Board 8 > Smash Ultimate Fighting League (CPU battles): Would anyone be interested?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I feel like it's important to clarify up front that I'm talking about doing a league of CPU battles only! This isn't an attempt to start up an online league with B8ers!

Anyway, first of all, I need to give proper credit to @Master_Moltar because he did the Brawl Fighting League a decade or so ago during Brawl's heyday, and I really enjoyed following along with it. Not sure if anyone else remembers it, but he was posting stuff from the Crew Archives during the contest and it happened to be mentioned in one of them.

Moltar basically ran it as a pro wrestling spoof, where he would set up matches, have storylines, have titles, and all that, and it was based around Super Smash Bros. Brawl. He would pit two CPUs against each other to determine the winner of each arranged matchup, and you could even place bets on who you thought would win. It was a lot of fun, but I'm also the guy who used to enjoy doing CPU tournaments of fighting games for the heck of it.

I say all that to ask: If I were to do something like that, would anyone here be interested? I'm nowhere near as talented of a writer as Moltar, so I don't know if I'd bother trying to do storylines, but I'd just have randomized tournaments and leagues with fights between the various characters. I'd let people participating place bets and stuff, too. I remember Moltar would even give you uses for the points you won. You could "buy" a match of your choosing, or pick the stage for the next "live event" or pick a certain ruleset for it, and stuff like that. Perhaps Moltar could go into more detail on that aspect because I'm a little fuzzy on that part! It would give me an excuse to get back into Smash Ultimate, too.

I'm just bouncing ideas here (and I may not even do this if there's not really any interest anyway), but I was thinking of doing championship "weight classes" where you have a lightweight division featuring characters like Kirby, a heavyweight division featuring characters like Bowser, and those would be "traditional" 1-on-1 3 Stock matches, no items, tournament stages, all that. You would have a champion in each weight class, naturally.

Then we could also have a free for all championship league with everyone, and we could have 4-fighter (or more) matches with crazy rule sets, all stages, and things like that. We could have literal iron man matches where the characters are metal, and then we could have the pro wrestling version, where it's a 60 minute time marathon. I'm just thinking we could have a good blend of "serious" and "fun" types of matches.

We would also keep track of win-loss records that could be used to determine betting odds and who the #1 contenders are. We could have a big PPV type event once per month with title fights and maybe tournaments and stuff.

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I looked up a weight chart and divided them into three classes. Heavyweights are everyone whose weight is 100 or greater. Middleweight is everyone whose weight is 90-99. Lightweight is everyone below 90.

Heavyweights
Bowser
King K. Rool
Donkey Kong
King Dedede
Ganondorf
Charizard
Incineroar
Piranha Plant
Samus Aran
Dark Samus
Bowser Jr.
Terry Bogard
Wario
Ike
Ridley
Simon Belmont
Richter Belmont
Solid Snake
R.O.B.
Banjo-Kazooie
Link
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Mii Gunner
Ryu
Ken Masters
Mega Man
Mii Swordfighter
Cloud Strife

Middleweights
Mario
Dr. Mario
Corrin
Luigi
Shulk
Byleth
Pit
Dark Pit
Ivysaur
Wii Fit Trainer
Roy
Chrom
Robin
Pac-Man
Ness
Lucas
Mii Brawler
Inkling
Joker
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Wolf O'Donnell
Villager
Toon Link
Palutena
Marth
Lucina
Diddy Kong

Lightweights
Princess Peach
Princess Daisy
Young Link
Greninja
Isabelle
Little Mac
Sonic the Hedgehog
Duck Hunt
Princess Zelda
Falco Lombardi
Rosalina
Bayonetta
Meta Knight
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Pikachu
Mewtwo
Captain Olimar
Sheik
Fox McCloud
Mr. Game & Watch
Squirtle
Jigglypuff
Pichu

It's not an even distribution, but it puts 30 apiece in heavyweights and middleweights, and 22 in lightweights. I don't know if I should further subdivide it because maybe that's too many characters in one class.

