Poll of the Day > Is this fraud?

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Muscles
06/29/20 11:46:06 PM
#1:


So I have been back to work for like a week and we are constantly short handed because a lot people aren't answering their phones to come back to work, isn't that unemployment fraud?

You would think if turning down a job offer is unemployment fraud this would be too

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Mead
06/30/20 12:00:06 AM
#2:


People are allowed to not answer their phones, so no this is not fraud muscles, they just dont like you

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Krazy_Kirby
06/30/20 12:14:15 AM
#3:


sounds like they should get emails/voicemails/texts saying they will be fired if they don't start coming in
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BlackScythe0
06/30/20 12:17:32 AM
#4:


I don't know, it's a common practice though? People did it before this, it's just at an all new level because of the virus nonsense. My place is flooded with applications but no one will answer their phones. All they have to do is put in the app, there is no system I am aware of that allows you to turn them in for not actually making an effort to get a job.

Blame the government for giving people 2-3 times what they would make working by staying home drawing unemployment.
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Muscles
06/30/20 12:22:17 AM
#5:


BlackScythe0 posted...
I don't know, it's a common practice though? People did it before this, it's just at an all new level because of the virus nonsense. My place is flooded with applications but no one will answer their phones. All they have to do is put in the app, there is no system I am aware of that allows you to turn them in for not actually making an effort to get a job.

Blame the government for giving people 2-3 times what they would make working by staying home drawing unemployment.
I just think if your work says they need you then you should no longer be eligible for unemployment, outside of the standard exceptions, seems crooked that you can ignore them for at least a couple of weeks and keep collecting unemployment

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Muscles
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Mead
06/30/20 12:46:53 AM
#6:


Muscles posted...
I just think if your work says they need you then you should no longer be eligible for unemployment, outside of the standard exceptions, seems crooked that you can ignore them for at least a couple of weeks and keep collecting unemployment

some people use the time theyre on unemployment to train for another type of work or go back to school

they just need to show that they are looking for work, they arent obligated to return to their old job. People pay into the unemployment program so there isnt anything wrong with them receiving the benefits of the program when they need it

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HelIWithoutSin
06/30/20 12:49:45 AM
#7:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhnUxoucbo

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Muscles
06/30/20 12:54:17 AM
#8:


Mead posted...
some people use the time theyre on unemployment to train for another type of work or go back to school

they just need to show that they are looking for work, they arent obligated to return to their old job. People pay into the unemployment program so there isnt anything wrong with them receiving the benefits of the program when they need it
This isn't regular umemployment, they are still employed with the company, they didnt get laid off, hell, they are even offering limited hours so people can stay on unemployment

I don't have an issue with people collecting unemployment, I just think if you have a job and they want you to work that it's the right thing to go back to work and not fuck over your coworkers

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FrndNhbrHdCEman
06/30/20 12:56:39 AM
#9:


Muscles posted...
This isn't regular umemployment, they are still employed with the company, they didnt get laid off, hell, they are even offering limited hours so people can stay on unemployment

I don't have an issue with people collecting unemployment, I just think if you have a job and they want you to work that it's the right thing to go back to work and not fuck over your coworkers
ya and risk getting Covid. If you dont believe its real thats your call but they can hide fam.

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Krazy_Kirby
06/30/20 12:57:33 AM
#10:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

ya and risk getting Covid. If you dont believe its real thats your call but they can hide fam.


and then they can be fired
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
06/30/20 12:59:32 AM
#11:


Krazy_Kirby posted...
and then they can be fired
Id rather get fired than get Covid-19. We know being republican Muscles doesnt believe its real.

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Mead
06/30/20 1:01:35 AM
#12:


Muscles posted...
it's the right thing to go back to work and not fuck over your coworkers

its up to them, they aint slaves

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Muscles
06/30/20 1:04:09 AM
#13:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Id rather get fired than get Covid-19. We know being republican Muscles doesnt believe its real.
I am not a republican and I know for a fact that its real, I never denied that it was real so I'm not sure why you think that

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Muscles
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
06/30/20 1:06:21 AM
#14:


Muscles posted...
I am not a republican and I know for a fact that its real, I never denied that it was real so I'm not sure why you think that
Bruh. Ive been here since before Trumps presidency started. Dont jerk me around with that not a republican bs. Zeus tried it and no one was buying it either.

