Board 8 > Ranking everything in Hades (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

5. Favor

I didn't have a chance to mention this much, but I respect rarity a lot. The only reason I don't usually use Olympian Favor or Gods' Pride is because the alternative in both cases are better. As a result, I definitely love Favor. You also usually get Chaos in Tartarus, so Favor doesn't feel particularly useless. It's just that if I'm already going down to Chaos, I'm more interested in stacking my damage.

4. Ambush

You're likely already running Shadow Presence. If you have Athena in your pool, you have a high chance of stacking up on backstabs. Bonus points if you're running Blade, which can get you Shadow Slash...which might have the highest damage potential out of all the hammer upgrades.

3. Shot

2. Strike


Both are easy to double up on when visiting Chaos. Both are likely to be your damage dealers. The only reason they don't get higher is because...

1. Grasp

If you're running Stygian Soul, this is the gamechanger. Being able to cast every 3 seconds is nice, but not amazing. Two casts means you're basically always casting. If you're running Infernal Soul, having a 4th Bloodstone is pretty good too. Then you have the Well of Charon. With the Prometheus Stone, you can temporarily get another +1 bloodstone. With the Stygian Stone, that's 3 bloodstones, so 1 cast every second. Insane.

Next up...Rail hammer upgrades.

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Slippery lower than Addled? At least you can still cast! I also think Caustic is a gimme drawback outside of Elysium, though you are right about how it can become much worse with certain enemy types, so it's kind of awkward.

Top 5 buffs is probably spot on for the ones I'd pick. +1 bloodstone too good. I do like the Obol buff a lot more than you do, especially due to Golden Touch, but I'm never picking it over something that directly benefits my build

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SSBM_Guy posted...

11. Thunder Flourish

Times Used: 10
Times Cleared: 7
Ranked among Zeus: 2/5
Ranked among Specials: 3/8

A single thunder strike actually works very well with most of the specials. The only one it doesn't really work with is Bow. I generally like the lightning strike over the chain lightning when it comes to Zeus. I think it upgrades better than chain lightning and you get that sweet Sea Storm damage with lightning over chain lightning. Speaking of Sea Storm...

with regular bow*

hidden bow it's easily the best special boon you can get

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KommunistKoala posted...

with regular bow*

hidden bow it's easily the best special boon you can get

Does it make a lightning bolt hit for each arrow? Currently I like aiming for Dionysus special on hidden bow. Yes I would like to immediately put 5 hangover stacks on my target and a few more on whatever else it hits

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Not using specials feels weird to me. Like, I find it easy enough to get by just using special attacks easily enough when grabbing Maimed on most weapons. Sword, Fist, and Bow all work quite well with only specials. Gun isn't bad either.
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Rail Daedelus Enhancements:

Delta Tier

18. Greater Inferno

Times Used: 0
Times Cleared: 0

Hellfire is bad. If you're trying to blow up the Hellfire sphere, you're usually targeting the enemies first. By the time you get to the sphere, there's no enemies there. If someone can tell me how to make Hellfire work, I'd appreciate it!

17. Spread Fire

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 0

Using a ranged weapon is a blessing, not a curse. I don't understand the upgrades that want you to use it close-range. Probably works out really well with Eris Rail and the percentage-based Attack buffs, but I'd still take the safety of shooting from range than getting up-close.

Gamma Tier

16. Seeking Fire

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 0

It's fine, but kinda unremarkable. The game does a pretty good job of positioning you so that you're shooting at an enemy, anyways.

15. Targeting System

Times Used: 5
Times Cleared: 0

A good idea in theory for the special, but honestly, you're better off going for damage if you want to buff up your special.

14. Delta Chamber

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 1

A little too good to get into the Delta Tier. Not having to reload is nice, but I don't really like the three-shot burst. The slowdown between the bursts throws me off and I'd rather run-and-reload than shoot bursts forever.

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13. Flurry Fire

Times Used: 5
Times Cleared: 2

The middle-in-the-road Rail enhancement. If it's there and I have no better options, I'll grab it.

12. Eternal Chamber

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 1

One of the more fun upgrades. Lucifer Rail with an Attack boon can lead to some crazy shenanigans. Eternal Chamber makes those shenanigans even more apparently. I'm rating it a bit lower because it's generally in your favor to get the ramp-up in damage. But if you want to have fun, Eternal Chamber is the way to go.

