Current Events > C/D: The far left and the far right are the exact same kind of people.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Communist China and keeping a million ethnic minorities in slave concentration camps is proof of how awful the far left is.

Only someone ignorant or sociopathic and racist would defend that.

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FlameTurtle posted...

"I want to care about social issues, but then I saw a meme online."

You're not going to let that go? You know for a fucking fact that lots of far leftists joke about "the tolerant left." I'm sorry that mentioning the meme related to it felt like the most easily relatable way to express that?

bobbaaay posted...

You're not going to let that go? You know for a fucking fact that lots of far leftists joke about "the tolerant left."

No, I'm going to keep bringing it up because it's very funny


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ColdOne666 posted...

Communist China and keeping a million ethnic minorities in slave concentration camps is proof of how awful the far left is.

Only someone ignorant or sociopathic and racist would defend that.

I can't believe something this stupid was said this seriously.

Wait it's you so i can believe it

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FlameTurtle posted...

"I want to care about social issues, but then I saw a meme online."

"Yeah the far-right are the most prolific terrorists in the country, but I still feel like I can be conservative. However, the other side has people that say some dumb bullshit, so they need to iron that out if they want me to consider agreeing with them."

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Just when you thought it couldn't get any better, we get a "China is far-left because of the word 'communism'" take.

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King_Hutton posted...

Explanations as to how murdering people isnt equivalent to getting banned from Facebook?

You need to stick to your words and ignore me.

ZMythos posted...

I don't give a fuck what they say. Anyone who subscribes to horseshoe theory or says the left and right are the same should step out of their bubble. Besides, radical centrists are more likely to actually harbor far right beliefs so nobody should listen to them regardless

I don't know how you can see the worst out of a certain group and won't for another. Talk about stepping outside a bubble, dude.

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Veggeta X posted...

I don't know how you can see the worst out of a certain group and won't for another. Talk about stepping outside a bubble, dude.

"Let's spend taxpayer money on healthcare" = "let's perpetuate white supremacy "


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ColdOne666 posted...

Communist China and keeping a million ethnic minorities in slave concentration camps is proof of how awful the far left is.

Only someone ignorant or sociopathic and racist would defend that.

"China is bad, so universal healthcare is bad. Nazi Germany was bad, but nationalism is good"

Every bad person ever was a human, so I guess that means we should reconsider supporting anything humans come up with. You just know how extreme they can get.

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I tell ya I dunno about them humans. Mighty sus if you ask me.

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Veggeta X posted...

You need to stick to your words and ignore me.

Its not my fault you think mean words and terrorism are equal

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ZMythos posted...

"Let's spend taxpayer money on healthcare" = "let's perpetuate white supremacy "

Oh lord okay keep thinking there's no such thing as far leftists who don't say some insane radical shit themselves. Just block me like the rest of the far left people have.

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Veggeta X posted...

Oh lord okay keep thinking there's no such thing as far leftists who don't say some insane radical shit themselves. Just block me like the rest of the far left people have.

Cmon bud post your sources on what the far left has done thats equivalent to the terrorism weve seen from the far right

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Veggeta X posted...

I don't know how you can see the worst out of a certain group and won't for another. Talk about stepping outside a bubble, dude.

How do multiple groups having bad extremists prove those people are the same? Horseshoe Theory is just another example of people being unable to think on a spectrum. They see themselves at the top of a pyramid and everyone just moves further to the bottom the less they agree with them. Centrism is radicalism for nihilists.

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Veggeta X posted...

Oh lord okay keep thinking there's no such thing as far leftists who don't say some insane radical shit themselves. Just block me like the rest of the far left people have.

How does people being radical on opposite poles prove there are no poles? I hate TERFs and militant vegans. Does that mean they are exactly the same as white supremacists and Christian fundamentalists?

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hockeybub89 posted...

How do multiple groups having bad extremists prove those people are the same? Horseshoe Theory is just another example of people being unable to think on a spectrum. They see themselves at the top of a pyramid and everyone just moves further to the bottom the less they agree with them. Centrism is radicalism for nihilists.

You're mistaken if you think I'm saying far rights are okay because we have far lefts.

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ColdOne666 posted...

Communist China and keeping a million ethnic minorities in slave concentration camps is proof of how awful the far left is.

Theres no evidence of that. As far as I can trace back, there are currently 2 sources for numbers in the millions, the World Uyghur Congress (an organization funded by the U.S. government) and Adrian Zenzs study.

The World Uyghur Congress number is easy to debunk (not saying Zenzs is any more difficult). Here is a video of how the president of the WUC, Omer Kanat, responded to their allegation of 1 million Uyghurs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8uZZjB4kfM

President Kanat is very shifty when making a statement about where their source comes from, he then resorts to saying that the number is provided by some western media. Keep in mind that the WUC is what a significant amount of articles cite when addressing the issue of detainee numbers. It is safe to conclude that they have no strong evidence to present to us for their claim.

