Board 8 > Andy plays Final Fantasy VI

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andylt
01/12/21 2:22:55 PM
#102:


I haven't used Vanish but that's a cool exploit, I wouldn't like using that kind of thing on first playthrough though.

MalcolmMasher posted...
Strago is the primary reason why I didn't want to call Gau a Blue Mage earlier.
Lol yes I realised how silly I'd been when a villager mentioned Strago's class.

PunishedBen posted...
https://youtu.be/Ln9Sq7IOP3o
Oh man this is really good, thanks for linking.

Before jetting up to the Floating Continent it's time for our traditional world tour, starting right at Thamasa. People are sad but the only notable new thing here is a monster hunter named Gungho (lol) calling Strago pathetic for giving up on some hunt. Gotta come back here later I guess! We swap another letter/potion between the long distance couple, I follow a lead from Albrook and get Seraph as a summon (Raise is now easier to get, yes!), and there's not much else except the notable absence of the Empire everywhere. Did Kefka kill them all during his power surge? There's an empty mech in South Figaro. Has the Empire officially disbanded? Someone in Maranda mentions being an ex-soldier, but it's odd that there's literally none around. Albrook's citizens are the only ones to note the giant floating island in the sky, and that's only because it's blocking the sun for them, lol.

Last stop before the plot is to get Mog his underwater dance, which ends up being a pretty long excursion, not helped by me going the wrong way and taking the ship to South Figaro >_>. We end up with 7 total dances but there's still an empty slot, and Strago learns zero Blue Magics as we just take out the random enemies too fast. Finally time to suit up and take on Gestahl, I have my team of 4 ready to go then I discover we're only taking 3 up there. Aw. I eventually decide to dump Terra as I want a big physical presence, so our party is Celes, Locke and Sabin. I don't like leaving out potentially plot-relevant characters so I do kinda regret this. Before getting there, we have a series of easy fights on the airship culminating in another fight with Ultros. How did he- you know what, it's not worth asking.

Our party is far too strong for Ultros these days, Locke in particular is a great damage dealer with his dual wielding and Ultima Weapon equipped. His buddy Typhon lasts a little longer and ends up blasting us all away to face the Air Force... as we're falling through the sky? Alright! This thing takes a while, I play it sensibly and zap defensive spells on everyone and focus on one target at a time. It ends up spawning a Bit right as I've cued up two Curas, which is how I learn that the Bit absorbs all magic. Thankfully it goes down pretty easily and we can heal again, and we soon take the boss out, and... land on the Floating Continent. How high up was the airship when we fell?! This sequence was good but as far as air cannon landings go I probably prefer the one in V.

Shadow is here, which is why we had a team of 3, and he joins us once more. He gets plenty of chance to learn some spells because this place is packed full of chunky enemies. As always Locke is super useful, and Sabin's Aura Cannon is still terrific. I stay here far too long- it takes me an embarrassingly long time to notice the very last little path we have to open up after the airship. Thankfully it's a good grinding spot and we get some Fuma Shurikens which I remember being really good in V. The party learns all the spells I want them to and level up a bit, and in my frustration I eventually start skipping battles (I had avoided escaping entirely up until now as I remember the special weapons in the last game). There's also a tough monster-in-a-box (didn't note the name) guarding a weapon for Shadow, which is nice to get.

I finally find the last path, and it's onto our boss fight with... Ultima Weapon. Cool! This was mentioned somewhere way back along with the sword, but it's a shock to face a creature with this name at this point of the game! Ultima's arrogance is a little unearned as we don't have much of a problem here. We set up Haste/Shell/Protect/Regen on everyone and go to town, Cura-ing when necessary. There's some fancy spells but nothing that's a real threat to us, and the Weapon eventually falls to our own Ultima Weapon. Shadow leaves us, and we arrive at our climax.

Gestahl and Kefka aren't too surprised to see us, and the Emperor puts Locke and Sabin out of commission to have a chat with Celes. Man am I glad I brought her with me, there's a lot of stuff for her here! Gestahl 'offers' to have Kefka and Celes breed a new empire of mages, and Celes manages to avoid throwing up at the notion. She is tasked with killing our crew, but instead stabs Kefka. This is a cool moment for her, but it turns out drawing blood from Kefka is what pushes him over the edge, and he breaks entirely, yelling at her (I've never seen the term 'little brat' sound so sinister) and decides to take things into his own hands. Gestahl warns him against destroying the world but Kefka's past caring, and the two have their long overdue showdown.