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Muscles
06/30/20 1:11:05 AM
#15:


I voted for Gary Johnson the last 2 elections and I'm going to vote for Jorgensen this time, I think the republicans are corrupt pieces of shit that only care about making the rich richer, just because I hate democrats too does not mean I'm a republican

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Muscles
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Zeus
06/30/20 1:22:29 AM
#16:


If you think that's bad, a lot of states have outright suspended the "must look for work" requirement so they're basically handing out free money. It's fucking ridiculous. And they're already bitching about budget shortfalls. Well, if you pay people to stay at home (not to mention shut down a ton of your state's businesses), your expenses go through the roof and your revenue goes down, geniuses!

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Muscles
06/30/20 1:24:05 AM
#17:


Zeus posted...
If you think that's bad, a lot of states have outright suspended the "must look for work" requirement so they're basically handing out free money. It's fucking ridiculous. And they're already bitching about budget shortfalls. Well, if you pay people to stay at home (not to mention shut down a ton of your state's businesses), your expenses go through the roof and your revenue goes down, geniuses!
I have no qualms with not needing to look for work if you already are employed but can't work because they are shut down

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Muscles
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Zeus
06/30/20 2:00:21 AM
#18:


The issue is shit should be open. And a lot of people aren't furloughed, they were simply laid off so they need other employment anyway.

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#19
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LinkPizza
06/30/20 2:14:44 AM
#20:


Muscles posted...
You would think if turning down a job offer is unemployment fraud this would be too

I just wanted to say that turning down a job offer is not always unemployment fraud. You can turn down a job that "does not represent suitable employment". The rules change state from state on what "suitable employment" entails...

Krazy_Kirby posted...
sounds like they should get emails/voicemails/texts saying they will be fired if they don't start coming in

They probably want that...
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Blaqthourne
06/30/20 3:53:05 AM
#21:


Sounds like job abandonment to me.
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ClarkDuke
06/30/20 4:33:50 AM
#22:


Muscles posted...
I voted for Gary Johnson the last 2 elections and I'm going to vote for Jorgensen this time, I think the republicans are corrupt pieces of shit that only care about making the rich richer, just because I hate democrats too does not mean I'm a republican
of course muscles, would throw away his vote, ok?

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Muscles
06/30/20 12:04:46 PM
#23:


How is voting 3rd party a wasted vote? I guess any vote for the loser is also a wasted vote then? And if you vote for the winner but they lost your county/state?

You idiots that push "a 3rd party can't win" bs is only a thing because you refuse to vote 3rd party, if everyone that thought voting 3rd party is a waste voted 3rd party they would win handily

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Muscles
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Aculo
06/30/20 12:09:33 PM
#24:


Muscles posted...
I voted for Gary Johnson the last 2 elections and I'm going to vote for Jorgensen this time
good fuck you're even more basic than i thought. when are you going to get tired of this edgy high school behavior and just grow up, man?

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LinkPizza
06/30/20 12:12:24 PM
#25:


Muscles posted...
if everyone that thought voting 3rd party is a waste voted 3rd party they would win handily

Thats because thats how voting works. Whoever gets the most votes wins... Its just that third party usually doesnt get the most votes. I wouldnt say its a wasted vote. But they usually dont have enough votes to win.
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Muscles
06/30/20 12:13:03 PM
#26:


How is not voting for 1 of the 2 basic parties basic? It's like you just attack me to attack me without thinking it through

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wolfy42
06/30/20 12:19:46 PM
#27:


Well it probably depends on what state you are in as well, Washington for instance allows you to not go to work if there is a stay at home order and still get unemployment (unless you were working a mandatory job etc).

That pretty much ends at the end of July though.

Up until that point you have the option of not going to work if you believe it's too risky and still getting unemployment, which sadly is more than most people make with a full time job.

