Board 8 > Andy plays Final Fantasy VI

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Grand Kirby
01/23/21 6:35:31 PM
#203:


Okay, I checked my GBA save file and:

  • Yes, Odin simply has his own empty space.
  • And for whatever reason there are TWO final empty spaces in the GBA Esper list instead of one. Must be something about how the menu list is arranged (three columns instead of the SNES's two)
So you should be fine.

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andylt
01/23/21 10:25:22 PM
#204:


Rango posted...
As long as you're enjoying the game.
Forgot to reply to this before. I am enjoying it a great deal! The encounter rate definitely is a bit too high, it only bothered me when I was lost or looking to find a secret but the enc-none charm has alleviated that annoyance. It's definitely a top tier OST too, and I haven't even done the final dungeon yet (assuming this one has great tracks near the end like most in the series do, I know of 'Dancing Mad' but not sure if I've actually heard it).

MalcolmMasher posted...
(Although I'm confident that that Ultros and, especially, Siegfried were inspired by FF5's fan favorite comic villain.)
Agreed, and I meant to mention Siegfried before. I went looking for the impostor in the cave near Figaro (where I last saw him) but nothing. Trying to make sense of his deal- the impostor was on the Phantom Train but he wasn't dead I assume, then Ultros mentioned impressing him at some point, then the impostor was in the cave and then we met the real guy at the Coliseum. Curious how that's all gonna shake out!

MalcolmMasher posted...
"Team". Heh. Remember the Phoenix Cave? : )
Oh man I loved that split team thing, I was hoping we'd do it again! I'd better train up some of the minor ones before attempting the tower then, maybe teach Gau and Strago some new things too. Don't know if I got all of Edgar's Tools or Mog's other Dance yet either, come to think of it. (Also at first I forgot the name of Phoenix Cave and thought you were referring to the Phoenix Tower in V, I was filled with dread for a moment lol).

mnkboy907 posted...
Also yeah, in the original, Flood wasn't a spell and there were in fact no regular Water magic spells. Just stuff like Aqua Breath, Water Rondo, Gau's rages, and I think one of Shadow's throwables? Odd oversight.
Huh I hadn't noticed but that is odd. There's definitely a Water Scroll. I guess Water has usually been a secondary element in the series, there's Ice/Fire/Thunder as the big three then Air/Holy/Earth as secondaries that can be a bit weird with how they act. I guess Water would be on Air's level in general, but that has Aero as a fairly standard spell at least.

And thank you so much to GK and everyone who helped clear up the Esper stuff, so I have 5 empty slots but only 2 more Espers to get and I can't do either of them at the moment! I would've spent hours looking assuming I'd missed something there, phew. Next time I'll train people up a bit and try to get the gang prepared for the tower, then depending on how long all that takes maybe give the final dungeon a go!

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pjbasis
01/24/21 2:23:27 AM
#205:


It's tough to fit in Water when Ice basically does what you'd expect water to do (beat fire creatures). Unless you do weirdo FFX rules and make it opposite to Thunder. Usually FF isn't so cleanly elemental like that, Air and Earth are usually just good against Air and Ground opponents.

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Earthshaker
01/24/21 8:45:51 AM
#206:


Yeah, FF has a weird relationship with elemental systems.

Fire is strong against undead, plants, and ice creatures, except when it isn't.
Ice is strong against fiery beings, water creatures, and flying creatures, except when it isn't.
Thunder is strong against robotics and aquatics, except when it isn't.

And then you get the subelements.
Water is strong against desert creatures or electrical spawn. Except when it isn't.
Wind is strong against flying creatures and evasive things. Except when it isn't.
Earth is strong against large creatures and things that don't fly. Except when it isn't.
Gravity is similar to earth, except it deals fractional damage. That usually doesn't work.
Poison is like water but affects Humanoids more. Except when it doesn't.
Dark doesn't typically affect anything well except holy creatures and is usually real strong to compensate. Usually paired with Drain, so you can kill yourselves on Undead all the easier.
Holy is the catch-all "murder this, especially Undead." Except when it isn't.

Then you have Flare, which is sometimes Fire, sometimes not. Or Meteor, which is sometimes friendly fire, sometimes not.

Weirdest yet most standard element wheel I can think of is FFXIV's, where Blackmage deals with Fire/Ice/Lightning/Darkness/Flare, Whitemage deals with Earth/Wind/Water/Light, and Summoner deals with Wind/Earth/Fire for summons and Poison/Non-Elemental for standard spells.

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colliding
01/24/21 11:58:38 AM
#207:


We could tell you where to find Edgar's last tool, but you're not gonna like it.

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Fiop
01/24/21 12:32:37 PM
#208:


If you havent found Edgars last tool yet, youre unlikely to find it on your own at this point, at least in the original SNES intended way. I dont recall whether GBA-added monsters have it as a steal or drop.

Go back to the Cultists tower, where you got Strago. Go up to the first room with treasure. Search to the right of the treasure chest. This opens up a hidden room below it that has the air anchor.

