Board 8 > So can we all agree that the basement is the worst part of Mario 64?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It has the two worst levels (Dire Dire Docks and Shifting Sand Land), plus there are parts of Hazy Maze Cave that really suck and fucking MIPS.

Only upsides are Lethal Lava Land and a great Bowser level.

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But Dire Dire Docks plays while you're playing Dire Dire Docks so it can't be one of the two worst levels

Hazy Maze Cave is great

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Sorry, I'm going to have to ruin your premise by disagreeing. Shifting Sand Land is pretty great, and MIPS is memorable and makes the castle feel alive. Hazy Maze Cave is excellent, and the broad range of challenges is part of that. Are we not counting the spooky ghost zone? For some reason I usually lump that one in, too

To me, the laziest part of the game is probably that clump before the 50-star door. Wet-dry world, snowman's land, and tiny-huge island might have some interesting ideas, but reuse textures/ideas from the initial set of levels and feel a little rushed

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banananor posted...

Sorry, I'm going to have to ruin your premise by disagreeing. Shifting Sand Land is pretty great, and MIPS is memorable and makes the castle feel alive. Hazy Maze Cave is excellent, and the broad range of challenges is part of that. Are we not counting the spooky ghost zone? For some reason I usually lump that one in, too

Not sure why it should be included when it's in the courtyard.

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Centurion posted...

Not sure why it should be included when it's in the courtyard.

This.

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When I was a kid I certainly thought all the quicksand in shifting sand land was a pain in the ass but I loved getting to explore inside the pyramid. I suppose it doesnt seem like a big deal now but at the time wow the inside is a whole second map! was really exciting.

And Hazy Maze Cave has always been a combination of frustrating and fun but I loved just how vast and expansive it felt, like there were secrets within secrets I could explore for ages.

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Eh, second floor apart from Tiny Huge Island is kinda shaky tbh

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Second Floor is where I always lose steam

No debate on Shifting Sand Land being the worst level
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I actually like Shifting Sand Land but it's largely the pyramid section, it's really cool imo.

Dire Dire Docks and Wet-Dry World are worse.


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Have to agree with others that it's the second floor that's the weakest.

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Wet-Dry World and Snowman's Land are worse than any of the basement levels.

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Yeah, definitely second floor

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Top floor.

Ttc has invisible walls of death when you're speed running it.

Rr has a lengthy auto scroll section

No thanks

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Probably stupid but what is mips

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And Snowman's Land is just pretty boring.

WDW, TTM, and THI all have character in their own right. RR and TTC have tons of it.

That's why the only stage in basement that I don't really like is DDD, but in rando I love it so I guess I'd put JRB below it.

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iiaattgg posted...

Probably stupid but what is mips

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tyder21 posted...

Oh LOL

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Underleveled almost nailed everything in the opening post. Shifting Sand Land > Jolly Roger Bay and Mips is alright, but otherwise spot on.

Second floor is the next worst floor and it also has no Bowser-level or cap to unlock, but it has the best world too with Tall Tall Mountain so it's okay.

Third floor up doesn't have enough.

First floor = best floor.

True #1 is Yoshi's roof.

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HaRRicH posted...

First floor = best floor.

They really did front-load all the best worlds. To be honest I don't remember liking ANYTHING after the first Bowser stage except the other Bowser stages.

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Having recently replayed the game I agree that the first batch of levels are by far the best.

Honestly the basement levels are ok, I started zoning out on the second floor with but the third floor almost made me quit

Lengthy carpet rides? Precision platforming in 3D? I'm good.

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Tick Tock Clock is the best level in the game because it feels like a real platformer.

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In a way, I like the exterior of the castle the most. But it's also the worst part of the castle because it could have been so much more. Same with the backyard.

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I will not stand for Wet-Dry World hate.

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I came in thinking I'd agree because the levels are gimmicky and kind of annoying, but they're all still pretty fun. I'm convinced by the 2nd floor people.

Snowman's Land is boring as hell. Wet-Dry is obnoxious in a dull way. Tall Tall Mountain is a legit good level and Tiny-Huge has a fun gimmick.

Shifting Sand, Hazy Maze, and Lethal Lava are all a little obnoxious but there's a lot of good in those levels. Docks sucks but I'll take it over Wet-Dry any day.

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The game generally gets progressively worse.

First floor is great. Big Boo's Haunt, wherever you count that, is also great other than maybe dealing with the roof.

Basement is mostly good. Desert is annoying, and DDD is a water level so it's inherently awful, but I appreciate what they're doing here, and LLL and HMC are both a lot of fun once you learn where stuff is.

Second floor is bleh. Wet-Dry is the stand-out here, but Snowman's is obnoxious, TTM is awful other than the slide, and Tiny-Huge is incredibly frustrating. All of these levels have some serious camera jank, which makes them a lot harder than they need to be, too.

And then the attic, which has two really frustrating areas that require a tremendous amount of precision or you get punished badly, as well as the worst "outdoor" star -- fun in principle, but Wing Mario to the Sky tends to be extremely tedious to execute and somehow something dumb always happens and now you're outside the castle and have to run all the way back up.

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There are no bad levels in Mario 64

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Dire, Dire Docks, Bowser 2, Snowman Land, Wet-Dry Land and Tiny-Huge Island is the part of the game I generally least enjoy playing. Everything before that (yes, including the basement aside from DDD) and after that is way better. I feel this way about the original and SM64DS.

