Board 8 > darkx ranks Survivors

(+) Yeah! (+)

Gonna do this by season starting with the most recent going backwards until I get tired of it or get to seasons that I forget too much of.

Also I'm not gonna do Winners at War right away because I need to let that sink in more.

Also not gonna do Island of the Idols right away because just thinking about that season makes me feel icky and even most the people I have mostly good things to say about I still have pretty harsh criticisms of.

So we're gonna start with Edge of Extinction. Not a great season by any means but at least I don't feel like vomiting just thinking about half the cast.

Hint for Edge of Extinction #18: Lived on Edge of Extinction pre-merge.

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Just for the sake of making a guess: Keith.

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Victoria top 5 or we riot

Ideal #18: Wendy (though i anticipate she'll be ranked near the top with Reem)
Hopeful #18: Keith
Expected #18: Chris

All of the Above #18: Rick

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18. Rick Devens (4th place)
Considering that in the months and weeks leading up to Edge of Extinction's premiere many people were bracing themselves for the fact that it might be the worst season ever, I'd say it didn't turn out that bad. But it could have been a hell of a lot better without Rick Devens. Obviously this was a hand-picked Jeff Probst casting choice because he fits literally every single thing Jeff loves in a male contestant, which usually means that they're going to be tough to stomach. And right out of the gate he tried his damnedest to fill the archetype. He was a loud, obnoxious camera whore who took every opportunity to remind us that, like in his real job, he was on TV. He also immediately excluded Reem, Wendy and Keith on day 1 for having the nerve to actually be in the same place at the same time, because God forbid anybody actually talk and get to know each other on day 1. They must have been forming an alliance so Rick formed his own counter-alliance consisting of everyone else. He spent the next few episodes running around being a loud, paranoid, exclusionary jerk, culminating in blindsiding an ally for absolutely no reason. Then the tribe swap happened and he found himself with the exact same group of people, minus the obvious next vote-out in Wendy. And of course Lesu lost the next challenge because they sucked and Rick was voted out and on a normal season this is where the story would have ended. But this wasn't a normal season. It was Edge of Extinction, which meant we were going to get treated to a whole season of this guy. Thankfully he got appropriately reamed (pun intended) by the three people he voted out, but then we got to the returnee challenge and he was literally the ONE bad potential returnee, and he won it. Damn. But actually, for the first few post-merge episodes he wasn't THAT bad. He stuck it to Lesu for duping him a second time and actually played smart and when he was loud and cocky, he earned it. But then Ron and Julie started to see that he was a threat and tried to get him out, and Rick had to be all high and mighty, denouncing them as villains in the most showboating way possible, and all of a sudden, it looked from both a logical and edgical standpoint that this prick was going to win the season. Which would have been an absolute nightmare and he would have gone down as the worst winner ever from all angles. But thankfully the second returnee challenge happened, and Chris got back in, and owned Rick in the only good moment that has ever come out of the firemaking format at the final four (err, I take that back, the Tony/Sarah moment was good too). Thank God. And just to cap it all off, Rick was a bitter juror. I hate to use the term but I just wanna throw one more thing at this tool. I can't believe he got a standing ovation from the audience at the reunion. Really shows the disconnect between my opinions and the masses.

17. Was voted out post-merge

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Ah yes, I knew it'd be bad but didn't expect it'd be that bad. It is going to be a Wendy-Reem top 2. Wendy is absolutely the fucking worst.

Ideal #17: Julia
Expected #17: Wardog

Underleveled posted...

Really shows the disconnect between my opinions and the masses.

I know we've had this conversation before (years ago), but the disconnect is a lot of people enjoy villains even if they are assholes, jerks, tools, etc.

You tend to hate them because it reminds you of stuff happening earlier in your life and sometimes you just gotta enjoy the entertainment.

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Aecioo posted...

You tend to hate them because it reminds you of stuff happening earlier in your life and sometimes you just gotta enjoy the entertainment.