Beta Tier

11. Explosive Fire

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 0

10. Flash Fire

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 1

Both of these seem like solid upgrades that will be useful in most encounters. I just think both of them are...unremarkable in the sense that I don't even remember grabbing either of these enhancements.

9. Triple Beam

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 2

When paired with Eternal Chamber, this leads to some pretty good times. Anyways, I like the laser beams and having more of them is always good. It's a little awkward to aim this, but you're probably getting good coverage?

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8. Ricochet Fire

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 1

That said, this probably does what Triple Beam intends to do. If you want to hit multiple enemies at once with the Rail, this one seems to be your best bet.

7. Triple Bomb

Times Used: 4
Times Cleared: 2

My best way of handling the "lobs" like Trippy Shot or the Rail special is to just shoot 3 at a time as quickly as possible. If you miss, you miss. If you hit, you do a good amount of damage. If I get this early, I will try out a heavy Special run with...mixed results.

Alpha Tier

6. Concentrated Fire

Times Used: 0
Times Cleared: 0

I apparently never received this? I know I received all upgrades for the (base) Rail, so I'm not sure what happened here. What I'm thinking is that I grabbed the Anvil at Charon's shop and it erased Concentrated Fire, which erased it from the stats.

In any case, very easy way to increase damage on Rail on basically all enemies.

5. Piercing Fire

Times Used: 4
Times Cleared: 1

I respect enhancements that destroy Armor. Probably best for your Tartarus hammer upgrade, but not a bad choice at all for Elysium. Bonus points to this one for doing something more than just "destroy armor". Piercing might actually be better than Ricochet for defeating multiple enemies at once with the Rail. It also goes past those god damn Greatshields.

4. Concentrated Beam

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 1

This...seems to have no drawbacks at all for something really good? I guess it doesn't actually increase the damage of Lucifer Rail, but it might as well. Usually my problem with Lucifer Rail is the inconsistency of shooting enemies. Some enemies get hit with the shorter range, sometimes you want to get max damage and you need to reload, etc. It's a little too much on the thinking part for me. So this beam just allows me to know that I'm doing max damage much, much quicker.

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3. Hazard Bomb

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 0

In one fell swoop, this enhancement makes it easier to hit enemies with the Special and also makes the Special your damage-dealing option as Rail. The problem is that it does not synergize well with Eris Rail. And I love Eris Rail, so unfortuantely, this is just not a viable option for me most of the time.

2. Cluster Bomb

Times Used: 3
Times Cleared: 2

On the other hand, this enhancement works very well with Eris Rail. I take back what I said about Piercing Fire. This is probably the most efficient way for Rail to clear out large groups of enemies.

1. Rocket Bomb

Times Used: 6
Times Cleared: 2

...Yeah, this one is just the clear winner. It's so much faster and easier to aim than the normal Special. It somehow synergizes really well with most of the Hammer enhancements of the Rail. It even does more damage than the normal Special. It unfortunately isn't a great supplement for Eris Rail, but at least it works.

Next up, the only God we haven't touched yet: Hermes! I'll go through every single one of the Hermes' boons.

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Rocket Bomb + Triple Bomb is good times.

Delta Chamber probably my most commonly used Rail boon. I don't think it really results in slower fire, and not having to reload is quite nice.
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eternal chamber + support fire

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

and cluster bomb + rocket bomb is pretty much guaranteed win

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jesus christ I didn't even think of that

I'm sure Eternal Chamber + Curse of Agony + Dire Misfortune is nuts too

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I got Rocket Bomb + Spread Fire on Eris aspect once and it basically became a melee run. It was pretty stupid but fun, and a lot of damage output.

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Targeting system is being massively underrated here. It's chill on your special but it doesn't take up a boon slot, you don't even need to hit with it and it buffs all your other damage as well. IDK how someone looks at that and doesn't go 'this is blatantly the best upgrade', honestly. The fact rockets nerf that upgrade instantaneously makes them worse than just keeping the classic shot, not to mention the fact they have worse synergy with both eris and hestia.

