Current Events > Is being an incel a condition or a choice?

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DarthAragorn
05/23/20 1:14:06 AM
#101:


Giblet_Enjoyer posted...
most are just miserable lonely guys that have a very hard time
can confirm, is me
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The_Creep_2020
05/23/20 1:18:00 AM
#102:


Not being in a situation to throw a leg over for an extended period of time is situational and perhaps out of the control of the individual. Using this as an excuse to swan dive down the misogynistic, hate-filled Incel rabbit hole is a choice.

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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 1:28:38 AM
#103:


Evening_Dragon posted...
Eh, you say equal, but in your examples you're clearly putting them up above men.

Also, you're only using the examples of sex work? What's up with that?

my whole point is that the people shitting on guys for not being able to get laid because men can use their power/personality to do it are full of shit, women actually have a higher bargaining power when it comes to sex. If not even guys will consider uggos unless they have to, why would a woman do it?
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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 1:29:56 AM
#104:


The_Creep_2020 posted...
Not being in a situation to throw a leg over for an extended period of time is situational and perhaps out of the control of the individual. Using this as an excuse to swan dive down the misogynistic, hate-filled Incel rabbit hole is a choice.

ok, so if the meaning of incel has been changed to refer to the hate filled women haters, how do you call a person who cant have sex to save his life but that doesnt hate women?
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guesswho33
05/23/20 3:05:06 AM
#105:


Nothing is a choice, according to libs.

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008Zulu
05/23/20 3:06:47 AM
#106:


It's not listed as acknowledged medical condition, so it's a choice.

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finalbossfight
05/23/20 4:38:19 AM
#107:


008Zulu posted...
It's not listed as acknowledged medical condition, so it's a choice.
this dude thinks otherwise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPiMQyIsFqo
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EliteGuard99
05/23/20 6:27:23 AM
#108:


thronedfire2 posted...
how can it be a choice if the first word is involuntary
Because Incels convince themselves that their couple material despite their horrendous personality flaws.

So they see that they could get any girl but blame it on society or feminism rather than their shitty personality.

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TheMikh
05/23/20 10:18:33 AM
#109:


EliteGuard99 posted...
Because Incels convince themselves that their couple material despite their horrendous personality flaws.

So they see that they could get any girl but blame it on society or feminism rather than their shitty personality.
suggesting it is voluntary is literally the sexual equivalent of saying "stop being poor"

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#110
Post #110 was unavailable or deleted.
TheMikh
05/23/20 10:33:26 AM
#111:


Conflict posted...
You choose to be an incel but you don't necessarily choose to be someone who can't get sex or companionship

seems like the redefinition to a voluntary ideology is an imposed position from the outside, if you will

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TimDiamond
05/23/20 11:14:35 AM
#112:


It's a byproduct of today's culture. Women have more options than ever before, with less consequences than ever before. Tinder gives them instant access and attention from an overwhelming amount of men, contraception removes a considerable amount of risk and the sexual freedom of our culture removes the social inhibitions (fear of being ostracized or slut shamed). These are what allow women to pick, choose, experiment, and refuse. The bolded is the important part as it conflicts with the necessity to commit.

What ends up happening is that women, who have their pick of the litter, are going to go for the cream of the crop. Who wouldn't in their position? This directs attention to the top percentage of men, leaving the rest of the pool fighting for a much smaller pool of what's left. You're guaranteed to see a pool of men who are going to come out empty handed. Not feeling progress, not feeling loved, not feeling valued, is going to have a big a effect on an ego. As we have outlets for people to vent on for everyone to see, communities form and boom, the "birth" of the incel movement.

Mind you, this cultural dynamic is also dangerous for women too. While there are men who are straight up left behind, there are women who get overzealous with their options and never commit to a guy or never settle. Years will pass and their competition will get tougher and tougher as they're getting older and younger gals enter the market as direct competitors. So we're seeing an influx of single ladies in their late 30's far more than previous generations.