I never said that.

Also Tony is in my top 2 for all three of his seasons, and Jonny Fairplay is my all-time favorite (I think I can safely say that I won't take this topic that far so I can spoil that) so yes, I can definitely enjoy a good villain.

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Underleveled posted...

I never said that.

Also Tony is in my top 2 for all three of his seasons, and Jonny Fairplay is my all-time favorite (I think I can safely say that I won't take this topic that far so I can spoil that) so yes, I can definitely enjoy a good villain.

I don't think I said that. I think you can respect a good villain if they are also on top of strategy (like Tony and Fairplay). I think that if you don't respect their play they are automatically at the bottom of the list, more so than someone who is equally, or even less good gameplay wise, because of their antics, ignoring what they bring to an entertainment show entertainment wise.

If that makes sense.

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With that said though this is obv a tag because I still enjoy your survivor thoughts even if we always fundamentally disagree on one or two people every season

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17. Kelley Wentworth (10th place)
Even Wentworth fans seem to agree that her third outing was her worst (at least as a character), and I've honestly never even been a Wentworth fan. She was an early boot nobody in San Juan del Sur and she was ONLY good in Cambodia because she was one of the few people actually showing some semblance of a personality. And on paper, she is not at all deserving of being a three-time player. Really the only reason I kind of accept it is because she was so incredibly different in 31 than in 29 that I almost consider her appearance in 38 to be the second-outing of the player we saw in 31. Actually this season didn't even really need returnees at all. Joe was never going to be anything different than he was in his first two outings, Aubry didn't leave an impact in her second, and David should've just been saved for the next full All-Star season. But I digress. Wentworth came into this season with a huge chip on her shoulder because she almost won 31 after getting screwed in 29, and it showed. Her attitude was just really sour the whole time. The fun, Savage-blindsiding Kelley we saw in Cambodia was gone and now we were stuck with this little prissy who just bitched at the camera about people wanting to take her out as if it were a personal insult (because God forbid anyone view someone who came inches away from winning an All-Star season a threat) and about David and Wardog messing up her plans by being erratic, neurotic players, even though these were the people she chose to align with in the beginning of the game. She also got voted out with an idol in her pocket on a night when she knew she was in danger, proving once and for all that she really isn't THAT good of a player. She was just a total drain on a season she didn't need to be on. Hopefully this is the last we see of her, because just look at the list of people who have played four or more times: Rob, Rupert, Cirie, Ozzy, Sandra, Parvati, and Tyson. No matter how you try to twist it, Wentworth does not belong among those names.

16. Has at least one individual immunity win in their Survivor career

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Part of the problem with that line of thinking is that assholes/jerks/tools on Survivor are far too often NOT portrayed as villains. They're portrayed as lovable anti-heroes at worst, or outright heroes. So negative traits are suddenly being played as good things. Hence, Rick Devens.

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That's got to be Joe or David.
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I actually kinda loved Kelley the most on her latest outing. She wasn't trying to become a fan favorite like she did in Cambodia, she was actually herself and she was clearly just over it for most of the game. It was wonderful.

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16. David Wright (11th place)
Some kinds of characters really only work as underdogs, and David's archetype is absolutely one of those. He was compelling in MvGX because he transformed from a neurotic outsider to a legitimate threat to win the game, much like Holly in Nicaragua (who really should have been his female counterpart this season). This season, because he was in the majority alliance from the beginning, he acted like he was one of the "cool kids," but in reality, he was the least-influential member of the Lesu alliance and actually really struggled to find his place strategically, stuck between trying to be best pals with Kelley/Lauren/Wardog and being Rick's Mini Me. He voted with the majority a lot, but it was almost always just to vote with the majority and not actually what he wanted to do. He wasn't a good player, he was just a tagalong. And for someone who was once a rootable underdog, that's a pretty harsh downfall. It wasn't fun, it just pissed me off.

15. Was still in the game once Edge of Extinction was done.

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I'm guessing Lauren to continue the streak of Lesu at the bottom.

