Poll of the Day > Youths attack man who challenged them for not wearing masks

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AWinterJ
11/19/20 8:42:50 PM
#1:


Was the man in the right for doing this?



"Joseph Hawker, aged 27, was on his way home from work when he backed up a tram conductor who asked two passengers to wear their masks, which are aimed at reducing the spread of coronavirus.

When he left the tram on Park Grange Croft, between Heeley and Norfolk Park, the two youths followed and ambushed him.
He was confronted for asking the youths to wear their masks before they attacked and robbed him of the bag he was carrying, which contained his glasses.

His brother launched an online crowdfunding appeal on the Go Fund Me website and 275 has been raised to replace Josephs glasses.

Joseph, who works for an internet provider in the city, said he is overwhelmed at the response to his brothers fundraising appeal.
I cannot for a moment begin to express how I feel. The ugliness of the individuals who attacked me is outweighed so overwhelmingly by the generosity of my friends and family. I'm stunned and I'll admit I bawled when I got the call from my brother that he did this for me in secret, he said.
Joseph said despite the attack, he feels challenging the youths was the right thing to do.
They got on the tram without wearing masks and the conductor was asking them to put them on, but they were ignoring him, he said.

They were told that if they did not wear their masks, the conductor would ask them to leave and as I was getting off I said to him that he might as well make them get off now as they were not going to put them on.
I told them they should be wearing masks and despite what happened to me, I feel that I did the right thing.
If more people had spoken up, they would probably have sat down and complied.
Wearing masks is only effective if everyone does it. People have to take it seriously."

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/youths-attack-and-ambush-sheffield-man-who-challenged-them-not-wearing-masks-3039524

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBVBUt4DOQQ

Bonus question:
Have you ever challenged anyone for not wearing a mask?

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JigsawTDC
11/19/20 8:53:12 PM
#2:


Winter, you can't just STEAL duckbear's thing! How rude!
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Metalsonic66
11/19/20 8:58:11 PM
#3:


JigsawTDC posted...
Winter, you can't just STEAL duckbear's thing! How rude!
Youths ATTACK man who CHALLENGED them for not wearing MASKS

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wwinterj25
11/19/20 9:23:16 PM
#4:


I don't condone violence but if you play with fire you get burned. Once more the guy was getting off the tram so should not have been a "have a go hero". Masks are required on public transport unless exempt but this is up to the conductor to deal with. Not some random Joe. Mind your own business.

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Raddest_Chad
11/19/20 9:50:09 PM
#5:


With the way youths are these days, I'd only mouth off if I had some means to forcibly intimidate them. You gotta look like you're gonna cave their heads in or have a visible weapon on your person or something. You just never know these days. I remember some woman getting blinded for telling these teens to be quiet during a movie. They waited outside and sprayed bleach in her eyes. You basically gotta be ready to get into a knock down, drag out if you wanna disagree with assholes in 2020.

I remember some dude was clearly gonna try to rob my buddy and I when we got into his car in this shitty part of town, he just tapped a fucking Rambo knife on the window and the guy turned around and went back from whence he came.

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GunslingerGunsl
11/19/20 9:54:56 PM
#6:


wwinterj25 posted...
I don't condone violence but if you play with fire you get burned. Once more the guy was getting off the tram so should not have been a "have a go hero". Masks are required on public transport unless exempt but this is up to the conductor to deal with. Not some random Joe. Mind your own business.
You think that means he deserved to get physically assaulted? wow

edit: Also, I'm pretty sure that's condoning violence. lol
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Raddest_Chad
11/19/20 9:57:22 PM
#7:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
You think that means he deserved to get physically assaulted? wow

edit: Also, I'm pretty sure that's condoning violence. lol
I don't think he was saying that. Just that the dude made a choice and there was a consequence for it. They should not have beaten him up and stolen his bag, but just "because that is wrong" doesn't mean they aren't going to do it. They telegraphed their douchiness over the masks. They're clearly dumb and belligerent.