Gestahl tries to put Kefka out of his misery but fails miserably, and after a part-comical part-horrifying sequence Kefka finally zaps the old man and kicks him off the island and out of the narrative. It seems I've been misreading Kefka the whole game- I was assuming he was putting in some kind of Joker performance and had a secret plan the entire time, but it seems more like he's making it up as he goes along. He genuinely seems to assume Celes will betray her allies at the drop of a hat like he would, and everything that happens here seems utterly spontaneous on his part, he does this not out of some grand evil plan but just childish petulance. He has great power and a total lack of morals, and that's all that is needed. This puts a pretty different spin on how he's been so far for me.

Kefka moves the Warring Triad around to create chaos, and Shadow jumps back into the scene (where'd he run off to, anyway?) to try and hold him back. The land starts to crumble as we flee the scene, facing a couple of new enemies (am I reading into things or is there a clown-like nature to these guys). I miss the chest here (RIP whatever's in there) and get to the exit with over 4 minutes to spare. The escape music is great, a sinister remix of the main theme. At this point I will give the biggest of shout-outs to Grand Kirby and Mr Crispy for warning me not to exit here, I would have absolutely fled at the first chance. If it had said 'Wait for Shadow' first I would've waited, but it doesn't and he explicitly tells us not to wait for him! Still the 4 minute wait is unnerving, but sure enough Shadow shows up with 5 seconds to spare. I wonder how many people lost him here their first time playing!

We escape to the ship, but Shadow must have failed to stop Kefka because the land is falling apart anyway. Literally. One guy gets slammed between two pieces of land (oof), and the continents across the world break apart. The Blackjack splits, too, and everybody falls off. Not sure how waiting for Shadow will have helped him tbh >_>.

On that day the world was changed forever...

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andylt
01/12/21 2:27:06 PM
#103:


Knowing the term 'World of Ruin' I figured something like this would happen, but it's done really well. Every FF of this era has had multiple world maps, but this one is... the same world, just annihilated. V cool. Panning over a still sea at sunset, it is Celes who we join waking in her bed. Weirdly this makes sense despite her not being the lead, maybe because she was a major part of the last story beat, or maybe just because I like her. Cid of all people is here, and informs her that she's been in a coma (pretty much) for exactly a year. Cid paints a brutal picture of the barren world we are now in, and the two decide to live their lives as best they can as pseudo-grandparent and grandchild.

Celes is tasked with fetching some fish for an exhausted Cid. It's quite a comedown of a task after what we just had, a fitting intro into Act 2. This would be a new disc in the PSX era. I'm kinda surprised we have all our items still, half-figured we'd be starting from scratch. Celes brings him fish, then there's nothing else to do so I go back and bring more fish, several times. Cid's message changes to thanking us, and then on one return trip he doesn't wake up at all.

Celes breaks down in (long overdue) despair, and takes herself to the nearby cliffs to end the misery as everyone else has. This scene is tragically beautiful, a dark echo of Maria's balcony in the opera right down to the framing and music. I am caught off guard when she actually throws herself off the cliff, and expect a Game Over to come up. Honestly a really really good scene, one of my favs so far. Poor Celes does not get any rest though, as she washes up at the very same beach she was just at. A lone gull is her saviour, by chance having its wing wrapped in Locke's bandana. Knowing other human life still exists, she has a renewed sense of purpose and moves ahead. I leave things here.

I'm really glad I kept going a bit after the climax, it was done really well but this intro sequence to the new world is very very strong, things are gonna be much darker from here I guess. Good use of Cid, too, didn't really think much of him but they needed an established character for this bit and it worked well.

Locke and Celes have had a connection for a while obviously, but I've not read it as a love story as such (though I think that's what they've been going for). Locke is acting out of guilt over Rachel, at least at first, and Celes seems to feel general guilt about her past and confusion about what to do with someone who is genuinely kind to her. This scene, making Locke her tether to reality and bringing her back from the brink, is the best thing they could've done if they want me to buy that relationship as a crucial thing going forward. I am very fond of Celes but she's such an internal character, I've been really hoping they delve deeper into her backstory (there's also the relationship between her and Terra). Fingers crossed. In fact the one thing I've been hoping for more than anything else is more character depth+development all around, there's so many chars and a lot of them just fade out after their intro so splitting them all up again is a great choice.

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RaidenGarai
01/12/21 2:39:58 PM
#104:


The part with Cid can actually change.

You can save Cid by only feeding him fast moving fish, and he'll give you a raft and just sit on the island by himself after.

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Leonhart4
01/12/21 2:41:14 PM
#105:


The transition to WoR is so well done.

