Poll of the Day > What happens if Trump tries to PARDON the MAGA RIOTERS????

(+) Yeah! (+)

The House is already trying to disable his ability to have NUCLEAR CODES...but he still has pardon power...what happens if he tries to pardon these trailer trash men who are identified as rioters? This would be a federal crime and no doubt he does not want to step down until he pardons everyone he wants to before he goes.

https://i.imgur.com/cSnCzCo.jpg
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That would require him to care about any of them. They can't do anything for him anymore, so he doesn't.

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Pawns are meant to be sacrificed.

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This will definitely get him convicted.

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keyblader1985 posted...

That would require him to care about any of them. They can't do anything for him anymore, so he doesn't.

This. Trump isn't a principled revolutionary. He's just an opportunist. I expect he was still hoping to go back to schmoozing with celebrities after Janauary 20th. He's just... the worst.

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That would be an interesting scenario, although not terribly likely. He certainly has the power to make that pardon and, at this point, it's not like there would be any real blowback from it. However, I doubt he has any emotional investment in any of it. The only reason he might issue that pardon would be to piss off Chuck and Nancy.

But what would happen? Almost certainly nothing. They're already going to try to impeach him again, so that doesn't change. And if he waits until his last day, there's really nothing they can do.

The only incentive either way would be Trump's legacy. He might see it as a benefit to pardon the rioters because it would remove the resulting cloud of trials likely to take place over the next two years. Or he might see it as a detriment that would tarnish his reputation as a "law and order" president, at which point he'd do nothing.

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thing is, if he pardons, the court can just, like, re-charge ... a pardon is only a courtesy, not a divine judgment

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At this point, I get infuriated just by seeing his face or hearing his voice.

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Lokarin posted...

thing is, if he pardons, the court can just, like, re-charge ... a pardon is only a courtesy, not a divine judgment

Double jeopardy. They cannot be charged for the same crime twice.

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Entity13 posted...

Double jeopardy. They cannot be charged for the same crime twice.

Pardon's erase that, otherwise a judge could just say 'time served' for the same effect

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Nothing because its a constitutional power appointed to the president. You can't just say, 'lol u dont get that power becuz we said so'.

Hell, we don't even really know if he can't pardon himself of any wrong doing because it doesn't explicitly state in the constiution that he can't.

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Lokarin posted...

Pardon's erase that, otherwise a judge could just say 'time served' for the same effect

Not my understanding of it. From what I've been led to believe, someone who has been pardoned can sit in court and say all the bad things they've done without fear of persecution. Considering Trump's so-called allies are abandoning him since he served his purpose, some of those he's pardoned could very well testify against him, without consequence, as a result of the pardon he gave them.

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idk, there could be some nuance thar - and country differences

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How does a president pardon for crimes that haven't even been tried yet?
How the fuck is a pre-emptive pardon even a thing?
seems to make a mockery of the entire idea of the pardon.
Much like how a "filibuster" went from a dude actually speaking for hours to stall out a vote to merely "threatening to do so" and it being treated as a filibuster.

streamofthesky posted...

How does a president pardon for crimes that haven't even been tried yet?
How the f*** is a pre-emptive pardon even a thing?
seems to make a mockery of the entire idea of the pardon.

It just is. See also the pardon Nixon had received.

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Entity13 posted...

It just is. See also the pardon Nixon had received.

Reforming the pardon power to only apply to crimes that have already gone to trial and had a verdict seems like such a fucking no-brainer, then...

Also, Nixon's pardon was appalling.

streamofthesky posted...

How does a president pardon for crimes that haven't even been tried yet?
How the fuck is a pre-emptive pardon even a thing?
seems to make a mockery of the entire idea of the pardon.
Much like how a "filibuster" went from a dude actually speaking for hours to stall out a vote to merely "threatening to do so" and it being treated as a filibuster.

They don't have to be in court for a pardon to go in effect. If they were arrested then they can be pardoned.
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Revelation34 posted...

They don't have to be in court for a pardon to go in effect. If they were arrested then they can be pardoned.

FBI should seriously consider waiting a bit to arrest these terrorists, then.
Not aware of any law forcing them to act immediately.

streamofthesky posted...

FBI should seriously consider waiting a bit to arrest these terrorists, then.
Not aware of any law forcing them to act immediately.

Better to arrest them before they go and shoot something else.
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streamofthesky posted...

Also, Nixon's pardon was appalling.