EDIT: to really emphasize just how good this is, lemme put it this way. Targeting System is a level 2 eris rail that doesn't force you to wait until your special shot resolves to benefit, that also slows enemies, and which can be applied to other aspects. Eris Rail is the best weapon in the game and it's not close. There is no stronger upgrade in the entire game in terms of pushing peak performance, I don't think.

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also hazard bomb doesn't grow the special's size I don't think? Not sure where that 'makes it easier to hit' thing came from.

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I'm fairly certain I saw Hazard Bomb increase in size. I watched my girlfriend do a run where Hazard Bomb was one of her first specials and it made targeting much easier throughout the run. I can't think of any other enhancement or boon that would increase the size of the special.

I think there's a huge difference between Eris Rail and Targeting System. Eris Rail has you target yourself, Targeting System has you targeting foes. Not only is it easier and more consistent to target yourself, but it can last for multiple enemies. I assume that once you kill an enemy that got targeted by Targeting System, it doesn't apply for the other foes unless they got hit by Targeting System too. It not being transferred easily to other foes greatly reduces how useful it is.

Hermes Boons

Gamma Tier

16. Greater Haste

Times Used: 7
Times Cleared: 1

You can move...faster. OK? Again, since you'll be dashing most of the time, not too useful.

15. Flurry Cast

Times Used: 10
Times Cleared: 3

Really only makes a difference with Trippy Shot/Festive Fog. The other ones don't really care about being casted 1 more second later or however long the default casting animation is. More importantly, Infernal Soul users should take note of this boon, because it's 1 of 2 options if you want to get Greater Recall.

14. Rush Delivery

Times Used: 4
Times Cleared: 3

A small upgrade. Makes Greater Haste more useful. There's also a very cheap Well of Charon item that increases your speed, so it's a damage upgrade. Very, very good on a Lambent Plume run, as that increase your move speed too. Basically, you'll know it when you want it and you'll know it when you don't want it.

Beta Tier

13. Swift Flourish

Times Used: 24
Times Cleared: 9

I usually pick up faster Special because some Specials can be real slow. Rail and Blade come to mind. But generally speaking, you're better off going after Swift Strike than Swift Flourish. You'll be doing more attacks and it synergizes well with the Flurry upgrades that exist on most weapons.

12. Auto Reload

Times Used: 4
Times Cleared: 3

A good option for the Stygian Soul, but you're better off trying to get another bloodstone. Opens up the door for Bad News, which is OK...in fact...


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11. Bad News

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 0

It's been sooo long since I've gotten Bad News, so I'm basing this entirely on its description. It's great for the highest damage cast builds, which all don't lodge themselves in the enemy anyways. So, in which case, Bad News applies all the time. Great! Now, for cast builds that do get lodged into the enemy...I don't really know about this one. It feels kind of like a cast version of Fiery Presence and you know how I feel about those. More importantly, it's just not good on bosses, because they will always have a bloodstone lodged in them anyways.

10. Greater Evasion

Times Used: 13
Times Cleared: 7

World of difference if you get Epic rarity vs. Common rarity. As a matter of fact, Hermes in general is very interesting to get higher rarity on. None of his boons can get upgraded by a Pom of Power, so rarity is really your only shot of getting a better deal. In any case, I tend to get Common Hermes due to my playstyle, so I mainly see 10% dodge chance. 1/10 chances of dodging is not great. If you can get to 1/5 or 1/4, awesome. I respect dodge quite a bit, as it allows for a much more aggressive playstyle. I just need a certain amount of dodge percentage before going in on it.

9. Greatest Reflex

Times Used: 30
Times Cleared: 17

Always go for it if you have Ruthless Reflex so you can get back to multi-dashing. With Greater Reflex...well. Having more dashes is usually in your favor. Most dashes tend to be offensive or status-applying, so having more of that is just good. It's just that there are usually other options that make more sense to pick up.

8. Swift Strike

Times Used: 19
Times Cleared: 8

Attack more...good.

7. Quick Reload

Times Used: 14
Times Cleared: 4

Allows you to cast more, especially since it's only picked up if you have Infernal Soul. Also, very obvious synergy with Exit Wounds. Also allows you to get Greater Recall. Good boon that has many benefits.