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LordoftheMorons
01/12/21 2:48:49 PM
#106:


Glad you were warned about Shadow!

I actually am not sure Ive ever not done what Raiden notes in his spoiler (though I might have seen the scene you did before resetting my game to redo it?)

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Fiop
01/12/21 2:49:34 PM
#107:


FYI, if you didn't have Celes with you for the Floating Continent, she would have just appeared there when you approached Kefka/Gestahl, and the scene would have been the same. She would have been your 4th party member for the timed escape too.

7 dances is the most you could have gotten up to this point, so you didn't miss any. You can get the last one later.

There aren't really any missable Lores in the GBA version, due to the extra optional content. There is one that one of the last bosses uses that's more annoying to get if you don't get it there, though (not that it's especially good).

I don't think there's anything like the Brave Blade or Chicken Knife in this game, unless there's something in the extra content I'm forgetting. There shouldn't be any downside (or upside) to running.

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mnkboy907
01/12/21 2:54:09 PM
#108:


The music as you're fleeing the Floating Continent is one of my favorites from the game.

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SeabassDebeste
01/12/21 2:56:30 PM
#109:


the world of balance is so great

world of ruin is also good, but it's obviously a very different game from here on out!
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GuessMyUserName
01/12/21 3:08:31 PM
#110:


What Raiden mentions is fun but yeah I never give any heads-up about it because really the scene you got is the much better version anyhow

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SSBM_Guy
01/12/21 3:08:47 PM
#111:


World of Ruin is the main reason I'd want a FF6 remake

If you thought Midgar was done well, a truly remade World of Ruin could be GOAT tier

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Jakyl25
01/12/21 3:18:24 PM
#112:


RaidenGarai posted...
The part with Cid can actually change.

You can save Cid by only feeding him fast moving fish, and he'll give you a raft and just sit on the island by himself after.


I actually kind of dislike that you can do this.
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RaidenGarai
01/12/21 3:18:36 PM
#113:


I only got the scene Andy went with once, and that was just to see what happened for myself. I was tipped off ahead of time about how to avoid that, and always do other way.

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Grand Kirby
01/12/21 3:45:58 PM
#114:


Yes, a lot of people like to hint that you can keep Cid alive ahead of time in playthrough topics and I kind of dislike it. While it is a neat easter egg, it changes absolutely nothing, and dying makes the entire sequence more impactful and is what will happen to most first-time players, so I wouldn't want to recommend it to someone going through their initial play.

andylt posted...
I wonder how many people lost him here their first time playing!
On the other hand you could say the same thing about this. I don't think any first-time player is expected to save Shadow. It really is one of those incredibly obtuse secrets that Final Fantasy likes to do a lot. But losing him as a character is a pretty huge deal and kind of upsetting to learn afterwards as a player, so I feel it's appropriate to mention it whenever someone is playing for the first time so they can avoid it.

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SeabassDebeste
01/12/21 4:16:16 PM
#115:


yeah, i've played the game twice and have never saved shadow. IIRC there are very few savepoints on the floating continent?
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Leonhart4
01/12/21 4:16:40 PM
#116:


You can save right before that final sequence.

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Fiop
01/12/21 4:36:04 PM
#117:


Also, a fun random fact: Terra and Celes are almost never both in the same party in the first part of the game. The only parts they can be together are when you're ready to do the floating continent, and very briefly in the sequence where you're defending Banon with multiple parties in Narshe.

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andylt
01/12/21 4:55:20 PM
#118:


Oh I hadn't thought about Cid being saved, it seemed such a natural flow for Celes's arc having him die there. And I really do love that scene. Might look up the alternative, or do it myself as I think I have a save there, but I'll stick to the dead one for the story. Glad I didn't know about that one and did know about Shadow, thanks for hiding/revealing that as necessary, all!

And thanks Fiop for saying I can flee without consequence, that will be handy. Celes showing up makes sense thinking about it, not sure how you could do that sequence without her. I mean technically you could argue she causes the destruction as if she didn't make Kefka bleed he wouldn't have lost his mind like that.

SeabassDebeste posted...
yeah, i've played the game twice and have never saved shadow. IIRC there are very few savepoints on the floating continent?

There's just the two save points I found there, one at the start and one shortly before Ultima Weapon. I didn't check if you could head back there during the escape but figured not.

Fiop posted...
Also, a fun random fact: Terra and Celes are almost never both in the same party in the first part of the game. The only parts they can be together are when you're ready to do the floating continent, and very briefly in the sequence where you're defending Banon with multiple parties in Narshe.

