Poll of the Day > Youths attack man who challenged them for not wearing masks

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Victim blaming is definitely bad when someone uses it to absolve the guilt of the perpetrator, but that doesn't really change the fact that some victims are absolutely responsible for provoking their own victimization, and should be treated accordingly.

It's an important distinction, and one way too many people online have grown completely blind to as of late.

If you're wandering around in the middle of the night in a city with a known high rate of crime, waving money around, paying absolutely no attention to your environment, and generally acting like an ass, I'm going to have a hell of a lot less sympathy for you than I would if you were just randomly standing around in a relatively safe part of town in the middle of the day and got jumped out of nowhere with absolutely no provocation. Victim or no, you still have to take responsibility for your own actions.

I definitely agree with this. I think there is a line at which one should expect negative consequences based on a series of stupid decisions. I just don't think this was one of those cases where it's accurate to say that this man provoked the violence that he received.

Flappers posted...

So if I say to a shirtless person on a cold winter day "Wow, don't you want to wear a jacket?" I deserve to be followed, attacked, and get my bag stolen? Then I can't be upset about it because I was sticking my nose where it doesn't belong and "inviting" that kind of criminal behavior?

Depends if you are saying it in a provoking way, if the person likes you or many other factors in how they might act. However as you started a avoidable situation you shouldn't be shocked when there is consequences.

You may not have actually said that you condone violence

Then stop implying that I am.

you don't seem to understand that it isn't his fault he got hurt by some very hot-headed and immature people.

If he carried on walking off the tram this situation would have been avoided. He decided to get involved. How is this not his own fault?

Flappers posted...

I'm not telling you to apologize or anything

Good because you'll be in for a long wait.

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

The thing is, it's entirely possible to say that the criminals are entirely responsible for their own reprehensible actions while still accurately pointing out that the victim was an idiot.

It's not an either-or situation where one side is clearly 100% right and the other is 100% wrong. It is more than possible for everyone involved to be 100% wrong and deserving of scorn.

This is absolutely correct and I know exactly what you mean.

Like the stories about the bully who harasses somebody for years until they snap and almost kill the guy. On one hand, the bully was wrong and maybe even deserved it, but still shouldn't have to be faced with the potential to lose their life and thus the opportunity to ever become a better person. On the other hand, we understand the victim completely and we may have even done the same, but it still isn't right to resort to violence and let yourself stoop as low as those who hurt you.

This is a perfect example of how life isn't ever really black and white. Especially when it comes to things like crimes of passion and mental health, things get very gray. It's easy to say something is wrong without ever having been in the situation yourself. You may think you know how you'll react to certain things but you actually never really know until it happens.

However, there are cases where it's clear that, even though neither party is entirely guilt-free -- one has gone too far.
This is just such a case and the problem that people are having is that you don't seem to recognize that.

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wwinterj25 posted...

Depends if you are saying it in a provoking way, if the person likes you or many other factors in how they might act. However as you started a avoidable situation you shouldn't be shocked when there is consequences.

Consequences always happen. But sometimes we get more than we deserve. I may deserve to be called out on being annoying but I don't deserve to be assaulted in this case.

Then stop implying that I am.

You are implying that you condone violence for this situation. I'm not saying you condone violence all the time because I'm sure that you don't. In this case though, you seem very content with the fact that this guy got hurt for just being a little annoying.

If he carried on walking off the tram this situation would have been avoided. He decided to get involved. How is this not his own fault?

Because the kids were the ones that made the decision to attack him. He may have instigated it in their minds, but they are responsible for how they react and what they do because of it.

Good because you'll be in for a long wait.

Haha, yup. I'm the same way. No problem here.

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GunslingerGunsl posted...

I definitely agree with this. I think there is a line at which one should expect negative consequences based on a series of stupid decisions. I just don't think this was one of those cases where it's accurate to say that this man provoked the violence that he received.

Absolutely. Mugging the guy was a huge overreaction.

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wwinterj25 posted...