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"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude." - 1 Cor 13:4-5
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pjbasis
01/24/21 12:50:29 PM
#209:


Earthshaker posted...
Whitemage deals with Earth/Wind/Water/Light

white mages are damage dealers now? I mean they always had Holy but that's like a late stage gimmick.

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colliding
01/24/21 12:54:01 PM
#210:


If I remember correctly some random NPC in some random town gives you a vague clue about Edgar's last tool, but I can't tell you who or where. Maybe a Zozo thief looking dude?

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andylt
01/24/21 1:34:08 PM
#211:


Oh man thanks for that, I've had 'to the right of the treasure chest' in my notes for ages but I thought I'd missed out on whatever it was, some random thief (in... I want to say Maranda? Or maybe Tzen) mentions it, but like it could be literally any chest in the game! If it's only the first treasure chest I don't mind heading back there. That ****ing tower though.

And about the elements yeah I generally like how FF shakes things up every game but they could try to find some consistency, Lightning > Machines is the only thing that I don't think I've ever seen inverse in some random game. Might be forgetting with that, too.

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Grimlyn
01/24/21 3:16:02 PM
#212:


scrolls back a page

andylt posted...
Now... wait we really have to go all the way back down the tower again? Jeez! This time it's even easier thanks to the Soul of Thamasa, and once at the bottom we leave and I vow never to return.

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Fiop
01/24/21 3:16:20 PM
#213:


Yeah, its one of those things thats very difficult to get without a guide. I definitely didnt. The NPC hint is too vague, unless you start searching next to every chest or something. If anyone was able to get it on their own, then props to them.

I just looked it up and it is a rare steal from one of the enemies in Kefkas tower and also available in the Coliseum. So, I guess there are other ways to get it at least.


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Earthshaker
01/24/21 3:55:35 PM
#214:


pjbasis posted...
white mages are damage dealers now? I mean they always had Holy but that's like a late stage gimmick.

They're still primarily healers, but yes. Break/Stone are single target damage, Aero applies damage over time, and Fluid Aura once did damage, now it just knocks back.

Holy is an AoE delayed blast that stuns, and when you get into Shadowbringers territory, their stone/aero spells turn to Glare/Dia, respectively. They deal the most damage of the three healers, and also have "Afflatus Misery" which is the highest damage spell in their arsenal that can only be used if they consume three healing lilies.

Oh, and their damage is based off their healing stat. Fun stuff.

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andylt
01/24/21 5:10:53 PM
#215:


Grimlyn posted...
scrolls back a page
**** you got me. Well either Edgar makes do with what he has or I break my solemn vow as a playthrough poster and will never be respected again.

What do you bet to get it in the Coliseum? Also does anyone know which Mog Dance I'm missing? (Won't be continuing til tomorrow at any rate.)

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Grand Kirby
01/24/21 5:32:53 PM
#216:


andylt posted...
Also does anyone know which Mog Dance I'm missing? (Won't be continuing til tomorrow at any rate.)
The easiest one to miss is the underwater one. Did you remember to return to the Serpent Trench in the previous world? Aside from that the only other way to get it is from the Leviathan battle. After that you're out of luck. Aside from that remember that each major battle background has a dance associated with it. If you've had Mog in your party a lot you've probably collected the common ones, so the next most obscure one to me is the Snow background which I think should still be able to be gotten in the Narshe cliffs.

Speaking of which, have you taken a good look at the above-ground Serpent Trench in the ruined world? You can see clearly now how it's shaped like a snake, complete with a mouth. Kind of neat.

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Okay, I rolled a 14. What's that mean? Hsu
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mnkboy907
01/24/21 5:37:29 PM
#217:


It's hard to be vague since saying the name or anything for most of them makes it obvious where to battle to get them, but I'm gonna guess you're missing the snowy one?

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andylt
01/24/21 6:29:17 PM
#218:


Ah yeah it's the snow one, thanks. Somebody told me to get the underwater one previously.

Grand Kirby posted...
Speaking of which, have you taken a good look at the above-ground Serpent Trench in the ruined world? You can see clearly now how it's shaped like a snake, complete with a mouth. Kind of neat.
I like this kinda stuff, these SNES games did a bunch of cool stuff with their world maps. Still gonna be tough to beat V's maps perfectly overlaying on each other though.

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Fiop
01/24/21 6:45:27 PM
#219:


Genji Armor gives you air anchor. It's quite a useful armor, though. I don't recall how tough the fight is. You can get more Genji Armors by betting some of Strago and Relm's equipment, namely the Tabby Suit, Chocobo Suit, Moogle Suit, and Nutkin Suit. These are part of a chain that eventually leads to Genji Armor, then Air Anchor. You get one copy of each of these from chests, IIRC, and are only available as rare drops/steals from certain enemies, so they're sorta limited.

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colliding
01/24/21 6:49:29 PM
#220:


Another thing about Edgar's final tool: it sucks and definitely isn't worth giving up a Genji Armor

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Fiop
01/24/21 8:29:16 PM
#221:


The other option is its a rare steal from the Gamma enemy in Kefkas tower.

