Board 8 > How does one break their parents' addiction to Fox News?

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NFUN
10/10/20 4:08:06 PM
#51:


colliding posted...
Do you think that you con convince someone "obstinate due to bias" with the rightness of your opinions?
No, but I can't convince them for entirely different, far more intractable reasons than why they can't convince me. It's analogy that fails entirely, being, at best insulting to everybody and illuminating nothing, and at worst, an exercise in the harmful "reality is what I define it as" bullshit mental illness that's completely corrupted discourse

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PerfectChaosZ
10/10/20 4:12:35 PM
#52:


colliding posted...
and for some people on the right, liberalism is a cult. I've literally read/heard that before from them.

What? How could anyone say that with a straight face. Conservatives literally overlook any flaws in their people, call them their hero, hell some even literally call them gods or anointed by god. How is that not blasphemous as heck if youre Christian alongside those conservatives? I dont get it. You ever see those rallies? People crying, fervently screaming, its like growing up in a southern church. They say theyd die for Trump. My dad does. Kill or die for him. Thats not normal. A person who sits on a golden throne who couldnt give less of a shit about someone like my Dad who would watch him die for five bucks. And thats just because they like the person sooo much. Thats a cult! How do you explain it otherwise? Meanwhile, whats the worst a liberal will kill for? Not for a person I can tell you that. You cant call liberals a cult and then have them famously mocked for being divisive, never coming together on anything, and not being excited over Biden because he sucks. You dont get that on the conservative side. Theyll support someone they hate- and why? Theyre super together because they tell you that they are the only people who understand, who want to go back to mythic great times, and those other people are the scary ones! Thats literally cult rhetoric 101. I think whoever said that was probably in the context of nuhuh! youre the cult!
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colliding
10/10/20 4:17:21 PM
#53:


NFUN posted...
No, but I can't convince them for entirely different, far more intractable reasons than why they can't convince me. It's analogy that fails entirely, being, at best insulting to everybody and illuminating nothing, and at worst, an exercise in the harmful "reality is what I define it as" bullshit mental illness that's completely corrupted discourse

We basically agree;

Edit: nevermind, I should've just said "you can't" and never posted again in this topic.

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Mr Lasastryke
10/10/20 5:57:48 PM
#54:


colliding posted...
and for some people on the right, liberalism is a cult. I've literally read/heard that before from them.

those people are wrong

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Waluigi1
10/10/20 7:40:24 PM
#55:


I'm so thankful that my parents aren't like that. They don't really watch cable news channels or anything like that. My grandfather however, is deeply rooted in Trumpness unfortunately. He's one of those claiming the pandemic is a hoax created by the liberal media to control us or some bullshit.

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PerfectChaosZ
10/10/20 8:31:19 PM
#56:


Its painful. My father ceded some of his precious never gonna give this up over my dead body farmland over to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a group of which he is also a member, so that they could erect a gigantic 50-foot confederate flag over the local highway. Ugh.
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BadTopicIsBad
10/10/20 11:35:14 PM
#57:


colliding posted...
and for some people on the right, liberalism is a cult. I've literally read/heard that before from them.

Despite the fact that you're actually right and making good points, there's only one side in here attacking you and it isn't conservatives. I don't care that someone doesn't agree with my political views, only that they don't treat you like less of a person for it as I wouldn't do to others.

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Paratroopa1
10/11/20 3:22:19 AM
#58:


I have absolutely zero clue why colliding is getting dogpiled on, they're right?
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BadTopicIsBad
10/11/20 3:27:30 AM
#59:


Paratroopa1 posted...
I have absolutely zero clue why colliding is getting dogpiled on, they're right?

As someone who leans right, I can fully admit there are many on this side that are too extreme and often in the wrong. That is also true for the other side and I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that. Attacking someone or ganging up on them simply because you don't agree is often a good representation of too extreme.

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Paratroopa1
10/11/20 3:39:18 AM
#60:


BadTopicIsBad posted...
As someone who leans right, I can fully admit there are many on this side that are too extreme and often in the wrong. That is also true for the other side and I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that. Attacking someone or ganging up on them simply because you don't agree is often a good representation of too extreme.
Oh sorry, you might be under the false impression that we agree
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BadTopicIsBad
10/11/20 3:45:16 AM
#61:


Paratroopa1 posted...
Oh sorry, you might be under the false impression that we agree

We agree that colliding shouldn't be getting dogpiled on for some of the things they said. That's enough for me.