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GunslingerGunsl
11/19/20 10:13:44 PM
#8:


Raddest_Chad posted...
I don't think he was saying that. Just that the dude made a choice and there was a consequence for it. They should not have beaten him up and stolen his bag, but just "because that is wrong" doesn't mean they aren't going to do it. They telegraphed their douchiness over the masks. They're clearly dumb and belligerent.
I think the "well it's to be expected" attitude about something like this is the same as condoning violence. It's not the same as someone who wants to go poke a porcupine for fun and then gets pricked. People are held to a higher moral standard than this. Telling someone they should wear a mask during a pandemic shouldn't end with getting beat up. Saying "if you play with fire you get burned" in this case sounds an awful lot like, "he deserved it." Maybe winter just badly worded his post.
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Krow_Incarnate
11/19/20 10:42:53 PM
#9:


Good on him.

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Black_Crusher
11/19/20 10:55:55 PM
#10:


Metalsonic66 posted...
Youths ATTACK man who CHALLENGED them for not wearing MASKS
Is he HOT??

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LuciferSage
11/19/20 11:00:09 PM
#11:


when did we cross the Rubicon to where random citizens feel the need to "correct" random people unknown to them in public spaces? when did we become Puritans all over again?

is this just where we're heading? since you can say whatever you want to strangers on the internet, you think doing the same thing IRL isn't going to result in immediate consequences?

both parties in this story are assholes, but minding your own business would have gone a long way towards avoiding the situation entirely.

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adjl
11/19/20 11:02:49 PM
#12:


LuciferSage posted...
minding your own business

What people choose to contaminate my air with is my business.

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Raddest_Chad
11/19/20 11:03:14 PM
#13:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
I think the "well it's to be expected" attitude about something like this is the same as condoning violence. It's not the same as someone who wants to go poke a porcupine for fun and then gets pricked. People are held to a higher moral standard than this. Telling someone they should wear a mask during a pandemic shouldn't end with getting beat up. Saying "if you play with fire you get burned" in this case sounds an awful lot like, "he deserved it." Maybe winter just badly worded his post.
It shouldn't. But expecting everyone to be reasonable and not shitty is some hippie fantasy bullshit. Bad people exist. That logic is like thinking "maybe if someone told Stalin the gulags were mean he wouldn't have used them." Applying your own moral standards to humanity as a whole is naive.

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wwinterj25
11/19/20 11:04:09 PM
#14:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
You think that means he deserved to get physically assaulted? wow

I mean if you play with shit your hands will stink.

Raddest_Chad posted...
I don't think he was saying that. Just that the dude made a choice and there was a consequence for it.

Exactly. Keep your nose out and you'll be fine. Pun intended. The funny thing is once off the tram you're free to not wear a mask and as everyone involved save for the conductor would end up off the tram(the guy was getting off, youths kicked off) it makes his interfering pointless.

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LuciferSage
11/19/20 11:09:33 PM
#15:


adjl posted...
What people choose to contaminate my air with is my business.


are you wearing your mask?

then shut up and keep it moving.

do we kick everyone out of a train car if someone farts and doesn't own up to it? do people get kicked off trains for poor hygiene or excessive perfume/cologne?

no, we don't have random vigilantes handling those situations.

we get it, you'll wear the mask in your own home if you're told to, but lets just set the "contaminating my air" bit aside.

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Metalsonic66
11/19/20 11:11:41 PM
#16:


It was her fault for wearing that skimpy outfit, duhhhh

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wwinterj25
11/19/20 11:13:14 PM
#17:


adjl posted...
What people choose to contaminate my air with is my business.
Yeah, well it's MY air now and what I do with my air is only my business. I'm not sharing so don't ask.

LuciferSage posted...
are you wearing your mask?

then shut up and keep it moving.

Sums up my thoughts. I don't go yelling at folk not to wear masks as I really don't care if they are muzzled or not.

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Jen0125
11/19/20 11:23:27 PM
#18:


But is he hot?

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AWinterJ
11/19/20 11:28:23 PM
#19:


Jen0125 posted...
But is he hot?
https://i.imgur.com/P6xPIGy.jpg
He doesn't seem bad. But let's see what people think.

