sub-living wages. You are subsidizing Walmart so they don't have to pay their workers enough to survive.

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Arcturusisnow
01/26/21 6:12:03 PM
#40:


Conner4REAL posted...
So long as my tax dollars dont go to your income fine with me.

figure out how to pay for it without socking it to the rest of society and Im fine with that.

creating a system that incentivizes employers to pay people in the workforce at the lowest levels More is one thing. you are giving someone compensation in exchange for the value of their labor.

Giving people something for nothing is another. Maybe if you had to do a certain number of hours of community service or something a week to be eligible for ubi then thats fine.
There is no way you can incentivize billionaires to part with any of their money because they are human and human nature is to be a greedy, dipshit, asshole that couldn't give two fucks about your fellow man. So we have to force it or won't get done at all.
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adjl
01/26/21 6:35:36 PM
#41:


Arcturusisnow posted...
There is no way you can incentivize billionaires to part with any of their money because they are human and human nature is to be a greedy, dips***, a****** that couldn't give two f***s about your fellow man.

It's not even necessarily that humans are inherently greedy and evil, it's that one generally can't become a billionaire without being that greedy. Those who are billionaires are only billionaires because they capitalized on their greed.

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