Poll of the Day > It is time we, as a forum, confront the single most divisive issue around!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Who do you support for starter pokemon 2024? Do you support the noble Charmander and it's dreams of becoming both flying and fire? Squirtle's insistence on water power? Or Bulbasaur's controversial duel-typing into poison? Or waste your vote and pick Pikachu and his policy of Electric Typing to the people?

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Squirtle is my favorite but Pikachu was my first starter (and my Smash main lol)

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Metalsonic66 posted...

Squirtle is my favorite but Pikachu was my first starter (and my Smash main lol)

Squirtle has been caught using hydro pump on his opponents though. Can you seriously support a starter that engages in such activities?

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Unbridled9 posted...

Squirtle has been caught using hydro pump on his opponents though. Can you seriously support a starter that engages in such activities?

I like to get a hydro pump to the face personally

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Squirtle is objectively the best starter

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Bulbasaur runs on a campaign of helping the poor, low level individuals get an equal playing field by handling the first two gyms with ease so they can get on a more equal footing middle-game

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will always have a spot in my heart for Charizard, but Bulbasaur for the win!!

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Charizard is objectively the coolest.

Team Bulbasaur.

https://i.imgur.com/O7k9Y3p.jpg

BlackScythe0 posted...

Charizard is objectively the coolest.

That's not even an option. Get out of here with your trolling.

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Lokarin posted...

Bulbasaur runs on a campaign of helping the poor, low level individuals get an equal playing field by handling the first two gyms with ease so they can get on a more equal footing middle-game

But he had to duel-type into poison giving him a crippling weakness to psychic types and he seriously falls off late game. He's lying to you offering you a smoother early game while hiding the inevitable downside.

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Unbridled9 posted...

But he had to duel-type into poison giving him a crippling weakness to psychic types and he seriously falls off late game. He's lying to you offering you a smoother early game while hiding the inevitable downside.

An equitable early game means you can catch a larger variety of other pokemon to increase your opportunities, you don't need to rely on Bulbasaur forever, you become independent as you level up

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Last time I played first gen I used persian to solo everything. It's pretty strong due to the unique crit mechanics.

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funkyfritter posted...

Last time I played first gen I used persian to solo everything. It's pretty strong due to the unique crit mechanics.

Yeah I did a Meowth solo run recently. Never evolved it. Was shockingly easy.

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Lokarin posted...

An equitable early game means you can catch a larger variety of other pokemon to increase your opportunities, you don't need to rely on Bulbasaur forever, you become independent as you level up

Man Pokemon is so deep

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Unbridled9 posted...

Do you support the noble Charmander and it's dreams of becoming both flying and fire?

I would argue it dreams of becoming a Dragon.

Unbridled9 posted...

Squirtle's insistence on water power?

Same way Blastoise would like to be Water/Steel.

Unbridled9 posted...

Or Bulbasaur's controversial duel-typing into poison?

In Gen 1, it was meh yeah, but Poison has gotten a lot of good moves over the years and the Special/Physical split also greatly helped it.


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Lokarin posted...

An equitable early game means you can catch a larger variety of other pokemon to increase your opportunities, you don't need to rely on Bulbasaur forever, you become independent as you level up

That means you're relying on a diverse variety of pokemon though. Clearly you should be selecting a team of dedicated elites since your roster is capped at 6. Technically fewer if you discount the HM slaves. Charmander's great offensive typing makes him a great choice for such a team and he promises to be immune to the environmental impact of earthquakes due to flying!

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Unbridled9 posted...

That means you're relying on a diverse variety of pokemon though. Clearly you should be selecting a team of dedicated elites since your roster is capped at 6. Technically fewer if you discount the HM slaves. Charmander's great offensive typing makes him a great choice for such a team and he promises to be immune to the environmental impact of earthquakes due to flying!

Not to ad hom, but slavery is a crutch - you falsely believe that a third of your party must prop up the other 2/3s, weakening the team as a whole.

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Realistically you want 3 Pokemon that you actually use, 1 for back up in case things go really really wrong, and 2 for HMs.

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Lokarin posted...

Bulbasaur runs on a campaign of helping the poor, low level individuals get an equal playing field by handling the first two gyms with ease so they can get on a more equal footing middle-game

Sure but by doing that, you've thrown those low level Pokemon straight into the tall grass that they aren't prepared for. Charmander on the other hand needs help from the get go and you need couple of Pokemon who want to fight the good fight and that together, we can make a difference.

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Lokarin posted...

Not to ad hom, but slavery is a crutch - you falsely believe that a third of your party must prop up the other 2/3s, weakening the team as a whole.

It's not 'propping up'. It's an unfortunate necessity to survive in these trying games. Who else is going to HM1 these trees or HM2 us across water? Maybe at some point in the future we'll invent some sort of system to outsource our work to third party pokemon, but for now a trainer needs their HM slaves. The HM slaves get reparations in EXP and it's the only reason we haven't exterminated Bidoof from the face of the planet yet.

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trodi_911 posted...

Sure but by doing that, you've thrown those low level Pokemon straight into the tall grass that they aren't prepared for. Charmander on the other hand needs help from the get go and you need couple of Pokemon who want to fight the good fight and that together, we can make a difference.

That's why we need universal ExpShare

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Unbridled9 posted...

It's not 'propping up'. It's an unfortunate necessity to survive in these trying games. Who else is going to HM1 these trees or HM2 us across water? Maybe at some point in the future we'll invent some sort of system to outsource our work to third party pokemon, but for now a trainer needs their HM slaves. The HM slaves get reparations in EXP and it's the only reason we haven't exterminated Bidoof from the face of the planet yet.