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GunslingerGunsl
11/19/20 11:28:37 PM
#20:


Raddest_Chad posted...
It shouldn't. But expecting everyone to be reasonable and not shitty is some hippie fantasy bullshit. Bad people exist. That logic is like thinking "maybe if someone told Stalin the gulags were mean he wouldn't have used them." Applying your own moral standards to humanity as a whole is naive.

wwinterj25 posted...
Exactly. Keep your nose out and you'll be fine. Pun intended. The funny thing is once off the tram you're free to not wear a mask and as everyone involved save for the conductor would end up off the tram(the guy was getting off, youths kicked off) it makes his interfering pointless.
My response is to both of you, since you both hold the same view. I don't think it is "hippie fantasy" to expect common decency out of people. It's not like I expect people who disagree on masks to give each other a hug and become best friends, but do you really think it is too much to expect people not to get physically violent over being asked to wear a mask? I don't think it's so much that I'm naive (maybe though), but maybe more-so that you guys are cynical.
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JigsawTDC
11/19/20 11:28:53 PM
#21:


LuciferSage posted...
are you wearing your mask?

then shut up and keep it moving.

do we kick everyone out of a train car if someone farts and doesn't own up to it? do people get kicked off trains for poor hygiene or excessive perfume/cologne?

no, we don't have random vigilantes handling those situations.

we get it, you'll wear the mask in your own home if you're told to, but lets just set the "contaminating my air" bit aside.

Neither of your comparisons are liable to spread a highly infectious disease around, so they don't hold up very well. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the guy who doesn't understand how calories work also doesn't understand how COVID spreads.
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wwinterj25
11/19/20 11:31:45 PM
#22:


JigsawTDC posted...
Neither of your comparisons are liable to spread a highly infectious disease around, so they don't hold up very well.

Hold up very well. Mind your own business to avoid these situations.

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Flappers
11/20/20 12:01:17 AM
#23:


adjl posted...
What people choose to contaminate my air with is my business.
Damn straight. Especially on a train!

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Flappers
11/20/20 12:02:30 AM
#24:


AWinterJ posted...
https://i.imgur.com/P6xPIGy.jpg
He doesn't seem bad. But let's see what people think.
Not a bad looking lesbian, I guess.

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Flappers
11/20/20 12:03:10 AM
#25:


wwinterj25 posted...
Hold up very well. Mind your own business to avoid these situations.
How was he supposed to know that he'd get assaulted for such a minor passing of words?

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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:05:57 AM
#26:


Flappers posted...
How was he supposed to know that he'd get assaulted for such a minor passing of words?
When a tram conductor is doing his job and the youths were no doubt been arseholes what isn't needed is a "have a go hero" sticking their nose in while getting off the tram that just made the situation worse. You're asking me how are you supposed to know fire will burn you when you're the one fanning the flames.

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Flappers
11/20/20 12:14:49 AM
#27:


wwinterj25 posted...
When a tram conductor is doing his job and the youths were no doubt been arseholes what isn't needed is a "have a go hero" sticking their nose in while getting off the tram that just made the situation worse. You're asking me how are you supposed to know fire will burn you when you're the one fanning the flames.
It's absolutely true that he didn't need to say anything and should have minded his own business! ...However, a simple "You should wear a mask" isn't that big of a deal. A little annoying, sure, but "fanning the flames"?

The kids who decided that assaulting him was the right way to go are 100% in the wrong. Even if somebody told you that you're ugly as fuck you can't just go and attack them. It's against the law for a reason.

Are you saying it was a good thing that he was attacked? If somebody sneezes on you in a bus are you going to assault them and consider it an okay thing to do because they were "fanning the flames"?

The guy was irritating but it isn't his fault he got assaulted and robbed.

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JigsawTDC
11/20/20 12:15:37 AM
#28:


wwinterj25 posted...
Hold up very well. Mind your own business to avoid these situations.

My response was more in regards to his comments about kicking people off for farting or poor hygiene or wearing strong odors. I'm all for people who choose not to follow basic mask guidelines being kicked off confined spaces with recycled air. And whether people choose to confront a situation is their decision, but I don't think violence should be an expected or accepted response to this.
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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:21:30 AM
#29:


JigsawTDC posted...
whether people choose to confront a situation is their decision, but I don't think violence should be an expected of accepted response to this.

Indeed it is so when things get worse they have themselves to blame. Nobody asked him to stick his nose in and I doubt anyone even wanted him to.


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AWinterJ
11/20/20 12:22:55 AM
#30:


Update:
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/teens-arrested-after-man-attacked-confronting-youths-not-wearing-masks-sheffield-tram-3040861

"The boys, aged 15 and 16, were arrested over an incident on Park Grange Croft, between Heeley and Norfolk Park, last Tuesday.
A 16-year-old boy has been charged with robbery and is due at court today.