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Steiner
10/11/20 3:56:31 AM
#62:


have you considered adoption?

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Mr Lasastryke
10/11/20 6:33:50 AM
#63:


Paratroopa1 posted...
I have absolutely zero clue why colliding is getting dogpiled on, they're right?

he's right but i also don't get what the point of his posts is?

it's like if someone is saying "some people think the sky is purple and they're wrong" and colliding is saying "well, other people think that 'the sky is blue' is a wrong statement because the sky is purple from their perspective." sure, this is correct, but what's the merit in pointing this out?

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Paratroopa1
10/11/20 6:52:00 AM
#64:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
he's right but i also don't get what the point of his posts is?

it's like if someone is saying "some people think the sky is purple and they're wrong" and colliding is saying "well, other people think that 'the sky is blue' is a wrong statement because the sky is purple from their perspective." sure, this is correct, but what's the merit in pointing this out?
Like, his point is that the average Fox News viewer has been entrenched into Fox News's viewpoints to the extent that they just have a different belief about what truth is from the rest of us, and breaking them out of that would be like trying to break *us* out of *not* living in the Fox News world. It's hard conditioning to break out of - Fox News knows how to get people really addicted to what they're supplying. His point is perfectly salient to the discussion - I just mistook him as equivocating John Oliver to Fox News lol.
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Mr Lasastryke
10/11/20 7:25:59 AM
#65:


Paratroopa1 posted...
Like, his point is that the average Fox News viewer has been entrenched into Fox News's viewpoints to the extent that they just have a different belief about what truth is from the rest of us, and breaking them out of that would be like trying to break *us* out of *not* living in the Fox News world. It's hard conditioning to break out of - Fox News knows how to get people really addicted to what they're supplying. His point is perfectly salient to the discussion - I just mistook him as equivocating John Oliver to Fox News lol.

this point is valid in itself but i don't like individual sentences like "my whole point is that many fox news watchers/trumpers are just as convinced of the 'rightness' of their side than us leftist/liberal types are." like, i'm far to the left and i'm not at all saying "i'm 100% certain i'm correct about everything and it's absolutely impossible for someone to change my mind." i've changed my mind about political stuff many times in my life. it just rubs me the wrong way that colliding's posts come across as a more palatable version of the "both sides"-ing that corrik always does to everything politics-related.

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red sox 777
10/11/20 7:35:09 AM
#66:


Jakyl25 posted...
There was a court case against him where the defense was that his show is entertainment and shouldnt be taken seriously

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9

Rachel Maddow used the exact same defense, successfully. It's standard for opinion shows and gets you a quick dismissal of the case.

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red sox 777
10/11/20 7:40:24 AM
#67:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
this point is valid in itself but i don't like individual sentences like "my whole point is that many fox news watchers/trumpers are just as convinced of the 'rightness' of their side than us leftist/liberal types are." like, i'm far to the left and i'm not at all saying "i'm 100% certain i'm correct about everything and it's absolutely impossible for someone to change my mind." i've changed my mind about political stuff many times in my life. it just rubs me the wrong way that colliding's posts come across as a more palatable version of the "both sides"-ing that corrik always does to everything politics-related.

If everyone says the sky is purple and you say the sky is blue, aren't they right? If I have never seen the sky before, or I do not understand what "blue" and "purple" mean, why should I believe you over everyone saying it is purple?

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red sox 777
10/11/20 7:43:41 AM
#68:


I will also say that liberals, not conservatives, started the current trend of "reality is how I see it." Conservatives are just taking the idea to its logical conclusion.

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Mr Lasastryke
10/11/20 7:50:54 AM
#69:


red sox 777 posted...
If everyone says the sky is purple and you say the sky is blue, aren't they right? If I have never seen the sky before, or I do not understand what "blue" and "purple" mean, why should I believe you over everyone saying it is purple?

i think you meant to quote my previous post but yeah, obviously you shouldn't believe something just because i say it.

"you should believe whatever most people are saying" is also wrong, though, because https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

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red sox 777
10/11/20 7:59:46 AM
#70:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
i think you meant to quote my previous post but yeah, obviously you shouldn't believe something just because i say it.

"you should believe whatever most people are saying" is also wrong, though, because https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

I'm not talking about a bandwagon or believing things to fit in, I'm talking about the inherent subjectivity of naming things. Words have no meaning beyond what people assign to them. And if I'm a rational person who doesn't understand the words "blue" and "purple" because, let's say, I don't speak English, and I see everyone pointing at the sky and calling it purple, I will associate that word with the color of the sky. And I'd be right in doing so. Now, if they say the sky is purple and they also say that violet flowers, the fringe of a Roman toga, etc. are purple, then I would think there are three likely possibilities: (1) English uses one word for two colors, or (2) I can see more colors than these people, or (3) my eyes are deceiving me.

