Board 8 > King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) R1D6: Terence D'Arby vs Yujiro Hanma (High)

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NFUN
07/06/20 7:53:30 PM
#1:


Welcome to the King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) Simulated Character Battle Tournament!

The game is simple. The two* listed characters are placed in an (imaginary) location with a variety of (imaginary) environments, kind of like a picture in a child's schoolbook that describes different types of geological features. Within a ten mile radius, there is an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains, etc. Fighters start wherever is most appropriate for them, but feel increasingly compelled to seek out their opponent and fight. Strong-willed fighters can try to hold out in their chosen environment for longer... eventually, all will succumb and actively search for the other to battle.

To participate, just vote in bold for whichever character you believe will win. Giving reasoning is optional, but please be polite and read what others have said and carefully make your decision. I'll ping the nominators (they can opt out) to give arguments if they wish.

TODAY'S PARTICIPANTS:
Terence D'Arby (Jojo's Bizarre Adventure)

Can read the mind of other people when he poses them yes or no questions

vs

Yujiro Hanma (Baki the Grappler)

"Absurd anime power scaling" sums him up pretty well.

D'arby has trapped Yujiro into a video game contest for his soul! Yujiro may choose the games. Whoever wins the best 2 of 3 is considered the victor. Will Yujiro's raw animeness translate to videogaming ability?

@Kamekguy @Pirateking2000

FIGHT

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rwlh
07/06/20 8:50:33 PM
#2:


I don't really know where to start with this one.
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Lopen
07/06/20 9:34:12 PM
#3:


Wonder what the recharge is on D'arby's totally not mercs ability.

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Drakeryn
07/06/20 9:48:57 PM
#4:


There's no recharge, he can spam it as much as he likes (I guess constrained by how long it takes him to mentally verbalize the question and then the time for their soul to reply yes/no)
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NFUN
07/06/20 10:21:46 PM
#5:


Lopen posted...
Wonder what the recharge is on D'arby's totally not mercs ability.
it's literally his power in the show what do you want from me

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Kamekguy
07/06/20 10:24:41 PM
#6:


How the D'arby fight works in Jojo's:

He is able to ask the soul of the individual a 'yes' or 'no' question. This can be entirely and 100% non-verbal; for example, he may ask them "are you planning on taking this shortcut?" and his opponent will not even realize that he's asked the question. This is best demonstrated when he plays F-Mega, which is basically F-Zero x Mach Rider

https://youtu.be/3490_-aL5oM

Man it's weird hearing the dub.

Kakyoin and no one else realizes that D'arby has read his mind and predicted the optimal strategy would be taken, thus changing his strategy for earlier on in the race so that he will be at lower power so he can take the secret speedrun shortcut. This is in a game of essentially F-Zero, which is a really fast game where cars move fast, meaning that he has little time to ask these soul questions. It is only when he gets super flustered at the end that he starts asking his questions out loud.

Of course, if someone were better at video games than him and either picked a game where they could act without thinking or found a way to mix him up (he is defeated by someone else playing the video game without him knowing and him getting inaccurate information from that ), then pride would become an issue. But D'arby is pretty gamer, at least through the early SNES era. It would take some determination, trickery, skill, or advanced game choice in order to beat him.

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Pirateking2000
07/06/20 10:25:03 PM
#7:


Doesn't his stand require the opponent to pledge their soul first? I don't see Yujiro doing that unless the challenge was specifically a brawl and really looking at D'Arby I doubt Yujiro would even entertain him and just proceed to tap him once with inhuman speed and win outright. It is unlikely D'Arby would take him unawares and if anything, Yujiro would catch him first due to fighting in Vietnam.

If he does have to play him at video games Yujiro would still likely win. Dude almost lost to Kakyoin legit and he was just a regular guy physically ignoring his stand. Yujiro has inhuman reflexes, speed, strength, and is very smart. He could also project his imagination on D'Arby to get him to "recognize defeat" on his own through sheer intimidation (and the D'arby boys were pretty easily flustered whenever shit got weird if I recall right).

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NFUN
07/06/20 11:12:02 PM
#8:


For the sake of being interesting the fight is entirely video gaming based. If Yujiro's speed and reflexes would translate to dexterity and video gaming, then that's a pretty strong case for him. Although, and this may be a stupid line of thinking but I think it has worth, do you think Yujiro would be able to pick a game he could actually win? If he ends up choosing a strategy game or something else that requires deeper understanding to do well, he could still lose despite being well-suited to it. He can ask about the games and have the rules explained to him. He just needs to have the personality to realize that he needs to ask around for one he could be good at (or to recognize his mistake in not doing this after his first loss).