A 15-year-old boy, also arrested on suspicion of robbery, has been released under investigation."

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GunslingerGunsl
11/20/20 12:23:19 AM
#31:


wwinterj25 posted...
Indeed it is so when things get worse they have themselves to blame. Nobody asked him to stick his nose in and I doubt anyone even wanted him to.
The conductor most likely appreciated the support.
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Flappers
11/20/20 12:24:54 AM
#32:


wwinterj25 posted...
Indeed it is so when things get worse they have themselves to blame. Nobody asked him to stick his nose in and I doubt anyone even wanted him to.
True but it still isn't okay to assault him! "He was being annoying so that means he was practically asking for it and I shouldn't be held accountable" sounds startlingly similar to the train of thought behind "She was wearing sexy clothes so it's her fault she got raped and I shouldn't be held accountable."

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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:25:11 AM
#33:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
The conductor most likely appreciated the support.
The conductor probably didn't as he was already handling the situation. On that note the conductor is protected a lot more from any incidents. All this guy did was make the situation worse. Now two young lads have been arrested it seems. This could have all been avoided.

Flappers posted...
True but it still isn't okay to [i]assault[/i] him! "He was being annoying so that means he was practically asking for it and I shouldn't be held accountable" sounds startlingly similar to the train of thought behind "She was wearing sexy clothes so it's her fault she got raped and I shouldn't be held accountable."

That's what I call reaching and your reaching very far. No way, shape or form is this the same thing as blaming rape victims. Also if you bothered to even read my posts you'll know I don't condone any sort of violence.

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JigsawTDC
11/20/20 12:25:56 AM
#34:


wwinterj25 posted...
Indeed it is so when things get worse they have themselves to blame. Nobody asked him to stick his nose in and I doubt anyone even wanted him to.

I think the entirety of the blame rests on the violent aggressor, not whatever the person did that you think warrants or justifies the attack.
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GunslingerGunsl
11/20/20 12:26:31 AM
#35:


wwinterj25 posted...
The conductor probably didn't as he was already handling the situation. On that note the conductor is protected a lot more from any incidents. All this guy did was make the situation worse. Now two young lads have been arrested it seems. This could have all been avoided.
Yeah, avoided by the kids not acting like little s***s. lol.
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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:29:45 AM
#36:


JigsawTDC posted...
I think the entirety of the blame rests on the violent aggressor, not whatever the person did that you think warrants or justifies the attack.

Not at all. Stick your nose in and that's on you.

GunslingerGunsl posted...
Yeah, avoided by the kids not acting like little s***s. lol.

Sure but some kids are shits. I was talking more about the situation for this guy. He invited himself into the situation and then cried when it went wrong for him.

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GunslingerGunsl
11/20/20 12:30:32 AM
#37:


wwinterj25 posted...
Also if you bothered to even read my posts you'll know I don't condone any sort of violence.
You can't say that someone should expect to get punched in the face and then say that you don't condone violence.
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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:31:21 AM
#38:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
You can't say that someone should expect to get punched in the face

Where did I say that?

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GunslingerGunsl
11/20/20 12:32:27 AM
#39:


wwinterj25 posted...
He invited himself into the situation

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argonautweakend
11/20/20 12:33:20 AM
#40:


JigsawTDC posted...
Winter, you can't just STEAL duckbear's thing! How rude!

He asked a legitimate question....

get outta here calling him duckbear.
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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:33:49 AM
#41:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
He invited himself into the situation

Yes. That's what he did by sticking his nose in. The situation was between the youths and the conductor.

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Metalsonic66
11/20/20 12:35:35 AM
#42:


If they were willing to beat up and rob someone over a comment, they'd beat up someone over literally anything

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GunslingerGunsl
11/20/20 12:35:56 AM
#43:


wwinterj25 posted...
Yes. That's what he did by sticking his nose in. The situation was between the youths and the conductor.
Nevermind. I don't see a point in this discussion anymore. You clearly don't recognize your own victim-blaming.
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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:37:47 AM
#44:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
Nevermind. I don't see a point in this discussion anymore. You clearly don't recognize your own victim-blaming.
... and your clearly throwing around words without knowing the meaning. You claimed I said something and I asked you to point to me where I said it. As I said no such thing you're only showing your lack of understanding.

Metalsonic66 posted...
If they were willing to beat up and rob someone over a comment, they'd beat up someone over literally anything

Probably. They sound feral.

