Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 358: Funeral Parler

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean, I also thought all along it was very obvious the $2k checks were an upgrade to the $600, not $2600 total.

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https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-rashida-tlaib-say-legislation-ready-after-trump-pelosi-call-2000-stimulus-check-1556837

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1341572295769415682

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I literally never thought it was $600+$2000, and didn't realize anybody ever thought that. They were talking about upgrading to $2000 before people got their checks.

Anybody claiming this is a backdown is just looking for something to be mad about.

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Yeah, it was only ever "Get everyone $2,000 checks!" when they hadn't passed the $600 checks. Once they did that, it became "Up that by $1,400 to get it to $2,000!"

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I say this because the Democratic Party ran on "We'll get you $2000 checks" after the $600 checks, and just typing "Biden 2000 checks" into google, literally everything the campaign or media is reporting on specifically says the phrase "$2000 checks", which is not "We'll get you up to 2000 including the 600 Trump gave you".

well that last line is just too many words to be a good slogan

honestly I never thought they were saying 2000 on top of the 600
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Suprak the Stud posted...

https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-rashida-tlaib-say-legislation-ready-after-trump-pelosi-call-2000-stimulus-check-1556837

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1341572295769415682

And then the $600 checks went out the door.

If the promise is "we'll get you to $2000", then stop saying "We're gonna send you $2000 checks".

I think it's a Democrat brain thing, because nobody I know heard "$2000 checks" AFTER receiving their $600 and thought it meant $1400.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Anybody claiming this is a backdown is just looking for something to be mad about.

Your elected representatives starting at the minimum is always something to be mad about, I hope you learn that one day.

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I also always knew it was 1400+600 when they talked about $2000 checks post $600 going out.

Everyone I have ever talked to about it knew that, including Republicans on my Facebook.

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This is the strangest GOTCHA I've ever seen and I don't think anyone honestly believed it was 2.6k total if they were paying attention.

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It's not a gotcha, don't know why you guys always frame it like that, just a disappointment.

Anyway, the end.

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All the talk of $2000 was definitely before and instead of the second stimulus of $600 was passed. Hard to stop saying something that they haven't been saying at all.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This reply to the original tweet I shared sums it up:

https://twitter.com/mhodson520/status/1349759239624028162?s=20

.

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I also took it to mean "rather than 600, you should have got 2000 so we'll get you the remaining 1400"

But i'm also getting sick of the damn stimulus because that's all I get calls about for 8 hours a day right now. Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to put the IRS in charge of issuing these payments, and who thought it would be a good idea to have the second stimulus ALSO be part of the 2020 taxes when we are going to start accepting 2020 returns in less than a month so it gives us actually no time at all to resolve EIP#2 issues before they become superseded by the 2020 returns coming in, some of which will contain claims for unreceived stimulus issues.

It's a F***ing nightmare.

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No one thought it was $600 + $2000.

They tried for $2000, lost.

The $600 went out the door, Trump said he wanted $2000.

They tried to amend the bill to replace the words $600 with $2000, lost.

But they've always been pretty clear that they wanted $2000 from the rip and have just been trying to get to there.

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I mean, don't get me wrong...there's no reason why they COULDN'T give us 2k in ADDITION to the 600. All of these numbers are arbitrary, and there's no reason why couldn't go even higher if they really want to inject funds into people's pockets and jumpstart the economy. But just say THAT, rather than trying to paint it as "The Democrats already going back on their promise". That's all.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

It's not a gotcha, don't know why you guys always frame it like that, just a disappointment.

Anyway, the end.

We don't have to frame anything you say. You start something full of vitriol, like 5-10 people immediately disagree with you, and then you act like what you were saying was completely milquetoast than what you actually said and literally unilaterally claim the discussion to be over because you're tired of hearing how wrong we think you are.
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I think arguing over the terminology of if this is really a $2000 check or if really this is Dems stiffing people is equally, as Tony puts it, "Democrat brain."