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interest

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if you want more divisions, maybe you could do teams

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Oh yeah, tag teams could be good, too. The characters with clones would make for obvious tag teams.

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yes

i didnt read past the topic title yet but the answer is yes

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okay I think I successfully made tag teams out of everyone (although they aren't all perfect fits of course)

Samus/Dark Samus
Princess Peach/Princess Daisy
Sheik/Princess Zelda
Marth/Lucina
Roy/Chrom
Pit/Dark Pit
Ryu/Ken Masters
Simon Belmont/Richter Belmont
Mario/Dr. Mario
Donkey Kong/Diddy Kong
Fox McCloud/Falco Lombardi
Pikachu/Pichu
Ness/Lucas
Kirby/Jigglypuff
Young Link/Toon Link
Meta Knight/King Dedede
Mewtwo/Lucario
Mii Brawler/Gunner/Swordfighter
Bowser/Bowser Jr.
Luigi/Yoshi
Captain Falcon/Ganondorf
Little Mac/Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man/Pac-Man
Link/Cloud Strife
Solid Snake/Sonic the Hedgehog
Ice Climbers/Duck Hunt
Rosalina & Luma/Banjo-Kazooie
Villager/Isabelle
Mr. Game & Watch/R.O.B.
Corrin/Robin
Ike/Byleth
Zero Suit Samus/Bayonetta
Wario/Wolf O'Donnell
Greninja/Incineroar
Ridley/King K. Rool
Pokemon Trainer/Terry Bogard
Hero/Palutena
Joker/Shulk
Inkling/Piranha Plant
Olimar/Alph

I guess I can change up teams from time to time too

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BFL was awesome and I loved it. Definitely interested in this.

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I guess I could do different styles of fights, too. We could mix it up between stock, time, stamina, and all that.

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Honestly you might find some basic storylines present themselves as you go. Or just have users able to spend points or give suggestions to help with that.

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Yeah, I'm sure things will just naturally fall into place as things progress. I'm just not sure I'd be able to commit to writing intricate storylines and whatnot. I don't really fancy myself as a good dialogue writer either way, but we'll see!

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Eh who needs dialogue honestly.

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Still interested!

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oh man

yeah i'd be interested! I still have everything from the BFL including all the show write-ups, cards, results, storylines, character sheets, records, etc. so I'd be happy to give any advice.

people mostly used points to double/triple/quadruple their bets, but yep you're remembering correctly that there were also a few other things you could go like pick a stage for a show or book your own match.

plotting and writing everything (aka trying to weave a narrative while taking into account open-ended match results) was definitely the most time-consuming part. just betting and simulating the matches and making a game out of that is fine on its own.

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Did you do spreads or odds when it came to betting, or was it just "bet on this character or that character to win?" Did everyone just start off with certain pool of money or whatever?

I was thinking of having a renewable pool of points for every week's (or however frequently I do these) batch of matches, too.

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Definitely interested

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LeonhartFour posted...

Did you do spreads or odds when it came to betting, or was it just "bet on this character or that character to win?" Did everyone just start off with certain pool of money or whatever?

I was thinking of having a renewable pool of points for every week's (or however frequently I do these) batch of matches, too.

no spreads/odds just straight bets, everyone started at 0

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Hey Moltar what was the stip on that MANLY match with Falcon and Snake? I remember it was crazy.

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So was it, "get it right, win x amount of points" basically?

Were there penalties for getting it wrong?

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Maniac64 posted...

Hey Moltar what was the stip on that MANLY match with Falcon and Snake? I remember it was crazy.

I remember this one because I spent my points on it! I know they were giant and metal, but I'm not sure if there was anything else.

I remember Moltar had to put it on a stage with no pitfalls because it kept ending too fast due to the characters being too heavy.

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Pretty sure it was stamina.

I also know I liked spending points on show stuff.

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Maniac64 posted...

Hey Moltar what was the stip on that MANLY match with Falcon and Snake? I remember it was crazy.

haha the 'Manliest Man' match, got it right here for you - https://pastebin.com/55xhAnB5

LeonhartFour posted...