I hadn't thought of this, but I did note that they've only interacted like twice and both times were awkward acknowledgements of their mysterious shared past. I'm very hyped to see what the World of Ruin has in store!

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RaidenGarai
01/12/21 4:58:04 PM
#119:


Six minutes!

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GuessMyUserName
01/12/21 8:43:13 PM
#120:


Grand Kirby posted...
On the other hand you could say the same thing about this. I don't think any first-time player is expected to save Shadow. It really is one of those incredibly obtuse secrets that Final Fantasy likes to do a lot. But losing him as a character is a pretty huge deal and kind of upsetting to learn afterwards as a player, so I feel it's appropriate to mention it whenever someone is playing for the first time so they can avoid it.
Can't wait to mention a fun fact about this regarding an SNES script bug in WoR with Shadow rescued

but I'll save that fun fact for when we get there!

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BlAcK TuRtLe
01/12/21 11:02:57 PM
#121:


Having played this game originally back in 94/95 as a 7/8 year old who didn't have the internet, I can confirm that I had no idea you could save Shadow or Cid until much much later on in life

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colliding
01/13/21 9:18:26 AM
#123:


I had it spoiled for me by this bad boy, which I got mostly for the amano art throughout (and because I bought the guide for every game I played back then).



coincidentally, peter olafson did NOT know you could save Cid

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Grand Kirby
01/13/21 6:40:24 PM
#124:


I guess it wasn't Cid's only hope for survival.

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andylt
01/13/21 7:07:41 PM
#125:


Lol I remember official player guides always getting things wrong back in the day. Kinda miss it in a way.

Celes, vowing to make Cid proud, takes the raft he kept in the basement (Wasn't gonna tell her about that while he was alive? OK) and sails to what used to be the southern continent. We get a better picture of how life is these days (bad!), and a bunch of leads. Powerful monsters have been let loose, including 8 dragons, Humbaba and Deathgaze. Kefka now resides in a tower built from pieces of land that fell apart, as an almost god-like figure. Apparently he casts his light of judgment on those who speak ill of him, burning their homes and such down. An NPC even mentions having sensed Kefka's gaze shortly before we witness this in Tzen. He's just Sauron now, huh. Somebody made a portrait of the Emperor (I guess Kefka) and of something else, but sent it to Jidoor, and there's a cult of Kefka with their own tower somewhere.

We reunite with Sabin (yay) after a rather embarrassing attempt at rescuing a child from a collapsing home- Celes gets petrified mere steps from the exit, forcing a retry. As I curse the game for this unforeseeable trick, I talk to an NPC I must've missed the first time who warns me about this precise thing. Oops. I figure Sabin is the fixed companion here, and it's not because he was one of my mains/in the Floating Continent party. Still it's nice luck for me, I give him the dual wield relic and he is now very very strong.

Being the rebel that I am, I avoid the game signposting me to Mobliz and instead head up to Nikeah, where we are stopped and told about 4 espers fleeing the Magitek Factory way back when. We also meet a band of thieves led by Gerad, who bears a striking resemblance to Edgar. TBH Celes is apparently a dead ringer for Maria so there's not a guarantee here, but we follow the anagram'd boy anyway over to South Figaro, and then through a cave. It's reassuring to see that the AI gets stuck behind moving NPCs just like I do. Notably Siegfried is in this cave with them.

Hopping over not!Ghido we find ourselves in the basement of the sunken Figaro Castle, with its occupants remarkably still (barely) alive after a year underground. We head through a mini-dungeon and Edgar abruptly drops the facade once the thieves are out of sight (I like how matter of fact he is about it) and the boss is upon us. Thankfully the game auto-equipped him. I play this fight poorly, trying to buff everybody up early when it soon becomes clear the correct way is to just bash at each tentacle until they become a more manageable number, and Haste people when they are Slow'd. We're never really in danger and the boss goes down, and the Figaros are now reunited. Edgar explains he didn't want to freak the thieves out and lets them leave with the treasure, a decision I very much like. Medieval JRPGs often go way too hard on the letter of the law stuff, especially those with monarchist leanings. Go, Edgar (away from women and children)!

The Chancellor and some other characters weirdly repeat their same dialogue from before the world fell apart, but the weirdest part of this whole sequence is how Edgar and Sabin do not address each other once. I guess I could've gotten here without Sabin but until now the game has had a lot of split dialogue depending on who you have with you, and it's just... super weird that these two brothers who are seeing each other for presumably the first time in a year don't say a word. In another game I'd assume this was due to rushed development having them cut corners later on, but this was a retranslation done years after the original and the game has been so solid with this kinda stuff until now. Something to keep an eye on.