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red sox 777
10/11/20 8:04:14 AM
#71:


Anyways, if you want to create a dialogue with someone who doesn't share your views, it's generally really good to understand what is opinion, and what is fact. You will not get anywhere arguing about facts. It is not in the nature of a fact that it can be argued about. But you can argue about opinions, and most things are opinions when viewed with an open mind.

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Leonhart4
10/11/20 9:27:29 AM
#72:


Paratroopa1 posted...
I have absolutely zero clue why colliding is getting dogpiled on, they're right?

NFUN couldn't handle even the inference that anything he believes might not be fact lawl

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ExThaNemesis
10/11/20 10:25:35 AM
#73:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
those people are wrong

really? Watching y'all respond to colliding suggests otherwise lmao

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xp1337
10/11/20 10:31:22 AM
#74:


I think NFUN is arguing that it's reductive to equate "X believes one thing because it's fact." and "Y believes another because they're biased in favor of believing it." because they're substantively different in that the first person can be convinced/argued to a different point of presented with sufficient evidence that their position is in fact incorrect whereas the second will instead double-down on their point in the face of that evidence and dismiss that evidence as fake or biased.

It's a different argument/point than how to actually convince the second person they're incorrect but he's raising the issue because if you equate the two then you're implicitly saying the same approach could work for both cases - they're the same, after all!

I think both NFUN and colliding agree that convincing someone who holds their position because they've entered a bubble of confirmation bias is a very difficult thing, and I don't think either have offered a solution on how to actually achieve that goal (Indeed, colliding seems to say you can't accomplish this.) NFUN simply took issue with how he tried to frame his lead-up to this conclusion by trying to equate it with "How would one convince you that your beliefs are wrong?"

Ultimately the problem is that instead of arguing sides agreeing on the facts in a debate/argument/discussion and the argument arising out of that mutual acceptance of the underlying facts; increasingly you see more and more that people will adopt their own "facts" and so now the parties don't even agree on the most basic framework of the discussion. And there's no longer even any commonly accepted "refs" in this anymore to settle those disputes. (Journalists and the media used to play something akin to this role but no longer.)

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StartTheMachine
10/11/20 10:57:59 AM
#75:


xp1337 posted...
Ultimately the problem is that instead of arguing sides agreeing on the facts in a debate/argument/discussion and the argument arising out of that mutual acceptance of the underlying facts; increasingly you see more and more that people will adopt their own "facts" and so now the parties don't even agree on the most basic framework of the discussion. And there's no longer even any commonly accepted "refs" in this anymore to settle those disputes. (Journalists and the media used to play something akin to this role but no longer.)

On top of the never ending work of the right-wing media machine, I really think the internet has played an insanely huge role in festering this environment where people can outright deny reality. Just look at the spread of Flat Earthers, QAnon, and Covid denial online. I've been saying for years that the internet has become a net force of harm for the world. Considering a sizable portion of Republicans refusing to wear masks are the biggest reason the U.S. is still in the mess we are with Covid, I don't know how anyone could come to a different conclusion.

I still see "plandemic" posts on my social media feeds from right-wingers. People are naturally inclined towards confirmation bias, and social media has made weaving an alternative narrative of reality and dissemenating it to the masses all the easier. Everyone wants to be an expert, and one "convincing" climate denialism video is enough for someone whose political affiliation requires them to be emotionally attached to climate change not existing and science being wrong.

And even for those who aren't particularly political and emotionally attached to their biases, well, narratives questioning science and facts still muddy the waters of what is true and what is not.

We have lost the concept of truth. What a fucked up state we are in as a species.