I'm not going to explicitly say that he deserved to be physically assaulted and robbed for telling people to wear their masks when it's legally required because that'd get me moderated, but....

maybe you should mind your own business if you're going to post horrible shit like that

streamofthesky posted...

maybe you should mind your own business if you're going to post horrible shit like that

Yeah that was a pretty shitty thing to say. We won't mug him over it, though -- only assholes would do something like that.

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Flappers posted...

Consequences always happen.

I'm happy you understand.

streamofthesky posted...

maybe you should mind your own business if you're going to post horrible shit like that

Oh look. This guy can edit quotes to say things that wasn't said. He sure told me.

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LuciferSage posted...

are you wearing your mask?

Of course. But, as we all know by now, wearing a mask does not provide complete protection. Even wearing a mask, my personal risk is still dramatically increased if those around me do not. Ergo, their failure is my business.

wwinterj25 posted...

Yeah, well it's MY air now and what I do with my air is only my business. I'm not sharing so don't ask.

It's only your air until you exhale. Then it becomes public domain again. Just as it is only mine for as long as I'm breathing it. You're welcome to contaminate your air however you like, certainly, but unless you're tying a plastic bag around your head to keep it for yourself indefinitely, it's going to become somebody else's air - and therefore business - very soon.

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adjl posted...

It's only your air until you exhale.

... and I'll do what I want with it.


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wwinterj25 posted...

... and I'll do what I want with it.

And when it becomes somebody else's air, you should be prepared to accept the consequences of what you did to it before they got their turn.

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adjl posted...

And when it becomes somebody else's air, you should be prepared to accept the consequences of what you did to it before they got their turn.

Got em.

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I also can't believe this debate has boiled down to arguing over who has rights to what air. This is ridiculous.

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Why are all the shit kids always in the UK?

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keep your distance then
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Flappers posted...

I also can't believe this debate has boiled down to arguing over who has rights to what air. This is ridiculous.

That's what happens when you have selfish know-nothings thinking their whining position on masks somehow trumps communal and collective safety.

Zareth posted...

Why are all the shit kids always in the UK?

America has the shit adults.

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adjl posted...

And when it becomes somebody else's air, you should be prepared to accept the consequences of what you did to it before they got their turn.

They too should accept the consequences for their actions. Now we are back to my exact point in this topic. Round and round we go.

Flappers posted...

Got em.

Yeah. Pointing out actions have consequences sure got me. I'd have never have thought this otherwise....oh wait.

Flappers posted...

America has the shit adults.

Quite.

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this happened in england?

TommyVercetti posted...

this happened in england?

It did. In my city actually.

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AWinterJ posted...

It did. In my city actually.

oh really? you don't think the u.k. is any better than the u.s. ? in the behavior of its people, i'm talking about

TommyVercetti posted...

oh really? you don't think the u.k. is any better than the u.s. ? in the behavior of its people, i'm talking about

Perhaps you should type that next time then. I feel the UK is better than USA yes as it's a smaller population. However folk can be arseholes no matter the country. We also get nosy parkers in every country who stick their nose where it isn't wanted.

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why are you defending the youths? dude was in the right, for asking them to wear masks

TommyVercetti posted...

why are you defending the youths? dude was in the right, for asking them to wear masks

Read the topic.

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People should really learn to mind their own business since anybody can be a psycho like the youths.
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Sorry guys but wwinterj25 clearly made their decision. The large consensus of us believe that he is wrong but that still isn't changing his mind.

No point in arguing with this guy anymore. To each their own, I suppose.

At least nobody got into a flame war lol this could have gone much worse.

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Revelation34 posted...

People should really learn to mind their own business since anybody can be a psycho like the youths.

I wouldn't risk my life to be a have a go hero over a mask not been worn.

Flappers posted...

The large consensus of us believe that he is wrong but that still isn't changing his mind.

Nobody has gave me any valid reason to change my stance on "if you play with fire you get burned". Perhaps if they did I'd be more open. All I see is folk making false claims. All you're telling me is 19 folk who voted on this poll should be prepared for consequences if they stick their nose in other peoples shit. If they are not then I can't help them and they will be in for a shock in the real world. Likewise these youths been arrested for assault is deserved too.

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wwinterj25 posted...