I almost see the reasoning behind it, but it did more harm than good in the short term. It potentially opened the door to what we will see in the coming months.

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You mean peaceful protesters right?

It is crazy to see the complete hypocrisy around this situation. BLM riots were so much worse than this, but the same people praising those and calling for more now suddenly have a problem with it.

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SirPikachu posted...

You mean peaceful protesters right?

It is crazy to see the complete hypocrisy around this situation. BLM riots were so much worse than this, but the same people praising those and calling for more now suddenly have a problem with it.

BLM protests started peacefully until well-documented plants from the Proud Boys and their ilk were arrested for looting, and the police started shooting at the peaceful BLM protestors. Also, Trump had the police beat and break up the peaceful protest in DC just so he could walk, unhindered, to a church to do a photo op while holding a Bible upside down. ABOUT this time the protests became not-so-peaceful.

The devastation was wrong, by all reasonable counts, but BLM didn't go into the protests seeking death or destruction. That was literally their political opponents.

So no, there is no hypocrisy from those praising or supporting the peaceful protests, because those of us who do so know how to distinguish between events. Anyone with an inkling of reality knows that the attempted coup was planned, and that the right are only now blaming the left for it because 1) they hate receiving consequences for their actions, and 2) it's what they would do and have done to disrupt the other side's protests.

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SirPikachu posted...

You mean peaceful protesters right?

It is crazy to see the complete hypocrisy around this situation. BLM riots were so much worse than this, but the same people praising those and calling for more now suddenly have a problem with it.

Are you really so delusional as to believe the things you're saying? To genuinely not see the difference between opportunistic violence coexisting in the same space but independent from a legitimate movement, and a deliberate assault on American democracy itself?

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SirPikachu posted...

You mean peaceful protesters right?

It is crazy to see the complete hypocrisy around this situation. BLM riots were so much worse than this, but the same people praising those and calling for more now suddenly have a problem with it.

This is a lie, no one praised riots. You're the one trying to argue there is no difference between the riots and the protests.

I'm sure there was people there on the 6th who didn't go to the building, we're not talking about them. We're talking about the people who went in there chanting hang Pence among other things.

SirPikachu posted...

You mean peaceful protesters right?

It is crazy to see the complete hypocrisy around this situation. BLM riots were so much worse than this, but the same people praising those and calling for more now suddenly have a problem with it.

https://i.imgur.com/Pr813V9.gifv

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SirPikachu posted...

so much worse than this,

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Obama should just put out a video saying "My fellow Americans, might I say that the only thing I hate more than people who resign from office are the people who try not to pardon themselves or their friends." Harsh gottem for Trump. No way he can't just do the opposite.

I feel like all of Trump's dumbassery could've been prevented by Obama just using base reverse psychology from the sidelines.

Lokarin posted...

Pardon's erase that, otherwise a judge could just say 'time served' for the same effect

If you don't know how something works, don't make wild fucking claims about it.

mrduckbear posted...

The House is already trying to disable his ability to have NUCLEAR CODES...

Which is just fucking moronic that Nancy Pelosi is repeating this batshit conspiracy theory, which makes no sense on any level. If your argument is, "Oh, we're worried what he might do because he's unstable," it completely undercuts your argument if you've been trying to antagonize and annoy him. Clearly there's no fear of what he might do because, if there was, they wouldn't be trying to demand his removal from office mere days before he leaves office. It's just more cheap political theater with no fucking value except to the partisans and America's enemies who can gloat over our division.

streamofthesky posted...

How does a president pardon for crimes that haven't even been tried yet?
How the fuck is a pre-emptive pardon even a thing?
seems to make a mockery of the entire idea of the pardon.
Much like how a "filibuster" went from a dude actually speaking for hours to stall out a vote to merely "threatening to do so" and it being treated as a filibuster.

Because the pardon pertains to the event rather than the charges? Honestly, I think a pardon would have to work like that to have any meaning, because otherwise a person could be pardoned on some charges only for the prosecutor to bring new charges pertaining to the same event to completely bypass that pardon.

streamofthesky posted...

Reforming the pardon power to only apply to crimes that have already gone to trial and had a verdict seems like such a fucking no-brainer, then...

That would be a stupid waste of manpower and resources. You'd basically tie the whole process up in a lengthy trial when the pardon comes at the end anyway, meaning that you've fucked over everybody else in the system who might be waiting for a trial that would actually count.


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Entity13 posted...