What's his imagination projection ability?

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Kamekguy
07/06/20 11:25:19 PM
#9:


I will say that D'arby would not likely fold to intimidation. All of DIO's servants essentially believe that DIO is utterly unbeatable and immortal, and knowing that their loyalty is the only reason that they're alive and thriving with their powers. Even beyond that, he works with an evil baby with Freddy Krueger powers, a man that deletes people from existence, and Alessi, who I don't think I can describe his MO without being put on some kind of watchlist. It is very doubtful that D'arby would find intimidation from anyone else scarier than failing DIO. Coming to serve him is basically described by multiple people as a religious experience.

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Pirateking2000
07/06/20 11:27:29 PM
#10:


NFUN posted...
For the sake of being interesting the fight is entirely video gaming based. If Yujiro's speed and reflexes would translate to dexterity and video gaming, then that's a pretty strong case for him. Although, and this may be a stupid line of thinking but I think it has worth, do you think Yujiro would be able to pick a game he could actually win? If he ends up choosing a strategy game or something else that requires deeper understanding to do well, he could still lose despite being well-suited to it. He can ask about the games and have the rules explained to him. He just needs to have the personality to realize that he needs to ask around for one he could be good at (or to recognize his mistake in not doing this after his first loss).

What's his imagination projection ability?

Basically imagine poker face brought to a reality breaking level. It is a matter of psyching your opponent out so hard / believing in something so hard then it is. It basically functions as a sort of reality warping localized on himself with how it works. He is also able to do stuff like look at someone and make their clothes fly off simply from that or shake skyscrapers by just feeling like it. I could also see immediately mastering a video game (lets just say he picks a fighting game given his interest) once exposed to it. This is a guy who masters any fighting style INSTANTLY and makes it better after viewing it once for a few seconds (he does this to absolutely punk a large group of masters of various martial arts one after the other without even trying).

Another perk for him isn't just being way beyond D'arby physically to the point he could probably just win the game legit, but his ability to break him mentally. He can read his muscles, heart rate, and such.

Here is how I imagine the fight going if he must play by D'arby's rules (because realistically he would just OHKO him immediately). It probably wouldn't even require going to the end and he can just win through sheer intimidation. Yujiro picks a game, learns the controls. D'arby is cocky and begins. Yujiro proceeds to just read all his moves and reacting to frames instantaneously / in advance to make him go "oh shit has he played this before? His yes or no questions aren't going to be fast enough for Yujiro to just start getting the edge and would do so regardless.

This is when the imagination shenanigans comes in. D'arby starts seeing a giant praying mantis or something is reaching over to cut his head off as an extension of the way things are going. "WTF that is cheating! You are cheating...but he isn't. D'arby realizes he doesn't have a stand at all...what the fu-. He loses.

He looks up to see Yujiro just smiling / turning around revealing the "demon" on his back. He can see the demon! D'arby is fucking horrified. This man...this thing is not human! What the hell is he!?

"Do you see now? You are nothing compared to me. I am immortal, and you are nothing."

D'arby mentally folds triggering his stand as he has now recognized defeat. Yujiro is simply far beyond him. D'arby loses and Yujiro is just left standing there unsatisfied. No fight? How boring.

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Pirateking2000
07/07/20 1:46:23 AM
#11:


Kamekguy posted...
Coming to serve him is basically described by multiple people as a religious experience.

His brother folded to less. Also Yujiro's sheer presence probably beats DIO's. People have the same response to him as you are describing solely on his own without any of DIO's bullshit. Heck they are so overwhelmed by his presence people BEAT EACH OTHER / THEMSELVES UP rather than even entertaining the idea of challenging him.

https://imgur.com/a/38eFN7B
https://imgur.com/a/X7Kflw5
https://imgur.com/a/CaAxBJC

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NFUN
07/07/20 1:59:36 AM
#12:


I'm starting to remember why I had no description for this guy other than the aforementioned absurd anime power scaling

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rwlh
07/07/20 10:12:48 AM
#13:


rwlh posted...
I don't really know where to start with this one.