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Mr Lasastryke
10/11/20 11:09:25 AM
#76:


ExThaNemesis posted...
really? Watching y'all respond to colliding suggests otherwise lmao

i wouldn't expect a different response from you

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NFUN
10/11/20 11:21:34 AM
#77:


Leonhart4 posted...
NFUN couldn't handle even the inference that anything he believes might not be fact lawl
I couldn't handle the implication that I'm as hopelessly stubbornly ignorant as people who believe Obama tried mounting a coup using Walmarts in Texas. I'm sure plenty of what I believe is wrong, but if that's demonstrated I'd change my beliefs to fit reality, not the converse

and ftr, if [general] you couldn't tell (reading is hard I know), colliding and I agree about reality. I took umbrage with his equating of two things he knew weren't equivalent

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Peace___Frog
10/11/20 11:30:03 AM
#78:


PerfectChaosZ posted...
Its painful. My father ceded some of his precious never gonna give this up over my dead body farmland over to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a group of which he is also a member, so that they could erect a gigantic 50-foot confederate flag over the local highway. Ugh.
That's honestly really sad. I'm sorry.

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Waluigi1
10/11/20 11:46:20 AM
#79:


Peace___Frog posted...
That's honestly really sad. I'm sorry.
No, it's fucking disgusting.

Anyway, watch the The Social Dilemma. It talks about what you guys are discussing right now. Honestly I think everyone should watch it, it can change the way you view social media.

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PerfectChaosZ
10/11/20 12:26:30 PM
#80:


Yeah. Thanks. Its fucked up. I was supposed to inherit that land someday. But now itll have a gigantic confederate flag over it forever. I dont want to raise my kids under that. Aside from how morally repugnant it is I dont want people trying to find who lives under it. They used him for what he had, they convinced a sad old lonely man to give up some of his land which I think he cared about more than anything.
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Maniac64
10/11/20 12:48:02 PM
#81:


Why did he have to sell/give away the land? Couldnt he have just flown it himself?

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PerfectChaosZ
10/11/20 1:32:40 PM
#82:


No clue, he didnt run it past me.
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HashtagSEP
10/11/20 1:50:46 PM
#83:


red sox 777 posted...
Rachel Maddow used the exact same defense, successfully. It's standard for opinion shows and gets you a quick dismissal of the case.

This isnt completely true. In Maddows case, it was about a specific segment, and the argument was that based on her tone and word choice during that segment compared to the rest of the show, one could tell she was giving an opinion, not a fact.

The Tucker Carlson case had Fox News literally argue his whole show is bullshit, basically.

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Leonhart4
10/11/20 2:00:23 PM
#84:


NFUN posted...
I couldn't handle the implication that I'm as hopelessly stubbornly ignorant as people who believe Obama tried mounting a coup using Walmarts in Texas. I'm sure plenty of what I believe is wrong, but if that's demonstrated I'd change my beliefs to fit reality, not the converse

and ftr, if [general] you couldn't tell (reading is hard I know), colliding and I agree about reality. I took umbrage with his equating of two things he knew weren't equivalent

I got the point. It was just meant to be a joke because it's like you were worried someone would actually think you were the same as right wing conspiracy theorists when the odds of that happening here are pretty low.

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Lolo_Guru
10/11/20 2:04:47 PM
#85:


Dad: (A Biden election) will result in us (the parents) dead and my children slaves.

No satire, his honest belief.
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StartTheMachine
10/11/20 2:19:24 PM
#86:


Whoa. My dad's a racist shit now but even my old man's kool-aid isn't spiked that hard.

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TheRock1525
10/11/20 2:24:00 PM
#87:


I'm rather lucky. My dad has moved significantly left over the years. He used to be a die hard Bill O'Reilly fan. Now he's big on stuff like gun control and welfare, and thinks Sean Hannity is the dumbest motherfucker alive. Although he does throw some unnecessary Xenophobia in there ("just another dumb bullheaded Irishman.").

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colliding
10/11/20 3:47:28 PM
#88:


Paratroopa1 posted...
Like, his point is that the average Fox News viewer has been entrenched into Fox News's viewpoints to the extent that they just have a different belief about what truth is from the rest of us, and breaking them out of that would be like trying to break *us* out of *not* living in the Fox News world. It's hard conditioning to break out of - Fox News knows how to get people really addicted to what they're supplying. His point is perfectly salient to the discussion - I just mistook him as equivocating John Oliver to Fox News lol.

yeah this is basically what I was trying to say the whole time. I just was too lazy to craft the sentences in an easily understandable way.

I still honestly don't understand what NFUN means about an "implication." Like I don't know how else I can say "I don't think your knowledge is the same as their knowledge. But their belief is stronger than your knowledge. And your knowledge is stronger than their belief."

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Maniac64
10/11/20 3:53:13 PM
#89:


PerfectChaosZ posted...
No clue, he didnt run it past me.
Ok. Was just curious how they talked him into that.