Not knowing where to go I head back east and find Terra in ruined Mobliz. She declines to join us, apparently on the verge of some revelation that she doesn't quite reach while we're here. There's a brief fake boss battle with her showing that she has no ability/desire to fight anymore, so we send the Humbaba running and receive Fenrir as a reward. Very interesting to have Terra out of commission again, curious what this is building towards. Or maybe she really is gone from the party! (If she weren't the ostensible lead I could believe this). 19 years old she acts as the de facto mother to the orphans left in this village (The two lovebirds are 17, you'd think they could lend more of a hand!). Sadly the soldier boy has passed, I had figured we'd get some big payoff to his exchanges with his Marandan lover but nope. Maybe I missed a cue earlier or the game is just really laying down how bad life is here.

It takes me far too long to realise my next goal, to take Figaro Castle to Kohlingen. Locke isn't here, he's off looking for the treasure to revive Rachel. We were told ages ago that the treasure was in Vector, but Vector isn't there anymore and it's about where Kefka's (excuse me, Cefca) Tower is. So where is he... We also get info that another friend is up in the new Coliseum, and Cyan has gone towards Maranda. A running theme of this world is each area having some kind of memory flashback to days gone by, not for any plot purpose but just because, a nice touch.

We do find Setzer, and Celes inspires him (and the bartender) to build a new dream of a better world, and he takes us to a very elaborate Tomb of his deceased friend. This is a cool dungeon (with good music), undead spells everywhere but every enemy seems to drop Holy Water so it's no trouble. We solve the gravestone puzzle ('The world is square' backwards, hmm) and get a relic for double XP, and fight a tougher version of the game's very first boss guarding a treasure chest. The actual dungeon boss isn't too much trouble (this game hasn't properly stepped up difficulty yet in the way the others did, I'm scared for whenever that hits), and we get a good scene showing Setzer and Darril's past culminating in the acquisition of our new/Darril's old airship, the Falcon.

Celes is already talking about taking on Kefka (she's come a long way in a short time since attempting suicide, guess she's single minded now), but we are distracted by a pigeon. Locke's bandana, maybe? That'll have to wait for next time. I feel like I'm speeding through things here much faster than before, and the underlying worry of mine is that this section of the game might not be quite as developed as the first part. There's much less meainingful character interaction so far (Terra's sequence didn't even give a character portrait for whoever was talking to her) but the bits we have had are good (Edgar, Setzer), hopefully my fears are unfounded.

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Mr Crispy
01/13/21 7:23:28 PM
#126:


this portion of the game is nonlinear after getting the airship, and you can go straight to the final dungeon (but it's not recommended due to the gimmick).

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Fiop
01/13/21 7:30:20 PM
#127:


andylt posted...
this game hasn't properly stepped up difficulty yet in the way the others did, I'm scared for whenever that hits
If you jump ahead to some of the tougher dungeons, it can be tougher. As Mr Crispy said, this part of the game is nonlinear. That said, this game is very easy to break if you know what about some certain overpowered things. I won't spoil how, exactly but it's much easier to break this game than 5.

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redrocket
01/13/21 8:05:52 PM
#128:


Mr Crispy posted...
this portion of the game is nonlinear after getting the airship, and you can go straight to the final dungeon (but it's not recommended due to the gimmick).

Yes, welcome to Open World Fantasy

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Grimlyn
01/13/21 8:07:20 PM
#129:


yup once you've got the Falcon you can go beat the game now at any time!

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ZeldaTPLink
01/13/21 8:23:11 PM
#130:


Not finished reading, but some bits.

Shadow doesn't reeally need magic, especially at floating continent, because he has scrolls.

Relm, on the other hand, needs magic badly. Sketch is one of the worst abilities in the game, but Relm has the highest magic stat of the whole party. I had Relm with Celes/Edgar last time I played Floating Continent and it was a joke. Relm/Shadow/Celes just murdered everything. Edgar was almost useless lol.
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ZeldaTPLink
01/13/21 8:38:01 PM
#131:


Floating continent is very good, though. The same just gives you a long dungeon where you can feel like a badass but also have a hard time with some optional bosses if you want to. Kind of hope I could change party more times in it though.