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6. Hyper Sprint

Times Used: 10
Times Cleared: 3

Sturdy is a neat status effect. It's one of those statuses that really benefit from seeing 3 choices and going "Well, nothing here really suits my build..." So you just go with Sturdy and move on. So you're Sturdy after you dash, which is going to be a lot of the time. Secondly, you run much faster. This beats out all those "you move faster generally" boons. When you need to go, you go. Very useful for chariots and Asterius, two of the more annoying enemies in runs.

Alpha Tier

5. Second Wind

Times Used: 10
Times Cleared: 6

30% dodge chance. That's more like what I'm talking about. Since I'm someone who generally likes to call whenever they can, this is an awesome side-upgrade to help with that. This is going to apply way more than the few times you'll be using greater call. Allows a bit of insurance for getting out of those sticky situations with Ares' Aid, Zeus' Aid, and Athena's Aid.

4. Side Hustle

Times Used: 32
Times Cleared: 13

Easy way to not have to worry for obol during a run. Especially good for Styx due to that endgame Charon shop and because each mini-chamber allows for Side Hustle to be used. But yeah, easy way to generate obol all throughout the game, but most apparent in Styx.

3. Quick Recovery

Times Used: 14
Times Cleared: 10

I'll be honest: the only reason this is not higher is because I can't easily notice when it's working or not. I'm assuming it works a lot. I dash all the time. I've gotten used to triggering Ruthless Reflex and Lightning Reflexes. I just never get the chance to see if my HP recovers after getting hit.

But based on the high clear rate, I'm assuming it does. In which case, a really great way to save HP, especially later in the run and especially with Hard Labor.

2. Greater Recall

Times Used: 12
Times Cleared: 8

The flipside to Stygian Soul + 1 extra bloodstone is Infernal Soul + Greater Recall. Works especially well with Slicing Shot and Blizzard Shot, which are two of the stronger casts that are a little annoying to get. If you don't need Greater Recall, it also works as a Pool of Purging fodder for an easy 400 obol. Especially nice if you're on a Lambent Plume run and you just get this during one of your Hermes picks. You'll know if you need Greater Recall or not.

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1. Quick Favor

Times Used: 19
Times Cleared: 11

Useful for normal encounters. Useful for bosses. The faster Call goes up, the better. I don't think this is particularly fast, but I think this is a boon that's good in just about every scenario. Since Hermes' boons are kinda all over the place and reliant on what kind of run you're doing, the rankings here are kind of loose. But I think getting faster call is always the right...well...call.

Next up, another god pool: Demeter. Probably going to be one of the rougher rankings to do, considering how wide-reaching Demeter's pool is.

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I don't think I can agree with Quick Favor at #1 just because it really sucks at lower rarities. I'll still take it occasionally at rare but I really want it to be at least Epic before I go for it. Still pretty high up at that point, but it's just often a dud.

And I agree that Greater Haste and Rush Delivery aren't great but they're such good in combination that I wouldn't rate them that poorly. Especially since I've been using Plume a lot more often. I dunno, I think you're right and these are just hard to rank.

Generally I've found myself going for whatever gets me Greater Recall, so I definitely agree there. For one-off boons I'm a big fan of side hustle and attack speed almost always, so I'd probably rate the latter higher.

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Fun thread.

Man, I've got 8 clears and there are so many boons I haven't seen still! I've only seen like half of those Hermes ones.

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Considering you're capped at 3 Hermes boons per build, Greater Haste + Rush Delivery isn't that great of a combo to deny me Greater Recall or...honestly, just 3 random Hermes boons. But yeah, doing Hermes made me realize that...he's probably the hardest to rank because there's so many ways he can be good to your build.

Misc Demeter Boons: (no primary boons, no duos)

Beta Tier

9. Killing Freeze

Times Used: 13
Times Cleared: 9
Ranked among Tier 2: 4/4

Demeter has a really awesome pool of boons. Simply getting to Hades gives a huge increase to your survivability for the rest of the game since you unlock Demeter. Demeter's pool doesn't quite compound as strongly as Zeus or Poseidon, but it makes up for it by being applicable to a lot of different strategies. Case in point: Killing Freeze. A very good boon. If you can get Chill on every enemy alive, you add Decay, which is basically a much stronger Hangover.