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Flappers
11/20/20 12:38:52 AM
#45:


wwinterj25 posted...
That's what I call reaching and your reaching very far. No way, shape or form is this the same thing as blaming rape victims. Also if you bothered to even read my posts you'll know I don't condone any sort of violence.
I'm not saying it's the same because clearly it's not. I'm saying that the train of thought behind blaming the victim is similar. You can't commit a crime upon somebody just because you perceive that they've opened themselves up to it. That's garbage and if everybody thought like that then imagine how many times we'd all get assaulted and then told it was our fault.

Again, the guy was being annoying -- but he didn't deserve to get mugged. That's not okay.

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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:40:40 AM
#46:


Flappers posted...
You can't commit a crime upon somebody just because you perceive that they've opened themselves up to it.

I mean they can as they did but they got arrested for it so eh. Every action has a consequence afterall.


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argonautweakend
11/20/20 12:41:21 AM
#47:


if somebody was smoking on the tram where it isnt allowed surely the conductor would say something if not a passenger.

I dont feel this is any different. Adji's remark about contaminating air is valid. Smoke is damaging to your lungs, even second hand. We cant tell if somebody has covid because they could be asymptomatic therefore we need to make precautions such as this. anybodies oxygen could be "cigarette smoke" if you will.

A fart in public is a) hilarious as shit and not likely to potentially or actually harm somebody else. But I suspect on a tram if somebody did let one rip, maybe somebody would say something. farts, while hilarious, are also gross to a lot of people.
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wwinterj25
11/20/20 12:43:34 AM
#48:


argonautweakend posted...
if somebody was smoking on the tram where it isnt allowed surely the conductor would say something if not a passenger.

It's like you didn't read the story. The conductor is free to enforce their job as they did. However a passenger has no authority even more so who was getting off the tram anyway. He just pureed fuel into the fire.

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ParanoidObsessive
11/20/20 12:47:52 AM
#49:


GunslingerGunsl posted...
You clearly don't recognize your own victim-blaming.

Victim blaming is definitely bad when someone uses it to absolve the guilt of the perpetrator, but that doesn't really change the fact that some victims are absolutely responsible for provoking their own victimization, and should be treated accordingly.

It's an important distinction, and one way too many people online have grown completely blind to as of late.

If you're wandering around in the middle of the night in a city with a known high rate of crime, waving money around, paying absolutely no attention to your environment, and generally acting like an ass, I'm going to have a hell of a lot less sympathy for you than I would if you were just randomly standing around in a relatively safe part of town in the middle of the day and got jumped out of nowhere with absolutely no provocation. Victim or no, you still have to take responsibility for your own actions.



Flappers posted...
You can't commit a crime upon somebody just because you perceive that they've opened themselves up to it. That's garbage and if everybody thought like that then imagine how many times we'd all get assaulted and then told it was our fault.

The thing is, it's entirely possible to say that the criminals are entirely responsible for their own reprehensible actions while still accurately pointing out that the victim was an idiot.

It's not an either-or situation where one side is clearly 100% right and the other is 100% wrong. It is more than possible for everyone involved to be 100% wrong and deserving of scorn.
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Flappers
11/20/20 12:49:04 AM
#50:


wwinterj25 posted...
Yes. That's what he did by sticking his nose in. The situation was between the youths and the conductor.
So if I say to a shirtless person on a cold winter day "Wow, don't you want to wear a jacket?" I deserve to be followed, attacked, and get my bag stolen? Then I can't be upset about it because I was sticking my nose where it doesn't belong and "inviting" that kind of criminal behavior?

You may not have actually said that you condone violence but you just have to hear yourself, man, and realize that maybe this isn't the most tactful response to things... I get what you're saying on some level about the guy being nosey but you don't seem to understand that it isn't his fault he got hurt by some very hot-headed and immature people.

Victim blaming is the perfect term for this. I don't think you realize it but that's what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying just came off wrong and now you have to defend yourself and try to explain it. I've been there too. But when ever after that everybody else jumps in and tells me I'm in the wrong I have to realize that they may be right if it's that unanimous and give in even though I might still feel like I'm right.

I'm not telling you to apologize or anything, it doesn't matter enough to get into a huge argument over. I think we just kinda want you to understand that what you're saying isn't really that fair.

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