Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 297: Mnuchin's Oddysee

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1263937751872868353?s=21

jfc, it's not like this is a backwoods bumfuck nowhere county

This is a county containing one of the ten largest cities in the whole fucking country.

I'm actually impressed by the sheer idiocy

StealThisSheen posted...

If that was true, they would have just let Bernie win the primary and then not voted in the general.

But then they can't blame progressives for not showing up.

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If progressives showed up, they couldn't blame moderates for all the evils of the world, after they robbed America of a Saint Sanders presidency.

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If moderate Democrats and leftists weren't so focused on blaming people, they would be Republicans....

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red sox 777 posted...

If moderate Democrats and leftists weren't so focused on blaming people, they would be Republicans....

Republicans blame people all the time! They still blame Obama!

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Ashethan posted...

Republicans blame people all the time! They still blame Obama!

Because that's politically advantageous. Not because they actually believe it's his fault.

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I mean, the polls have Biden with a pretty decent lead. Not enough to get complacent, but at even money you'd bet on Biden right now.

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Wow you really just made sure to wait until you felt the conversation had shifted enough that you could post without having to comment on the Biden gaff huh.

what a bizarre world we live in where posting the vile shit the administration is doing (and yes, its gaffes on occasion) is monotonous and should be broken up if not eliminated as "not news"

but we all better get the fuck on the record about every dumb thing biden says

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who's objecting to posting about dumb shit trump says and does?

i, for one, heartily applaud it!

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I mean, the polls have Biden with a pretty decent lead. Not enough to get complacent, but at even money you'd bet on Biden right now.

You can get Biden at 47 cents to win $1 on PredictIt.

Edit: 47 cents to receive $1 back including your initial investment. So 47 cents to win 53 cents.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

who's objecting to posting about dumb shit trump says and does?

i, for one, heartily applaud it!

Every now and then you get a handful of people complaining that this topic is "posting twitter stuff" and "monotonous" and it is 95% of the time directed at LotM (even though I feel like if it were really about that I'd get a lot more fire directed my way or that the same people saying it are fine doing the same kind of posting just directed at Biden, etc.) to the point where a few months(?) ago he said he'd stop if it was really bothering people and a bunch of people chimed in to say actually they appreciated it.

Really it was part of a broader point that I've been irritated at for quite some time in this topic. LotM takes a shitload of undeserved hostility in this topic. I disagree with him on quite a bit on policy but am often taking his side simply because the stuff that gets thrown at him is insane. I am honestly surprised the toxicity of some of it hasn't driven him away.

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https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1263833072916738048?s=19

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xp1337 posted...

Every now and then you get a handful of people complaining that this topic is "posting twitter stuff" and "monotonous" and it is 95% of the time directed at LotM (even though I feel like if it were really about that I'd get a lot more fire directed my way or that the same people saying it are fine doing the same kind of posting just directed at Biden, etc.) to the point where a few months(?) ago he said he'd stop if it was really bothering people and a bunch of people chimed in to say actually they appreciated it.

Really it was part of a broader point that I've been irritated at for quite some time in this topic. LotM takes a shitload of undeserved hostility in this topic. I disagree with him on quite a bit on policy but am often taking his side simply because the stuff that gets thrown at him is insane. I am honestly surprised the toxicity of some of it hasn't driven him away.

You know what irritates me? Being against universal health care.

And a dozen other important things.


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xp1337 posted...

Really it was part of a broader point that I've been irritated at for quite some time in this topic. LotM takes a shitload of undeserved hostility in this topic. I disagree with him on quite a bit on policy but am often taking his side simply because the stuff that gets thrown at him is insane. I am honestly surprised the toxicity of some of it hasn't driven him away.

oh yeah, this i can agree with.

the first time in this topic series i had any kind of issue with LotM was when said that "well what biden is accused of isn't technically rape" thing, while in the past he has said "geez can we stop this semantic argument about whether roy moore is technically a pedophile or an ephebophile all that matters is that he's a rapist." i think semantic arguments are fine and i don't care if LotM wants to have them, but if he only selectively cares about them when it's biden who's getting attacked, that's just hypocritical. other than that, i have absolutely no problems with the guy.

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You really don't think the issue with LotM is that whenever Biden does something inarguably stupid he just shuts up and ignores it until enough times has passed that he doesn't have to talk about it anymore, in the exact same way many of the republican posters in this topic used to do with Trump?