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15. Gavin Whitson (2nd place)
When I made up the list I had Gavin at 13, but upon reflecting realized that I really don't have a single positive thing to say about him, so I bumped him down two spots. He was a MOR gamebot who droned on about strategy in one of the most monotone voices the show has ever had and the most emotion he ever showed was bitching when things didn't go his way. Supposedly he was a strong social and strategic player, yet he somehow managed to lose to a guy who spent 12 days in the game proper, and before you point out that Chris made a bunch of friends on EoE, the most damning thing about it was that he couldn't even manage to get a vote from his closest ally, Victoria. In fact of the four votes he did get, two of them were clearly bitter votes against Chris. Not to mention that there is a very small but very annoying faction of the fanbase who parade him around as the true winner of the season not because they like him but because they just hate that Chris won. I know it's not his fault but it still just adds to my annoyance with him.

14. Was on Manu at some point but was never on Lesu

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Chris U spent 13 days in the main game, not 12.

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bwburke94 posted...

Chris U spent 13 days in the main game, not 12.

what ever

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this list is very not good

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fwiw i just don't get the rick devens hate

the editing of eoe? yeah, i get that. the edit absolutely sucked and did a terrible job at giving anyone other than devens and the returnees any attention

but like, the people themselves are fine. david wright is always great and even though he didn't have anywhere near as compelling an arc as mvgx, he's still lovely. wentworth wasn't as much fun as when playing from the bottom, but she's still an appealing personality

ymmvs obviously but man i don't get how, like, keith and erik are ahead of anyone

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Eric's just boring, sure. But Keith was actually complex and interesting in a season filled with overedited returnees and Rick Devens.

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Aecioo posted...

With that said though this is obv a tag because I still enjoy your survivor thoughts even if we always fundamentally disagree on one or two people every season

Thanks, I appreciate this.

Inviso posted...

Part of the problem with that line of thinking is that assholes/jerks/tools on Survivor are far too often NOT portrayed as villains. They're portrayed as lovable anti-heroes at worst, or outright heroes. So negative traits are suddenly being played as good things. Hence, Rick Devens.

I agree with this take. You'll see other villains fall into this category, while some rank high.

Naye745 posted...

wentworth wasn't as much fun as when playing from the bottom, but she's still an appealing personality

I really don't think she is other than in 31.

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14. Keith Sowell (18th place)
I can't remember who said it in the topic, but someone said, regarding Keith stalling at the initial decision to go to Edge of Extinction, "If you can't make this decision in 10 seconds it should be taken away from you," and I agree. The fact that we literally ended an episode with a cliffhanger as to whether or not Keith was going to go to Edge was all sorts of bad, especially since he just ended up going anyway (and then leaving later in the game). Which brings me to my biggest problem with Keith - he just wasn't cut out for this game. Maybe he was too young and would've done better in a few years, but when he played, he just didn't have it in him, and it made him kinda miserable to watch. He's a nice guy with a huge heart, but he didn't have nearly the killing edge necessary to do remotely well in the game, which sucks considering he outlasted Reem by one round and who knows what kind of footing she could have found if she stayed even just three more days (crazier things have happened), and found an advantage in the first returnee challenge over her (again sucking since that challenge was so close among everyone). All to have him leave after the first returnee challenge and not stick it out and ultimately amount to nothing in the grand scheme of things. Nice guy, but shouldn't have been on the show.