It doesn't fucking matter. However much the January check is for, they still need to give more aid.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I think arguing over the terminology of if this is really a $2000 check or if really this is Dems stiffing people is equally, as Tony puts it, "Democrat brain."

It doesn't fucking matter. However much the January check is for, they still need to give more aid.

"They should give more aid" and "Biden is backing down from what he said" are two very different things. One is an opinion, the other is a blatant falsehood.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Your elected representatives starting at the minimum is always something to be mad about, I hope you learn that one day.

This is literally someone claiming the Democrats were lying when they weren't. It's no better than than something a MAGA would say to claim the Democrats are cheats.

You're mad about this because you want to be mad at the Democrats about something because you're still salty about Bernie. As someone who was also salty about Bernie, it's time to stop. That's not where we're at right now.

There's plenty of shit to be mad at Democrats about without having to make up fake garbage.

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kevwaffles posted...

We don't have to frame anything you say. You start something full of vitriol, like 5-10 people immediately disagree with you, and then you act like what you were saying was completely milquetoast than what you actually said and literally unilaterally claim the discussion to be over because you're tired of hearing how wrong we think you are.

Well the original post was actually about Democrats starting at the bare minimum once again, which IS extremely milquetoast.

Inviso posted...

I mean, don't get me wrong...there's no reason why they COULDN'T give us 2k in ADDITION to the 600. All of these numbers are arbitrary, and there's no reason why couldn't go even higher if they really want to inject funds into people's pockets and jumpstart the economy. But just say THAT, rather than trying to paint it as "The Democrats already going back on their promise". That's all.

It really doesn't need to be this complicated.

I've even posted this tweet twice that says literally:

https://twitter.com/mhodson520/status/1349759239624028162?s=20

It's not a LIE, it's very stupid.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

This is literally someone claiming the Democrats were lying when they weren't. It's no better than than something a MAGA would say to claim the Democrats are cheats.

You're mad about this because you want to be mad at the Democrats about something because you're still salty about Bernie. As someone who was also salty about Bernie, it's time to stop. That's not where we're at right now.

This is such an off-base and a pointless comment it's ridiculous.

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kevwaffles posted...

"They should give more aid" and "Biden is backing down from what he said" are two very different things. One is an opinion, the other is a blatant falsehood.

It's not really a falsehood so much as it is getting so mad at the semantic game that you continue to play it. "Biden is backing down" is not really the point of the frustration.

Either way what I'm trying to say here is that this is wasted energy. The original stimulus should have been 2k, the Dems are doing that slowly, everyone needs to move on to the next thing

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

I also took it to mean "rather than 600, you should have got 2000 so we'll get you the remaining 1400"

But i'm also getting sick of the damn stimulus because that's all I get calls about for 8 hours a day right now. Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to put the IRS in charge of issuing these payments, and who thought it would be a good idea to have the second stimulus ALSO be part of the 2020 taxes when we are going to start accepting 2020 returns in less than a month so it gives us actually no time at all to resolve EIP#2 issues before they become superseded by the 2020 returns coming in, some of which will contain claims for unreceived stimulus issues.

It's a F***ing nightmare.

I never got the first stimulus despite being eligible for it and repeatedly contacting them to ask about its status

Cough up my money FD I know you're hiding it under your desk!!

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KamikazePotato posted...

I never got the first stimulus despite being eligible for it and repeatedly contacting them to ask about its status

Does it show it having been issued if you check "Get My Payment" on irs.gov?

Did you file taxes in 2019 and 2018?

Did anyone claim you as a dependent for either year?

Do you owe child support?

Are you married to someone who owes child support?

Also if you were genuinely eligible and did not receive it you'll be able to claim it as a credit on the 2020 taxes when you file so you can get it as a refund instead.

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Tony, your initial post says "very cool" just after the tweet. Your reply after one other person responded covers in great detail why you think it's a lie.