The one time he actually tried to defend Biden potentially doing something awful in a meaningful way, it was with "technically not rape". Which, considering the deserved backlash he got for that, may be why he has just decided to claim up most of the time.

TheRock1525 posted...

https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1263833072916738048?s=19

I refer back to my post about a writer saying Biden couldnt literally be eating babies and Id vote for him:

It sure is an interesting phenomenon seeing the Democratic response to cultist support of a goobrained geriatric serial-groper is to rally unwaveringly behind a goobrained geriatric serial-groper.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

You really don't think the issue with LotM is that whenever Biden does something inarguably stupid he just shuts up and ignores it until enough times has passed that he doesn't have to talk about it anymore, in the exact same way many of the republican posters in this topic used to do with Trump?

eh, i don't think it's good but i don't mind it that much.

maybe i'm biased because of muffin ignoring like 90% of my arguments back in the days of the freedom topic, though. compared to that, i can handle LotM just fine!


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Yeah but one goober is less likely to continue setting the country on fire so they're fine with it.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

You know what irritates me? Being against universal health care.

And a dozen other important things.

Yes, and I disagree with LotM on M4A! However, LotM being for a public option does not mean he's out there trying to kill people which was the incoming fire he was taking from multiple people back then.

There's been a complete obliteration of nuance on a slew of issues where LotM's reasoning isn't necessarily unreasonable (Take the potential short-term disruption to the healthcare system) and warrants some honest discussion and jumps straight past it to "you're wrong and advocated for a system that will lead to more deaths ergo you're advocating for people to die."

I think our healthcare system is an absolute dumpster fire and that COVID-19 has further exposed that (tying healthcare to employment sure looks great when unemployment numbers surge towards Great Depression levels, huh) but I think many of LotM's concerns when pressed on why he doesn't support M4A are reasonable ones. Unfortunately since I am not a healthcare expert I lack the qualifications and knowledge to adequately have an informed debate with him to properly address those concerns so I mostly lodge my broader systemic points about the flaws in the current system because I'm not prepped for much more than that kind of surface level discussion.

But those debates were jumping straight past that to ascribing a kind of amoral, if not malicious, character to LotM that just straight up isn't consistent with what he's said. That kind of moustache-twirling shit is more in line with what the actual fucking administration is doing with trying to get the ACA repealed with no plans whatsoever for the millions of people they're going to screw over in doing so. LotM's concerns are, even if you believe (as I do) leading him to a bad conclusion, still clearly trying to reach a policy end that helps the most people and blazing through all that nuance is... super toxic IMO.

It's honestly part of a broader pattern (as in outside this topic) where I think there's a vocal section of Sanders supporters (and this isn't actually meant as some callout, I don't mean all Sanders supporters and I don't mean "the left" because the pragmatic faction has not gone here) are more interested in throwing shit at Biden than they are at at the GOP and its activities. I'm not fully certain how to explain it either, the closest I've come to reading something that seemed to encapsulate it was portraying it as a function of purity v pragmatism where some people view support/voting for a candidate as a matter of personal integrity vs those who see it merely as a tool to achieve the least worst outcome.

idk I've just been so tired of this stuff over the past... god how long has it been? 12 months?

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Wow you really just made sure to wait until you felt the conversation had shifted enough that you could post without having to comment on the Biden gaff huh.

It's bad but like 0th percentile on the list of "stuff I give a shit about in this election"

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that's some fate-verse reversal of causality going on there

that particular discussion regarding the nature of allegations was fairly recent all things considered - like fuck has that topic even purged yet? like literally how many instances of "LotM dodging Biden news" have there actually been since that that it could be used by you as a rationale as for why he now has some pattern of it?

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xp1337 posted...

I think our healthcare system is an absolute dumpster fire and that COVID-19 has further exposed that (tying healthcare to employment sure looks great when unemployment numbers surge towards Great Depression levels, huh) but I think many of LotM's concerns when pressed on why he doesn't support M4A are reasonable ones. Unfortunately since I am not a healthcare expert I lack the qualifications and knowledge to adequately have an informed debate with him to properly address those concerns so I mostly lodge my broader systemic points about the flaws in the current system because I'm not prepped for much more than that kind of surface level discussion.

There is a fallacy spread around that people that become unemployed are losing access to health care due to the ACA.

This is false, the moment they lose employer coverage they are immediately eligible for a special enrollment via the marketplaces put in place by the ACA.