13. Never went to tribal council pre-merge

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Wasn't his advantage the ability to give someone else a disadvantage? Which he used on Chris, just like Reem would if she found it. So it's not like that would've saved Reem since Rick beat her anyway.
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13. Joe Anglim (14th place)
Joe seems like a really great guy but he is just not good television. At all. In all three of his seasons, his entire story has just been winning challenges and being a relatively decent guy, which is a terrific recipe for surviving the pre-merge and getting voted off ASAP post-merge, which is exactly what happened to him all three times. He's basically Ozzy without the cockiness and occasional temper tantrum, which are what make Ozzy even a remotely interesting character in the first place. But at least in his first two seasons, Joe was an underdog, so he was made to be a rootable character for the audience. This time, however, he was just there. He did his thing, got voted out, then went to go try to win a challenge to get back in and win, and he didn't. He really didn't need to be a three-timer at all, and he totally squandered his third time. Man this season picked some bad returnees. Here's a statistic for you. Across three seasons, Joe has been eligible to be voted out at 7 tribal councils, which means he's got a 57% TC survival rate. That's horrible.

12. Participated in the joint-tribal

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Mewtwo59 posted...

Wasn't his advantage the ability to give someone else a disadvantage? Which he used on Chris, just like Reem would if she found it. So it's not like that would've saved Reem since Rick beat her anyway.

I forgot exactly what it was but I thought this might have been it. I would think she would've used it on Rick though.

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12. Eric Hafemann (13th place)
Eric is pretty much my point of neutrality (or at least the closest thing to it) on my EoE ranking. He was pretty much just another in a long line of challenge dominators and a second-fiddle to more strategic players on his tribe like Ron and Gavin. He wasn't particularly witty or interesting and was just kinda there being relatively inoffensive. Even his vote out was relatively boring considering it was a big blindside. I will give him some slight props for being one of the few people to actually try and make Wendy feel liked and welcomed, as well as for one of my favorite throwbacks in Survivor history - for being the second Eric(k) to futilely chase a chicken around camp freed by a quirky outsider member of his tribe.

11. A juror who voted for Chris

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Eric was for sure the most neutral person that season. He didn't even change his appearance after arriving on ponderosa!

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11. Julia Carter (12th place)
Julia Carter's screen time on Survivor 38 was very small, and I feel bad about that for her, because she is clearly a big fan of the show and really wanted to prove herself and be a role model to young black women, and she was largely robbed of that opportunity. Even though she was in the majority right up until her devastating boot, she received very few confessionals and was pretty much presented as a secondary member of the alliance, despite clearly being a smart woman with her head in the game. She didn't let her Survivor experience go to waste though - she called out others' bullshit (including ignorant racial remarks) both in the edit and in post-game interviews, and even though she was mostly presented as a background character, I give her the benefit of the doubt and say she would have been a good, interesting, and occasionally very fun character if the edit had done her justice, so I put her very slightly on the positive side of neutral.
10. Goes by a name that starts with the letter W

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i feel like in general kama just got screwed by the edit entirely

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It does say an awful lot that the DVD cover is all Manu, despite two of the finalists being Kama. I believe this makes Kama only the second tribe in Survivor history to be completely snubbed from the cover (and if you include tribe swaps, I believe it's the only tribe that has 0 representation on a cover at all, as the other, Solana, had members from the swap on the cover).

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10. Dan "Wardog" DaSilva (9th place)
I think Wardog is one of those characters that, as time goes on, there will be a greater appreciation for. I've already noticed it starting to happen a bit on Sucks, and even on my own list, he's gone up to splitting center after being second-to-last in the immediate aftermath of the season (though admittedly that was largely because he was being a humongous dickbag on social media with not enough good on the show for me to care to put him any higher). And even still, there's plenty things that suck about him. It sucks that he was an asshole to Wendy and Reem. It sucks that he was a sexist prick who was constantly listing off all the men and saying "we're the only ones playing the game." It sucks that Lynne almost certain threw her job in the toilet to get him on the show when he really wasn't anything all that special. So, why then have I eased up on his ranking so much? In retrospect, Wardog is someone who is easy to not take too seriously. He seemed to me like someone who wanted to be a gamebot but was too unstable and easily-manipulated himself (see how easily Kelley convinced him to to, well, pretty much anything until he betrayed her) to actually be one. He really truly thought he was the new Russell Hantz, and yet everyone in his alliance spoke of him as if he were full of hot air. The result was a decently entertaining trainwreck of a player, even if he was an unpleasant person.