Pairs very, very well with Demeter's Aid and some Frost Flourish combos. If you can get reliably activate Killing Freeze, props to you. In my opinion, the hardest encounter rooms tend to be either too big or too many enemies to chill. For bosses, this works very well with Asterius/Theseus and Charon. Probably not too great for the others, especially Hades. Those skulls really mess things up. Still, not a bad boon at all and, worst comes to worst, it can be a stepping stone to Winter Harvest.

8. Snow Burst

Times Used: 14
Times Cleared: 12
Ranked among Tier 2: 3/4

Snow Burst is probably my middle-of-the-field boon for Demeter? Again, it says a lot about Demeter considering I love Snow Burst. It's area-of-effect is pretty large, it activates Chill so you can get closer to Arctic Blast or Killing Freeze, and I cast a lot. Good overall boon.

7. Nourished Soul

Times Used: ?
Times Cleared: ?
Ranked among Tier 1: 4/4

Yeah, I'm beginning to think the Archives only takes a snapshot of your file once you die and aren't able to capture the 1-time-use boons. That's fine. Nourished Soul is one of the better defensive boons. Not only does it heal you upon picking it up, but it makes food better for the rest of the game. That makes Harpy Feather Duster a much better keepsake to pick. If you're rolling with Companion Shady, it also makes him better.

Personally, I find food a little too RNG-dependent as a defensive option. Outside of the two options listed above, you could get an Eye of Lamia (which lasts 3 chambers!) or go to Charon's shop or get lucky on another boon like Poseidon's Sunken Treasure. Still, I'll never knock down food.

6. Frozen Touch

Times Used: 8
Times Cleared: 6
Ranked among Tier 1: 3/4

One of the better vengeance boons. Works very well if you have Arctic Blast or you're going for a Killing Freeze run. Also works very nicely defensively, since the enemy will slow down, allowing you to get out of that situation before damage piles up.

Alpha Tier

5. Rare Crop

Times Used: ?
Times Cleared: ?
Ranked among Tier 1: 2/4

Gets dramatically better with each Rarity. Like I said, I highly respect rarity and getting as many Heroic boons as possible is usually a good strategy. Usually not worth it if you get a Common Rare Crop unless you're real early in Tartarus. You should have so few boons that it will target one of those important boons anyways. Another thing: if you regularly purge your boons, you can have a better chance of getting a good boon upgraded as opposed to a crap one.

What's nice is that the upgrade from Common -> Heroic isn't bad at all. I think I got Rare Crop at Charon's Shop right before Theseus/Asterius and I had my Heroic Boons by the time I got to Hades. It counts those mini-chambers in Styx, so it clears out quickly.

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4. Glacial Glare

Times Used: 5
Times Cleared: 3
Ranked among Tier 2: 2/4

I like Crystal Beam. Glacial Glare makes it so much better. It's basically two major upgrades in one. It makes it last longer and it adds Chill. Works great with Arctic Blast and Killing Freeze. The only reason it's not higher is that the other boons are just better and more ubiquitous.

3. Winter Harvest

Times Used: 3
Times Cleared: 2
Ranked among Tier 3: 1/1

With this, you only have to take off 90% of HP, including bosses like Asterius and Hades. That's awesome. It's such a great killing animation too. Winter Harvest isn't really something you actively fish for like some other legendaries. But the prerequisites (2 of: Arctic Blast, Ravenous Will, Killing Freeze) are usually great boons to get anyways. I don't think it applies to every phase of Hades, just the last phase. But I'll take it.

2. Ravenous Will

Times Used: 15
Times Cleared: 7
Ranked among Tier 1: 1/4

One of the bigger reasons to keep Infernal Soul over Stygian Soul. On an Infernal Soul build, this is a pretty amazing boon, especially on the lodging casts. You should usually be at 0/3 bloodstones on an Infernal Soul build. Unfortunately, this does basically run counter to a Greater Recall build. Still, on most runs, this is a very ubiquitous boon to get, especially if you're just dabbling in Demeter rather than going full Demeter.

1. Arctic Blast

Times Used: 12
Times Cleared: 7
Ranked among Tier 2: 1/4

The bread-and-butter boon if you want to double down on Demeter. If you can get 10 chill, you get to do 80 damage. How do you get to 10 chill? Very easily, actually. Frozen Touch automatically gets you 10 chill. Demeter's Aid should get you 10 chill multiple times. Glacial Glare + Crystal Beam can get you 10 chill multiple times. Frost Flourish will get you 10 chill reliably on any Bow (special shoutouts to Chiron Bow). Frost Strike will get you 10 chill very reliably, especially on Fists or Rail. You're already doing a pretty substantial percentage-based damage with Frost Strike or Frost Flourish, getting more damage with Arctic Blast is just the cherry on top.