So to say it's a choice, I somewhat disagree. While we have the power to change outcome of our lives, it's important to acknowledge the dynamics of this world have changed considerably. It's like buying a house and gaining notable wealth. It's can be done before you hit 30 as there are opportunities all over, but it's still far, far, far more difficult for the average lad to accomplish compared to decades back.

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finalbossfight
05/23/20 11:38:37 AM
#113:


Conflict posted...
You choose to be an incel but you don't necessarily choose to be someone who can't get sex or companionship

It's 2020. They're not one in the same anymore. There are no "normal incels", it's strictly an ideological term.
No, you're wrong. Incel means "involuntary celibate" and it always has. It is not an ideological term, amd the only ones who say it is are those who are trying to paint them as evil.
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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 12:03:47 PM
#114:


Conflict posted...
You choose to be an incel but you don't necessarily choose to be someone who can't get sex or companionship

It's 2020. They're not one in the same anymore. There are no "normal incels", it's strictly an ideological term.

then people need to stop obfuscating terms to suit their agendas.

vegan used to mean not eating animal products and now some people are saying it is about consent (so there can be vegan milk or cheese if its breast milk given with consent lmao).

racism used to mean the act of hating or disliking someone just for their race and. Le some people are saying you cant have racism without power (so, a homeless dude trying to kill people of a specific race for their race is not racism because he doesnt have the power to do so, or any power at all).

now turns out that being an involuntary celibate means you hate women and adhere to a hateful ideology. So what is the term for regular people who cant get laid at all but who are otherwise normal?

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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 12:05:14 PM
#115:


finalbossfight posted...
No, you're wrong. Incel means "involuntary celibate" and it always has. It is not an ideological term, amd the only ones who say it is are those who are trying to paint them as evil.

the same people who rage about slut shaming are trying to dishonestly associate not being able to have sex with also being a woman hating violent sick person. Maybe they just hate men
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Crayon_Lover
05/23/20 12:05:54 PM
#116:


The_Bitcoin posted...
now turns out that being an involuntary celibate means you hate women and adhere to a hateful ideology. So what is the term for regular people who cant get laid at all but who are otherwise normal?
What's wrong with the term virgin or forever alone? Both of those have nothing to do with hating women

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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 12:11:13 PM
#117:


Crayon_Lover posted...
What's wrong with the term virgin or forever alone? Both of those have nothing to do with hating women

virgin means you havent had sex. Maybe youre a kid. Maybe youre a voluntary celibate (eg for religious reasons).

foreveralone means you cant have romantic relationships. You can have sex with 3 hookers a day and maybe have 20 one night stands a month but if you never experience the feeling of caring for someone and being cared about, of having a special someone holding your hand, etc, and no prospects of doing so, youre a forever alone.

many forever alones are also violent and woman hating
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Crayon_Lover
05/23/20 12:16:26 PM
#118:


The_Bitcoin posted...
foreveralone means you cant have romantic relationships. You can have sex with 3 hookers a day and maybe have 20 one night stands a month but if you never experience the feeling of caring for someone and being cared about, of having a special someone holding your hand, etc, and no prospects of doing so, youre a forever alone.

many forever alones are also violent and woman hating
Nope, that's completely false

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1_59IpaAENmI9y0cltCe9oFmjWEelHraq69GEfu-gyTY/htmlview?pli=1#gid=0

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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 12:31:53 PM
#119:


Crayon_Lover posted...
Nope, that's completely false

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1_59IpaAENmI9y0cltCe9oFmjWEelHraq69GEfu-gyTY/htmlview?pli=1#gid=0

Crayon_Lover posted...
Nope, that's completely false

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1_59IpaAENmI9y0cltCe9oFmjWEelHraq69GEfu-gyTY/htmlview?pli=1#gid=0


nice source bro, lol.

but lets assume youre right. Many of those definitions are awfully negative.

this goes back to how slut shaming is seen as sexist and evil but somehow a guy not being able to have sex is totally ok to shame and dehumanize. And the funny thing is the people who go the hardest on the latter are the ones who get mad about the former
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Crayon_Lover
05/23/20 12:40:26 PM
#120:


The_Bitcoin posted...
nice source bro, lol.

but lets assume youre right. Many of those definitions are awfully negative
It's from the forever alone subreddit so it comes straight from the source. Care to point out any of those that are violent and/or women hating?