9. At some point, wore a buff the same color as their hair

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wardog was surprisingly, like, non-interesting to me
i don't remember being particularly inspired to have a strong opinion on him one way or the other at any point

which is interesting because he's definitely a big personality, and like everyone else on lesu actually got a complete edit

i dunno, i could see your point about growing to appreciate him as a character if i ever go back to eoe again but as it stands he was just not much of anything for me

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9. Victoria Baamonde (6th place)
So apparently Victoria actually has a huge fanbase, which I guess makes sense to me for the same reason I'm baffled by her minimal edit. She was a young, cute, intelligent girl who was not only in the majority alliance, but always had at least one hand on or within grabbing distance of the wheel. Not only that, but she was snarky and occasionally gave a pretty great confessional. But her role in the season, like most of the members of Kama, was minimal, and she basically boiled down to being a mildly-interesting character until she was unceremoniously dumped at the final 6. We didn't even get to hear why she voted against her best friend/closest ally, Gavin, in the finals, which showed just how little a shit the editors gave about her. She's fine, and I'm not against her returning someday (though I think some of the other younger women from this season would be better/more likely returnees), she doesn't get any higher than 9 because my top 5 were better characters and my 6-8 had better/more complete story arcs.

8. A woman under 40

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Still in the running:
Chris
Julie
Lauren
Aurora
Ron
Aubry
Reem
Wendy

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Honestly, WAW lowered my opinion of Wardog because it reminded me just how much of a third-rate Tony knockoff he is when I can compare him to the genuine article.
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Within the archetype, I'd say Rodney is the diet Rob, Jason and Wardog are the diet Russells, and Joe is the diet Tony. Domenick is kinda his own thing. Rocky used to be on there as well but in the latest update he got switched to the Wacky Wildcard (the Robb Z, Shane, etc.) archetype.

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Dom is more like a Diet Rob.

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I guess Rodney is like Diet Rob 1.0 and 2.0, and Domenick is Diet Rob 3.0-5.0

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i think rodney has such an absurd motormouth (as highlighted in the funny 115) that it's a disservice to him to be hastily compared to anyone else

he's not joe mena or wardog

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Tbqh, while Worlds Apart was airing, the person I was constantly comparing Rodney to was Judd Sergeant (who I feel also belongs in this category).

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8. Lauren O'Connell (5th place)
The last of Lesu to fall in this ranking, and frankly good riddance. What a terrible alliance. But Lauren ranks the highest of her tribemates by virtue of being the only one who actually displayed some growth and had a decent character arc. There are a hundred reasons from early in the season to put Lauren at the bottom with Rick/Kelley/David, basically just being a follower and princess to the more strategic and socially powerful members of her tribe. But I see Lauren as kind of like a Julia Sokolowski who came in really young, naive and impressionable, and not only matured on the island, but is probably going to carry that growth with her into the real world. As the season progressed she proved that she was a warrior in her own right, fighting through an immunity challenge to the point of passing out, and trying to spearhead some really big strategic moves, even against her own people. And like Julia, who made the mistake of sticking by Jason and playing herself into a corner, Lauren made another big mistake at the end when she burnt the hidden immunity idol she had been saving the entire game on Chris, who didn't even need it, at the final six, proving that she is still young and gullible and still has a long way to go before she can really hang with the big dogs, and screwing herself for the next round. Not only could I see Lauren returning to Survivor someday, but if she really takes to heart what she learned from the first time, and gets just a little bit lucky with the group she's in, I could see her winning.

