Current Events > Why do people think space is finite

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DuranOfForcena posted...

good for you, it has no bearing on the question i was giving my thoughts on

Youre talking about the universe expanding

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DuranOfForcena posted...

yep

There is a disconnect here. What do you think the universe is

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DuranOfForcena posted...

so space is expanding into.... space? that doesn't really make any sense

That's because he has no idea what he's talking about on even the most basic level. I don't exactly have a PhD in astrophysics myself, but I've always been fascinated by it and tried to keep up to date on major theories and such.

The best way I can wrap my head around it personally is to think of the universe as a line of boxes. This line can be as long as you want it to be, finite or infinite is up to your personal stance. But the universe has an ability to insert another box in between any pair of boxes in that line. It can do this constantly and those new boxes become identical to the rest of the boxes. So once that new box has been inserted, the universe can then insert another box between the new one and the "old" ones on its left and right. This is constantly extending the line of boxes, but all of the "new space" is being created inside of the original space.

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Aristoph posted...

That's because he has no idea what he's talking about on even the most basic level.

Or maybe youre just putting in zero effort

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DuranOfForcena posted...

the only disconnect here is you seeming to think that everyone is talking about only the observable universe when they are not

Dont dodge.

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I'd like to know how it all started, from a very, very basic level. It's hard to comprehend "nothing" and then what we have now.

What created the atoms? What did that environment look like? I can understand things after the fact, and can understand how things progressed.

But what started it all?

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The universe is expanding in all places equally at the same time, it it not just expanding from the inside to the outside. Any talk about the observable universe is almost entirely irrelevant to the nature of the universe itself, other than the acknowledgement that it is the physical limit of our observable knowledge of the universe.

PBS Spacetime has several videos on Youtube about the nature of the expansion and edge of our universe. If anyone has any interest on the actual facts of the matter instead of baseless speculation, they're a great place to start.

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Pogo_Marimo posted...

PBS Spacetime has several videos on Youtube about the nature of the expansion and edge of our universe. If anyone has any interest on the actual facts of the matter instead of baseless speculation, they're a great place to start.

They do have some really good stuff. Though I wish they'd get a new host. I can't stand that dude's voice. >_>

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DuranOfForcena posted...

you shut your mouth, Matt O'Dowd is awesome lol

I just think he should blow his nose once in a while. It sounds like he's perpetually congested. XD

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DuranOfForcena posted...

i'm not dodging anything lolwtf, what are you on about

The fact you quoted half my post and dodged thr other half.

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Also you people seem to get very angry over this topic. Just something ive observed. You should be nicer people and not toxic.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

well, it wasn't ever actually "nothing", as far as we can tell. it was that literally the entire spacetime as we know it (and as we don't know it, as it were) and all the matter and energy within it were once compactified into an infinitely dense one-dimensional point. it wasn't a point somewhere in space, it was space. and then something happened and it expanded very, very rapidly. and it continues to expand to this day, billions of years later.

Yeah.. and that's what I want to try to comprehend. It's incomprehensible to think about. What created this "space"? What created the matter and energy? How did that form to begin with? Mind boggling to think about. I'm sure we'll never know in our lifetime. I guess I can be thankful for knowing much more than the people that came before us, in such a relatively short period of time. But I think the greater mystery will be far from ever being known.

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an explosion so powerful it's still going 100,000,000 years later.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

i didn't dodge the other half, it just had no relevance to the misconception you seemed to be having about what i was talking about, which i was attempting to clear up

It absolutely has relevance because it would have cleared up where your disconnect is. You dodged it because you dont want to admit you were talking about something different than i was.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

i already cleared up the disconnect. and i already said i was talking about something different than you were. because i was talking about the entire universe, whereas you for some reason assumed i was talking about only the observable universe, even when i gave absolutely no indication of such.

Alright. So you went off-topic when i was talking about the observable universe since post #1. Thats not my problem.
If you wernt hostile about it i wouldnt even care...

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Just because you cant come up with a counterargument doesnt mean its nonsense. Its quite bad that you are becoming hostile about this.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

correct

but that fact that it is nonsense does however mean it's nonsense

Weak shit posts like yours are nonsense. "Im not dodging". Get outta here.

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Rika_Furude posted...

Just because you cant come up with a counterargument doesnt mean its nonsense.

No, it's nonsense because you just spouted a bunch of meaningless drivel with no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim.

You don't know that space is infinite. Nobody does. In fact, nobody actually knows for certain that the observable universe isn't the entirety of existence. Kind of by the nature of it being unobservable. It doesn't simply mean "unseen" in the obvious sense of visual stimulus. It's unobservable in the sense that anything beyond that horizon literally cannot have any impact at all on us. It is so far away that nothing that happens or doesn't happen in that region is physically capable of influencing us in any way whatsoever, even on a subatomic level. Whether or not there is more "stuff" outside of our observable universe is really an irrelevant question. If it's there, we can never interact with it in any way, so what's the difference?

And you ask "why would there be only one" Big Bang as if that's some obvious truth? Well...why would there be more than one?

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Thats just a load of lazy ass bullshit. Youre missing the point of the topic. If youre doing it on purpose, well done i guess, you trolled me good.

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If there is nothing there and I cannot observe it, then for all intents and purposes does it really exist?

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We don't have any real proof that it's infinite in size, it's just that that's the most logical and simplest conclusion.

But it's not the only conclusion. Maybe it wraps back around itself via some complex geometry, or maybe it just straight-up has edges at some point beyond the scope of the observable universe.

If you stand in a field and look around you, the world looks flat, and this is the simplest conclusion you can draw. But it actually doesn't work. You have to come up with weird complicated explanations for why certain things happen certain ways, and it only starts actually looking round if you zoom waaaay out.

Space mostly looks flat too, in the absence of gravity, but who's to say if we could zoom waaaaaay out if we wouldn't find it has some more complex geometry that just never had sensitive enough instruments to detect. And hey, we already have weird phenomena that we don't have good explanations for in the form of dark matter/energy, so who knows?

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

There is probably a point far out enough that gravity has no effect. Hell, even lagrange points approximate that, but other forces still apply.

Void space with no force is the end of the universe

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Why do people think the unemployment will be infinite?

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Pointless arguing itt. We all know that the universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter.

That's as finite as it gets.