And of course it's fucking negative, that's the whole point of the subreddit. Do you want them to say, "I've been alone my whole life but it's great!!"

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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 12:44:53 PM
#121:


Crayon_Lover posted...
It's from the forever alone subreddit so it comes straight from the source. Care to point out any of those that are violent and/or women hating?

And of course it's fucking negative, that's the whole point of the subreddit. Do you want them to say, "I've been alone my whole life but it's great!!"

so, slut shaming women = wrong
virgin shaming men = awesome

ok got it

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Crayon_Lover
05/23/20 12:55:19 PM
#122:


The_Bitcoin posted...
so, slut shaming women = wrong
virgin shaming men = awesome

ok got it
Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post. Could you give me an example the last time someone shamed you for being a virgin?

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JoeBurrow
05/23/20 12:55:51 PM
#123:


Crayon_Lover posted...
Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post. Could you give me an example the last time someone shamed you for being a virgin?
is this your first day on the internet
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Crayon_Lover
05/23/20 1:00:00 PM
#124:


JoeBurrow posted...
is this your first day on the internet
928th actually

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EliteGuard99
05/23/20 1:05:05 PM
#125:


TheMikh posted...
suggesting it is voluntary is literally the sexual equivalent of saying "stop being poor"
Bad analogy. There is no crooked system in place that keeps you from getting laid.

Only Incels believe there is.

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onedarksoul
05/23/20 1:15:24 PM
#126:


I thought this topic was going to be more interesting. Ah well.

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bobaban
05/23/20 1:28:03 PM
#127:


TimDiamond posted...
It's a byproduct of today's culture. Women have more options than ever before, with less consequences than ever before. Tinder gives them instant access and attention from an overwhelming amount of men, contraception removes a considerable amount of risk and the sexual freedom of our culture removes the social inhibitions (fear of being ostracized or slut shamed). These are what allow women to pick, choose, experiment, and refuse. The bolded is the important part as it conflicts with the necessity to commit.

What ends up happening is that women, who have their pick of the litter, are going to go for the cream of the crop. Who wouldn't in their position? This directs attention to the top percentage of men, leaving the rest of the pool fighting for a much smaller pool of what's left. You're guaranteed to see a pool of men who are going to come out empty handed. Not feeling progress, not feeling loved, not feeling valued, is going to have a big a effect on an ego. As we have outlets for people to vent on for everyone to see, communities form and boom, the "birth" of the incel movement.

Mind you, this cultural dynamic is also dangerous for women too. While there are men who are straight up left behind, there are women who get overzealous with their options and never commit to a guy or never settle. Years will pass and their competition will get tougher and tougher as they're getting older and younger gals enter the market as direct competitors. So we're seeing an influx of single ladies in their late 30's far more than previous generations.

So to say it's a choice, I somewhat disagree. While we have the power to change outcome of our lives, it's important to acknowledge the dynamics of this world have changed considerably. It's like buying a house and gaining notable wealth. It's can be done before you hit 30 as there are opportunities all over, but it's still far, far, far more difficult for the average lad to accomplish compared to decades back.


is every human owed love and affection? No. Incel is a byproduct of the special snowflake mentality
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finalbossfight
05/23/20 1:50:44 PM
#128:


EliteGuard99 posted...
Bad analogy. There is no crooked system in place that keeps you from getting laid.

Only Incels believe there is.
Incorrect. Many incels live in countries where prostitution is illegal so they are not allowed to pay for sex. Thus incels need to attract a woman, and many are too unnattractive to do so.
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finalbossfight
05/23/20 1:52:57 PM
#129:


bobaban posted...
is every human owed love and affection? No. Incel is a byproduct of the special snowflake mentality
Actually, incels do acknowledge that they are not given sex and love. They simply want sex and love. In fact, it doesn't make sense for incels to think systems will guarantee that for them because they haven't gotten it their whole life.
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Lorenzo_2003
05/23/20 2:55:07 PM
#130:


Crayon_Lover posted...
Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post. Could you give me an example the last time someone shamed you for being a virgin?