7. Was voted out of Manu

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i think lauren and victoria would both be pretty compelling returnees with high upside potential (and a realistic possibility of getting cast again too)

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7. Aubry Bracco (15th place)
So most of you know I'm a pretty big Aubry fan. In the immediate wake of Kaoh Rong, I ranked her as my #3 favorite Survivor character of all time. Obviously that was a bit of an overreaction and I'm not even sure that today she would be my #1 for the season. But she's still awesome. She was quite a bit of a letdown in Game Changers, lasting until the finale but being mostly a background character, but here's why I feel she redeemed herself in 38 - it's not because she was suddenly some big awesome character again (although she WAS still good old Aubry we know and love, albeit toned down a bit), but because of her story. Specifically, how she completed her three-season story arc. Back in 32, she was a nervous wreck who had to slowly build her confidence over the course of the season. Come to 38, and this time she's so confident that she gets blindsided pre-merge as a major threat with an idol and an advantage in her pocket. It was such a turnaround from how she started her Survivor journey and made her being such a minor character in her return appearances worth it.

6. Made the final 3.

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i love aubry, but i'm still not sure how to gauge her eoe appearance. i was bummed out hard after that boot

that said, she has the most comprehensive edit of any of the kamas in eoe despite being the only one not to make the merge, which speaks volumes of how abysmal the edit is on eoe

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6. Chris Underwood (1st place)
A lot of people hate Chris, but not for him as a person (he seems like a great guy), or his Survivor character (he's fine that way too), but because/how he won. And that's fair I guess, but frankly I feel the opposite. I think if we HAD to have someone return from the Edge and win, thank God it was Chris, because his circumstances turned what could have been a pretty boring and typical "young, confident, good-looking, athletic man" character into actually a pretty decent and compelling one. Chris said a few times early in the season that he came in wanting/expecting to play the perfect game, but then his blindside early on simultaneously robbed him of that chance but also gave him the opportunity to play differently, which is great. A lot of people like that might have just sulked and looked at it as fuel for revenge. On Edge he formed a close friendship with Reem, someone who he probably never would have connected with in the game proper even if they had both lasted long. It was sweet and fun to watch, and I loved watching her root for him from the jury once he was back in and the Edge was officially done. We got to see him be vulnerable, something we wouldn't have gotten to see if he had stayed in the game and dominated. Being on the Edge forced him to use his social game, which would probably have been his weakest of the social/strategic/physical trifecta in the main game. Then when he finally got back in at the final 6 and had to fight his way to the end, he really pulled out the big guns and showed what a great Survivor player he can really be when given the opportunity. He showed off his skills in the "Con-Man" archetype by tricking Lauren into wasting her idol on him, then immediately snaking her. Then at the final four he gave up final immunity so he could prove himself worthy of being in the final three (not to mention personally stomp the most obnoxious camera whore the show has ever had into the ground in firemaking and prevent him from winning the game (fucking gag me if that had happened)), and for all this he was rewarded with a million dollars. Some say cheap, some say bullshit, some say it ruined the season. I say the guy took the cards that were dealt to him and made the most of them, and in the process we got a much more fun and interesting character out of one that would have otherwise been really flat.

5. Does not have blue hair.

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like most survivor fans, i don't like redemption island or edge of extinction and don't want to see ways for players to get put back into the game after being eliminated

so that said, if it's part of the game in a particular season, i'm not gonna cry if someone happens to utilise that to their advantage - and in chris's case it was genuinely a surprise; he got one of the "better" edits on the edge, but for someone who had been mostly unthought of for ~10 weeks to storm through the finale and win was by far the most unexpected winning scenario in the past 10-20 seasons, and given how much the edit tends to telegraph the winner, i really enjoyed that aspect of it!

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Naye745 posted...

like most survivor fans, i don't like redemption island or edge of extinction and don't want to see ways for players to get put back into the game after being eliminated

I honestly don't mind it as long as two things are both true: One, it is used very sparingly (like, once every 10-15 seasons), and two, whatever the twist may be (Outcasts, Redemption Island, Edge of Extinction, or something new), it ends and the merge and we don't have someone come back in the finale.

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That Bob mention came from a single person, who switched from Crystal to Bob after the Crystal boot. With the modern 6-person finales, that wouldn't have been an option.

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