Next up, Bow hammer upgrades, one of which is probably my top enhancement in the entire game.

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ib4 flurry shot

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I don't see why these all need to be separate lists tho, seems like everything in this topic ought to be ranked in one list with everything in it!

Otherwise how can I know whether Keepsake: Bone Hourglass is better than Demeter Boon: Arctic Blast??

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Is Bone Hourglass better than X? No, the answer is always no. The only things it can beat are actively bad boons/Hammers that ruin your build.
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Bone Hourglass is pretty legit, the Well of Charon has good buffs. It's outclassed by just enough keepsakes to not be top tier.

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I actually did consider doing a gigantic list of all the God boons, subtracting out Duo boons and Primary boons. It was definitely a little too insane.

If we're ranking everything in Hades, rest assured that Divine Dash is #1. And chariots and Greatshields can rest at the bottom.

Bow Daedelus Enhancements

Gamma Tier

13. Point-Blank Shot

Times Used: 3
Times Cleared: 2

I respect range a lot. Making your Bow stronger in close-range seems like an odd decision. Especially since you already have an answer for close-range. The special works quite well as a shotgun blast if you're right in front of the enemy. I really don't see a point to using Point Blank Shot, as a result.

12. Sniper Shot

Times Used: 3
Times Cleared: 2

Distant attacks aren't very well-defined in the game. Distant basically means you hit with the last 25% of the total range of your weapon. So "distant" doesn't automatically mean you're doing more damage at range. Sniper Shot gives you a visual indication of where that is, which helps. I guess I'm just not very good at judging how far I'm at when I'm doing my shots. I'm more of a shoot-and-dash person.

11. Triple Shot

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 1

You shoot...but in three different directions. I don't really plan on aiming my 2 side arrows, but if they hit an enemy, cool. Gets a little lower than Triple Beam, because I feel like enemies are more likely to stumble into a beam than an arrow.

Beta Tier

10. Repulse Shot

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 1

Usually the hidden aspect upgrade does something to benefit the unique parts of the hidden aspect. With Shared Suffering, I thought there would be something unique to add, but instead we get...knockback on attack. It's not an awful upgrade. One of the weaknesses of Bow is that you don't really have an answer when you get surrounded by enemies. This answers it to some degree.

9. Explosive Shot

Times Used: 5
Times Cleared: 2

I'm generally not a fan of things that slow down the attack, especially so for Bow. It already takes quite a bit of time to line up a perfect shot. A perfect shot is already taking out most enemies until you get to around Elysium. Then you have to be more agile. That's usually the case for Elysium onwards. I respect the damage output of the Bow and especially with Explosive Shot. I just don't like how slow it is.

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8. Flurry Shot

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 1

Wiki tells me that Flurry Shots give you 60 damage. Perfect Shot is 70 damage. So really not that big of a change at all. I think "flurry" is a bit of a misnomer because Flurry Shot is pretty slow on Bow. Still, I'd probably take it over Explosive Shot since Flurry Shot allows me to be a bit more agile.

7. Piercing Volley

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 0

Armor destroying is great. Again, if you use the special like a shotgun, this is doubly useful, because it will go right through the enemy and hit the enemies behind.

6. Chain Shot

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 1

Kinda like Triple Shot, I don't actually know if anything is working. I just assume it is. However, my assumption on me hitting another enemy is dramatically higher with Chain Shot than Triple Shot. Considering that Bow has a pretty high damage output, 15% is pretty damn good too.

5. Twin Shot

Times Used: 1
Times Cleared: 0

One of the better damage-dealing upgrades on Bow. I don't mind the decrease in bow range too much, because you only need a decent amount of range to give you enough reaction time to most attacks.

Alpha Tier

4. Concentrated Volley

Times Used: 5
Times Cleared: 3

Awesome on Chiron Bow. Awesome on shotgun special with other Bow. I don't know how much it raises damage, but I think it works very well on both specials.