Ehh, this is anecdotal, but Ive seen it a bunch on several feminist-leaning boards. The go-to insult for any male who isnt an ally or simply disagrees with certain claims is that no woman ever has or ever will want to have sex with that male. Keep in mind, these are often assumptions because its not always an actual incel. But it is absolutely a popular insult, which is odd when juxtaposed with their ire towards slut shaming.

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TimDiamond
05/23/20 3:06:44 PM
#131:


bobaban posted...
is every human owed love and affection? No. Incel is a byproduct of the special snowflake mentality

If too many males feel they can't receive love and affection, you'll have a case of guys who withdraw from society or worse, lash back against society. For a society to thrive, everyone has to have a vested interests in its collective future. The incel movement's growth is a sign of a weakening society and it hasn't stopped and won't stop anytime soon. It has to be addressed and telling them a variant of "Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" is not a solution.

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Prismsblade
05/23/20 3:10:08 PM
#132:


In my opinion....no. Many of them were raised with societal expectations they couldnt achieve due either to physical, mental or external causes. Didnt know what else to do with their life without a woman, nor would anyone teach them and they snapped.

So Incels are pretty much the culmination of society's failure to helping man change and adapt along with woman the past century.


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#133
Post #133 was unavailable or deleted.
bobaban
05/23/20 3:44:19 PM
#134:


finalbossfight posted...
Actually, incels do acknowledge that they are not given sex and love. They simply want sex and love. In fact, it doesn't make sense for incels to think systems will guarantee that for them because they haven't gotten it their whole life.

So I And many others want a trillion dollars. Do we make a community out of it? If its outside the realm of possibility, whats the purpose of dwelling on it.

You make it sound like incels are poor creatures or something, Ive seen the boards and its a lot of rope jokes, Stacy/chad this and that, and just general self hate. It is a toxic label to affix yourself to
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bobaban
05/23/20 3:47:18 PM
#135:


TimDiamond posted...
If too many males feel they can't receive love and affection, you'll have a case of guys who withdraw from society or worse, lash back against society. For a society to thrive, everyone has to have a vested interests in its collective future. The incel movement's growth is a sign of a weakening society and it hasn't stopped and won't stop anytime soon. It has to be addressed and telling them a variant of "Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" is not a solution.


so what is the solution? At least the bootstrap solution gives some power to choices you can make. I agree that it doesnt work on a mass scale though.
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finalbossfight
05/23/20 4:05:55 PM
#136:


bobaban posted...
So I And many others want a trillion dollars. Do we make a community out of it? If its outside the realm of possibility, whats the purpose of dwelling on it.

You make it sound like incels are poor creatures or something, Ive seen the boards and its a lot of rope jokes, Stacy/chad this and that, and just general self hate. It is a toxic label to affix yourself to
Incels have a right to make a community if they want to. That's their right.

Sex and love are normal things that most experience, making a trillion dollars is not. There are forums with people who have autism, yet autism has no cure, so going by your logic, no forums for people with autism should exist?
Conflict posted...
There is no term for it. And there doesn't need to be.

Also, those people are wrong too regarding racism and veganism as well. The people who say that about racism don't want to entertain the idea that you can be racist against white people, and they're too stupid to just specify institutional racism.

Incel is another one of those cases where definitions change. And you can largely thank the crazed misogynists that call themselves incels for that reason. If you're a normal person who's struggling, you're not an incel, and you shouldn't want to call yourself one anyway. Not everything needs a term
You say "not everything needs a term". yet you feel the need to use the term "incel" to describe someone who is a terrorist / misogynist. Kinda ironic huh?

The truth is, it's about hijacking a term with a pre-existing definition and changing that definition in order to justify hatred of a certain group.
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The_Bitcoin
05/23/20 4:21:09 PM
#137:


Conflict posted...
There is no term for it. And there doesn't need to be.