So was it, "get it right, win x amount of points" basically?

Were there penalties for getting it wrong?

yep, and only some matches had penalties

the #BigFightFeel and main event matches were usually worth more points, but you would get penalized if you picked wrong


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As amazing as I remember.

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We might have to have another manliest man match this time too

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I'd be interested

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Well, looks like there's enough interest to give it a shot at least!

I doubt I'll start anything until next week at the earliest, so if anyone has any ideas, suggestions, or whatever, I'm all ears.

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actually I'm realizing that Pokemon Trainer provides a bit of a conundrum for weight classes since all three of the Pokemon are in different weight classes and you can't only go with one

I'd hate to exclude Pokemon Trainer from it entirely, but it would also feel weird to give him a spot in every weight class so each Pokemon is represented. I guess I could average out their weights and do it that way.

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Would you be recording matches and uploading them?

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I love Duck Hunt

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KamikazePotato posted...

Would you be recording matches and uploading them?

Is there an easy way to stream and record from the Switch like with the PS4?

Otherwise, probably not! I'll try to summarize how the matches played out, but that's about it.

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I'm randomizing tournaments for all the weight classes, a tag team tournament, and a free for all tournament. Whoever wins those tournaments will be crowned the inaugural champions, so we can have champions as early as possible without just randomly awarding it to someone.

I'm trying to figure out if I should do 4-ways in the free for all tournament or just go crazy and go all the way to 8. It divides evenly either way.

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I'm very much into this idea.

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Another option for divisions would be to go by first appearance (like an original 12 division, a melee division, etc)

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Tom Bombadil posted...

Another option for divisions would be to go by first appearance (like an original 12 division, a melee division, etc)

Yeah, I guess that's an option, too. Hmm...How many characters per division would that give me?

Smash Bros. - 12
Melee - 14
Brawl - 16
Smash 4 - 21
Ultimate - 17 (for now)

If my math is right.

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I'd be interested! I love running CPU tournaments and stuff. Not that I've really done any of that publicly for other people, though. I wish more games let set it up. Especially ones that also have custom character creation.

Also mentioning doing it like a wrestling promotion reminds me of VGCW. I miss that show...

Trainer could just stick to free for all and tag.

Otherwise most fair would be making him Heavy imo. You can always be underweight and fight but you cant be over.

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Maniac64 posted...

Trainer could just stick to free for all and tag.

Otherwise most fair would be making him Heavy imo. You can always be underweight and fight but you cant be over.

Yeah, that's true. Good point.

But that means I have to redo all the weight class brackets I did! Well, the middleweight one is fine since nothing is changing there.

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Bump for more input

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Actually, here's a good question: How many matches should there be per week? With a roster this size, I want to try to find a good balance of getting a lot of the characters involved every week without getting the following along too overwhelmed.

Would 20 or 25 be too much? I can do 2-3 matches per day so I'm not dropping all the results at once and it'll keep the topic from being dead most of the time.

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Okay, I've randomized brackets for the tournaments, so you guys can get an idea of what we're looking at and a potential mock schedule.

Heavyweights: https://challonge.com/hczsusi2

Middleweights: https://challonge.com/ekpi8adq

Lightweights: https://challonge.com/m02df4xs

Tag Team: https://challonge.com/znodlozu

Free for All:

Jigglypuff
Little Mac
Mario
Mii Brawler

Ken Masters
Toon Link
Richter Belmont
Falco Lombardi

Kirby
Wii Fit Trainer
Robin
Inkling

Ness
Donkey Kong
Lucas
Diddy Kong

Zero Suit Samus
Villager
Roy
Princess Zelda

Young Link
Ice Climbers
Wario
Duck Hunt

Pac-Man
Greninja
Sheik
Joker

Solid Snake
Bayonetta
Bowser
R.O.B.