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andylt
01/25/21 2:28:16 PM
#222:


I went back on my word and just got it from the chest >_>

I'm ready to head to Kefka's and aw **** it's three parties! That's very cool but means I have to go back and train people up first! Dang. Gotta figure out which 2 to leave behind too, also are there any Rages/Lores that are super useful before I go?

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SeabassDebeste
01/25/21 2:49:29 PM
#223:


what's the level distribution at right now?
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andylt
01/25/21 2:55:50 PM
#224:


My main group are around Level 50, most of the others are low 40s and a handful are 37 or so.

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Fiop
01/25/21 3:01:48 PM
#225:


There's a couple really good Rages. One in particular lets you apply a status to enemies that really shouldn't be able to be applied. That said, with rages in general it's tough to get specific ones, especially later in the game when there are more enemy formations can appear in the veldt. I would say to experiment with what you have to see what's the best. I'm sure we could give you a list of the best ones (maybe someone has a handy list). I will say Stray Cat is a really good one that I think you start with. Also, Yojimbo is great, not because it's necessarily overpowered but for a different reason that I won't spoil; he's an enemy in Kefka's tower so you can't get him yet, though.

For Lores, Mighty Guard is one that is really good to have. I checked a guide and it says to sketch a land ray on solitary island to get it. I'm sure there are other ways. There are quite a few that are learnable in Kefka's tour that are good.

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colliding
01/25/21 3:32:37 PM
#226:


Best places to grind are the northern dinosaur forest and the desert next to Maranda

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PunishedBen
01/25/21 4:38:59 PM
#227:


I don't think grinding is too necessary. Level 35 is generally considered enough for Kefka's tower

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Mr Crispy
01/25/21 5:44:19 PM
#228:


You probably can get by without training everyone, there aren't any consecutive boss fights and you aren't trapped in there.

So you can put Mog w/ his charm on your C team so they can go and hit switches for the other teams, have your A and B teams finish their routes. Then if you don't think you could beat the boss with your C team you can leave the dungeon and put your C team on one of the routes you've already cleared (since they don't respawn) and fight the last one with your A team.

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Fiop
01/25/21 6:00:54 PM
#229:


I would say to just divide the teams somewhat evenly, making sure each one has a good healer and damage dealer. You can probably get by without grinding or skipping battles with Molulu's Charm.

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MalcolmMasher
01/25/21 7:17:21 PM
#230:


Lores: If you kill all of Hidon's little monsters and wait around a bit, Hidon will use Strago's ultimate Lore, which Strago can learn. (IIRC talking to Gungho makes Hidon return. ) Aside from that, some bird monsters on the overworld near Kohlingen can use Aero, which is a bit stronger than level 3 spells. White Wind and Mighty Guard are always good pickups, sketching monsters on the Solitary Island can get you both. (Raging those monsters also works - Strago can learn from Gau.)

Rages: By this point, there should be a couple of critters on the Veldt you might not expect, such as White Dragon. Veldt mechanics mean that you're guaranteed to run into it if you hang around long enough. (Basically, monsters are sorted into "packs" that the game cycles through, and it is the only encounter in its pack.) Behemoth and Tyranosaur also have cool offensive abilities to offer, so pounce on 'em if you run into one on the Veldt.
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andylt
01/25/21 8:02:40 PM
#231:


Thanks Fiop, I got Mighty Guard and decided to give things a go as is. And thanks for all the other advice everyone, but I'd already started Kefka's Tower before I read the other posts >_> After a lot of mixing around and equipping everyone before we set off, I decide on our (hopefully balanced) teams:

Team 1: Celes, Shadow, Cyan, Gogo. Celes has Dualcast and a Gold Hairpin, Shadow has 8x attack, Gogo has Mimic, Magic, Steal and Lore.
Team 2: Terra, Edgar, Mog, Umaro. Terra has a Gold Hairpin, Edgar and Mog both have Jump and Edgar has the Relic that lets Jump repeat, Umaro is Umaro. No Molulu Charm.
Team 3: Sabin, Locke, Strago, Gau. Sabin and Locke are my top physical attackers and I bring Strago so each team has a powerful mage on side.

Celes and the gang wonder what removing the Triad means for the world- could magic disappear? The Espers? Terra? We shall see. Into Kefka's Tower we go. This is, thankfully, a really really good dungeon. I'm on board the second I see we're gonna be split into three teams, much like in Phoenix Cave I love that the game encourages you to use everybody (pretty much, sorry Relm and Setzer). The layout initially appears to be Floating Continent-y, but as we travel around we see the place is mixed in with Vector itself, very cool. The enemies look intimidating, right from the off there's Greater Malboros and Behemoths in the same enemy party, and several varieties of Dragon. (Strago does learn Bad Breath at least). As it turns out this place is also stacked with minibosses. Honestly it's a pretty great grinding spot in itself, but we're doing alright so no need to hang around.

There's not really many puzzles here, the latter two teams have to step on a switch here and there to let Celes's team through, but the vibe here is just so cool. I have a great time traversing this place, it's not too hard but not a cakewalk, and there's plenty of treasure to find. I guess technically you could do this with just Celes, Edgar and Setzer, lol.