Any necessary services while applying are able to be covered retroactively as well.

The ACA is literally the reason these people have continued access to health care instead of being immediately thrown to the curb or forced into an expensive(like, 4x the cost) COBRA plan.

The ACA is extremely important right now in making sure people have continued access to health care. It is not an obstacle or a villain like so many are attempting to make it out to be. Could it be better? Yeah. But to vilify it like it was some horrible thing is wrong.

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Yeah, the ACA was watered down significantly and IMO unnecessarily but it's still leagues better than the pre-ACA landscape and is helping millions of people.

You just have to view it as a step on the path to UHC/something that isn't trash, not the endpoint. I wish we had taken a bigger step back then, and I think that's a reasonable grievance (even if some political dialogue around it is often wrong re: Senate math) to have but it has undeniably helped millions and that shouldn't be forgotten.

Edit: If you mean to say you think I was implying that the ACA is causing loss of insurance, hell no. It's a fragile safety net in this situation and should bring even sharper attention (really this should be like message #2 after COVID-19 at this point) that the Trump administration and GOP are literally trying to cut that safety net down in court as we speak. That our current healthcare system is reliant on our increasingly partisan courts to not do something ridiculous (which they have been doing with increasing frequency and brazenness !) isn't a ringing endorsement for the health (pardon the pun) of the system overall.

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I feel like I defend Biden pretty often here tbqh. Like yesterday I defended him on the insinuation that he was anti-Palestinian.

When it's something like his stupid joke to Charlamagne where I agree that it was bad but was a gaffe and he probably didn't mean it like people are implying, I have to ask myself if I even want to bother. I didn't set out to be this board's Biden defense force; I'm just a pretty argumentative person and my views aren't being represented by much of anyone else here.

Also I appreciate the defense, xp; I think you've always done a really great job of disagreeing in these topics without being combative, and I think it contributes a lot.

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My problem comes with the fact that I am forced to view issues as a zero sum game because that is the political reality of our country, and if you do not see it is not my fault that you are ignorant.

The democratic and republican party will use any language required to stall and not get things done unless very specifically required. It may seem harsh or mean but your type of attitude is the reason why we don't have the things other countries have. Because you accept the stall from people like LotM with their 'reasonable' concerns that if you look at the fact that no country that ever went to universal health care ever went back, that we are the mockery of the civilized world, etc, would matter in the face of his concerns. Now if LotM would say "Bernie's very specific plan is not great, but hold on we need to do a lot more than what Biden is doing let me make that my # 1 rallying point while still supporting Biden" that's one thing, but LotM like so many others favors gradual change that kills people. It just does. That's the cost of doing healthcare as we are, human lives. Now of course I am intensely emotional about this issue, my mother died due to not being able to afford health care until very, very late in life so I am impacted by this debate more than some people might be, and also I have never been afraid to be brutally honest in my takes to the point of being very hostile if that was what was in my heart, so I can get that but also there is a lot of valid reasons why I have so much rage churning inside of me.

You accept the stall. You will hate to hear it. You will call some on the left unreasonable. You will say a thousand things, but ultimately you just accept it because civility is more important to you than people dying. It just is. You will hate that observation. I am not stupid, I am not unhinged, and I am not uninformed on any issue we could discuss in this topic. I am in fact paid to write for a news program about the realities of our political landscape, so even if you think I potentially do my job poorly it is still my job to know about the world around us.

My problem with LotM's constant twitter feed (I don't know if this is still the case, I just remember being the one to complain about it) is the democratic party does a lot to harm our country as well, things that are only solved by listening to the left and of course they don't want to. Campaign finance reform and making voting required and a holiday for example would probably fundamentally change politics in this country forever. It is a fact that it is so, so much harder for a young, poor person to vote than it is an older, wealthier person. That's an issue. We should resolve it. I never mean to absolve Trump and his band of villains of any of their well deserved scorn, but if you scorch only one half of the coin you are left with the endless waltz of death and despair that we have been drowning in since Reagan was sworn in.

LotM pisses me off because I respect his intelligence enough to be insulted that he holds the views he holds. Maybe I shouldn't be that way. I'll consider it when I visit my mother's grave next month.

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I didn't get involved or comment on your defense of Biden's Palestine notes on the website because it literally doesn't matter. As I have consistently stated, nothing on a campaign website matters at all, bad or good. It may as well not exist.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

and making voting required and a holiday

compulsory voting brings with it a huge slew of problems.