I think I saved Cid once by save scumming just to see it, but in my 2nd playthrough I didn't. It's almost impossible to figure out on your own. And I agree the "suicide" scene is great.
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GuessMyUserName
01/13/21 8:40:30 PM
#132:


even knowing and trying to get Cid to live yeah doesn't always work out

I was surprised by I forget who but another FF6 playthrough topic someone did it right without the knowledge let alone intending to keep him along

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ZeldaTPLink
01/13/21 8:43:03 PM
#133:


Man I love the scene where you fly on the Falcon for the first time.
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ZeldaTPLink
01/13/21 8:47:06 PM
#134:


First time I played this I dropped halfway through reuniting the party in WoR. Didn't enjoy the open gameplay that much, I like story driven games more. Then later I played a 2nd time and beat it.

But most of the "optional" stuff in WoR is prety good, there are some fun dungeons too. I agree the game should have done a better job at giving dialogue options between characters, though. Something akin to the skits you get in Tales games.

But well, this is an SNES game, so can't expect that much.
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Grand Kirby
01/13/21 9:28:42 PM
#135:


Yeah. This point in the game is like final act in Final Fantasy V; you technically can just jump straight to the final dungeon right now if you wish, but you're expected to explore the world doing sidequests to gain more power and experience.

That's also a bit of the reason why the plot is not as strong now, you have the ability to do things in whatever order you like, or skip certain things, so the game can't rigidly enforce storylines like before.

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mnkboy907
01/14/21 12:25:58 AM
#136:


Not only is there a lot of content in running around recollecting the party, but the WoR also contains a bunch of optional areas and scenes, plus a whole lot more espers to collect. So even after you reunite the party, there's still a good amount left you can do before beating the game.

IIRC that guy talking about four espers is referring to the new ones that were added in the GBA version.

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Earthshaker
01/14/21 1:26:24 AM
#137:


Yep, you get to reunite the party. Also, two other characters of questionable usability.

I dont know if this holds true in Advance, but (Esper question) do you lose out on a speed boosting esper completely if you transform the one?

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Grimlyn
01/14/21 1:50:15 AM
#138:


Earthshaker posted...
I dont know if this holds true in Advance, but (Esper question) do you lose out on a speed boosting esper completely if you transform the one?
Gigantuar/Cactuar is even better, Speed +2

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SeabassDebeste
01/14/21 6:58:20 AM
#139:


aww yeah let's go!
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andylt
01/14/21 4:54:26 PM
#140:


No playing today, but reading the comments I am excited now to see what open world FF is like! It's been a more striking difference than I expected so far.

Quick q, I'm not sure if I should know this already: At what point did Celes switch sides? Gestahl claimed Kefka was lying about her in the Magitek Factory but he was lying to us that whole scene, and Cid was the one who first claimed she was still working for the Empire. My best guess is that the initial betrayal was planned but she sincerely changed sides herself (or had already planned to and used the opportunity she was given), but idk I don't think they were explicit on that. If this is addressed later in the game just ignore this question, it just feels like the plot is past that point so I figured I'd ask. Also I would like it if they sincerely tackled Celes's complicity in the Empire's acts before she switched, there's been nothing on it since she joined us and it's a little odd.

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redrocket
01/14/21 5:35:01 PM
#141:


I dunno about Celes. When I first played this as a kid I just immediately assumed Keka was lying completely and never gave it a second thought. But now, Im leaning more towards your conclusion.

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MalcolmMasher
01/14/21 7:13:05 PM
#142:


I believe Sabin does talk to Edgar once ("Don't treat us like strangers anymore!" or some such) but it is kind of jarring that Celes takes the lead on talking to Sabin's twin.

In the World of Balance, if you keep helping the injured soldier send messages (you have to rest after each one for a reply to arrive) he'll eventually give you an accessory that lets your recover HP by walking around. It is not particularly useful. I believe that if you put off the sidequest until you get the airship, then his girlfriend in Maranda also gets updated dialogue for each letter.

I've always figured that Kefka is one hundred percent lying about Celes in order to sow discord in the party, myself. I mean. It's Kefka.

Now, I do think it's best to give dubious claims the benefit of the doubt in video games, if the game itself doesn't go out of its way to contradict or call attention to them. After all, the writers decided to put it in, we might as well assume they had a reason, right? But in this case, we do get explicitly told that Kefka was lying. To be fair, the statement is made by Emperor Gestahl during the banquet, so its veracity is questionable. It is conceivable that Gestahl, who still hopes to persuade Celes to be part of his New World Order, is lying to the party about whether or not they can trust Celes in the hope that he can get her to betray them... even though that didn't really work out for him the first time. It is also possible that Kefka is full of crap. I know where I'd put my money.