I'm a bit on the fence on this issue to be honest, I think the way they set up unemployment is waked, but it ends in 4 weeks (and may require you to start actively looking for work staring this week).

That being said, currently the number of new virus cases per day are higher then they have ever been in the US (also higher then they have been anywhere else), so this isn't really a GREAT time to be going back to work if you can avoid it.

The real question is, will people who don't need to work for the near future, go back to work, or start working, if there is a high risk they will get sick if they do, and should they even be expected to take that risk?

Part of the big problem is that many people have been getting much more then they normally make in unemployment for months, and currently have enough to pay their living expenses for many more months because of that. In some cases people were getting over 1k a week, and are only spending 1k total a month lol.

That is literally enough for them to live off for years without working at this point (saying they started getting benefits at the start of Feb that is 20k+ they recieved by now.

Saying they spend 5k of that, they would still at this point have 15k left over for future expenses, and have at least 4 more weeks of benefits coming in so 18k after spending 1k this month). That is enough for those who are frugal (generally those people making near minimum wage most places or about 45% of the population), to live off what they have saved for the next year and a half.

Convincing them to go to work while they are not safe, and don't need the money, is going to be hard.

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Cacciato
06/30/20 12:28:16 PM
#28:


Muscles posted...
without thinking it through
Well youre the expert on that act
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wwinterj25
06/30/20 12:35:07 PM
#29:


Muscles posted...
You would think if turning down a job offer is unemployment fraud this would be too

Why would you think that? Many job offers are nor right for people yet they are still unemployed so no fraud here. If they turn down suitable job offers for no reason at all other than "I don't want to" then that is making themselves unemployed but still not fraud. Also not answering the phone to avoid going into work still isn't fraud.

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adjl
06/30/20 12:59:23 PM
#30:


wwinterj25 posted...
If they turn down suitable job offers for no reason at all other than "I don't want to" then that is making themselves unemployed but still not fraud.

That's generally not enough to stay on unemployment benefits, though. Those generally come with the condition of actively seeking work, and if you're turning down suitable jobs, you can't claim to be actively seeking work (since, you know, you found it, but then didn't take it). If you've got a good reason for turning it down, sure, but the phrase "suitable job" preemptively indicates that that's not the case.

Krazy_Kirby posted...
and then they can be fired

Most OHS legislation protects employees from being fired for refusing work that they reasonably feel is unsafe. Given how incapable much of America seems to be of following basic infection control protocols, I'd say it's pretty reasonable to feel that a public-facing job is unsafe.

Krazy_Kirby posted...
sounds like they should get emails/voicemails/texts saying they will be fired if they don't start coming in

Making some kind of written record of the offer of work is indeed probably the best option, especially if they use multiple channels. The person can still claim to have not seen it, but if you're e-mailing, texting, and calling them multiple times, you can pretty safely fire back that they have failed to make themselves available to be contacted for work and are therefore unsuitable for the job.

BlackScythe0 posted...
Blame the government for giving people 2-3 times what they would make working by staying home drawing unemployment.

I mean, I feel the root issue is not how much the government is giving, but rather that the amount the government has needed to give to ensure everyone's survival is so much more than they were getting paid beforehand. Unemployment being so much higher than actual wages is more a reflection of how low the wages are than how high unemployment is.

Zeus posted...
The issue is s*** should be open.

Ah yes. Infection rates are higher than ever across the country, states are breaking records for new cases every day, the president wants to halt testing (and, by extension, contact tracing) to make the numbers look better without actually solving the problem... Clearly, the pandemic has been brought well under control and it's time to start reopening everything instead of continuing to try to slow it down.

Tired of stuff being closed? That's what happens when half the country insist on throwing a tantrum instead of listening to public health recommendations that have worked just fine in dozens of other countries. Now they get to safely reopen and the US doesn't. Cause, meet effect.

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wolfy42
06/30/20 1:11:06 PM
#31:


I think many of you don't understand that currently you don't need to seek work to remain on unemployment, so it's not fraud. That may change soon, but for now, you do not have to look for work to receive unemployment under the PUA.