Voting should be accessible but forcing people to vote when they could choose to not give a shit ends up being particularly exploitable.

Voting should be encouraged, expandable, and accessible, but not compulsory.

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Compulsory voting I would have to think on. I know it's been done elsewhere (...Australia? New Zealand? Not positive off the top of my head) and I think it's gone fine there so in theory I think it's plausible but on the list of my "voting/election reforms we need" it's definitely not near the top.

I'd be open to it though again I'd have to do more thinking and looking into it.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

but if you scorch only one half of the coin you are left with the endless waltz of death and despair that we have been drowning in since Reagan was sworn in.

"since Reagan", huh?

Wow, damn, I didn't know America's problems were so recent.

This is a country that has built into its very institutions undemocratic structures steeped in racism (like literally given how much of the Conventional Constitution was structured around appeasing the ability of the South to maintain slavery and entrench their political power from any effort to rectify it from the rest of the nation) continuing through the addition of states having to be "fair and balanced" to continue that until finally the South threw a fit when they tried to play brinksmanship and threatened the rest of the country with revolt if they elected a candidate they did not like.

Then they lost and murdered that president, one who was really only forced into realizing their own "worst fears" by their own rebellion, and managed to have one who fucking sabotaged Reconstruction to the point where you can plausibly argue there hasn't been a truly democratic tradition in the South for the breadth of this country's entire history: Slavery, Women's Suffrage (okay this one is the whole country not just the South), to Jim Crow, to the voter suppression and gerrymandering of the GOP that continues there to this day. The North is marginally better in this regard but make no mistake many of those same issues apply there as well.

These are some of the most fundamental obstacles in the way of actual progress in this country. Didn't start with Trump, didn't start with Reagan, didn't even start with the Southern Strategy. They were built into the very founding of the country. So much of what needs to be changed simply can not because the political reality is entirely infeasible: We can't even get equal rights for women guaranteed as a Constitutional Amendment in 2020. That is your opponent, one who won't even take the easiest PR lay-up of all time.

Yes, we need campaign finance reform, yes we need to do obvious things like vote-by-mail, expand early voting, and make Election Day a holiday. But more than that we need a plausible path to enact these policies. You can't do it by fiat. You have the institutions of this country at the highest levels actively hostile to it in SCOTUS. So how do you get it done? This has always been one of my bigger pet peeves with Sanders's message - he has not had a satisfactory answer. "Millions of people rising up in a political revolution!" are you serious? The GOP isn't going to cow to popular pressure. They maintain power right now without majority support. They oppose policy supported by 90% of the country and a majority of their own party. Have them voted out? Okay, we're starting to get somewhere now but hands up does anyone really think in this parallel timeline where Sanders wins (2016 or 2020, I don't care) you're just going to see Dem flips in Utah, West Virginia, Mississippi? No? So now what do we do when Sanders is up there and either can't get things passed over the GOP in Congress - or can, but has it eviscerated by a Supreme Court that has had a seat stolen by the GOP? If this unmotivated base of people somehow materialized only now for Sanders but couldn't be bothered to try and improve this country's lot before him are we to believe they're staying fired up and active after the system beats down his policies? Because I'm sorry no one person is going to fix this stuff we've got problems going back 250+ years we're still chipping away at. We've made progress sure, but there's a hell of a ways still to go. No president is going to just fix this shit in 4-8 years.

There's definitely some value to the bully pulpit of the presidency here, don't get me wrong, however much damage Trump may be doing to it these past 4 years. I'm not discounting that. And you can some good things done from there using it. I can't completely discount a top-down approach like this because we've seen it have results in Civil Rights at times. We've also seen it go the other way of course. It's the very nature of the pendulum cycle of politics where even if we get some progressive wave incoming, the electorate will just go, "Well, guess we oughta give the Republicans a shot again" in a matter of years regardless of whatever accomplishes were made under Democrats/progressives and no matter what disasters were created by Republicans. The reverse is true too, of course, but this is under its most significant fire yet as the Republican party more openly embraces its slide into authoritarianism as the path to winning elections democratically slips further and further from their reach. Voter suppression, voter intimidation, looking for and exploiting any loophole they can even as it very clearly violates any spirit to democratic rule.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

You accept the stall. You will hate to hear it. You will call some on the left unreasonable. You will say a thousand things, but ultimately you just accept it because civility is more important to you than people dying. It just is. You will hate that observation. I am not stupid, I am not unhinged, and I am not uninformed on any issue we could discuss in this topic. I am in fact paid to write for a news program about the realities of our political landscape, so even if you think I potentially do my job poorly it is still my job to know about the world around us.