Adrian Zenzs study is a bit more complicated to debunk because there is an actual study to look at. After taking some time to look at the actual study and doing some research on Adrian Zenz, one can quickly find out that he does not have a history in conducting academically approved papers. He has not received education in statistics related subjects and he has a long track record of making some very questionable claims. He claimed that he is sent by God to punish Beijing, and actively connects homosexuality, gender equality, and bans on corporal punishment to the power of the Antichrist. His Wikipedia page has since removed any content regarding his unconventional beliefs but archives can still be found on the internet.

Regarding the actual study, there is nothing much of substance. Most of the paragraphs are dedicated to providing information on the geological and geographical information on Xinjiang. The conclusion of millions of detainees is made by interviewing merely 8 alleged former detainees. There is no further useful information in Zenzs study on this topic. It is fair to conclude, with his fundamentalist Christian views, his delusions about being sent by God against China, and track record of questionable/horrid beliefs, that Adrian Zenzs study is ultimately unfit to be cited by any article.

If you dont believe my personal account, here is an article that includes a more detailed explanation:

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

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Veggeta X posted...

As far as actual violence goes, I've never said anything about that but if you want an example of your peers saying fucked up shit:

https://imgur.com/lucuGhC

So youre saying theyre not the same at all because one says things you dont like on the internet while the other commits terrorist attacks

Got it

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Both sides are using violence, so that makes them indistinguishable. Bad things are bad. I am incredibly enlightened.

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King_Hutton posted...

So youre saying theyre not the same at all because one says things you dont like on the internet while the other commits terrorist attacks

Got it

Please condone your side more and think you're saints. Your logic is literally "At least we're not terrorists" and that's enough to think you can't be an awful person.

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hockeybub89 posted...

Both sides are using violence, so that makes them indistinguishable. Bad things are bad. I am incredibly enlightened.

Only one side can be bad. Me side good.

You see I can be as blind as you.

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Fake Vegy you should look up some of the shit Kamala Harris supporters posted during the primaries if you want to see vitriolic comments on par with far right rhetoric.
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Veggeta X posted...

Please condone your side more and think you're saints. Your logic is literally "At least we're not terrorists" and that's enough to think you can't be an awful person.

C/D: The far left and the far right are the exact same kind of people.

God youre a bad troll

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Fake Vegy you should look up some of the shit Kamala Harris supporters posted during the primaries if you want to see vitriolic comments on par with far right rhetoric.

I make no defense for the shit righties say.

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s0nicfan posted...

Was expecting this video:
https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg

Holy shit that is accurate

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King_Hutton posted...

God youre a bad troll

I'm not seeing you condone the bad people on your far left side. Still waiting. All you keep saying is "BUT THE FAR RIGHT".

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Veggeta X posted...

I make no defense for the shit righties say.

Kamala Harris supporters sure were/are shitty but they wouldn't like to be called righties.
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Why does this topic continue to shamble along
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I'm a reasonable man. The far right is far worst than any side from what we've seen but I'm not gonna ignore that the far left aren't capable of saying some fucked up shit. It's really that simple.

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Veggeta X posted...

Only one side can be bad. Me side good.

You see I can be as blind as you.

You're not even reading words. You're so proud that you've decided to believe in nothing because "both sides" (but especially one side) doesn't call out its craziest "members" enough. Since both sides are bad, do you not have any options currently?

Are you just going to ignore how much splintering and infighting goes on amongst the left "side"? That's exactly what makes every election volatile for Democratic candidates.

Exactly which group in the left region of the political spectrum is not doing enough to call out who? Who is correct? What do I need to tell Mr. Left at the next Left meeting to do to help centrist Fake Vegy choose our side?

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hockeybub89 posted...

You're not even reading words. You're so proud that you've decided to believe in nothing because "both sides" (but especially one side) doesn't call out its craziest "members" enough. Since both sides are bad, do you not have any options currently?

Are you just going to ignore how much splintering and infighting goes on amongst the left "side"? That's exactly what makes every election volatile for Democratic candidates.

Exactly which group in the left region of the political spectrum is not doing enough to call out who? Who is correct? What do I need to tell Mr. Left at the next Left meeting to do to help centrist Fake Vegy choose our side?

I just posted a picture of a far leftist from this very websight saying some fucked up shit that had to be called out on.

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Veggeta X posted...

I just posted a picture of a far leftist from this very websight saying some fucked up shit that had to be called out on.

Something that a ton of leftists did when Joel made the post initially, but of course thats not in your screenshots because youre trolling

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King_Hutton posted...

Something that a ton of leftists did when Joel made the post initially, but of course thats not in your screenshots because youre trolling

I'm sure you believe a ton of leftists joined on that comment with you and your friend there. I'm also a leftist but believe me, you and me are not cut form the same cloth. You fall more into the vocal minority.