Plus, Cid switches sides like thirty seconds after reuniting with Celes, it seems like it's pretty easy for people to go "Gosh, I just realized the Empire is evil!"
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mnkboy907
01/14/21 8:04:24 PM
#143:


In the SNES Japanese version, weren't they more overt in showing Celes had actually been beaten while locked up in South Figaro?

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Fiop
01/14/21 8:10:49 PM
#144:


mnkboy907 posted...
In the SNES Japanese version, weren't they more overt in showing Celes had actually been beaten while locked up in South Figaro?
That was all SNES versions showing that. IIRC, it was then censored in Japan for the GBA version, because of some national incident and that version carried over everywhere.

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Grimlyn
01/14/21 8:27:27 PM
#145:


yeap it was in the original SNES releases then removed for Japan in the GBA release... and just again kept out in the new localization as well.

btw while we're talking about the South Figaro scene it's fun to point out Celes's different reactions to Locke depending on his uniform - particularly if you rescue her in a soldier's uniform she responds with a classix Star Wars reference :D



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andylt
01/15/21 5:51:46 PM
#146:


Ha, nice little details there.

MalcolmMasher posted...
I've always figured that Kefka is one hundred percent lying about Celes in order to sow discord in the party, myself. I mean. It's Kefka.
Kefka's not the reason I believed it, it's Cid who first says something like 'Oh hey Celes you're back from infiltrating the Returners?' or something, I know he's still loyal to the Empire there but it doesn't seem like he's trying to trick anyone. And Celes' reaction herself isn't one of indignance or disgust, it seems more like she still feels guilty but determined to prove that she knows where her loyalties lie now. Idk, I'd have to rewatch the scene in question.

So the pigeon takes us to Maranda, where Lola is still receiving letters from her beloved despite his passing. There's a couple hints around here; a thief mentions something about looking to the right of the treasure chest. Which chest? No idea, I don't see one around here. Something to bear in mind. Another mentions Cactuars (!) in the nearby desert, and a very big one too. I don't recall Cactuars in IV/V, was this their first appearance? And of course VIII took Jumbo Cactuar from here.

We follow the next pigeon up to Zozo to track down Cyan, but on the way we stop in at the Opera House, where we fight an Earth Dragon that longs to be on stage. This takes a couple tries, but once I remember to continually cast Float we get through. He hits hard with a bunch of spells but with Float and the correct buffs we have enough time to heal up between attacks and he wastes turns using 50Gs, thankfully we can simulcast Float on the whole party. Once down, our reward is... remembering that there are 7 more dragons to take down. Oh yeah. Seems that's all there is here (The hopes of an Act 2 Opera scene are drifting further away...), so we head to Jidoor on another detour.

The music has changed here! Speaking of, I like the new world map music and the new depressing theme tune for towns. We get another hint- Deathgaze cannot heal between battles, so whenever we face that guy we can just continually game over and eventually he'll go down I guess? We'll see when we get to that. There's very heavy hints that Relm is here in the artist Owzer's Mansion (makes sense), so we head there. Some of the paintings come to life and attack us, though we sadly don't get to face off against Gestahl this way. Gestahl's painting does tell us that a legendary treasure is hidden 'where the mountains make a star'. It's times like this I'm glad I have a playthrough topic to refer back to whenever I forget things.

This turns out to be a full on dungeon, a very cool and creepy one at that. There's minor puzzles around and paintings coming to life everywhere, the creepiest thing of all being a painting of Maria that seems to turn and face a different way depending on where we're seeing it from. Eventually we reach Owzer and Relm, and a demon who is possessing the goddess painting Relm is currently working on. Cue boss!

The setup to this boss is great, and the presentation even better. Unfortunately it is a little annoying how long the boss takes to shift forms and how frequently it does so, though it still looks cool. It's particularly frustrating when it has cast Last Kiss on a party member and the count continues to decrease while the demon slowly shifts its picture >_> The fight itself is pretty fun, it's unique and gimmicky without being too annoying, though it seems to have a ridiculous amount of HP. Eventually it goes down, we get Lakshmi as an Esper (Curaga!), and Relm apparently joins us. (I was wondering where she went until I checked the airship and she was just there lol, guess that's it for any kind of dialogue from her)

We leave the mansion (a villager mentioned Owzer's diary but I couldn't find it), and check out the Auction House before leaving. We fail to get a miniature airship model but come back in and buy Zona Seeker for 10k Gil. Two espers in one trip, cool! Finally we resume our journey to find Cyan, which takes us to Zozo. The dead bodies from a year ago haven't moved or decomposed one bit, and nor have the enemies levelled up. We follow a tip from the only honest man in this town (as someone somewhere informed us) and open up a path to Mt. Zozo, full of high evade enemies. I have one Sniper Eye, and guaranteed hits in the form of Tools, Blitz and Magic. Mugbear lives up to its name, so I can't really flee battles here without going broke. At one point Setzer's Slots spawn Bahamut for Mega Flare.