Oh, get out with this nonsense. You disagree with my conclusion on what that path is, fine, whatever, I don't care. But if you think for one fucking second you have any fucking ability and insight to analyze and observe my beliefs from our limited interactions then you need to get over yourself.

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I agree with xp1337 about division being baked into the DNA of the United States. The reason that American politics seemed so stable for so long was because a huge portion of the populace was politically restrained for 100 years due to the Civil War.

Some people came to the colonies as they saw it as an opportunity for religious and other freedoms, while others just saw it as a way to make a quick buck for hemselves, **** everyone else, and I don't think this has ever been truly reconciled.

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Of course I have the ability to understand you. People aren't that complicated, and neither are you. "You will hate that observation."

Person who started saying "oh man poor LotM"

ends with:

" But if you think for one fucking second you have any fucking ability and insight to analyze and observe my beliefs from our limited interactions then you need to get over yourself."

Look at me I am angry someone called me out, I will use curse words and tell them to get out.

re: America, Reagan was the start of the great economic decline of the American working class (or close to it) after unions had done a good job of getting a lot of power earlier in the century, that is a complicated and nuanced discussion that I don't care to have with people in this topic tbh

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I am always mystified by how LOTM has the beliefs that he has. It's like a mix of neocon propaganda and Trump hatred.

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As for the rest I understand the history of the country but I will say this hot take again: blaming voters for not voting in the USA is the biggest case of victim blaming I have ever seen. Culturally, educationally, and with our laws we make it brutally hard to get involved in our process.

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Republicans come up with an alternative to the unemployment boost yet?

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Corrik7 posted...

Republicans come up with an alternative to the unemployment boost yet?

The usual

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Look at me I am angry someone called me out, I will use curse words and tell them to get out.

I wasn't telling you to literally get out of the topic. I was telling you to stuff that kind of talk.

I took this out of my response because I thought I was getting too emotionally charged but if you're seriously going to come in here and try to condescendingly taunt at me out of some unearned sense of moral superiority, I guess I'll bring it back because I am over my emotional limit now and while I can already feel the regret surging within me that had prompted me to remove it in the first place for so many reasons I just don't care anymore.

I have suffered from depression and anxiety for over half my life. I have had no hope in my life since I was in middle school. I have watched the world, in my view, head down a path in which I think it's honestly inevitable that we'll see an unprecedented humanitarian crisis in the not too distant future. Climate change the major actor there of course, but politically it's fallen off a damn cliff since 2016 as we see other autocrats emulate Trump around the world and erode democratic norms.

Given all that it would be all too easy for me to just give up because "Fuck it. Why bother?" But I have tried my best to refuse that selfish impulse all these years and try to figure out what I think is the best path forward for everyone else, everyone else who isn't as fundamentally broken as I am, who actually have hope and reason and meaning in their lives. Because that's still something I can do here. It might be the only act of significance, as small as it may ultimately be, that I can do. So that's why I try to figure out what I think that path is and how to best achieve it.

So to hear you state with this smug sense of certainty that "civility is more important to you than people dying. It just is" just makes me see red. I almost loop around to laughter because if I were treated as such a sentiment played straight deserved it would still be dwarfed by my own disgust with myself. I don't know what has caused you to be possessed of this surety but you're utterly wrong. I don't think your approach to achieving what I assume are many shared policy goals is the best way to get there. I don't even think it's the shortest but that's a slightly different argument.

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xp1337 posted...

I wasn't telling you to literally get out of the topic.

I was.

Get out. This topic has coronavirus.

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https://www.rawstory.com/2020/05/while-pushing-for-corporate-legal-immunity-mitch-mcconnell-vows-to-block-
extension-of-boosted-unemployment-benefits/amp/

A reduction to 300-400 a week wouldn't be the worst thing to happen in the world.

I just can't see how Republicans win re-election if they get rid of the boost.

Though, anecdotally, my two cousins (one is a bartender in North Carolina and one in PA where I live). I was drinking with them some two nights ago. And my cousin from PA was talking about how much money he had and shit, and I was like you know after July you aren't gonna have that right unless it is extended? He couldn't seem to process that. Kept saying they would extend it.