Our first boss comes in the jail cell Kefka was once in: Ultima Buster. The true form of Ultima Weapon? Something like that. Not too bad, except a nasty flash leading to Ultima at one point. Thankfully it's the Jump team taking him on so Edgar and Mog manage to avoid it, and Terra actually tanks it outright (barely). The Buster soon goes down and we get a save point.

The enemies vary quite a lot as we go through what was once Vector, the mechanical enemies are harder. Precisely one time we come across the Movers from V! But they're no longer special, not giving absurd amounts of AP :( Our next miniboss is Gold Dragon, a Thunder-based dragon we fight with Team Terra. We brush it aside very easily, but Sabin faces a slightly tougher challenge with Inferno. Despite it using Thunder attacks itself it seems to be weak to them? Weird. Once we get rid of the hands it's not so bad. Honestly we're plowing through at a pretty decent pace here.

Skull Dragon is the last of the 8, and he is not ready for the deluge of Holy attacks we have going. Sabin has a holy weapon on one of his hands, Strago can cast Holy and Gau learned the Rage for Holy Dragon a while ago, so we are set. 8/8 down, a mysterious voice tell us something is waiting at the Dragon's Horn. Guess this is a map thing, like the Coliseum being Dragon's Neck. Something to remember! We are rewarded with Crusader Magicite, and the Meltdown ability. The description says Meltdown hits allies too, so not sure how this is better than Ultima!

The three teams eventually wind up on the same screen, and after some moving around it's Sabin's team that ends up moving ahead somehow. We wind up stealing another Air Anchor from Gamma (lol I broke my vow for nothing), and this area has the first time I notice the animation of Interceptor blocking for Shadow. Adorable. Sabin and crew run face first into the Guardian. Oh hell yeah, time for a rematch with this guy. He's not half as intimidating as he used to be but I keep my guard up anyway (literally). After he goes down we save and run ahead, once again headfirst into a boss without realising. It's Warring Triad time!

Team Sabin fights Demon, who has some very fancy annoying spells such as Flare Star, Southern Cross, and Tyrfing. We're powered enough that we can get through here, but it is alarming how much damage he can deal. Thankfully a couple of my guys have Element-blocking armour/shields. Locke steals a Red Jacket and he drops a very convenient Radiant Lance. I then realise I messed up and have to fall down and go back to let the other teams through.

Team Terra fights Goddess, who absorbs Edgar's Holy Lance before I swap it to the fancy new one, and charms our Yeti friend into attacking himself. We surround her, which is pretty handy. We can't use party-wide spells but she has to focus on one side at a time too, basically Terra and Mog are healing while Edgar continually piles on his Jumps to do ridiculous damage. She eventually goes down and gives Excalibur.

Last up is Team Celes with Fiend. Little note here: I really like the designs of these Triad folks, they give off Renaissance Painting vibes in a way. I also like this boss music, we've heard it before but I forget where. Has a bit that sounds like World Revolution from Chrono. Anyway Fiend himself is super easy, Celes+Gogo have their 4x Ultima for the price of one ready to go and Shadow has his x8 attacks. We have to burn up our Frozen friends a couple of times but he goes down way faster than the others. I like that the triad are element based. For our troubles Cyan gets a fancy Mutsunokami.


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andylt
01/25/21 8:06:39 PM
#232:


Now that the preamble is out of the way, it is time to face the Clown himself. Everybody approaches him together (the 12 v 1 is a nice shot), and Kefka lets out his nihilistic views properly for the first time while destroying some more of the world. The gang is no longer fazed though, and we get a really nice moment of each of the crew recognising their reason for living and fighting. Despite what Kefka says I don't care how cheesy this bit is, it's really heartwarming, especially for the characters that don't usually open up like this (Celes, Shadow). Terra remembers she's the main character for this final hour, and it does her a world of favours. It's time to set a final team order.

This set of 12 is, again, intimidating, as we haven't had anything like this yet. Not sure what's coming, I place my mains on first (Celes, Sabin, Locke, Terra) and off we go. This sequence of bosses is visually astounding, three tiers of some eldritch abomination that still looks beautiful and carved by an artist, like the Triad before. The use of colour and the notable absence of it in many places only makes the whole thing look more affecting, and beating the first layer only to see the camera pan up slowly, it's just done so well.

Honestly this sequence is a bit of a blur for me- I can't remember exactly how it went, I was so full of adrenaline and ready to take Kefka down. I know it wasn't a walk in the park though, my guys fell down on numerous occasions. Thankfully the buffs stick between layers, but between death, petrification (I didn't have my main team set up with Ribbons) and the like, there was a lot of casting to do. At some points I got too caught up in buffing that I forgot to attack, and given how powered my characters are the best defence here is a good offence.

The second tier is harder than the first, more status effects are used and Locke falls down and out here :( The third introduces self-healing, but thankfully the healing head statue thing has a low HP limit. Unfortunately the third one has a super cheap finishing move (or I got unlucky) where it kills two of my characters outright then immediately fades away, removing them from the party. Sabin had Reraise so he stays, but Celes sadly fades away for the final fight. I'd like to see a piece of art of the full set of this creature in one shot.