Don't act shocked when people respond to the things you literally say.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Either way what I'm trying to say here is that this is wasted energy. The original stimulus should have been 2k, the Dems are doing that slowly, everyone needs to move on to the next thing

This. If the only problem we had right now was a bad economy, fighting for even larger checks might be a good idea. Unfortunately, there are tons of other things that need fixed.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

It's not really a falsehood so much as it is getting so mad at the semantic game that you continue to play it. "Biden is backing down" is not really the point of the frustration.

Either way what I'm trying to say here is that this is wasted energy. The original stimulus should have been 2k, the Dems are doing that slowly, everyone needs to move on to the next thing

The frustrating thing in my eyes is the Democratic framing that we needed an upgrade to the last stimulus to begin with, rather than just "more stimulus".

Saying "nobody expected $2000 + $600" says that you think there shouldn't be any more stimulus at all.

You're damn right I think we should be getting $2000 this time, I think we should be getting that much every month, and far more than that to makeup for the months passed!

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Also if you were genuinely eligible and did not receive it you'll be able to claim it as a credit on the 2020 taxes when you file so you can get it as a refund instead.

This part specifically is why EIP#2 should have been thrown forward to the 2021 taxes, because there simply isn't enough time to sort out lingering issues before people are going to be filing for 2020.

It was fine for EIP#1 to be part of 2020, because it was issued back in April/May for most people and that that allowed like 7 months for us to troubleshoot and resolve systemic problems that prevented people from receiving it. But to issue payments on January 4th/6th for most people and then have a TWO WEEK* window to resolve issues? It's madness. If they had just punted it into 2021 taxes it would give us all year to amended EIP#2 to increase the funds, or to troubleshoot problems with people receiving it. But just because it was passed/signed the last week of 2020 here we are.


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kevwaffles posted...

Tony, your initial post says "very cool" just after the tweet. Your reply after one other person responded covers in great detail why you think it's a lie.

Don't act shocked when people respond to the things you literally say.

It also LITERALLY includes the tweet I JUST referenced for the third time!

If you want to respond to the things I say, read everything in my post or don't bother responding.

It's the kind of move designed to get zero pinnochios and maximum frustration, the Democratic special.

I'm frustrated over the amount and the strategy of it all, and you are literally reducing it down to "Tony is calling Joe a liar!!"

So tl;dr, yes when you guys only read half of my post and decide to reduce it to "mad about Bernie", I don't want to continue the discussion anymore. You guys would rather play defense for some reason instead of just having a discussion. It's so frustrating.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Does it show it having been issued if you check "Get My Payment" on irs.gov?

Did you file taxes in 2019 and 2018?

Did anyone claim you as a dependent for either year?

Do you owe child support?

Are you married to someone who owes child support?

Also if you were genuinely eligible and did not receive it you'll be able to claim it as a credit on the 2020 taxes when you file so you can get it as a refund instead.

No, Yes, No, No, No - already been down this road trust me! Just gonna claim it as a credit at this point, and I don't super blame anyone for not getting it to me considering how fucked government agencies are right now.

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Count me in as someone who always assumed the $2000 was an upgrade from the $600. Had no idea anyone considered it to be anything else.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The frustrating thing in my eyes is the Democratic framing that we needed an upgrade to the last stimulus to begin with, rather than just "more stimulus".

Saying "nobody expected $2000 + $600" says that you think there shouldn't be any more stimulus at all.

You're damn right I think we should be getting $2000 this time, I think we should be getting that much every month, and far more than that to makeup for the months passed!

Rest assured that Biden opposes printing and handing out that much money. I think he's made himself perfectly clear on this point.

KamikazePotato posted...

No, Yes, No, No, No - already been down this road trust me! Just gonna claim it as a credit at this point, and I don't super blame anyone for not getting it to me considering how fucked government agencies are right now.

On irs.gov does it say your information doesn't match or does it pull up the payment status page and just say "Not Available" for both payments?

When were your 2019 taxes filed?

Electronically or by mail?

Did you receive a fund?