In theory, you could even quit a job and STILL qualify because of stay at home orders, especially if your high risk.

The qualifications for receiving unemployment under the PUA are very small, almost anyone could qualify if they wanted to. Basically if you have a work from home job, and quit, you wouldn't qualify.

If you work at a job that isn't following safety precautions and you don't feel safe, you can qualify even if you quit.
If your high risk, you can quit as you have been told to stay at home.
If you didn't have a job at all, you can qualify because you can't look for a job safely.

So again, people are not required to go back to their old jobs, since they are not required to LOOK for work at all right now. Technically if they turn down a job they need to report that, but, they are not required to call back their ex-employers to get a job offer from them.

Initially at least in WA this was set to end July 1st and the PUA is set to end at the end of July...but they may extend one or both of those deadlines.

Part of the problem is ....well, they extreme range in wages.

Some people can live on $1000 a month just fine (and in fact without having to work and spend money on travel etc, even less), others are going to struggle on $3000 a month. This led them to adding....I think it was $600? A week to unemployment during the PUA.

Min wage varies, as does the base min unemployment you can get from state to state, but for easy numbers, lets use $10 an hour as a semi-universal min wage currently, and base min unemployment as $200 a week.

A large percentage of jobs pay min wage or near min wage, for those people if we use $10 an hour, that is $400 a week and $1200 a month, or about $1000 a month after taxes etc.

Meanwhile under the PUA they get a MINIMUM of $800 a week, and probably more like $1000. So they are making literally as much per week as they used to make per month working full time.

Yes, part of the problem was so many jobs were paying that little (also don't forget many min wage jobs refuse to give a full 40 hours, and many were living on 34 or less hours a week as well).

Again, as I posted above, for many living paycheck to paycheck, they have gotten 4x as much as they usually make per month, for over 5 months now. That is enough for them to comfortably live for well over a year before having to go back to work at this point. Why would they risk going out and getting sick to work a job they don't need in the near future?

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wwinterj25
06/30/20 1:34:10 PM
#32:


adjl posted...
That's generally not enough to stay on unemployment benefits, though. Those generally come with the condition of actively seeking work, and if you're turning down suitable jobs, you can't claim to be actively seeking work (since, you know, you found it, but then didn't take it). If you've got a good reason for turning it down, sure, but the phrase "suitable job" preemptively indicates that that's not the case. If you're going to voluntarily refuse the employment that you do find, you shouldn't be receiving income that's meant to tide you over until you can find employment.

Indeed. It's the same over here on that front. We must be actively seeking work and prove we are doing so in order to claim unemployment. If you do turn down job offers you must have valid reasons. They also at times send folk on work programs, some are even working while still been unemployed under these programs.


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Muscles
06/30/20 1:44:58 PM
#33:


wolfy42 posted...
So again, people are not required to go back to their old jobs, since they are not required to LOOK for work at all right now. Technically if they turn down a job they need to report that, but, they are not required to call back their ex-employers to get a job offer from them.
Its not their old job, its their current job, you can't just blow off work because you want to, that's irresponsible

Also, here, people still have to look for work, everyone I know thats on it has to fill out stuff weekly to say they looked for jobs, even the people currently employed

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Mead
06/30/20 1:46:22 PM
#34:


Muscles posted...
Its not their old job, its their current job, you can't just blow off work because you want to, that's irresponsible

why not, employers lay off employees at the drop of a hat

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LinkPizza
06/30/20 1:48:00 PM
#35:


Muscles posted...
Its not their old job, its their current job, you can't just blow off work because you want to, that's irresponsible

Except Wolfy was saying you basically can. People can apparently still stay home if they dont feel safe going out or to work... Which does make sense...

Muscles posted...
Also, here, people still have to look for work, everyone I know thats on it has to fill out stuff weekly to say they looked for jobs, even the people currently employed

You can turn down a job thats not suitable, though. What classified as suitable depends state to state. Like I think California says suitable is if the job is in the same field or something...
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wolfy42
06/30/20 3:26:32 PM
#36:


Yeah it's hard because some of this varies by state.

In WA you basically don't need to work, or look for a job now at all.