Finally we ascend to the golden heavens and face our Chaos God himself, Kefka. Again, this looks great. He gives another brief speech and we're off- the team here is Gogo, Sabin, Edgar, and Terra. Unfortunately this is a bit of an anti-climactic boss, his HP must be pretty low because it only lasts a couple of minutes. Edgar gets lucky with a 4x Jump spree, and Sabin Phantom Rushes his way to victory before long. Not that I don't have to work to keep people healed and upright, it just ends way sooner than I thought it would. The song seemed good but it jumped between phases pretty fast so I didn't get a proper feel for it. At one point an eerie message warning us the end is nigh appears, and I think he's gearing up for an attack but no it's just the end of the boss fight! At first I think he's tricking us with an elaborate fake death animation (Like Soul Master in Hollow Knight) but it then becomes clear that the game is just really making sure we're aware of the gravity of what we've just done here.

All in all, the final dungeon was really really fun. Not the hardest in the series by a long shot, or the most complicated, but really effective at getting me into gear and excited for the ending. Even if Kefka himself is a little too easy!

It is then time for an ingenious take on the end credits, which take place during our escape, giving each character their own moment (and last name! Is this the first time in the series the last names are actually in-game?). The medley here is gorgeous, showing off how absolutely amazing the OST has been. Everybody gets their moment to shine and prove their worth (except Mog who needs help himself >_>), even Umaro and Gogo (who didn't give a reason for living earlier). Locke and Celes share a screen, effectively confirming their future relationship I guess, and Shadow bizarrely decides to stop running and... stays there? Not sure what to make of this, nobody addresses it. Hope he's ok, he mentioned finally finding friends now so it's weird if he's off on his own again.

Maduin appears to Terra and says her human side could allow her to continue to exist if she has a strong enough tie to this world (a fair way of giving her an out, tbh). Her tie is, of course, Katarin and the kids, and with a very sweet moment she tells Katarin, Celes and herself not to give up just yet, and is saved by Setzer. She's really shot up in my estimations in this final dungeon, where has this Terra been?!

Katarin gives birth, the Thamasans rebuild, Edgar ruins Celes' moment, and a plant begins to sprout. I gotta say, there's a lot of 'the world starting to rebuild' endings in fiction, but this game has damn well earned it better than most. Terra lets her hair down, and the gang rides off into the distance. The End.

Really, really enjoyed this ending. I'll talk more about it tomorrow and get going with postgame then, but it's late. Haven't even proofread this update properly, hope it makes sense! I'm really glad with how things turned out!

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cyko
01/25/21 9:59:39 PM
#233:


What an incredible game and a fantastic playthrough. Every time someone plays through Final Fantasy VI for the first time, I feel like I am experiencing for the first time again myself. It's amazing how well this game continues to hold up. Thanks for letting us follow along on your adventures!!

About the only thing you might have missed during the main game was some of Shadow's backstory. Do you remember sleeping in any inns with Shadow in your party during the World of Ruin?

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Fiop
01/25/21 10:06:12 PM
#234:


I agree the final dungeon really is great and I do like how it forces you to use most of your characters. Relm is actually really good if you teach her magic, though if you havent been teaching her spells, shes better to leave behind. As for Setzer, theres actually a really interesting weapon he gets in the final dungeon called Fixed Dice, which gives him something unique.

As to Meltdown, Ultima is generally better but the one thing going for it is you can set up equipment like Fire Shields to absorb fire and hit the enemy while healing yourself. Actually, elemental defenses are one of the things to pay attention to. Armor that doesnt seem that special like the Minerva is actually a lot better than youd think when you check the element defense. Some equipment will occasionally make you weak to something too so watch out for that too.

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"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude." - 1 Cor 13:4-5
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MikeTavish
01/25/21 10:47:38 PM
#235:


Great playthrough.

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Formerly ff6man.
Azuarc won the guru! Congrats!
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RaidenGarai
01/25/21 10:51:09 PM
#236:


Loved this! Always nice to see someone elses impressions of a true masterpiece

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Grand Kirby
01/25/21 10:58:46 PM
#237:


andylt posted...
I'd like to see a piece of art of the full set of this creature in one shot.

andylt posted...
At one point an eerie message warning us the end is nigh appears, and I think he's gearing up for an attack but no it's just the end of the boss fight!
That should be him preparing his ultimate attack. You might have simply killed him before he can pull it off.

The ending actually changes depending on who you manage to find and bring to the final dungeon. You can indeed just complete it with only Celes, Edgar, and Setzer (Terra will show up anyway for the final scenes no matter what though).

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That you're a cheater. This is a 12-sided die. Chan
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MalcolmMasher
01/26/21 12:32:54 AM
#238:


I also like this boss music, we've heard it before but I forget where.

I think Ultima Weapon and Ultima Buster share their theme with the Statues? It's either Decisive Battle or Fierce Battle, I forget which one is the 'normal' boss theme and which is the 'elite'.