Yeah the attic is absolutely the worst.

Most of the other levels have designs that actually make them feel like areas that exist in this world. TTC and Rainbow Ride have cool concepts, but they're both just like oh yeah here's a bunch of abstract floating objects for you to jump on.

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WF > DDD> TTM > LLL > WDW > TTC > BOB > SL > BBH > RR > CCM > SSL > JRB > THI > HMC

This is my ranking based solely on how much I like the level while playing SM64 Rando.

(note: HMC has an entrance in it but is my least favorite for stars aside from that)

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3rd floor I thought was unarguably the worst floor. Does anyone like those final two worlds? They're such a pain.

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They're both great

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Tick Tock Clock and Rainbow Ride are fantastic end-game worlds.

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I remember liking the basement levels the most last time I played this game.

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BetrayedTangy posted...

Yeah the attic is absolutely the worst.

Most of the other levels have designs that actually make them feel like areas that exist in this world. TTC and Rainbow Ride have cool concepts, but they're both just like oh yeah here's a bunch of abstract floating objects for you to jump on.

That's great though

They made two whole 3D Mario games that were just entirely abstract floating object levels and they kicked ass

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Rainbow Ride's platforming is a lot of fun. The autoscrolling and slow start each life is a bummer though.

Tick Tock Clock is over-rated, but one of my favorite things to do in that level is climb all the way to the top star when the clock is completely stopped. That self-imposed challenge gets points from me.

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Those two levels can be a real pain if you fall though.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Those two levels can be a real pain if you fall though.

Welcome to what platforming has traditionally always been

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Those two levels can be a real pain if you fall though.

So can most? SM64 levels are designed vertically for the most part. Almost every single one features places where you can fall and have to backtrack.

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Yeah part of the reason I like those levels is the thrill of how close death always is.

The only thing I don't like about Dire Dire Docks is swimming to the other section for almost every star.

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DDD is small and boring. Two of the stars are basically the same thing, and another is just a retread of two stars from JRB. Board Bowser's Sub is dumb and pointless. I admit that Pole Jumping is kinda fun and unique though.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

That's great though

They made two whole 3D Mario games that were just entirely abstract floating object levels and they kicked ass

Haha funnily enough the Galaxy games are my least favorite of the big 5 3D Mario games. Probably for that reason as well! I guess it just comes down to preference.

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BetrayedTangy posted...

Haha funnily enough the Galaxy games are my least favorite of the big 5 3D Mario games. Probably for that reason as well! I guess it just comes down to preference.

Galaxy is also my least favorite, and I didn't care for Rainbow Ride. Tick Tock Clock was pretty cool though.

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Galaxy is the best, 2 especially

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I never tried Galaxy 2 as I didn't really like the first one that much.

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Second floor is probably the worst part, Snowman's Land is dull, Tiny Huge Island has a neat gimmick but I never liked the actual level, Wet Dry World is alright but nothing special, and Tall Tall Mountain is maybe the worst offender (and certainly the worst of the non-water levels) of Mario 64's biggest flaw, its fondness for just making you run through the same boring emptiness repeatedly on your way to the parts where you actually get to have fun. Down in the basement Lethal Lava Land is one of the best levels, Shifting Sand Land is mostly meh but at least has the pyramid, Hazy Maze Cave is fine and it has a Bowser level. Dire Dire Docks sucks but it's not enough to drag down everything else.

Also I can sympathize with disliking Rainbow Ride because it has some real dull parts, but Tick Tock Clock is great

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HanOfTheNekos posted...

So can most? SM64 levels are designed vertically for the most part. Almost every single one features places where you can fall and have to backtrack.

TTC and RR falls = kicked out of the level. And in TTC you can do everything right and get invisible wallD.

Top floor worst floor

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Okay so after playing through the levels again over the last 24 hours...

1. Big Boo's Haunt
2. Whomp's Fortress
3. Lethal Lava Land
4. Wet Dry World
5. Cool Cool Mountain
6. Tick Tock Clock
7. Bob-Omb Battlefield
8. Rainbow Ride
9. Hazy Maze Cave
10. Tall Tall Mountain
11. Jolly Roger Bay
12. Snowman's Land
13. Shifting Sand Land
14. Tiny Huge Island
15. Dire Dire Docks

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The Utility Man posted...

I never tried Galaxy 2 as I didn't really like the first one that much.

I mean I loved them both, but Galaxy 2 is my favorite 3D Mario and the first one is probably the lowest except maybe Land and World.

In terms of gameplay though. It really nails atmosphere imo.

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ctesjbuvf posted...

I mean I loved them both, but Galaxy 2 is my favorite 3D Mario and the first one is probably the lowest except maybe Land and World.

In terms of gameplay though. It really nails atmosphere imo.

Yea Galaxy was great at atmosphere, though if you're not really a fan of space like me then it doesn't do anything for you.

TBH, I'd put Galaxy 1 below 3D World without a second though, 3D Land I'd have to think about but I'd probably put it below that too.

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The Utility Man posted...

Yea Galaxy was great at atmosphere, though if you're not really a fan of space like me then it doesn't do anything for you.

1. how can you not be a fan of space?
2. the galaxy games have the least atmosphere in the series

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