If you were charged a fee to file was it paid up front or taken out of the refund?

.

But yeah your situation sounds fairly unique. I've only seen a handful of cases where there wasn't some situation that directly and clearly explains the delay. Usually from people who didn't file taxes that they thought they did, so we didn't have information on file for the right years to generate a stimulus. Or someone who didn't realize they were being claimed as a dependent by someone else. But it seems like you might actually fall into the "if all else fails and nothing makes sense, just claim it on 2020" bucket.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

It also LITERALLY includes the tweet I JUST referenced for the third time!

If you want to respond to the things I say, read everything in my post or don't bother responding.

You include a tweet that doesn't say the exact words you said yourself so we shouldn't disagree with the words you said yourself? You might as well just stop expressing your own thoughts and stick to pasting links if that's the level of discussion you want us to give you.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I literally never thought it was $600+$2000, and didn't realize anybody ever thought that. They were talking about upgrading to $2000 before people got their checks.

Anybody claiming this is a backdown is just looking for something to be mad about.

Cough

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kevwaffles posted...

You include a tweet that doesn't say the exact words you said yourself so we shouldn't disagree with the words you said yourself? You might as well just stop expressing your own thoughts and stick to pasting links if that's the level of discussion you want us to give you.

The words I said myself literally referenced the tweet and said "This sums it up", so yes, that's my bad for assuming people can read words AND tweets and consider them together.


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Tony, you really don't have a lot of leg to stand on when over the last 9 months, without any exaggeration, at least 4/5 posts you've made in this topic series are you shitting on Dems or responding to people responding to you for shitting on Dems.

Sometimes this is a grievance you're letting out, or poking fun lightly, but at the end of the day it's what the posts are. Even neck deep in the worst of the election season, pre and post, it was still almost all anti-Dem posts. There was a point where you were still making posts about Biden going senile or touching peoples hair.

There's not a lot of reason to give benefit of the doubt here. I'm honestly not going to be surprised if you flip to R over the next 2 years just out of spite.

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Just shows how bizarre and tribalistic your fucking beliefs are that you think I'm even capable of flipping R.

The Republicans hate me more than they hate you, don't be stupid.

I focus more attention on Dems because it's Dems jobs to focus on the GOP. If no one goes after the Dems, then you might get confused and think they're good enough.

You wanna talk about "not a lot of reason to give benefit of the doubt", I have zero reason to trust the opinion of a person who sees my beliefs and thinks I could somehow be a Republican.

You are literally speaking nonsense and are incredibly ate up.

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https://twitter.com/business/status/1349209320408428545?s=20

Me, mad at Joe Biden for wanting to work with Republicans.

@UshiromiyaEva : "Tony is gonna be a Republican."

Go on, tell me you're ok with this.

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Try and reach a deal first, and if it doesn't work then push it through.

Makes the Rs look shittier if they don't play ball, and the Dems will be able to get whatever they want through either way even if they don't.

Seems like a perfect opportunity to lower Republican approval ratings and get checks out at the same time, or they Rs do go through with it and everyone gets the money regardless.

I will admit that having Manchin in play makes this a bit of a shittier situation.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/business/status/1349209320408428545?s=20

Me, mad at Joe Biden for wanting to work with Republicans.

@UshiromiyaEva : "Tony is gonna be a Republican."

Go on, tell me you're ok with this.

Do you know how hard it is to ram a bill through Congress without the other party when they control exactly half of the seats in the Senate and about 49% of the seats in the House? At best, you are going to get a not very good bill loaded up with pork barrel spending and pet projects for a handful of conservative/moderate Democratic senators.

Remember when Republicans were trying to pass legislation in 2017 with zero Dem support? It took a whole year for them to pass one bill, and their announced top priority never passed at all. And that was with 52 senators rather than 50. And with Mitch running the Senate like his personal club.

If Biden actually wants to get stuff passed, and he does, working with Republicans is the way to do it. He has a unique opportunity here because Republicans only care about power and right now they don't have any for the next 2 years if hardball continues, so it's better to get on board Team Biden.