Unfortunately the third one has a super cheap finishing move (or I got unlucky) where it kills two of my characters outright then immediately fades away, removing them from the party.

It's an instant death attack that ignores immunity to instant death, and that's just not right. It can be evaded and the Golem summon also nullifies it, but "super cheap" is 100% accurate.

The medley here is gorgeous, showing off how absolutely amazing the OST has been.

FFVI ending medley is a strong contender for best song in the series. If it's allowed, at least, since a twenty-minute medley of a dozen-plus songs is kind of cheating...

and Shadow bizarrely decides to stop running and... stays there? Not sure what to make of this, nobody addresses it.

The ending shows everyone else on the airship - even, in a quick pan, Gogo and Umaro - but not Shadow. I am confident that he sends Interceptor away because he intends to die, and doesn't want his dog to die alongside him. The context provided by Shadow's dreams may help you with your own speculation.
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I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.
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Fiop
01/26/21 12:55:14 AM
#239:


If you do not recruit a character, their turn in the ending still takes place, but instead of a scene with them, it'll just show you screens from an area, either relating to backstory or a clue on how to recruit them. If you don't recruit Terra or don't bring her into the tower, she still flies over, so the ending doesn't change that much, though I don't think you can use her in the final battle in that case.

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"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude." - 1 Cor 13:4-5
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andylt
01/26/21 8:43:42 AM
#240:


Thanks for the kind comments everyone, and for helping with the playthrough. I'm not done of course, there's the postgame and I'll probably throw some character rankings around, but I always appreciate the responses to these. As for the game itself, I've been wanting to play this one for a long time and was worried it wouldn't live up to expectations, but in general it holds up remarkably well. I'm surprised how fresh a lot of the design feels to this day, and the Balance/Ruin split was so gutsy and pretty much paid off. I have a couple of minor quibbles here and there but generally the only criticism I have is that I wanted more of it- more character interactions, deeper side stories for them in World of Ruin, more for each character to do etc.

The battle gameplay is probably the least impressive part of it objectively, but weirdly I had a ton of fun in the battles anyway. V's job system is definitely more interesting and the overall difficulty of this game is on the easier side (I may regret saying this when it comes to postgame!) but idk, I never got bored or annoyed (Cultist's Tower notwithstanding!) and just enjoyed moving from one place to the next. Most annoying thing was probably the moving NPCs blocking the path forward a lot.

Even the graphics have mostly held up well (couple of exceptions with the Mode 7 stuff not always working), and as said repeatedly the OST is phenomenal. I liked IV's and especially V's OST, but this one goes to so many places and has a bunch of throughlines within the music and impressive setpiece moments that it has to go on top of them.

I'll talk properly about my thoughts on the plot and characters once I've done the postgame but I'm really satisfied with how things turned out.

Thanks for the image GK, it still looks good!
Fiop posted...
I agree the final dungeon really is great and I do like how it forces you to use most of your characters. Relm is actually really good if you teach her magic, though if you havent been teaching her spells, shes better to leave behind. As for Setzer, theres actually a really interesting weapon he gets in the final dungeon called Fixed Dice, which gives him something unique.
Yeah I left Relm behind because she was my lowest levelled mage and had the fewest spells, and I was already set with a mage for each team. Setzer was at a lower level and I'm not fond of the Slot gimmick, so he was left too. Looking back the least useful members of the final dungeon for me were probably Gau and Mog. I'll try out Fixed Dice in the next dungeon!

As for Shadow, somebody mentioned sleeping with him in the party much earlier but I didn't see his dreams (except the one at Thamasa when we get him back in World of Ruin). Can I still get them now? I'll sleep a bunch at the Thamasa Inn if that helps, otherwise I'll just look them up online. I saw that he wasn't on the airship but it just seemed sad for him to give up on life right after we all proved to Kefka how life was worth living.

I did wonder about how the ending plays out without everyone around, especially Terra. I guess it makes sense that she's there anyway, though I thought maybe she fades away if you hadn't gotten her to realise what love meant for her. V had downer endings if the party all died but I guess this game had enough depressing moments already.


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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!
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SeabassDebeste
01/26/21 9:31:03 AM
#241:


congrats on finishing the game! excellent topic to follow

the final boss theme is dancing mad, which had four pieces to it - very baroque. and each of them sounds very kefka as well (with the possible exception of part 3, lol):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbXVNKtmWnc

kind of a shame that kefka himself is relatively shorter - that last part (around 12:00) is so much better than one-winged angel!
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yet all azuarc of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness
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Fiop
01/26/21 10:51:00 AM
#242:


I believe there's a quirk where you can't get Shadow's dreams in Thamasa. Other inns should work though.

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"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude." - 1 Cor 13:4-5
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ZeldaTPLink
01/26/21 12:50:05 PM
#243:


Cool topic. I also had a similar impression. Story and music are very good, graphics are fine, gameplay is fun but not very polished.