You can subsidize the most valuable HMs such as Fly and debatably Surf, sacrificing a SINGLE move on one pokemon, and then just swap members as needed for contract work since it's not like there's Trees and Dark Caves everywhere... yes, it takes a little more personal responsibility to swap teams as needed, but it's important for overall lteam growth

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Lokarin posted...

That's why we need universal ExpShare

Universal ExpShare is a pipe dream that robs hard working pokemon of their EXP. Even if it didn't there's no proof it makes for stronger teams instead of just elevating slacker pokemon up.

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Squirtle was my first.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Universal ExpShare is a pipe dream that robs hard working pokemon of their EXP. Even if it didn't there's no proof it makes for stronger teams instead of just elevating slacker pokemon up.

Some pokemon are simply too weak to front line and ExpShare helps more than leading and swapping in a sort of apprentice program... it's one of the better ways to complete the Pokedex

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Charmander for kids who don't need to be OP to beat the first gym.

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I have never actually done a Pokemon Red/Blue (or FR/LG) run with Bulbasaur.


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I didn't buy Pokemon Let's Go Eevee or Let's Go Pikachu, but I'd at least strongly consider Pokemon Let's Go Burn Stuff (featuring Charmander).

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Lokarin posted...

Some pokemon are simply too weak to front line and ExpShare helps more than leading and swapping in a sort of apprentice program... it's one of the better ways to complete the Pokedex

Pokedex completion? That can only be achieved by trading with rival copies of our world that don't follow our ways and have different pokemon entirely! What's next, claiming that, in addition to red and blue, there's a 'green' version of our world? Nay! Such a thing is delusional ranting!

God this is fun! Hope no one is taking this seriously and realizes it's all a joke.

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There is a yellow version, no one understands what green is.

BlackScythe0 posted...

There is a yellow version, no one understands what green is.

In Japan the original copies were Blue and Green. But when they ported them over they not only redid a lot of the artwork and fixed some of the problems but they changed it to Red and Blue. So 'Green' DOES exist... in the form of pokemon Red. Also the re-released on the GBA were FireRed and LeafGreen but that's not what I'm talking about here.

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Charmander for me. How could you not want to eventually ride around on a dragon who is ironically not a "dragon-type."

BlackScythe0 posted...

Charizard is objectively the coolest.

Objectively least imaginative. A dragon that breathes fire? Oh wow never seen that before

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I absolutely love turtles, but I really love the way a shiny Charizard looks.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Universal ExpShare is a pipe dream that robs hard working pokemon of their EXP. Even if it didn't there's no proof it makes for stronger teams instead of just elevating slacker pokemon up.

gen 1s xpshare was a universal xpshare btw

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Joe_Biden posted...

gen 1s xpshare was a universal xpshare btw

Yeah, but it was balanced in that divided the experience rather than being game-breaking by giving your team x6 exp. The original Exp-Share's problem wasn't in its function, but in how it over-bloated battles with so much extra text, but at least in the original, you could deposit the Exp-Share in the PC if you didn't want to have to deal with it.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Pokedex completion? That can only be achieved by trading with rival copies of our world that don't follow our ways and have different pokemon entirely! What's next, claiming that, in addition to red and blue, there's a 'green' version of our world? Nay! Such a thing is delusional ranting!

God this is fun! Hope no one is taking this seriously and realizes it's all a joke.

I like that someone actually played along with me

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Bulbasaur because Charmander doesnt learn how to fly and Squrtle getting water cannons looks more like a bad mech suit then poke evolution.

Unbridled9 posted...

But he had to duel-type into poison giving him a crippling weakness to psychic types and he seriously falls off late game. He's lying to you offering you a smoother early game while hiding the inevitable downside.

1) Dual

2) Poison sub-typing means immunity to the poison status, which is super annoying and common

3) Even though Bulbasaur shines more in the early game, an early game advantage means more than a late game advantage. And really he has an advantage against more gyms than the other two starters.

Pewter - SE or double-SE vs defenders
Cerulean- Resists water and SE (the only real issue is Seaking having peck)
Vermillion - Resists electricity
Celadon - Immune to poison status, double-resists grass, but his grass is NVE so you're relying on other attacks
Saffron - Good for the fighting dojo, not so much for the psychic gym
Fuschia - Kind of a toss-up. It has psychic defenders, but the poison resistance can also come in handy
Cinnibar - Do not use
Viridian - SE or double-SE vs most defenders

Compare that to, say, Charmander who is fucked in the first gym (Scratch and Ember are both NVE), fucked in the second gym, neutral in the third gym, advantage in the fourth, neutral in the fifth, somewhat advantaged in the sixth, and then in Cinnibar it's NVE vs NVE (so relying on other attacks) and then at a disadvantage in Viridian.

The Charmander campaign sucks because you have to rely on something other than Charmander. But guess what? Bug types aren't any help, neither is that Pikachu you could find in Viridian Forest, or those Rattata and Pidgey. But what about Mankey, you ask? In gen 1 Mankey doesn't get his fighting attacks early enough to be useful. Plus you'd have to know that he's a thing and you'd have to know where to find him.

And, not for nothing, but under gen 1 mechanics Razor Leaf has a 100% crit rate for double damage and stat bypasses, as well as more PP than other strong moves. So while on paper it's 55BP, in practical terms it's more like 110BP whereas the other comparable moves are only 95BP (and generally 15 PP vs RL's 25). That's not counting how OP sleep mechanics were in gen 1 and Venusaur gets sleep powder.

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Long long from drawn together would destroy them all!

https://drawntogether.fandom.com/wiki/Ling-Ling?file=Llbattlespikes.jpg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4IAGkKIGvJw

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