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NFUN
10/11/20 5:15:38 PM
#90:


colliding posted...
yeah this is basically what I was trying to say the whole time. I just was too lazy to craft the sentences in an easily understandable way.

I still honestly don't understand what NFUN means about an "implication." Like I don't know how else I can say "I don't think your knowledge is the same as their knowledge. But their belief is stronger than your knowledge. And your knowledge is stronger than their belief."
What you're saying here is that the two parties (as in groups, not political parties) have two different systems to view politics that are entirely incompatible. That they're *not* comparable. The rest of the topic you were implicitly saying that they *were* comparable, that it was merely a matter of perspective on facts everybody agrees upon. The response to "How can I stop my parents from watching Fox?" with your actual argument is "You can't, as the ideology Fox exposes is intractable from their beliefs". What you said was "How would your parents stop you from watching John Oliver?", which definitely implies that the scenarios are 1-to-1 comparable, having the same answer. The conclusion to be drawn from your point is that either that you have to prove that either network is garbage to convince the other side (which you've said is not your point) or that it's impossible to change anybody's minds due to obstinacy and brainwashing. Thus the implication that I'm as full as shit as like a Q Anoner. Remember, a key in you and Para's logic is that you *can't*, essentially no matter what, convince a Fox viewer to change their mind. That doesn't work in reverse

In conclusion, don't answer a question with a question

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PerfectChaosZ
10/11/20 5:25:02 PM
#91:


No idea. I don't go to those meetings. Dads just in this new group, Sons of the Confederate Veterans, a year or two ago and next thing I know he's giving them large donations and even a piece of his land? I was just flabbergasted, completely taken off guard. I still can't comprehend it. He told me he'd disown me from beyond the grave if I ever away a piece of that land, his family's land, so it must have been good.
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Leonhart4
10/11/20 7:30:39 PM
#92:


I mean, you can get them to stop, but they kinda have to come to that realization themselves, too. My mom used to watch Fox News all the time, but as they've somehow gradually become even more extreme right wing, she's stopped watching. She's still a conservative, but not that type of conservative.

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Kingfrost
10/11/20 7:54:04 PM
#93:


Before she died, my mom stopped watching Fox News (except Shepard Smith, but he was reasonable). I think she mostly quit because she had a disagreement with her friends over the 2012 primary. (They thought Donald Trump would make a good President, my mom couldn't stand the man. She was always fairly reasonable for a mostly-Republican voter. She thought Glenn Beck was crazy)
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red13n
10/11/20 7:55:08 PM
#94:


Kingfrost posted...
Before she died, my mom stopped watching Fox News (except Shepard Smith, but he was reasonable). I think she mostly quit because she had a disagreement with her friends over the 2012 primary. (They thought Donald Trump would make a good President, my mom couldn't stand the man. She was always fairly reasonable for a mostly-Republican voter. She thought Glenn Beck was crazy)
At the time Trump was telling Republican's exactly what they wanted to hear, that someone like Obama couldn't possibly be born in the United States.

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Dels
10/12/20 3:53:40 AM
#95:


ya'll are getting so offended over what colliding said, as if he was saying that liberalism is a cult or that john oliver is a biased/false news source. he clarified 50 posts ago that isn't what he meant.

the fact is, to the fox news watchers, they do believe these things. they believe that liberal news sources are all "fake news" and they believe it is a cult. doesn't matter if it's true or not. cognitive dissonance allows basically all people who are in cults to look at other groups and say "oh, those are cults, but my thing isn't a cult, i reasoned my way into it".

that's a basic fact that has to be admitted before you can begin to change their mind. perfectchaosz's post of like "there's no way anyone could believe that! they must have been trolling!" shows the total disconnect between people. i actually read the shit that fox news viewers believe, and they genuinely believe this. you won't be able to convince them to believe otherwise unless you at least start by understanding why they think what they do. it's really easy to dismiss them as trolls or "bad faith actors" or w/e, but as this topic shows, they are real people, they are our parents who we know are otherwise capable of maturity and love, but somehow went astray. cults work because they're able to take advantage of basic human nature.

but yes, there is a difference between someone entrenched in their beliefs due to cult indoctrination vs facts. if i had to begin formulating a way to get through to these people, i'd say start with:

a) showing that you're willing to listen to them and understand their PoV. (like, really understand, not just placate) every person out there who writes them off as deplorables and allows them to believe they are the victims, entrenches them further in their beliefs, so you can't do that.