My main issue is how most characters become weak around the half point of the game, at least compared to Terra/Celes/Relm. Then again the game is so easy it doesn't matter much. But I kind of wish things like Bushido and Edgar's items felt strong the whole game. Some of them few like they last very little too, like Mog's dances. That said, I really enjoyed what they tried to accomplished, by having different mechanics for each character, besides just choosing moves. But they tried so many things some of them were fated not to work.

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WazzupGenius00
01/26/21 1:32:06 PM
#244:


The mobile version looks awful but one good thing they did was change the way Bushido works so that its not quite as bad (still not great though). There, you select what level of Bushido you want and then Cyan (or Gogo) will passively begin charging and do the attack when ready.

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Fiop
01/26/21 1:39:19 PM
#245:


Magic stat is the most important stat in FF6, which is why Terra, Celes, and Relm are pretty powerful. There are also a few things that use magic stat instead of other stats to determine damage, including most of Sabin's blitzes (at least the best ones do). The scaling that takes place for magic increases is generally more dramatic than other status.

Also, going back to an earlier comment, FF6 is my favorite FF, though I'll admit FF5 has the better battle system. I would give FF6 the edge over FF5 in most other ways though. I'm glad the Bravely series takes after FF5 instead of FF6 in that regard.

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"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude." - 1 Cor 13:4-5
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Earthshaker
01/26/21 2:21:41 PM
#246:


Opinion time from not-the-TC!

Moment of honesty here: gameplay wise, this is amongst my least favorite Final Fantasies, overshadowed only by 2. They did a good job making characters distinct in battle, but out of battle, the number of them made the lot of them have any characterization fall out of focus- Umaro, Mog, Gau, and Gogo could've been excised with no major loss, and even Sabin, Cyan, Terra and Locke felt extraneous in the World of Ruin. The various styles of combat (Bushido, Geodancing, equipment Relic alterations) are cool but unbalanced beyond "murder early game and useless late." or vice versa, and leveling magic via espers stinks compared to how 7, 9, and X handled it later.

Strago ranks up as one of the worst blue mages in the series for me, beat out only by FFXIV's minigame take on it and X's Kimahri (who is less "bluemage" and more "fills whatever niche you want to double up on.) This is offset, however, by Umaro being a much better berserker than 5's, and I really wish they'd revisit the archetype more. X-2 was the last time I remember Berserkers fondly as a sort of Evade tank.

I have other opinions why I dont like it but I'm still tired from recovery. Glad you enjoyed it and sorry to rain on the parade.


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redrocket
01/26/21 2:55:18 PM
#247:


Earthshaker posted...
Opinion time from not-the-TC!

Moment of honesty here: gameplay wise, this is amongst my least favorite Final Fantasies, overshadowed only by 2. They did a good job making characters distinct in battle, but out of battle, the number of them made the lot of them have any characterization fall out of focus- Umaro, Mog, Gau, and Gogo could've been excised with no major loss, and even Sabin, Cyan, Terra and Locke felt extraneous in the World of Ruin. The various styles of combat (Bushido, Geodancing, equipment Relic alterations) are cool but unbalanced beyond "murder early game and useless late." or vice versa, and leveling magic via espers stinks compared to how 7, 9, and X handled it later.

Strago ranks up as one of the worst blue mages in the series for me, beat out only by FFXIV's minigame take on it and X's Kimahri (who is less "bluemage" and more "fills whatever niche you want to double up on.) This is offset, however, by Umaro being a much better berserker than 5's, and I really wish they'd revisit the archetype more. X-2 was the last time I remember Berserkers fondly as a sort of Evade tank.

I have other opinions why I dont like it but I'm still tired from recovery. Glad you enjoyed it and sorry to rain on the parade.

Blue Magic is pretty weak here, especially compared to V and VII where it is godly.

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It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
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andylt
01/26/21 6:50:03 PM
#248:


I've bookmarked Dancing Mad to listen to at some point, thanks Seabass. It's a shame the last fight is over so quickly, they could've just doubled Kefka's HP for GBA or something!

Onto the postgame, our first goal is to... figure out where the next dungeon is. We were told to go to the Dragon's Horn, so I head to Dragon Neck Coliseum and wander around the pointy bits of land nearby, then try landing on each of the islands. One of them actually works, and we're into Dragons' Den!

It's another 3 party dungeon (yay!), I swap Gau out for Setzer but otherwise keep the parties the same as in Kefka's Tower. This place is pretty sprawling and filled with dozens of different enemies (including many names that I recall from V's Sealed Temple), and slightly more complex switch hitting and puzzle solving than Kefka's Tower. There's no AP gains here which is a little annoying but at least I don't have to continually keep an eye on and swap out Espers between the 12, I just lock everybody into a stat gain that seems good for them. The biggest change from the rest of the game becomes readily apparent when we face off against the Ice Dragon- the game has taken a big step up in difficulty!

The first boss takes me 4 tries to complete with team Celes, the Ice Dragon has replicated itself into 4 and retaliates to any attack on each of its bodies, much like an enemy back in the final dungeon. I soon learn that I should avoid any multi-hit attacks and just focus on one hit at a time, and this is how we get through this one. It's still not easy though, the moment we win everybody is frozen or dead. Still, I'll take it, and we get a new weapon for Setzer for our troubles.