Past the save point a switch releases a Storm Dragon, which is our next boss. This thing takes a while. There's no handy Float option this time, though I do manage to Debilitate it with Edgar to give it a Holy weakness and then swap weapons on Sabin to use Dragon Claw for massive damage. Magic spells don't do too much (I hope we can get attacking -agas soon) so it's mainly healing+buffing and doing physical damage. 2/8 down, not looking forward to the harder ones but hey I should be able to swap Setzer out by then.

We find Cyan at the summit after reading his last letter and are rewarded with a nice scene. He has realised that he's been clinging to the past much like Lola, and vows to look to the future instead. He also has a copy of Bushido in the Bedroom. Guess he really does want to move on, good for you sir! He tells us Gau is probably in the Veldt (I wonder if he hints somebody else's location if we already have Gau here), and joins the party. Aw, I do like Cyan. A shame if he's silent forever from now on >_>

Before leaving things today I take a trip to the Coliseum, expecting Shadow to be here. He is not (unless he shows up in the fights), our only pal is... Ultros. He shows up in the darndest places, huh. I give the fights a go, putting up a Fuma Shuriken, and Sabin gets immediately wiped by Incinerate from a Chaos Dragon. Oh boy, if that's one of the 8 I have to face then I'm gonna have to come back better prepared! I also head down to the desert near Maranda to try and hunt some Cactuar, and indeed do manage to get a few. 10AP is very juicy indeed, sadly these encounters are punctuated with dozens upon dozens of Slagworms (lol), which I have to run from as their repeated Sandstorms are just too much. No sign of the big guy, will have to come back another time. I also check out Thamasa but neither Strago nor Gungho are here, I might swap in Relm and come back to see if there's different dialogue but probably not worth it. One NPC mentions Ebot's Rock being above ground, but there doesn't seem to be anything over there for now.

Next time I shall check Narshe as an NPC suggested I can finally thaw its Esper, and then see what else we have on the Northern continent. Doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of world we haven't touched on given how many party members we still need to get!

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Jakyl25
01/15/21 5:59:08 PM
#147:


andylt posted...
Deathgaze cannot heal between battles, so whenever we face that guy we can just continually game over and eventually he'll go down I guess? We'll see when we get to that.


Hes the sort of enemy that flees after so many turns
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redrocket
01/15/21 6:10:52 PM
#148:


The Earth Dragon rewarded you with a Magus Rod. Its the ultimate weapon for Relm and Strago.

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Grand Kirby
01/15/21 6:14:16 PM
#149:


andylt posted...
And of course VIII took Jumbo Cactuar from here.
Actually, it was the other way around. While this game was the first appearance of Cactuars, the Jumbo Cactuar was added to the Advance version.

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Mr Crispy
01/15/21 6:25:43 PM
#150:


One thing I ended up seeing when looking up missables is that apparently this version of FF6 made the reward for deathgaze missable, if you don't beat it before doing the bonus dungeon. Thought I should say something, since you ended up beating the harder versions of Omega/Shinryuu added to the GBA version before the original ones in ff5.

What you fight and what you win in the coliseum depends on what you bet so you should probably try to experiment a bit (don't remember the betting list, and not really wanting to look up a list right now >_>). If you bet something shitty, you fight Tyhpon and he tries to sneeze you out of the battle. Might want to save first before experimenting since IDK if you can get everything back.

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Fiop
01/15/21 6:48:09 PM
#151:


The Storm dragon is one of the harder dragon fights, despite the game inching you to get Cyan first. The chaos dragon is not one of the 8 dragons.

Be aware that Deathgaze does randomly attack you while flying and he does have some hard hitting attacks, so it would behoove you to save a lot. Also, IIRC he generally opens up with level 5 death, so make sure at least one character survives that too.

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ZeldaTPLink
01/16/21 6:49:30 AM
#152:


Iirc coliseum grinding is really good but also a little game breaking. You can get some ultimate equipment early. It takes some specific strategies to beat certain enemies though.

I think its main point is getting the dragoon items. Edgar and Mog become pretty crappy in WoR, and the way you keep them going is either teach them magic (which is kind of weak) or give them a lance and dragoon boots/ring (don't remember if those were the item names) to turn them into jumping single target monsters. One of the items is in the coliseum, the other I think is easier to find.
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