Still true.
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Lopen
07/07/20 10:55:26 AM
#14:


Drakeryn posted...
There's no recharge, he can spam it as much as he likes (I guess constrained by how long it takes him to mentally verbalize the question and then the time for their soul to reply yes/no)

So it's a passive then

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NFUN
07/07/20 11:07:05 AM
#15:


Lopen posted...
So it's a passive then
it's not mercs so stop throwing mercs terms in

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PrinceKaro
07/07/20 11:44:00 AM
#16:


NFUN posted...
D'arby has trapped Yujiro into a video game contest for his soul! Yujiro may choose the games. Whoever wins the best 2 of 3 is considered the victor. Will Yujiro's raw animeness translate to videogaming ability?

yeah ok, call me back when we are done with dumb shit like this

I dont care if Superman can beat Goku at dancing the argentine tango or whatever the fuck, I just want them to fight

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Kamekguy
07/07/20 11:52:41 AM
#17:


Pirateking2000 posted...
People have the same response to him as you are describing solely on his own without any of DIO's bullshit.

Nah, DIO exudes that by presence alone, as well. Avdol specifically says that he wanted to basically devote himself to DIO just by talking to him in the streets and it took forewarning and all of his willpower to run away from the offer of "hey wanna be my friend and/or slave" asked casually by an attractive shirtless man. Like, prop up your buff anime dude, absolutely, but it's explicitly stated that DIO gets people to join him solely through charisma, and that his power is basically just a cherry on top that cements "don't forget you're here forever". If there would be anyone with resistance to this from sheer "sorry bro already sold my soul", it'd be DIO's gang of losers.

In the hypothetical environment of a fighting game, I don't really think it matters since Yujiro would basically be learning the game's best options. Plus, there's the very simple example of mix-ups: all D'arby has to do is ask "block high?" and depending on yes/no, can immediately react to the character in question. Anything supplementary would not really work, as even if Yujiro had above-human reflexes down to a single frame, input lag and the fact that things are at 60 FPS would limit his total ability. D'arby would essentially be fighting Omega Rugal, but he can figure out which way he's blocking all of the time to either get a guaranteed in or a throw. Not to mention D'arby could easily counterpick characters without Yujiro getting the chance to feel them out/learn and memorize their frame data. Doesn't matter how good at reactions you are if you pick SF2 Zangief, you're still gonna get bodied.

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NFUN
07/07/20 12:18:01 PM
#18:


PrinceKaro posted...
yeah ok, call me back when we are done with dumb shit like this

I dont care if Superman can beat Goku at dancing the argentine tango or whatever the fuck, I just want them to fight
this is still literally D'arby's power. I didn't nominate him

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NFUN
07/07/20 12:19:20 PM
#19:


@PrinceKaro

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Kamekguy
07/07/20 12:27:58 PM
#20:


I am sorry, I like dumb gimmick matches. I don't find it too drastically different from guys who are, say, "this guy is invincible until you run out the timer" or guys with any sort of mental/willpower-based attacks, it's just testing a different skillset through the powers of the character.

I apologize if it's taking away from your enjoyment of debating people punching each other with voodoo ninja powers, though =<

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Drakeryn
07/07/20 12:31:53 PM
#21:


I feel like it really depends on the kind of game Yujiro picks.

For instance, if it's a fighting game, D'arby absolutely wins because of mix-ups (basically what Kamek said). He'll know what moves Yujiro is doing and he can counter/block/react perfectly.

But if it's a game with like...no direct character interaction, just both opponents playing PvE and competing for high score or speedruns, then Yujiro probably wins. (Assuming that inhuman fighting reflexes translates to video games, which they probably do?)
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Pirateking2000
07/07/20 12:32:03 PM
#22:


I am sorry, I like dumb gimmick matches. I don't find it too drastically different from guys who are, say, "this guy is invincible until you run out the timer" or guys with any sort of mental/willpower-based attacks, it's just testing a different skillset through the powers of the character.

I think the issue with this fight is the nature of his powers and the rules literally having to be rigged in his favor from the get go just for the sake of there even being an encounter. Like, this is "King of Fighters" not "King of Video Games". D'arby's power requires the opponent to play ball with him for it to even work which Yujiro wouldn't do. If the match played out as the OP stated originally with them just seeking each other out on a battlefield, Yujiro would just hunt him down and just OHKO him before he realized what was happening.