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3. Charged Volley

Times Used: 2
Times Cleared: 0

This should make the shotgun special even better. A little slower, but generally, that should be fine.

2. Perfect Shot

Times Used: 6
Times Cleared: 2

Perfect Shots are usually pretty easy to execute, but making that stronger is all the more better. Probably the best of the attack buffs.

1. Relentless Volley

Times Used: 8
Times Cleared: 5

Incredible on Chiron Bow. I think this buffs it by around 150-200%. Also good on other bow specials, but it's just so good on Chiron Bow. I've always loved Chiron Bow and Relentless Volley is probably the best thing to get while rolling with Chiron Bow.

Next up, Infernal Arms. I'll go over the base Zagreus form of all 6 weapons.

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Really not a fan of Triple Shot and Chain Shot on Chiron. They're good otherwise. I think I somehow never got Charged Volley...ever, despite playing Bow a lot. Hmm.
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I've never lost with flurry shot, it works with boons too well

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My preferred bow is Rama so the shotgun method and special buffing doesn't tend to be aligned with what I want. Additional shots can still be pretty nice with it sometimes, though. But this ranking is just completely incompatible with me since I sleep on the other bow aspects now.

I will say that even though I'd rank all the Attack buffs higher, Sniper Shot is still trash to me, I absolutely suck at aiming the bonus zone.

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Sniper Shot is the worst. It's way too far away to be useful in the slightest.
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Bump because I'm disapppointed the topic title is (so far) a LIE! ;)

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Tag for when I've played this more

Game is very good

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Are people over Hades now? The other topic died too. And I was just really getting into it.

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I still love it! A lot of us just...finished playing it, you know?
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Thanksgiving and Autumn Steam sale was a huge momentum stopper. Got some good games from the Steam sale. I even did a runthrough of Hades using Doom on Attack. Not bad, but I still feel comfortable keeping it at #40...!

Infernal Arms

Gamma Tier

6. Varatha, the Eternal Spear

Times Used: 22
Times Cleared: 7

The Jack of All Trades weapon. In the very earlygame, spear was my favorite. It seemed to do everything. It was ranged, yet melee. The special had a reason to exist. You even get a spin attack. The Daedelus upgrades seem all-around useful. As the game goes on, though, you begin to see all the complexities of each weapon and how they go well with a particular set of boons or upgrades. But not the spear. The spear always had a damage issue. There's just no real good set that does well with spear.

I suspect this might have to do with the alternative aspects. Guan Yu might as well not exist. Hades and Achilles are competent. Both of them do a good job of patching up spear's damage potential. But neither of them are really great. And neither of them are crazy to the extend that other aspects are for their respective weapon.

I might as well go over the Zagreus upgrades, since spoilers: I'm doing an Aspects ranking and I'm not ranking the base Zagreus upgrades. Just to go over Zagreus upgrades, they're all OK. If an aspect isn't jiving with you, it's worth a shot to fully upgrade Zagreus aspect, since it's only 5 Titan's Blood. Zagreus Spear is not bad. It buffs the special, which is probably going to be the main way to do damage.

5. Exagryph, the Adamant Rail

Times Used: 23
Times Cleared: 8

Probably the strangest weapon. You absolutely need to rekey the reload button. It was stuck on my R3 button of all things. There's a real damage potential issue with the Rail at first, especially if you're not using the alternate aspects. The percentage-based boons aren't great at all unless you do some wonky stuff with Targeting System. On the flipside, it should be really clear that Hangover, Doom, and Lightning all work very, very well on Rail.

My girlfrined and I both had some early breakthroughs thanks to Rail. I suspect a large part of that is simply because Rail is ranged and is better at clearing out encounter rooms than Bow. Anyways, the two biggest issues with Rail is dealing damage to those endgame enemies and being fairly reliant on certain gods. If you roll with the alternative aspects, they both get rid of these issues.

Zagreus aspect gives you more ammo for a maximum of 18 ammo. That's...fine? It's nice not having to reload, I guess, but it's kind of a minor upgrade.

Beta Tier

4. Malphon, the Twin Fists

Times Used: 25
Times Cleared: 8

It kinda hurts ranking Fists so low. It's one of my favorite to play as. Getting in enemies' face and punching them is just a great feeling. What hurts Fists is that you have most buffs in this game are percentage-based. Since Fists are multi-attack weapons, you're not getting too much bang for your buck with the Twin Fists.