Then my other cousin from North Carolina got a text from his boss saying they are reopening Friday (today) and he needed to know if he could come to work. My cousin was like fuck that I ain't going back to work for $200 a week when I'm making way more than that now. The boss texted back not even like 10 minutes later and was like, "I'll give you to 10pm to respond, remember if you refuse to come back you are going to lose your unemployment.". My cousin was so upset that he ended up leaving and not even hanging out with us more than 40 minutes. Says he still isn't going back to work though.

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I have a lot of things to say to that in regard to my own struggles with mental health, my hospital stays due to mental health, the trauma that I have yet to fully recover from of watching my mother's decline in health, how we tend to judge ourselves by intent but others by their actions and so forth, but given everything you revealed there it is probably not appropriate for me to continue this discussion. If you want to think of me whatever, then that's probably better than continuing this discussion. I don't find it out of bounds that you said so, and am grateful that you let me know that's the mindset so I knew not to agitate you further.

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Sounds like he hates his job
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don't have any faith on a new stimulus to actually happen.

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red13n posted...

don't have any faith on a new stimulus to actually happen.

November 2nd 2020 surprise Trump fun bucks.

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Fuck, this entire election process has destroyed us.

Remember that when it was clear Bernie was out, Chris' primary message was "Fight for Biden's win, the most important thing is that the Democrat's take it."

And I mean I'm not saying I disagree with his complete change in attitude, it's just that it's amazing it happened.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Fuck, this entire election process has destroyed us.

Remember that when it was clear Bernie was out, Chris' primary message was "Fight for Biden's win, the most important thing is that the Democrat's take it."

And I mean I'm not saying I disagree with his complete change in attitude, it's just that it's amazing it happened.

Oh, I am still doing that by the way! I literally help reach tens of thousands of people every week and that is partially the message. My own private thoughts have nothing to do with what is best for this country or doing what is needed.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Sounds like he hates his job

He basically seemed salty the owner would make him lose his unemployment money. He said basically fuck them he can find a bartending job for that amount anywhere. He isn't going back there.

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red13n posted...

don't have any faith on a new stimulus to actually happen.

It's just so overwhelming supported, and it easily would tip the election against Republicans. Like, they could lose the Senate and the Presidency without supporting it.

Democrats played it correctly because if Trump gives it, the Democrats get the credit. If he doesn't, Trump looks terrible.

The only way to save face is to find a viable alternative.

Democrats have the unemployment boost and state aid red lines.

Republicans have the liability protection red line. Something has to give somehow.

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I don't know how hard it is to understand that people are going to need more money. $1000 a month for 2 more months feels so obvious.

Hell in addition to helping those economically disadvantaged, we know there is a significant group of people that have funds but are holding onto them because there is no guarantee of money in the future. A ltitle more security and you give the economy an instant boost of consumer spending.1

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I honestly don't think it goes beyond Trump's desire to manufacture the illusion that the country is returning to "normalcy" in the hopes that it saves his GREATEST STOCK MARKET IN THE HISTORY OF MAN in the hopes that it saves his re-election.

Which, I mean, even putting aside (and you really shouldn't!) the very real human cost just... isn't likely to really work I think? It's the same deal as the fact that despite all his bluster Trump does not have the power to reopen the states. If people don't feel safe to return to normal then it won't matter. Cutting UE benefits and the like is just trying to put pressure on people to override their concerns for the glory of the DOW.

But zooming out even further to even more abstract level IIRC Q2 economic indicators are more predictive of election results because there's a lagging factor on people "feeling" those numbers and Q2 is already FUBAR so even if somehow, someway Q3 was a magical V-shaped recovery it probably wouldn't be felt by most normal people until after the election.

Maybe McConnell is concerned with enacting labor friendly policies on a more abstract GOP principle of "screw the poor" but Trump is the one running the show on this.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

As for the rest I understand the history of the country but I will say this hot take again: blaming voters for not voting in the USA is the biggest case of victim blaming I have ever seen. Culturally, educationally, and with our laws we make it brutally hard to get involved in our process.

I recall immediately after Bernie lost you saying differently, but Im glad you evolved on this issue.

Too many people I know are completely detached from our political process because everyone told them Biden was going to win a year ago, and they werent plugged in enough to even SEE the two week period where Bernie was way out ahead in the polls.

You wanna talk about how progressives dont show up? Unless they seek out alternative news, the public at large doesnt even know progressives are a possibility.

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