They too should accept the consequences for their actions. Now we are back to my exact point in this topic. Round and round we go.

And people to apply consequences to people that want to prevent their air from being contaminated are subhuman garbage and should be treated as such by literally everyone in the world. And yet you resist joining in this effort.

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wwinterj25 posted...

I don't condone violence

It should end here. Full stop. If you're being physically attacked, robbed, whatever, you have a right to defend yourself. Anything else is inappropriate.

It doesn't matter how somebody is acting, if they're not attacking you, you don't attack them. I know this idea is somehow controversial on Gamefaqs and social media, but almost every country in the world has laws against assault.

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Nobody has gave me any valid reason to change my stance on "if you play with fire you get burned". Perhaps if they did I'd be more open. All I see is folk making false claims. All you're telling me is 19 folk who voted on this poll should be prepared for consequences if they stick their nose in other peoples shit. If they are not then I can't help them and they will be in for a shock in the real world. Likewise these youths been arrested for assault is deserved too.

We absolutely have given you good reasons but you do not agree with them being valid enough to change your mind even slightly. We also agree with some of what you say but the rest isn't even worth repeating at this point because you do not seem to understand what we are saying. That's fine. Sometimes people just have a difference in opinion that can't be changed. It's good that you agree that the youths should have been arrested, however.

In the end, I think we all believe that each party was somewhat guilty of what happened. That we can agree on. However, the majority of us are saying that most of the blame goes onto the youths -- you seem to believe that the man has much more fault than the rest of us do.
This has made people angry because it's seen as you blaming the man too much for the fact that he was assaulted, which in most of our opinions isn't fair. He made mistakes, yes, but you're the only one who implies that he deserved it entirely. I could probably dedicate a lot of thought and time into this to continue trying to get you to see what we perceive, but it isn't worth it.

Again, there's no point in going back and forth any more since obviously neither side is budging. Of course people can debate as long as they want -- but I myself think that it's just time to accept we have different opinions, say "agree to disagree", and walk away. It can sure be frustrating but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter... I'm done debating about it.

You got a little snide at times but that's understandable. Thanks for being civil in the long run... I was afraid that things were going to go south after the whole "don't post this horrible shit here" thing lol

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the amount of people condoning violence itt is crazy

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What_The_Chris posted...

the amount of people condoning violence itt is crazy

I know, right?

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suggesting children look both ways before crossing the street is not condoning driving recklessly in school zones.

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LuciferSage posted...

suggesting children look both ways before crossing the street is not condoning driving recklessly in school zones.

Something about that seems to be an inquivalent example... but even granting you that, if someone were to say "welp, they should have looked both ways" after a child is ran over still makes that person look like an a******. It seems to minimize the more prominent issue that some people just have no regard for other people's wellbeing.

Im not saying they were right for attacking him and he didnt deserve to get his glasses stolen but Jesus Christ mind your own business. You dont always have to be the hero you goody-two-shoes. So yeah everybody sucks here basically.

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Naruto_fan_42 posted...

Im not saying they were right for attacking him and he didnt deserve to get his glasses stolen but Jesus Christ mind your own business. You dont always have to be the hero you goody-two-shoes. So yeah everybody sucks here basically.

Those youths definitely suck way harder, though.

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Aaantlion posted...

but almost every country in the world has laws against assault.

Hence why said teens were arrested.

Naruto_fan_42 posted...

Im not saying they were right for attacking him and he didnt deserve to get his glasses stolen but Jesus Christ mind your own business. You dont always have to be the hero you goody-two-shoes. So yeah everybody sucks here basically.

Agreed however it seems some folk in this topic don't understand that if this 27 year old have a go hero didn't stick his nose in then none of this would have happened save for the tram conductor dealing with idiots as they do on a daily bases.

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JigsawTDC posted...

That's what happens when you have selfish know-nothings thinking their whining position on masks somehow trumps communal and collective safety.

Leave politics out of it. Its thinking like that which is the problem. People are too stupid to make up their own mind or they blame someone else. This is a matter of public safety, not politics. Fuck politics in this case. It was just some dumbshit kids with terrible parents who didnt punish them for anything growing up.

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