Like I could imagine something like D'arby VS Kaiji (which would be pretty fun now that I am thinking about it) or something but this doesn't work.

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Drakeryn
07/07/20 12:34:42 PM
#23:


(Also I like this gimmick match. It would be dumb in mercs because people craft their whole teams for fighting and it's therefore LAME to have a match with no fighting, but this isn't mercs soo)
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NFUN
07/07/20 12:49:19 PM
#24:


Pirateking2000 posted...
I think the issue with this fight is the nature of his powers and the rules literally having to be rigged in his favor from the get go just for the sake of there even being an encounter. Like, this is "King of Fighters" not "King of Video Games". D'arby's power requires the opponent to play ball with him for it to even work which Yujiro wouldn't do. If the match played out as the OP stated originally with them just seeking each other out on a battlefield, Yujiro would just hunt him down and just OHKO him before he realized what was happening.

Like I could imagine something like D'arby VS Kaiji (which would be pretty fun now that I am thinking about it) or something but this doesn't work.
Imagine D'arby, but instead of having the opponent need to agree to the competition, he can just pull him into the contest. That was a very possible way for his power to be written, and it wasn't for minor reasons. If it were like this, nothing fundamental would change in his appearance in Jojo, and nothing fundamental would change about D'arby's character... so it shouldn't be egregious to have it be that here, so that his power actually makes sense in this context. We're not going "hey sherlock holmes really fucking likes uno so now this match is uno", we're just changing a small parameter of his established power. Like, if somebody was nominated who has powers that only work in a certain location, for the purposes of their match, it would be given that their powers can work (at least somewhere) in the arena. Otherwise it sucks and is boring. D'arby was placed into high tier assuming all of his opponents would have to beat him in a game, instead of being low-tier fodder because nobody is going to take him up on his challenge.

Ultimately, you just don't like D'arby's power. Tough. Them's the breaks

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PrinceKaro
07/07/20 1:37:25 PM
#25:


See the issue is that combatants are not starting in a neutral state, it should be on D'arby to coerce his opponent to fighting him on his ground. You can't just start a wrestling match with one person in a headlock and call it fair.

In this case D'arbys opponent just says 'fuck video games' and caves his skull in.

Yujiro

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Shonen_Bat
07/07/20 1:43:11 PM
#26:


unless I missed something D'arby's power was never explained as "his opponent has to do the video game thing" until literally today which left me not knowing what kind of match this was for most of it

and to be honest I still have no idea

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NFUN
07/07/20 2:01:22 PM
#27:


Shonen_Bat posted...
unless I missed something D'arby's power was never explained as "his opponent has to do the video game thing" until literally today which left me not knowing what kind of match this was for most of it

and to be honest I still have no idea

NFUN posted...
D'arby has trapped Yujiro into a video game contest for his soul! Yujiro may choose the games. Whoever wins the best 2 of 3 is considered the victor. Will Yujiro's raw animeness translate to videogaming ability?


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Kamekguy
07/07/20 2:09:32 PM
#28:


PrinceKaro posted...
See the issue is that combatants are not starting in a neutral state, it should be on D'arby to coerce his opponent to fighting him on his ground. You can't just start a wrestling match with one person in a headlock and call it fair.

I will be fair and say that D'arby does have an advantage more than just "hey bro wanna play video games". He can take part of a soul permanently as his leverage; the example given in Jojo's is he takes Jotaro's arm and that basically guarantees it's permanently useless unless you beat him at video games. Dunno if that's enough sway, but that's the basis for his bargaining. It's fairly instantaneous as well, since Star Platinum couldn't react to it, who has "grab a bullet out of midair shot at point blank" as his baseline and his reflexes improve from there. If you wanna go the pure negotiation route, it's a guaranteed permanent loss of function if you don't play video games with the guy.

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PrinceKaro
07/07/20 2:40:26 PM
#29:


Kamekguy posted...
He can take part of a soul permanently as his leverage; the example given in Jojo's is he takes Jotaro's arm and that basically guarantees it's permanently useless unless you beat him at video games.

I just don't feel Yujiro is going to care. If some kid comes up to him and goes 'got your arm! lets play some smash bros and you can have it back, k?' He is just going to be even more fucking pissed.