and then b) try to convince them to open a rational dialogue. remember, the fox news viewers (or other similar groups) hate "the libs" because they believe "the libs" are against free speech and open thinking. they basically believe that they are "free thinkers", and because they are "free thinkers" they are smart enough to see that all non-fox news sources are biased. i would probably try to appeal to this sense of openmindedness, and maybe say something like "okay, you believe in free thinking. i watch john oliver, which you think is all bullshit, so if we had a conversation, you'd want me to consider that maybe john oliver is lying to me. that'd help me be a better free thinker. if i'm in a liberal cult, then that cult would have convinced me that everything it says is right, and it'd be really hard for me to get out of it. is there any chance that fox news is doing the same to you? how can you be sure that isn't happening?"

i'd also just appeal to their sense of hypocrisy. they really hate that "the libs don't allow any dissenting opinion, they act like everything they say is right and you have to listen or you're a bad person", so if they start being like "fox news is right about everything, you're an idiot", you could maybe appeal to them to not be hypocritical, and ask them to show the values that they claim "the libs" don't. "you really hate that the left doesn't listen to anyone with a different opinion, so don't be like that, i have a different opinion than you, so please listen to me" etc

probably hard to get to that point though since people will generally shut down the moment their beliefs are questioned, hence why i think it'd be important to at least broach the topic in a very diplomatic way and cultivate a sense of understanding before diving in. if you can actually get them to a point though where they're willing to look at things objectively and back them up with facts, you should have the upper hand though, because as people are saying, the "liberal side" is operating based on actual facts and knowledge. they are operating based on feelings. (despite their ben shapiro rallying cry) and one of those feelings is that they feel "the left" are bullies. that's why it's important to not do things like pile on colliding for trying to explain a different PoV, these things really reinforce that belief (as you can see with certain people popping in here to be like "see, you are a cult!")

it's also important imo to acknowledge the points where the left is weak, the news networks do post false stuff sometimes, extremists do exist, etc. if you pretend your side has no flaws, they will think you are a cultist, you have to acknowledge weak points to show them that you can be an unbiased free thinker as well. (and therefore encourage them to admit their own side's weak points)

and finally, i'd say remember it's literally impossible to ever change someone's belief in one conversation, the best goal would just be to make them slightly more open to it - to make them be a bit more openminded going forward, to maybe convince them to fact check one fox news claim in the future, maybe open them up to changing their mind in the future.

i'm not an expert on this though so this is all theoretical. lol
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Dels
10/12/20 4:07:28 AM
#96:


for the record i generally don't like "left vs right" framing so i sort of misspoke. being against fox news should not be a "left vs right" issue, it should just be a "rational people" issue, people with right-wing beliefs should also be against fox news doing propaganda and should want a more trustworthy network on their side
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Mr Lasastryke
10/12/20 6:50:35 AM
#97:


Dels posted...
they are operating based on feelings. (despite their ben shapiro rallying cry) and one of those feelings is that they feel "the left" are bullies. that's why it's important to not do things like pile on colliding for trying to explain a different PoV, these things really reinforce that belief (as you can see with certain people popping in here to be like "see, you are a cult!")

"you shouldn't collectively disagree with colliding because otherwise extha is going to say inane things" is stupid. the onus is on extha to recognize that his point is dumb.

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Steiner
10/12/20 7:56:39 AM
#98:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
"you shouldn't collectively disagree with colliding because otherwise extha is going to say inane things" is stupid. the onus is on extha to recognize that his point is dumb.

why has this become an extha thing

also amused at it being an extha thing considering extha's political leanings but ok

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Dels
10/12/20 8:00:28 AM
#99:


i mean this gets back to the point of the initial question. "how do you change someone's views" and i don't think the answer is "the onus is on them to recognize they are dumb"

extha or not, a lot of people see any form of collective ganging up on as "see, the left is so judgmental". let's say some hypothetical fox news viewer sees this thread, they would agree with extha's post probably.
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The Utility Man
10/12/20 8:22:32 AM
#100:


Dels posted...
A lot of stuff.

I'd have to throw my hat in with Dels here.

I feel like this shouldn't be a "my side is right and your side is wrong" thing. Try and understand them from their POV and try to get them to understand your side as peaceably as you can. If you completely write off people just based on their political leanings then you're giving up way too easily. If you truly believe that your way is correct, then you have to show it with actions that define what you say you're about and why you think your way is right.

Above all though, remember that having different opinions is not a bad thing and should be welcome. No single person is indicative of an entire group whether they are left wing, right wing, or in the middle. You can be friends with people who believe differently.

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