Also, those people are wrong too regarding racism and veganism as well. The people who say that about racism don't want to entertain the idea that you can be racist against white people, and they're too stupid to just specify institutional racism.

Incel is another one of those cases where definitions change. And you can largely thank the crazed misogynists that call themselves incels for that reason. If you're a normal person who's struggling, you're not an incel, and you shouldn't want to call yourself one anyway. Not everything needs a term

so basically every guy who cant have sex because he is too awkward or has too high standards shall be stigmatized and victimized because there is not a term for you and you will get lumped with the psychos. Thank the psycho men, man.

curious how do you feel about slut shaming? Is it ok to lump together clean Instagram fitness models and regular girls who enjoy their sexuality with STD ridden girls who charge for money, dig for gold and destroy marriages? I mean the former can thank the latter for it, right? There doesnt have to be a term for everything, right?

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#138
Post #138 was unavailable or deleted.
EliteGuard99
05/23/20 4:37:02 PM
#139:


finalbossfight posted...
Incorrect. Many incels live in countries where prostitution is illegal so they are not allowed to pay for sex. Thus incels need to attract a woman, and many are too unnattractive to do so.
It's not their looks that keep them from attracting women, it's their terrible personalities.

They don't see women as people so much as entitled property.

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CalypsoDoom
05/23/20 4:41:48 PM
#140:


It is a choice to be an entitled piece of shit with an outrageous victim complex.

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Dark_SilverX
05/23/20 5:05:34 PM
#141:


Hereditarily created. Passed down from the parents.

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bobaban
05/23/20 5:21:40 PM
#142:


finalbossfight posted...
Incels have a right to make a community if they want to. That's their right.

Actually an incel man in Canada who murdered a Massage parlour woman with a machete was charged as a terrorist. So incels soon will be considered terrorists by the law.
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Beveren_Rabbit
05/23/20 5:24:42 PM
#143:


how do people know what incels want and believe?

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finalbossfight
05/23/20 6:18:58 PM
#144:


EliteGuard99 posted...
It's not their looks that keep them from attracting women, it's their terrible personalities.

They don't see women as people so much as entitled property.
You have got to be kidding me. So looks are irrelevant? What about all those cases of attractove men who abuse their girlfriends? They had terrible personalities and yet that never stopped them from getting laid.
CalypsoDoom posted...
It is a choice to be an entitled piece of shit with an outrageous victim complex.
Once again, you used the strawman of "entitlement". Incels WANT sex, they do not claim to be entitled. They know they aren't entitled because if they were entitled, they would actually be getting sex.
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finalbossfight
05/23/20 6:20:25 PM
#145:


bobaban posted...
Actually an incel man in Canada who murdered a Massage parlour woman with a machete was charged as a terrorist. So incels soon will be considered terrorists by the law.
Yes, and it's ridiculous because every dude who can't get laid is an incel because some dude killed someone. That is why it's ridiculous to say something "involuntary" is a choice.

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#146
Post #146 was unavailable or deleted.
finalbossfight
05/23/20 7:33:17 PM
#147:


Conflict posted...
Lol

You still don't get it. It's like arguing with Zikten all over again
No, I do get it. You are trying to demonize men complaining on the internet about not getting sex because of their looks and calling them entitled as an excuse to paint them as "evil"
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ThisGuyAreSick
05/23/20 7:34:13 PM
#148:


finalbossfight posted...

of course lol. but just because someone goes on a mass murder ans claims to be "incel" does not mean that everyone who is "incel" is a mass murderer, are they?


they certainly thought about it
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finalbossfight
05/23/20 7:38:18 PM
#149:


ThisGuyAreSick posted...
they certainly thought about it
wrong, absolutely zero proof that guys who can't get laid all think of going on murder rampages
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ThisGuyAreSick
05/23/20 7:41:54 PM
#150:


finalbossfight posted...

wrong, absolutely zero proof that guys who can't get laid all think of going on murder rampages


thats not what an incel is
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