BLM protests started peacefully until well-documented plants from the Proud Boys and their ilk were arrested for looting, and the police started shooting at the peaceful BLM protestors.

adjl posted...

Are you really so delusional as to believe the things you're saying?

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SirPikachu posted...

You mean peaceful protesters right?

It is crazy to see the complete hypocrisy around this situation. BLM riots were so much worse than this, but the same people praising those and calling for more now suddenly have a problem with it.

I'm afraid you're wasting your breath with those leftist haters. They'll just repeat bUt WhErE iS tHe EvIdEnCe?!

No matter how many times they see videos of Antifa thugs infiltrating our ranks and causing the damage, or the videos of BLM terrorists burning, looting, and pillaging, they'll just keep watching CNN and other dishonest media outlets, and are very unlikely to wake up.

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The first presidential pardon was issued by George Washington for two men sentenced to hang for their part in the "Whiskey Rebellion" so if Trump pardons the MAGA insurrectionists they're pardoned. Who is going to go against precedent set by George Washington himself? There really isn't any question in what happens. Pardons don't really have any clear limitations but there are a couple exceptions that I feel have a chance in court.

Realistically I think the only pardon which could be challenged is if Trump pardoned himself. No man is above the law and I believe a strong case could be made against such an action.

The other thing is I grew up being told a pardon is an admission of guilt, recently I've learned the court ruling that line is taken from is not a ruling where that is a key part of the decision. So while it isn't solid I would have serious objections to an excessively vague pardon. I know the Nixon pardon was vague but everyone knew what he did and what he was being pardoned for thus never challenged it. If Trump gets a vague sweeping pardon we're not going to know what exactly he is being pardoned for as he is suspected of quite a number of crimes. If Trump resigned (I don't see him doing that) and Pence pardoned him with a vague sweeping pardon it should be challenged since if he can avoid responsibility for his actions we should know exactly what he is being pardoned for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R7WrlIIV3o

No matter how many times they see videos of Antifa thugs infiltrating our ranks and causing the damage

All zero of them.

Seriously, there is no such evidence. What everyone does have is evidence from Trump's cultists planning these actions, of attending recent events, and doing these self-same things you are trying to pin on Antifa or BLM. Someone tried to claim the tattoo of the Soviet symbol was proof of Antifa, but it was the tattoo of the mark from the Dishonored games. So stop trying to spread conspiracy theories or blaming other people for your own actions. Your ilk did this, no one else. Your ilk are seeing consequences, that's what consequences are and how they work. Your ilk has been caught by their own making, and flailing about, pointing the finger at everyone else, will not work; not unless your goal is to be further chastised and disregarded in any serious discussion.

So if by some miracle you have any real evidence, any legitimate videos that are not staged or spliced nonsense from Fox, Etc., post it, or shut up and get yourself some much-needed help. Because evidence and reality are reasonable, and conspiracies and finger-pointing are not.

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Remember that fake phamplet claiming to be ANTIFA instructions for infiltrating MAGA protests? It fucking called the protestors "patriots." Like anyone against fascism would call them that.
Also imagine how shitty it must feel to be part of a failed coup attempt, having your face splattered all over the news as a pussy ass traitor, and having your MAGA comrades calling you an ANTIFA plant.

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SirPikachu posted...

BLM riots were so much worse than this

trying to literally overthrow an entire nations democracy because you're upset that your guy lost an election is a magnitude more worse than peaceful protests because an entire race of people are angry that police keep killing them.

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I wasn't ok with the level of institutional support received by antifa and BLM when they went on rampages, and I wouldn't be ok with it for Trump supporters.

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Zareth posted...

Remember that fake phamplet claiming to be ANTIFA instructions for infiltrating MAGA protests? It fucking called the protestors "patriots." Like anyone against fascism would call them that.
Also imagine how shitty it must feel to be part of a failed coup attempt, having your face splattered all over the news as a pussy ass traitor, and having your MAGA comrades calling you an ANTIFA plant.

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If he pardons then they can freely testify against him.

you cant plead the 5th if you have immunity from prosecution.

that was a tactical error of his with some people he did pardon. It is unlikely charges will be brought on any of those basis but still it is a weakness.

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Conner4REAL posted...

If he pardons then they can freely testify against him.

*Cue laugh track*

And what "testimony" do you expect they could give?

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Wouldn't pardoning those people be admitting they weren't ANTIFA as Mr. Trump insists on claiming. It also means that he won't stick up for the people that thought they would get a pardon for doing what he wanted. A bit kick in the head for them from him.

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