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Yes I believe in things that happened, Im sorry thats so offensive to you that you feel compelled to compare me to terrorists

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shock, werent you just telling me to not respond to fake vegy the other day? I think this topic really illustrates why you had good reasons to give me that advice.

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I never compared you to a terrorists. But then again I'm not a racist either but you accused me of one.

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Veggeta X posted...

I'm also a leftist

I no longer regret taking you off ignore. That's the hardest I've laughed in a bit.

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Shablagoo posted...

shock, werent you just telling me to not respond to fake vegy the other day? I think this topic really illustrates why you had good reasons to give me that advice.

Yeah its definitely pointless, Im just bored

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"Both sides are equally bad"
"No they aren't."
"OMG one side isn't good just because the other is bad. Both sides are bad. One is just worst."
"Oh you're right. Both sides are bad, but different and one is worse."
"WHY WON'T YOU ADMIT YOUR SIDE IS BAD?"

Veggeta X posted...

I just posted a picture of a far leftist from this very websight saying some fucked up shit that had to be called out on.

Ok I'm calling it out. Now what? Why do I have a responsibility for what that person said? You're the one arbitrarily grouping us together. Stop building monoliths if you want everyone to think freely and fairly.

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is fake vegy a troll or serious

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hockeybub89 posted...

Ok I'm calling it out. Now what? Why do I have a responsibility for what that person said? You're the one arbitrarily grouping us together. Stop building monoliths if you want everyone to think freely and fairly.

I want you to acknowledge that there are such a thing as bad people on the far left. My gawd this is akin to Trump not wanting to fucking disown racist groups.

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ThyCorndog posted...

is fake vegy a troll or serious

Hes trolling.

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Also just wanna chime in here and say that this thread doesn't seem so much about analyzing peoples' character as much as reducing it for the sake of a comparison, and doing a lazy job of it. This is a pretty center-right way of looking at things - slackly complacent, bereft of responsibility, with delusions of self-enlightenment. Take that Ryan Long video that someone posted, for example. Its basically a reductive parody of what some middle class slacker, who once heard a "the French love Jerry Lewis!" joke as a nine year old and molded his personality around the speaker because it was the coolest shit he ever goddamn heard, thinks that the right and the left are like. Its the most piddley, no-brow, milquetoast political analysis you can possibly imagine.

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Veggeta X posted...

I want you to acknowledge that there are such a thing as bad people on the far left.

What a victory.

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Veggeta X posted...

I want you to acknowledge that there are such a thing as bad people on the far left. My gawd this is akin to Trump not wanting to fucking disown racist groups.

You've succeeded. Now what does that achieve? Why are those people my people? You claim to be a leftist, so are they also your people?

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hockeybub89 posted...

You've succeeded. Now what does that achieve? Why are those people my people? You claim to be a leftist, so are they also your people?

Now you condemn these people moving forward. You disown them forever. We might have both voted for Biden or have similar takes on a lot of things but make no mistake we are still very different so no these people are not my people and I'd wish they'd stop calling them lefties. They're hurting the mission.

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Veggeta X posted...

They're hurting the mission.

Oh God you are a delight.

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Veggeta X posted...

Now you condemn these people moving forward. You disown them forever. We might have both voted for Biden or have similar takes on a lot of things but make no mistake we are still very different so no these people are not my people and I'd wish they'd stop calling them lefties. They're hurting the mission.

Well I disagree with your mission, so I'm going to disown you too. I am the real leftist.

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On the surface level, I think there's a bit of truth to that statement. Most far-right or far-left people in western liberal democracies are either raised from very young with that thinking (usually on the basis of fundamentalist religion), or are white, single, atheist/agnostic men under the age of 40 who spend a lot of time on the internet. But I also think there's an incredible difference in values with a lot of people, or at least their interpretation of them, which makes the other side just impossible to understand.

I think the extent of what everyone's arguing about with horseshoe theory really depends on the type of far-left. Like, far-right ideologies tend to be pretty similar (nationalistic, birth or religion-based in and outgroups enforced by the state, extreme lack of welfare, high relative military spend) no matter which one you look at. The only real exceptions are radical libertarians (as in 0 welfare Ayn Rand types) and most of them are happy enough to live within a state as long as it doesn't tax them (and there's few enough of them in the first place). On the other hand, pretty much everyone on the far-left disagrees on everything except capitalism bad welfare good. Some of them are, imo, not much better than the worst of the far-right (systemic murder of dissenters, which is pretty much the only way the far-left has gotten into power to date given all large far-left societies I can think of have sprung from far-right ones). However, a lot of the ideology behind more libertarian socialist ideologies on the far left is just straight up nicer, more positive with its view on humanity, and doesn't require purging anyone. Definitely a bit unrealistic (at least right now) given the current state of society, but I think it's the ideal we should eventually strive for.

tl;dr: Maybe for some types of people or on the surface? but overall I think the difference in ideal state from a diverse and accommodating society compared to a literal ethnostate with closed borders and biological/social eugenics is enough of a difference that comparing them is a bit silly.

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