Your state may be different but I don't know if it really matters even if it is, since you qualify under the PUA by NOT qualifying under the states normal unemployement.

Under the PUA basically you don't have to look for work right now, you can actually quit a job and still qualify, and a bunch of things that normally disqualify you don't.

And if they were not paid for more then 2 weeks, they were no longer employees.

Companies can't just not pay you for months then expect you to come back when they can pay you again, after 2 weeks you are no longer considered an employee and are not required to go back to work, in fact 2 weeks of not working is what is required to qualify for normal unemployment I believe.

And if you look at it from their perspective, there is absolutely no reason for them to go back to work right now, other than just feeling obligated to do so.

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ChaosAzeroth
06/30/20 3:51:21 PM
#37:


What I'm finding kind of odd is people talking about working while getting unemployment.

My sister got denied the first time for supposedly working too much the last week she was employed. She was laid off before applying for unemployment.

Is this a state by state thing? A new thing to encourage people to work?
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#38
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Muscles
06/30/20 4:24:06 PM
#39:


ChaosAzeroth posted...
What I'm finding kind of odd is people talking about working while getting unemployment.

My sister got denied the first time for supposedly working too much the last week she was employed. She was laid off before applying for unemployment.

Is this a state by state thing? A new thing to encourage people to work?
Here, if you make less than you qualify for from work you are still eligible, at least rn, I have never had to fill out unemployment before this

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ChaosAzeroth
06/30/20 4:28:06 PM
#40:


Thanks for the answers!
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ClarkDuke
06/30/20 6:35:42 PM
#41:


Muscles posted...
Its not their old job, its their current job, you can't just blow off work because you want to, that's irresponsible

Also, here, people still have to look for work, everyone I know thats on it has to fill out stuff weekly to say they looked for jobs, even the people currently employed
answer adjl, you can't avoid answering him because he refuted your point, and continue on like it wasn't said, this isn't a democracy, ok?

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Mead
06/30/20 7:19:02 PM
#42:




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HelIWithoutSin
06/30/20 7:30:22 PM
#43:


lmao

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Zeus
06/30/20 9:40:43 PM
#44:


adjl posted...
Ah yes. Infection rates are higher than ever across the country, states are breaking records for new cases every day, the president wants to halt testing (and, by extension, contact tracing) to make the numbers look better without actually solving the problem... Clearly, the pandemic has been brought well under control and it's time to start reopening everything instead of continuing to try to slow it down.

Tired of stuff being closed? That's what happens when half the country insist on throwing a tantrum instead of listening to public health recommendations that have worked just fine in dozens of other countries. Now they get to safely reopen and the US doesn't. Cause, meet effect.

Pretty sure "half the country" wasn't at those BLM protests. Probably wasn't even 5% of the country, so that's a lame excuse. Meanwhile the country has been shut down for months and, as we've seen from BLM protests, there's been literally no reason to shut it down at all since it's perfectly safe for the protests which have zero social distance and many people aren't even wearing cloth masks.

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BlackScythe0
06/30/20 10:50:28 PM
#45:


Mead posted...

... Taking it too far.

People need to work.
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#46
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Cacciato
06/30/20 11:11:51 PM
#47:


Mead posted...
Lol
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Aculo
06/30/20 11:55:40 PM
#48:


Muscles posted...
How is not voting for 1 of the 2 basic parties basic? It's like you just attack me to attack me without thinking it through
"The last third party candidate to win one or more states was George Wallace of the American Independent Party in 1968, while the most recent third party candidate to win more than 5.0% of the vote was Ross Perot, who ran as an independent and as the standard-bearer of the Reform Party in 1992 and 1996, respectively"

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Aculo
06/30/20 11:57:37 PM
#49:


ClarkDuke posted...
answer adjl, you can't avoid answering him because he refuted your point, and continue on like it wasn't said, this isn't a democracy, ok?
adjl doesn't respond when he's proven wrong. He just bows out and doesn't post, like ICOYAR, ok?

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Jen0125
07/01/20 12:00:38 AM
#50:


Is it your business what they're doing?

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