But, I reiterate, the real issue here is that you and Biden have substantive disagreements on policy, not that you have issues with his negotiation strategy. He wouldn't pass most of what you want even if he had dictatorial powers, because he doesn't think it's good policy.


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The way I see it, starting at lets do a bipartisanship is starting at giving the GOP a pass for Trump.

Dems just won the Senate and the Presidency while holding the house. I think they should do what they want and invite Republicans to come closer to them on the Left, but hey! This is just a future Republicans point of view.

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Biden is going to try and paint it on the Republicans for not a new relief deal instead of admitting he was just promising money to win an election that he never planned on giving away.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The words I said myself literally referenced the tweet and said "This sums it up", so yes, that's my bad for assuming people can read words AND tweets and consider them together.

A summation by definition doesn't change the content of anything you said before it. So, if anything, in the best case for you it's not a proper summation for what you said because it said something totally different, but that still in no way changes anything you said.

More accurately, though, it's not like it's saying something terribly different from what you said. The difference is that it only implies an outright lie by claiming a flaw in what the actual situation always was, as opposed to directly stating it's a lie like you and the opening source saying "looks like Biden is breaking his promise of $2000 checks".

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The way I see it, starting at lets do a bipartisanship is starting at giving the GOP a pass for Trump.

Dems just won the Senate and the Presidency while holding the house. I think they should do what they want and invite Republicans to come closer to them on the Left,

However stupid that series of tweets was, i do agree with Tony here.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I think it's a Democrat brain thing, because nobody I know heard "$2000 checks" AFTER receiving their $600 and thought it meant $1400.

What? Everyone thought that. 600+1400 = 2000

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Tony, if Bernie had just won the presidency, do you think he wouldn't even attempt an olive branch of any sort?

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You can't just start shutting out the Republicans entirely, or you're just going to make the vitriol even worse next time when all those dumbasses feel justified. We're talking about people who's lives could improve in every way imaginable over the next four years and they will still claim Biden is the devil.

I literally think Republicans should be paying literal, actual reperations to Democrats over the last 4 years of horror, but you've gotta let your head at least have some sway over your heart.

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I don't think tony realizes how recently the $600 was passed and issued and seems to think there were these months-like conversations about $2000 after the $600.

It was passed on December 27th.
It started being direct deposit on January 4th.

It was being discussed for MONTHs prior to those dates, with one side saying $2000 and the other side saying $0 and then eventually the compromise of $600 was reached.
And the side saying $2000 made attempts to amended the $600 amount to $2000 prior to it's release.

So where on earth does this "democrats keep talking about $2000 after the $600 like it's a brand new thing" come from?

Basically Tony doesn't have a proper perception of the passage of time.

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The Dems big plan is always hey lets try kissing the Republicans ass, maybe theyll actually let us pass something! and then the Dems pamper their bottom and they still refuse but Dems are like dont worry we have a plan and it involves puckering my lips even more...

Peace___Frog posted...

However stupid that series of tweets was, i do agree with Tony here.

I don't think anyone disagrees with THIS sentiment. It's just that the starting point of painting the Dems as willfully malicious ("They're breaking their promise of $2000 checks!") is far worse than simply "The Dems aren't pushing as hard as they should because they're bad at politics." It's incompetence versus open malice, and though both are bad, open malice makes it much easier to say "They're no better then the malicious Republicans!", which is how we get a situation where one party feels emboldened enough to follow a blustering conman into storming the U.S. Capitol. One side is incompetent and the other side is brazenly evil. While that sucks, as long as we keep trying to equate incompetence as equal to (or at least CLOSE to) evil, it's only going to continue installing evil in-power, making it more difficult for the incompetent party to ever improve to competent levels.

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Biden remembers the 90s, and he wants to be Bill Clinton part 2. An enormously successful Democratic President who governed as a moderate Republican.

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