Lucina
Pit
Pichu
Sonic the Hedgehog

Ganondorf
King K. Rool
Olimar
Meta Knight

Fox McCloud
Mega Man
Mr. Game & Watch
Banjo-Kazooie

Chrom
Simon Belmont
Byleth
Ike

Shulk
Cloud Strife
Isabelle
Terry Bogard

Mii Swordfighter
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Ryu

King Dedede
Samus Aran
Rosalina & Luma
Princess Daisy

Link
Marth
Bowser Jr.
Palutena

Dark Samus
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Ridley

Pikachu
Lucario
Pokemon Trainer
Dark Pit

Mii Gunner
Captain Falcon
Hero
Corrin

Piranha Plant
Wolf O'Donnell
Princess Peach
Incineroar

So a week 1 schedule would look something like this:

Mega Man vs. Link
Dark Samus vs. Mii Gunner
Captain Falcon vs. Mii Swordfighter
Donkey Kong vs. Ike
Bowser vs. King Dedede

Chrom vs. Dr. Mario
Inkling vs. Diddy Kong
Ness vs. Pit
Roy vs. Robin
Marth vs. Lucario

Sonic vs. Zero Suit Samus
Game & Watch vs. Kirby
Little Mac vs. Duck Hunt
Daisy vs. Rosalina & Luma
Greninja vs. Zelda

Samus/Dark Samus vs. Ness/Lucas
Young Link/Toon Link vs. Roy/Chrom
Game & Watch/R.O.B. vs. Captain Falcon/Ganondorf
Rosalina & Luma/Banjo-Kazooie vs. Peach/Daisy
Hero/Palutena vs. Link/Cloud

Jigglypuff vs. Little Mac vs. Mario vs. Mii Brawler
Ken vs. Toon Link vs. Richter vs. Falco
Kirby vs. Wii Fit Trainer vs. Robin vs. Inkling
Ness vs. Donkey Kong vs. Lucas vs. Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus vs. Villager vs. Roy vs. Zelda

(By the way, I love that the randomizer happened to pair off two tag teams in a free for all match; that's potential storyline waiting to happen)

Anyway, would that seem like too much to predict, bet on, or keep track of every week? You don't have to predict everything though. You can do as much or as little as you want.

I was also thinking of doing an exacta/trifecta system for free for alls where you can get a points multiplier if you successfully predict the correct placement of 1st and 2nd, or all 4 characters, although there would be a penalty if you got them wrong. It would be a fun risk/reward system.

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I mean that is a lot of matches but since it's just a quick prediction I dont think it's to much, though 4 per group seems a bit better?

Once the tourneys are done you can make it smaller number per show as well.

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Also, I guess there's the issue of stages and items. Since free for all is just that, I don't think the stage selection matters. It's meant to be random and chaotic.

But for the more "serious" things, should we keep it to "Omega" stages and no items?

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Yeah I think so. Keep items for special matches and free for all.

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Should I have Final Smashes on?

I mean, it'd be appropriate to have finishers in something like this

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I'm playing some matches right now to see if there's anything else I need to think about. Part of me wonders if I shouldn't do time battles for tag teams because obviously one team is at a serious disadvantage once their partner is eliminated. Maybe 5 minutes, no more than 10.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Actually, here's a good question: How many matches should there be per week? With a roster this size, I want to try to find a good balance of getting a lot of the characters involved every week without getting the following along too overwhelmed.

Would 20 or 25 be too much? I can do 2-3 matches per day so I'm not dropping all the results at once and it'll keep the topic from being dead most of the time.

i was doing 5 for the weekly shows and the ppv cards would be larger, would make sense to do more and stagger the results with a the larger roster

LeonhartFour posted...

Should I have Final Smashes on?

I mean, it'd be appropriate to have finishers in something like this

yeah gotta have the signature moves

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Yeah, I might just do a lot of matches up front just so we can breeze through the tournaments and have champions, and then slow the pace down from there.

For Final Smashes, turn on the gauge or just have the Smash Ball at low probability?

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The Smash Ball is way more BS, which probably fits wrestling more

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Well, the gauge is one of those things that builds up as you take damage, which is also a pro wrestling staple, so I can see it both ways!

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...can you have both?

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