I also think Fists aren't great in Elysium. Chariots and Flame Wheels are not fun with the Fists. Asterius is pretty scary too, since he has such wide range.

Fists have the best upgrade among the Zagreus aspects. Dodge chance at 15% seems OK, but it's a very nice start to a Plume build.

3. Stygius, the Blade of the Underworld

Times Used: 32
Times Cleared: 9

At first, it's easy to riff on blade. It has the most limited moveset. It's a little awkward with its combo because of the thrust at the end. All the other weapons are just more interesting. But I've grown to like Blade a lot. It does a lot of damage at a reasonable speed. It has a really good set of Daedelus Enhancements, probably the best out of all the weapons. Its special has a clear use and is probably the most useful special.

As for the Zagreus aspect...I dunno. You have to max it to get Skelly's max bond. It seems good? Using Poseidon Sword and Nemesis Sword, both of them already feel pretty fast, so making it even faster seems good to me.

Alpha Tier

2. Aegis, the Shield of Chaos

Times Used: 23
Times Cleared: 11

Blocking. It worked for the Greatshields and Theseus. And now it works for you. Blocking single-handedly makes the game much more beatable. Instead of having to dodge attacks, you can just sit there and block. It nullifies all damage. The only thing is that you have to absolutely be blocking against the direction where the attack hits you. That can throw you off a little bit. Sometimes dodging is even easier. But I prefer to mainly just block with the shield.

I don't particularly think Shield is fun. I also think the damage output is pretty bad. Thankfully, neither of these things matter too much, as survivability is more important than offense. The special has a nice purpose. There's a pretty high attack speed with the Shield, which means you can stunlock them well, but again, not amazing.

Zagreus aspect increases attack power. Yeah. That needed to be fixed. It helps that the other Shield aspects are not amazing, so you can actually roll with Zagreus Shield a lot.

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1. Coronacht, the Heart-Seeking Bow

Times Used: 25
Times Cleared: 10

I'll take Bow over Shield for a few reasons. One, that damage output. With 70 damage for a Perfect Shot, Bow destroys all other weapons for single-input damage. Second, range. Basically as good as block for avoiding damage. One thing I never liked about block is that you're basically forced to be in melee range, which is the most dangerous area to be. Bow takes care of that pretty easily. Finally...Bow is just way more fun.

Everything works well on Bow. All the aspects are great on Bow. Zagreus aspect increases critical chance, which is fine. Bow's a damage-dealer, so increasing that ceiling makes sense.

Next up, we'll go over Spear Daedelus enhancements.

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The spear would be so much better if one of the aspects made it so the special bounces between foes. There's a hammer upgrade that does that but it feels like it should really be baseline.

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Are the other shield aspects not amazing? At least to me, the Zeus shield feels better than every other weapon I've experienced. Being able to toss the shield and then have it chase after you as you dodge in circles can really tear through a ton of enemies (though I wonder how many people think to do that instead of simply tossing and calling it back - the best use of it isn't immediately obvious)

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Man I'm glad you ranked the Shield at 2 despite your clear disrespect in the writeup. Zeus and Beowulf aspects kick total ass.

CasanovaZelos posted...

Being able to toss the shield and then have it chase after you as you dodge in circles can really tear through a ton of enemies (though I wonder how many people think to do that instead of simply tossing and calling it back - the best use of it isn't immediately obvious)

This is absolutely it. Hangover on special is my go-to for this too. So good.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Is the type of game that's best played on PC?

It's isometric, so I'm not sure since PC is all I've played it on. It's great there though!

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I play PC and honestly it doesn't look really demanding graphically (it's the art-style that's incredible, not necessarily the graphics) so I wouldn't say playing it on that gives a great boost visually. As far as controls I play it using a gamepad anyway, and it seems like top players do also. Maybe if the framerate isn't up to snuff on console it wouldn't be worth it, but aside from possibly that I don't see any reason to be picky about what you play it on.

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I played exclusively on Switch in handheld mode. I would experience a little bit of slowdown at times in Elysium and Styx when there were a ton of enemies and I had a bunch of boons effects going at once but 99% of the time it ran fine.

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