On Yujiro:
'He seemingly lives only to fight and cause destruction to anything and everything he can. His whole life and mindset are dedicated to nothing but fighting and growing stronger with each person he defeats, sometimes killing them. He tends to kill people if pushed or enraged enough and does not show care or remorse when doing so.'

this seems like a real calm individual who thinks clearly about the consequences of his actions

how this matchup most likely plays out:

Yujiro loses an arm
D'arby loses most of his internal organs


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Drakeryn
07/07/20 3:06:40 PM
#30:


Actually, I forget. Why didn't Jotaro and co. just beat up D'Arby? I mean, yeah yeah video game soul wager, but D'Arby would have a lot harder time playing video games with all his fingers broken.

(This is probably just academic because I feel it's against the spirit of the hypothetical, but I am curious)
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NFUN
07/07/20 4:08:55 PM
#31:


PrinceKaro posted...
I just don't feel Yujiro is going to care. If some kid comes up to him and goes 'got your arm! lets play some smash bros and you can have it back, k?' He is just going to be even more fucking pissed.

On Yujiro:

this seems like a real calm individual who thinks clearly about the consequences of his actions

how this matchup most likely plays out:

Yujiro loses an arm
D'arby loses most of his internal organs
He doesn't have a choice. He's playing the games or he's losing

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PrinceKaro
07/07/20 4:17:35 PM
#32:


My idea of winning or losing is different than yours and thus my vote remains the same

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Pirateking2000
07/07/20 4:18:15 PM
#33:


NFUN posted...
He doesn't have a choice. He's playing the games or he's losing

Okay but nothing is stopping Yujiro from cheating with imagination projection. He can straight up either fuck up D'Arby's muscle movements / get him to wail on himself or more likely KO him with the game still in play without laying a finger on him simply from his presence. Knowing what to do won't mean much if your body doesn't make it work. D'Arby has no way of proving he is cheating as he does not have a stand so he can't confidently say how he is doing what he is doing. He can claim "You must be using a stand!" but he'd be wrong and nothing would happen (though I don't think anything would anyway there situation was more still having to go after DIO and stuff). Yujiro still wins regardless

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NFUN
07/07/20 4:25:48 PM
#34:


PrinceKaro posted...
My idea of winning or losing is different than yours and thus my vote remains the same
and thus it doesn't count

Pirateking2000 posted...
Okay but nothing is stopping Yujiro from cheating with imagination projection. He can straight up either fuck up D'Arby's muscle movements / get him to wail on himself or more likely KO him with the game still in play without laying a finger on him. Heck Yujiro might not even consider it cheating himself so the stand probably wouldn't think it so. D'Arby has no way of proving he is cheating as he does not have a stand so he can't confidently say how he is doing what he is doing. He can claim "You must be using a stand!" but he'd be wrong and nothing would happen (though I don't think anything would anyway there situation was more still having to go after DIO and stuff). Yujiro still wins regardless
see here's an actual argument

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PrinceKaro
07/07/20 4:56:29 PM
#35:


NFUN posted...
and thus it doesn't count

the rules of the contest do not require reasoning to be given at all so it sounds like you are just being a dick

Pirateking2000 posted...
Okay but nothing is stopping Yujiro from cheating with imagination projection. He can straight up either fuck up D'Arby's muscle movements / get him to wail on himself or more likely KO him with the game still in play without laying a finger on him simply from his presence. Knowing what to do won't mean much if your body doesn't make it work. D'Arby has no way of proving he is cheating as he does not have a stand so he can't confidently say how he is doing what he is doing. He can claim "You must be using a stand!" but he'd be wrong and nothing would happen (though I don't think anything would anyway there situation was more still having to go after DIO and stuff). Yujiro still wins regardless

But here, Yujiro wins becasue of this shit. Better?


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NFUN
07/07/20 5:47:24 PM
#36:


PrinceKaro posted...
the rules of the contest do not require reasoning to be given at all so it sounds like you are just being a dick
Gotta vote based on what's given. For an earlier match, for example, if your logic is that Rand wins because balefire OP, it's invalid

PrinceKaro posted...
But here, Yujiro wins becasue of this shit. Better?
See? Was that so hard? Don't be dumb enough to announce you're ignoring the scenario and I won't know if you are

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NFUN
07/07/20 8:13:03 PM
#37:


Yujiro's description makes him out to be an arrogant merciless bastard who would consider cheating to be perfectly fair game, so he gets the W

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