I eventually get into the swing of how to manoeuvre in this place, the teams should be completely split up but I need to remain aware of their relative placements for all the puzzles here. Note: The Vilia enemy is very annoying. We mess around for a while getting one chest in the lava, and then it's Celes again who ends up facing our second boss, the Storm Dragon. This guy is much easier than the first, and we take it down first attempt. I breathe a sigh of relief and hope the first was a one off, but turns out that is not the case. We luckily find a save point and I keep Celes on top of it while the others run around so we can heal+save at a moment's notice.

Good thing, too, because team Sabin runs into the Earth Dragon and gets Quaked right away. Second try I cast Float on everyone before we begin, and the Dragon... casts 50Gs then immediately Magnitude 8s and Quakes us dead. Well that's just cheating. Luckily I have exactly 4 Angel Wings, which are a lifesaver in this fight. He can't ground us anymore but that doesn't stop him trying or following his pattern. Seriously I have no idea how you're supposed to do this without these Relics. It's not over and done just like that though, he heals himself with every Earth attack until I cast Float on him too, and we can't drop our guard because he has some nasty physical hits every now and then. After a while he starts raging and whacking us with several physical hits in one go, often knocking a character out, letting them Reraise, then knocking them down again before finishing his cycle. We barely scrape through just before he takes us down, phew. Seems like every Dragon here gives a weapon reward tailored to a specific character.

Next up team Terra enters a more well-built location and takes a ride on a turtle. She clicks open a door letting a Red Dragon out somewhere, and goes to fight the Blue Dragon. This fight isn't easy but having team Jump here helps a lot. Edgar spends most of his time in the air, we don't even buff him really, Umaro's fancy Berserker Ring means he straight up tosses party members at the Dragon for decent damage (lol), and Terra doesn't get time to attack as she's busy reviving/buffing as necessary. We're halfway through already!

I'm enjoying the difficulty increase here, particularly as each boss fight has its gimmick to figure out and it's not just artificially hard due to increased numbers or something. The next one up tests me, though. Sabin finds his way down to the Red Dragon, and this guy is straight up invincible to everything I try. Physical, Magic, special moves, nothing touches him. After a couple deaths I pay closer attention to the initial text box telling us the Dragon is draining its own life force to increase its strength, so decide to just try to stay alive as long as possible. I gear up the party with Flame Shields and a Red Jacket to nullify and absorb many of its attacks, and spend the entire time buffing and healing. It's a bit of a guessing game but eventually the plan works, and the Red Dragon depletes its own life force enough for us to win. Phew.

We then engage on a long stretch without any boss, picking up a bunch of items and Lores from the enemies here (seriously, there's so many Lores. It's only now I learn you can pick up one max per battle!). Some of the enemies are very annoying, I begin to really notice the encounter rate in the Labyrinth with multiple enemies you can't escape from, and there's a trio of Magic Dragons that love to triple cast Aero upon entry to battle. There's another guy who Spears us to death once so I just run from him in future encounters. Sabin and Celes run around and around, until eventually Sabin finds the Skull Dragon. We're a way off from a save so I don't fight this guy right now, instead heading back to get Celes up onto the save point so there's no danger. We also pick up a Celestriad, which drops all MP cost to 1! Woo! Though I'm gonna have to swap this around between each team lol.

I'll do the rest of this tomorrow, we still have Skull, Gold and Holy to do (I hit a switch which according to a gravestone should have unlocked some door to the Holy Dragon), and I'm not sure if there's more postgame after that. Probably. They're not letting up in this place!

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!
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MalcolmMasher
01/26/21 11:09:18 PM
#249:


Umaro's fancy Berserker Ring means he straight up tosses party members at the Dragon for decent damage (lol)

Fun fact: being thrown by Umaro cures Confuse and Sleep! I believe people have also found code that would make him automatically critical when tossing Mog, but in practice it doesn't work out.
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Fiop
01/26/21 11:18:02 PM
#250:


Apparently the reason the enemies dont give AP in the bonus dungeon is due to a glitch with formations that have a number higher than 256 or 512, or something like that. The formations in the main game are all under this but the new ones with new enemies had to be put in the higher range. One little known thing is Terras morph regenerates based on gaining AP after a battle, so if youre using it, you may notice it not recharging so much in this dungeon.

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"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude." - 1 Cor 13:4-5
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GuessMyUserName
01/26/21 11:19:52 PM
#251:


one of these days shadow will get some sleep

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Been a bad girl, I know I am. And I'm so hot, I need a fan. I don't want a boy, I need a man.
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redrocket
01/26/21 11:19:54 PM
#252:


Fiop posted...
Apparently the reason the enemies dont give AP in the bonus dungeon is due to a glitch with formations that have a number higher than 256 or 512, or something like that. The formations in the main game are all under this but the new ones with new enemies had to be put in the higher range. One little known thing is Terras morph regenerates based on gaining AP after a battle, so if youre using it, you may notice it not recharging so much in this dungeon.

That would also mean you couldnt uncurse the cursed shield in there!

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It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
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